Hoid's Breath Evidence

[AbsentKeeper]

So I was browsing WoB's and I found one that I haven't ever seen refrenced on the Shard:

Quote

• QUESTION

  I asked if someone who had a lot of Breath would have it weaken collectively, in the same way that the single Breaths of children are more vibrant than others and move one slightly closer to a Heightening, then weaken as they grow older (and contribute slightly less towards a Heightening).

  BRANDON SANDERSON

  He said that it wouldn't be noticeable once you accumulate enough Breath and, for example, Hoid wouldn't find himself suddenly losing perfect pitch as a function of time.

Question 15

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1179 

I've seen lots of people offhandedly say that we suspect that Hoid has breaths, but we aren't sure. I think we can count this as a fact now though, with that example in the context of the question.

Edit: Slightly related, I found this other one that seems to indicate that Awakening has been used off Nalthis.

Quote

JASON

Can one give the Command, “divide and do thing X”, for Awakening? How many Breaths would it take to do something like a straw mannequin, how small could you get the pieces, how would you retrieve the Breath?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Uhm, Jason, I’m afraid I would have to pull out my notes. I mean I wrote that book a few- 2006, and so we’re nine years away from me writing that magic system. I, I have it all in the notes, but I can’t off the top of my head rattle it off for you. People use Awakening so infrequently now in the cosmere, it’s just on the one planet with the occasional worldhopper, that I just go to my notes and get it out when I need it.

 

Edited August 20, 2017 by Cowmanthethird

[Calderis]

In WoR, when tuning his instrument for the story of Fleet, Hoid as Wit says offhandedly "this is all so much easier with Perfect Pitch" 

We don't need a WoB. We have an in book source He has no reason to lie when speaking in the presence of someone who has no ability to understand what he's referring to. 

[Fatling]

I'm trying to remember if there are any references to colors brightening around him. In the Warbreaker Ars Arcanum it says you have to have at least 200 breaths to reach perfect pitch, and having that many breaths should be fairly visible. It says you can't see less than 30 without the first heightening, and that it would be difficult to discern the specific number of breaths a person would have, but it should at least be noticeable. Or do people with lots of breaths only bend light on Nalthis?

[Calderis]

@Fatling there's a WoB I'm trying to find that basically says Hoid is good at suppressing the ways his investiture manifests. 

I can't remember the wording and it's frustrating. 

But yeah, I think that He should have an aura and he's hiding it somehow. 

[+Extesian]

39 minutes ago, Fatling said:

I'm trying to remember if there are any references to colors brightening around him. In the Warbreaker Ars Arcanum it says you have to have at least 200 breaths to reach perfect pitch, and having that many breaths should be fairly visible. It says you can't see less than 30 without the first heightening, and that it would be difficult to discern the specific number of breaths a person would have, but it should at least be noticeable. Or do people with lots of breaths only bend light on Nalthis?

Hoid can hide his investiture, coz he's a realmatic ninja. @Calderis the magic word on that one is suppress

Quote

Q: Why is Hoid’s color aura from his Breaths not noticed by anyone on Roshar? Are the characters just not used to noticing that sort of thing, or does he not have one?
 
A: There are a mixture of reasons. Not the least is Hoid's control over investiture. 
 
Q: Would someone with breath be able to notice his aura on Roshar? E.g. Vasher?
 
A: Various methods of detecting investiture would still work, depending on how good a job Hoid is doing of suppressing his.

 

Edited August 20, 2017 by Extesian

[Calderis]

@Extesian theoryland makes me angry I tried Hoid, Hoid's, and Hoid's in combination with breath, breaths, color, aura, auras, surpresses, surpressing, and suppressed. I forgot "suppress" 

And apparently it doesn't like apostrophes. 

[+Extesian]

3 minutes ago, Calderis said:

@Extesian theoryland makes me angry I tried Hoid, Hoid's, and Hoid's in combination with breath, breaths, color, aura, auras, surpresses, surpressing, and suppressed. I forgot "suppress" 

And apparently it doesn't like apostrophes. 

It was Pagerunner's reddit connection, which is easy coz you can search for parts of words. Theoryland's search function sucks though, yeah. Always all about the right key word, which is the thing I tend to remember well. 

[Calderis]

4 minutes ago, Extesian said:

It was Pagerunner's reddit connection, which is easy coz you can search for parts of words. Theoryland's search function sucks though, yeah. Always all about the right key word, which is the thing I tend to remember well. 

Didn't even think to check Pagerunners. Bah. 

[AbsentKeeper]

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

In WoR, when tuning his instrument for the story of Fleet, Hoid as Wit says offhandedly "this is all so much easier with Perfect Pitch" 

We don't need a WoB. We have an in book source He has no reason to lie when speaking in the presence of someone who has no ability to understand what he's referring to. 

I always figured that's why people always say we're almost certain.

Perfect pitch is a thing that people can be born with, or he could have aquired it another way.

Regardless, I never thought that he didn't have Breath, but I had seen @Extesian's WoB about his aura before and just didn't make the connection. All I was saying is that people can take the fact that he has breaths as a given now.

Otherwise, any thoughts on the other one that seems to suggest that we've seen someone awaken offworld?

[Fatling]

Can Vasher suppress his investiture too? I mean, we don't know how much breath he has on Roshar, but I'm just curious if we know or not

[AbsentKeeper]

3 hours ago, Fatling said:

Can Vasher suppress his investiture too? I mean, we don't know how much breath he has on Roshar, but I'm just curious if we know or not

He suppresses his Divine Breath throughout the entirety of Warbreaker, I would assume that the same skill would work just as well with regular Breaths.

Edit: This makes me wonder if suppressing your Investiture is a skill anyone can learn, or if its granted by Breath, and it just becomes instinctive at a heightening we haven't learned about yet.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Cowmanthethird

[Yata]

Vasher gives off a Biochromatic Aura too (by WoB) in both the books. Simply the mix of color's choice, Color's envirorment and Rosharan untrained eyes made this think unnoticed.

[AbsentKeeper]

7 minutes ago, Yata said:

Vasher gives off a Biochromatic Aura too (by WoB) in both the books. Simply the mix of color's choice, Color's envirorment and Rosharan untrained eyes made this think unnoticed.

I saw you say something similar in another thread on the topic, can you cite this WoB please? The only one in the other thread talks specifically about suppressing investiture, and everything else was just speculation.

Edit: the other thread I was talking about, for reference.

 

Edited August 20, 2017 by Cowmanthethird

[Yata]

@Cowmanthethird Unluckly I am unable to find that WoB. I tried both on Theoryland and on the Reddit wob List without too success (also if usually I had an hard time to find WoB on Theoryland)

[Weltall]

@Cowmanthethird Haha, that's one of mine. As mentioned we already knew Hoid had Breath from his comments to Kaladin but extra evidence certainly never hurts anything. I was mostly interested in working out whether there was a BioChroma equivalent to 'hemalurgic decay' for some ideas I was mulling at the time.

Now to start working out what I'm going to ask him at the Oathbringer signing...

[AbsentKeeper]

On 8/22/2017 at 5:19 PM, Weltall said:

@Cowmanthethird Haha, that's one of mine. As mentioned we already knew Hoid had Breath from his comments to Kaladin but extra evidence certainly never hurts anything. I was mostly interested in working out whether there was a BioChroma equivalent to 'hemalurgic decay' for some ideas I was mulling at the time.

Now to start working out what I'm going to ask him at the Oathbringer signing...

Haha it was a good question. I wish I could make it to the Oathbringer release, all my questions would probably be RAFOed though.

Edit: Also, I'll take a WoB any day over the word of a king's Wit! 

Edited August 26, 2017 by Cowmanthethird

[17th Splinter]

Couldn't the Rosharans inability or difficulty to see breath auras be because they aren't as invested? In warbreaker everyone is born with a very large amount of breath right? On Roshar however most people would be little more than drabs. So aura suppression plus largely uninvested people equals no visible aura

[AbsentKeeper]

18 minutes ago, 17th Splinter said:

Couldn't the Rosharans inability or difficulty to see breath auras be because they aren't as invested? In warbreaker everyone is born with a very large amount of breath right? On Roshar however most people would be little more than drabs. So aura suppression plus largely uninvested people equals no visible aura

Only the Returned naturally have a large amount of breath, though 'normal' people on Nalthis are more invested than the average human. A drab is significantly less than the average person though, and the people on Roshar are naturally healthier because they are somewhat invested by the highstorm, making them more invested than average as well, so I do not think this is it.

Quote

QUESTION

In the last panel we talked a lot about people from different planets using magic systems on other planets, one of the things I’ve been thinking about, we’ve been thinking about, talking about Breath, and people being born with Breath, is that something specific to Nalthis or do people on other planets have Breaths as well?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Good question and that is a Nalthian thing. Now, everyone in the Cosmere to an extent has Investiture, the Nalthian Breath is part of what everyone has and then a little extra, plus the ability to share it around. So a person who gives up their Breath on Nalthis is actually going below what a normal person has. But a normal person on Nalthis has more than somebody - so if you were for instance to pick a world like Sixth of the Dusk, where there’s not a Shard in residence, and you compared them to a Nalthian, Nalthian has an Investiture advantage over them. When they’ve given up their Breath, they have an Investiture disadvantage.

QUESTION

So we’re not Drabs?

BRANDON SANDERSON

So we’re not Drabs. That’s exactly it. We’re not Drabs.

Have an upvote anyway though, because it was a good thought.

Edited August 26, 2017 by Cowmanthethird

[Killik]

I saw some time ago a thread on Hoid's Lerasium bead and whether or not he has used it as of WoR.  I don't recall if there was official word on this.  But could he be using a copper cloud to hide his investiture?

[Lunu’anaki]

On 8/20/2017 at 3:00 AM, AbsentKeeper said:

He suppresses his Divine Breath throughout the entirety of Warbreaker, I would assume that the same skill would work just as well with regular Breaths.

Edit: This makes me wonder if suppressing your Investiture is a skill anyone can learn, or if its granted by Breath, and it just becomes instinctive at a heightening we haven't learned about yet.

We know that he knew how to suppress his Divine Breath in Warbreaker... but there was a viewpoint chapter where Vasher was watching Vivenna train that specifically mentions that he was a dean at that moment.

 

to me that gives us two clues:

1. He does not know how to suppress normal breath

2. He does not gain the abilities of a Divine Breath while suppressing his.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Lunu’anaki

[Weltall]

You do realize this topic was two years old, right?

But since the topic's been revived, might as well point out that we know from both observation and WoB that it's possible to have a lot of Breath and suppress the visible signs of it while still getting the passive benefits of having them and being able to use them for Awakening. Vasher's lifesense works to detect Kaladin in WoR even though he doesn't have a visible aura and Hoid and Vivenna both have no aura but perform Awakenings in OB.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Weltall

[Showman]

This thread is pretty old. But one more Warbreaker quote: Hoid says that "agelessness is a gift for all who reach the fifth heightening."

I'm not sure (and am not finished with Warbreaker yet), but is Hoid ageless?

[Aon Tia]

It sure looks like it. Besides I think OB epilogue clearly establishes that Hoid has awakening. 

[Weltall]

5 hours ago, Showman said:

I'm not sure (and am not finished with Warbreaker yet), but is Hoid ageless?

Hoid is immortal but it's not because of the Fifth Heightening. The entire system of BioChroma didn't even exist when he was born (nor did pretty much any Cosmere magics we've seen) and we know he was aging oddly even before he became actually immortal.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Weltall

[Showman]

33 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Hoid is immortal but it's not because of the Fifth Heightening. The entire system of BioChroma didn't even exist when he was born (nor did pretty much any Cosmere magics we've seen) and we know he was aging oddly even before he became actually immortal.

Yeah, a little after I posted, I realized that it was kinda a dumb question. Thanks anyway.