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7 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

Ok I'm sick of the bunny hate. I'll support Wilson's idea in changing the bunnies, and keeping them from eating pancakes. (That being said... )

For now, arin arin   steeldancer

Man, I don't have nothing against your bunnies, but about how they work... it's absolutely unbalanced, if they were balanced I would say nothing to you. And here not only me who said that he\she don't like bunnies, looks like you just focused on me. Are you part of Brotherhood or married with Roadwalker? Cause I don't see why you against me.

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5 minutes ago, Arinian said:

Man, I don't have nothing against your bunnies, but about how they work... it's absolutely unbalanced, if they were balanced I would say nothing to you. And here not only me who said that he\she don't like bunnies, looks like you just focused on me. Are you part of Brotherhood or married with Roadwalker? Cause I don't see why you against me.

Actually roadwalker is my... father? Mother? Idk. 

And I'm not a part of the brotherhood. I am 100% unaligned. 

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Just now, Steeldancer said:

Actually roadwalker is my... father? Mother? Idk. 

And I'm not a part of the brotherhood. I am 100% unaligned. 

So you admit that you voting for me cause I'm annoyed Roadwalker? I'm not tried to offence him I just didn't liked his proposition, I don't understand why he became so angry on me.

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4 minutes ago, Arinian said:

So you admit that you voting for me cause I'm annoyed Roadwalker? I'm not tried to offence him I just didn't liked his proposition, I don't understand why he became so angry on me.

No. I voted on you because you are the strongest anti-bunny. I have natural sympathies towards roadwalker, (especially after they made my profile pic), but that is not why I voted on you. I would rather not get involved in that mess, because it just feels nasty and not fun. And I'm playing to have fun. 

As for why I created the bunny rule, I might have mentioned this somewhere. For ideas, I look around and come up with ways to make it into a game or rule. Recently, my girlfriend got bunnies. I thought it would be fun to have bunnies. Bunnies eat things, so that became a mechanic. Bunnies also breed, which was the issue I was most concerned with (as it's why alias cancelled the original draft, for too many bunnies). I didn't take the brotherhood into account, or anything. I just was like... Bunnies. 

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1 minute ago, Steeldancer said:

No. I voted on you because you are the strongest anti-bunny. I have natural sympathies towards roadwalker, (especially after they made my profile pic), but that is not why I voted on you. I would rather not get involved in that mess, because it just feels nasty and not fun. And I'm playing to have fun. 

*Shrug* Okay. Looks like I can't convince you.

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6 minutes ago, Arinian said:

*Shrug* Okay. Looks like I can't convince you.

Instead of being "kill the bunnies," you could have been like "make the bunnies not eat anything." Which would just make them a self replicating item, which was kind of my purpose in designing them. I didn't think them eating items would be such a huge issue. 

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@Arinian I will confess to attempting to attack you last night, but it wasn't my idea. One of the factions suspected you of being the Gunsmith (not related to Road's PM to you, funny enough, although I can only assume he thought you were Gunsmith as well because of the items comment), and because Drake and I were the only active WorldSmiths at the time and turnover was approaching I put in the kill. I didn't have personal suspicions of you.

As for Arin vs SteelDancer, I think Arin is in the right. He's not mad that somebody put bunnies in the game, but that the bunnies that were put in the game broke the game, and the simplest way to unbreak them would be to remove them.

@Aonar Faileas I'm disheartened to think that you would legitimately suspect me of putting in a broken rule on purpose. When I wrote those rules my intent was that each ability could only be used once, so the player could only get 2 votes. I was just as surprised as you are when Drake told me that Sheep had ruled that that ability could be used in the way Drake just described. To further prove that I didn't break the rule on purpose, ask Drake: he realized the votes were broken without a bit of help from me.

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1 minute ago, Elenion said:

@Arinian I will confess to attempting to attack you last night, but it wasn't my idea. One of the factions suspected you of being the Gunsmith (not related to Road's PM to you, funny enough, although I can only assume he thought you were Gunsmith as well because of the items comment), and because Drake and I were the only active WorldSmiths at the time and turnover was approaching I put in the kill. I didn't have personal suspicions of you.

I'm NOT.

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I just submitted a rule to eliminate the bunny eating mechanic. They will also regurgitate any items they may have eaten. 

Arguing about the bunnies isn't fun. The spirit of the bunnies is not the reality of the bunnies. This should make it more in line with what I was imagining. 

Edited by Steeldancer
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How have you backed the village into a corner? By basically demanding nobody is boring, by having the amount of votes able to literally lynch anyone you chose, by claiming that the game is unbalanced and insisting we either restart it or change it completely. Also, because I'm really not happy about anyone having that much power. 

At first I thought a joint worldsmith and brohood win would be funny but it just gives all of the factionless no chance to win. I don't know exactly how many votes you have, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who thinks that having that many votes is absurd. If the ruling doesn't get undone, I guess I'll just hope enough people will join together to make sure the lynch is actually a decision by everyone instead of by a power couple of death. 

The intentions were likely not to create a broken role but it's being used like one. You two being both Worldsmiths and Brohood is too much. If you do end up manipulating the lynch, 

I'm fine with the removal of bunnies and I disprove of an Arinar vs Steeldancer lynch. It sounded like a reasonable rule to add before we realized how broken it was and I'd rather we just vote a rule on bunnies out of existence. 

 

Edit: this tone is needlessly snarky and I apologize. But seriously stop it and let people decide if they want to be boring. 

Edited by winter devotion
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17 minutes ago, winter devotion said:

How have you backed the village into a corner? By basically demanding nobody is boring, by having the amount of votes able to literally lynch anyone you chose, by claiming that the game is unbalanced and insisting we either restart it or change it completely. Also, because I'm really not happy about anyone having that much power. 

At first I thought a joint worldsmith and brohood win would be funny but it just gives all of the factionless no chance to win. I don't know exactly how many votes you have, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who thinks that having that many votes is absurd. If the ruling doesn't get undone, I guess I'll just hope enough people will join together to make sure the lynch is actually a decision by everyone instead of by a power couple of death. 

Drake have 96 votes, not sure that we can overpower that :P(+96 votes from Len :P). Problem that he needs to activate vote doubling on night turn and he needs 5 spheres to have 96 votes, 4 spheres for 48... Problem that they right now by revealing this ability they became target number one for all hungry for spheres and after they will use this vote ability many people undoubtedly will try to still Drake's or Len's spheres, and sooo in the end Len and Drake will lose all their spheres. I almost sure(with that level of activity) that Len or Drake need to use 3 spheres to control lynch, but after that they will be in constant danger of losing spheres, and 2 spheres it's only 12 votes so I think they can control 3 (3 spheres from len 24 votes to control 1 lynch, same from Drake for another lynch and then 12(2 spheres) votes from Len and Drake for third lynch) lynches in a row without recharging spheres.

Also they can't turn boring players in interesting, they can only keep interesting people from becoming boring :D, but still pretty funny powers isn't it?

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59 minutes ago, Arinian said:

Drake have 96 votes, not sure that we can overpower that :P(+96 votes from Len :P). Problem that he needs to activate vote doubling on night turn and he needs 5 spheres to have 96 votes, 4 spheres for 48... Problem that they right now by revealing this ability they became target number one for all hungry for spheres and after they will use this vote ability many people undoubtedly will try to still Drake's or Len's spheres, and sooo in the end Len and Drake will lose all their spheres. I almost sure(with that level of activity) that Len or Drake need to use 3 spheres to control lynch, but after that they will be in constant danger of losing spheres, and 2 spheres it's only 12 votes so I think they can control 3 (3 spheres from len 24 votes to control 1 lynch, same from Drake for another lynch and then 12(2 spheres) votes from Len and Drake for third lynch) lynches in a row without recharging spheres.

Also they can't turn boring players in interesting, they can only keep interesting people from becoming boring :D, but still pretty funny powers isn't it?

Well keep people from being boring, whatever, same thing. 

I'll take my votes off if I'm not being voted on in Orange at all.

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2 hours ago, winter devotion said:

How have you backed the village into a corner? By basically demanding nobody is boring, by having the amount of votes able to literally lynch anyone you chose, by claiming that the game is unbalanced and insisting we either restart it or change it completely. Also, because I'm really not happy about anyone having that much power. 

At first I thought a joint worldsmith and brohood win would be funny but it just gives all of the factionless no chance to win. I don't know exactly how many votes you have, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who thinks that having that many votes is absurd. If the ruling doesn't get undone, I guess I'll just hope enough people will join together to make sure the lynch is actually a decision by everyone instead of by a power couple of death. 

The intentions were likely not to create a broken role but it's being used like one. You two being both Worldsmiths and Brohood is too much. If you do end up manipulating the lynch, 

I'm fine with the removal of bunnies and I disprove of an Arinar vs Steeldancer lynch. It sounded like a reasonable rule to add before we realized how broken it was and I'd rather we just vote a rule on bunnies out of existence. 

 

Edit: this tone is needlessly snarky and I apologize. But seriously stop it and let people decide if they want to be boring. 

I see.

Before I address this, do please let me know if I have correctly summarized your concerns as such:

1. You think my role is vastly too powerful.

2. Furthermore you believe I am in some way seeking to abuse that power.

3. You don't like the alliance between the Worldsmiths and the Brotherhood of Peace.

4. You want to be boring and you don't appreciate being made un-boring.

 

Is this an accurate representation of your position?

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21 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

I see.

Before I address this, do please let me know if I have correctly summarized your concerns as such:

1. You think my role is vastly too powerful.

2. Furthermore you believe I am in some way seeking to abuse that power.

3. You don't like the alliance between the Worldsmiths and the Brotherhood of Peace.

4. You want to be boring and you don't appreciate being made un-boring.

 

Is this an accurate representation of your position?

1. Yes.

2. Not seeking as much as flat out doing so. 

3. Yes. 

4. Not that I want to, I'd just rather have control it myself.

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6 minutes ago, winter devotion said:

1. Yes.

2. Not seeking as much as flat out doing so. 

3. Yes. 

4. Not that I want to, I'd just rather have control it myself.

Very well. Lets try again then.

1. You think my role is vastly too powerful.

2. Furthermore you believe I have abused this power, and/or am in the process of doing so.

3. You don't like the alliance between the Worldsmiths and the Brotherhood of Peace.

4. You want to have the choice to be boring or not.

Those are your main points. I'm not missing anything. Right?

 

Imma go for a sec but I'll address these shortly if you confirm that this is an accurate summation of your concerns.

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Ok i hope the bunnies are significantly less threatening now. In order to make them work like I wanted, a item pass action will need to be enacted. 

I will note that suddenly this just became a lot less fun. I really dislike toxicity. 

I was originally planning to create a rule that would be a pancake lottery, but I think given the state of things making the bunnies not eat things is better. If anyone has an issue with them still, take a good long stare at their twitching noses and decide you still hate them. 

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Okay, let's be clear - there will not be a game wipe or restart.  That is not going to happen.

Wrt "any two of the following thing", I appear to have interpreted it differently to Wilson and Aonar and told the DMs that they may use that to do the same thing.  I'm still not making any clear statements on whether what Drake has done is going to be allowed.

And, bunny names.  There are exactly 2 valid bunny names and they are Foo Foo and The Rabbit of Caerbanog.

EDIT:  Another thing.  Elementalists - the elements in use are the Wu Xing classical elements and all the implications that they have.  Keep that in mind.

Edited by AliasSheep
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1 hour ago, Drake Marshall said:

Very well. Lets try again then.

1. You think my role is vastly too powerful.

2. Furthermore you believe I have abused this power, and/or am in the process of doing so.

3. You don't like the alliance between the Worldsmiths and the Brotherhood of Peace.

4. You want to have the choice to be boring or not.

Those are your main points. I'm not missing anything. Right?

 

Imma go for a sec but I'll address these shortly if you confirm that this is an accurate summation of your concerns.

Yeah. 

I was kind of overreacting a bit. Sorry. 

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51 minutes ago, AliasSheep said:

Okay, let's be clear - there will not be a game wipe or restart.  That is not going to happen.

Wrt "any two of the following thing", I appear to have interpreted it differently to Wilson and Aonar and told the DMs that they may use that to do the same thing.  I'm still not making any clear statements on whether what Drake has done is going to be allowed.

And, bunny names.  There are exactly 2 valid bunny names and they are Foo Foo and The Rabbit of Caerbanog.

EDIT:  Another thing.  Elementalists - the elements in use are the Wu Xing classical elements and all the implications that they have.  Keep that in mind.

I call Foo foo then. 

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Honestly, I think everyone is overreacting over Len and Drake's suggestions. Also, I don't think that Drake is abusing his powers at all.

That being said, I definitely don't think that this game needs to be remodeled/wiped. This is not meant to be a structured game - its meant to be unstructured. Also, the rules are definitely fixable. They do need to be fixed, though.

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So it seems like we're all in agreement about a few things:

-The game needs a fix but not a total wipe

-Bunny rule definitely needs to be changed or removed

-96 votes is just a wee bit much for a single player to command

But now we're at another conundrum: the Brotherhood and the WorldSmiths now know the exact size and member list of the other faction. Ideas on how to fix that?

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11 minutes ago, Elenion said:

So it seems like we're all in agreement about a few things:

-The game needs a fix but not a total wipe

-Bunny rule definitely needs to be changed or removed

-96 votes is just a wee bit much for a single player to command

But now we're at another conundrum: the Brotherhood and the WorldSmiths now know the exact size and member list of the other faction. Ideas on how to fix that?

Is anybody paying attention? I put in a rule to change the bunnies. They shall not be removed, but they will no longer eat items. 

Furthermore, if we are trying to fix things, what are we even trying to accomplish? This is like "build your own" mode. As I said earlier, if we remove a few rules, I would suggest perhaps a just do a set amount of cycles of "building" and then call it a game, and everybody wins. Yes, even you ornstein. As such, I would want to see more experimental rules and mechanics. Perhaps these rules could have a set life time? 

Edited by Steeldancer
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2 hours ago, winter devotion said:

Yeah. 

I was kind of overreacting a bit. Sorry. 

Your fine. Now, onward:

3 hours ago, Drake Marshall said:

1. You think my role is vastly too powerful.

2. Furthermore you believe I have abused this power, and/or am in the process of doing so.

3. You don't like the alliance between the Worldsmiths and the Brotherhood of Peace.

4. You want to have the choice to be boring or not.

1. I agree that my role is vastly too powerful. That's why I'm pursuing a means to alter the game, instead of trying to play the game straight. I could have kept the whole worldsmith-brotherhood thing a secret to everybody, and used my voting powers to direct the lynch on my vendettas. Or I could have tried to force a rule that would have given me even more unfair advantage. But none of this would be fun for anybody involved.

That said, my role may or may not have the same capabilities as I originally was lead to believe. Sheep had certainly confirmed that I could summon 4 NPC mobs in a night. But they are now saying that the doubling might not stack the way I would have guessed.

2. Please elaborate on this. When and how have I abused any power?

3. I don't either. That's why I'm trying to alter the game in the first place. I suspect that your issue with me is somewhat misdirected, because we are trying to address the exact same problems. We can discuss what the best way to do that is, but seriously, we all agree on what issues need fixing. All I'm trying to do is call a vote where everyone is free to choose what course of action we want to take to fix things.

4. Very well then. Winter, you may be boring if you so wish, or vote on yourself otherwise. In any case, your current votes on me will now no longer count, if my read of the rules is accurate.

 

Okay. Does that make some sense?

What I am hearing is that the general sentiment is most nearly to take option 7.

Now, frankly, if that is so obviously the sentiment, I don't know why anybody takes issue with there just being a vote on the options, since 7 will obviously win.

That said, I think option 7 is a good option.

Can we discuss some particulars of how this would proceed?

 

I propose that the normal happenings of the game should be suspended while we reconsider each rule.

During this time, for ease of communication, how about we just give all the players a doc to discuss things in?

The game shall remain suspended for the duration of one day cycle. After this time, the next cycle shall commence at whatever time is most convenient for Sheep.

 

For each rule, a player may do one of several things.

Vote to leave the rule untouched and in-game.

Vote to repeal the rule completely.

Propose an amendment to the rule.

Vote for a proposed amendment.

Vote against a proposed amendment.

 

For the sake of organization, I propose that a vote tally and listing of proposed amendments all be kept in an easy-to-read format at the very top of the doc, so that it won't be unnecessarily painful for Sheep to take a tally for what players have decided.

 

A measure is passed if it gets plurality by the end of the allotted time (I don't want this to be able to drag on indefinitely, hence why I don't think we should do it by majority). However, since players are able to vote against a measure as well as for it, there isn't any danger of a rule passing without popular support.

 

Also, we could consider calling a vote to randomly reassign membership to each faction, and possibly role distribution. There are both good reasons for and against that course of action, but I'll save them for when we are actually voting on this maybe.

 

Does this seem like a reasonable action plan?

 

Alternatively, we could let the game proceed as normal.

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5 hours ago, Drake Marshall said:

I propose that the normal happenings of the game should be suspended while we reconsider each rule.

During this time, for ease of communication, how about we just give all the players a doc to discuss things in?

The game shall remain suspended for the duration of one day cycle. After this time, the next cycle shall commence at whatever time is most convenient for Sheep.

 

For each rule, a player may do one of several things.

Vote to leave the rule untouched and in-game.

Vote to repeal the rule completely.

Propose an amendment to the rule.

Vote for a proposed amendment.

Vote against a proposed amendment.

 

For the sake of organization, I propose that a vote tally and listing of proposed amendments all be kept in an easy-to-read format at the very top of the doc, so that it won't be unnecessarily painful for Sheep to take a tally for what players have decided.

 

A measure is passed if it gets plurality by the end of the allotted time (I don't want this to be able to drag on indefinitely, hence why I don't think we should do it by majority). However, since players are able to vote against a measure as well as for it, there isn't any danger of a rule passing without popular support.

 

Also, we could consider calling a vote to randomly reassign membership to each faction, and possibly role distribution. There are both good reasons for and against that course of action, but I'll save them for when we are actually voting on this maybe.

 

Does this seem like a reasonable action plan?l

It sounds reasonable to me, but I'd suggest it as a rule for tonight, even if you have a way to bypass the normal process. Forcing it with secretkeeper is just going to leave people very unhappy (unless you get a majority of people saying 'let's do this' before turnover).

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