DoctorWh0m

How would one go about killing a Compounding Spinner? (Aside from atium)

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I have a few theories on this front, but the floor is open. The problem with any theories made, of course, is that we know so little about Spinning.

First, and least interesting, is simply somehow managing to get them in a situation with no variables, allowing them to be killed. This of course assumes that they would not be lucky enough to avoid the situation.

Second, somehow manage to use a combination of a Leecher and a Lurcher (sounds like a bad children's book) to remove their metal and metalminds. Once again though, we fall into the trap of them simply being lucky enough to avoid this scenario in the first place.

Third, highly speculative, is to do with aluminium. As far as I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), an Aluminium Gnat, far from having no effect whatsoever as is said in-universe, has the ability to completely negate all Investiture in the Misting's body. If this extends as far as Feruchemy, a Purger, as I would call them if I was right, would be able to walk straight up to the Spinner, completely ignoring their luck, and kill them. Perhaps, like copper, it might create a cloud with lessened effects on other people, but I'm just speculating now.

Anywho, what think?

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As I understand it, Aluminium Gnats can only clean unwanted investitures from themselves. Now a Soulbearer can pour Investiture charges into the Spinner's Chromiumminds, destroying the stored Fortune, but again the spinner might be lucky enough to avoid them.

Just sight them in a city and then nuke the city immediately. (They might be able to luckily find a worldhopper, so make sure you mind-nuke Shadesmar simultaneously). Problem solved. ;)

Edited by Kadrok
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Kadrok, I think his idea is that a Spinner's luck would be an external force on his environment. So people would be affected, unless they could purge investiture, like an aluminum misting. So the misting is still only affecting its self, but that creates a hole in the Spinner's lucky "aura".

We need a LOT more to decide what Spinners are capable of (I'm hoping it's revealed to be an unbiased aura of increased/decreased probability), but I'm really keen on this idea. Very "right tool for the job," which Brandon is fond of.

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I would hire another C spinner to kill him, that way he wouldn't have any more of an advantage of evading death than a regular guy.

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You cant tap or store while your sleeping so you should be able to kill him while he is getting some zzzz.

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You cant tap or store while your sleeping so you should be able to kill him while he is getting some zzzz.

If you can't tap, how did TLR keep from dying of old-

 

Oh.

 

Duh.

 

He stored awakeness so he never had to sleep. That's an interesting abuse of compounding that I hadn't thought of.

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[spoilers for Steelheart] 

 

There's a scene where Megan kills Fortuity (Who essentially has incredibly good luck, similar to a Chromium compounder) because she "pins" him. She fires a gun on either side of him, while he's jumping, so he can't avoid both bullets, killing him. Whether a compounding Spinner's luck would work the same way or would be even more powerful (one of the guns jamming, the bullet dry firing, the bullets glancing off an accessory, etc.) I cannot say. 

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I just re-read Steelheart, and was thinking the same thing.But once again, we run into the issue of not knowing how Spinning works at all, in in any way whatsoever. (Nice username/pic, btw)

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You cant tap or store while your sleeping so you should be able to kill him while he is getting some zzzz.

 

Do you have a WoB on this? You can certainly store wakefulness while sleeping, and I don't see why you wouldn't be capable of instinctively tapping metalminds when you become a Feruchemical savant (if that's a thing?). Allomancers instinctively burn pewter. Sazed barely understands Feruchemy, anyways, so when he says bronzeminds are the only things you can store into, I find it questionable. (Also, he said storing and not tapping.)

Edited by Moogle
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If you can't tap, how did TLR keep from dying of old-

Oh.

Duh.

He stored awakeness so he never had to sleep. That's an interesting abuse of compounding that I hadn't thought of.

since his compounding technically used Allomancy as the delivery mechanism, and Vin burnt pewter while asleep, it's also possible that he was just burning the atium instinctually. Either that, or he modified his body during his Ascention to not need sleep. The wakefulness compounding seems pretty likely though.
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I remember from a quote that you most likely cant store anything except wakefulness while your sleeping, as for tapping attributes, that's a different matter, I can totally understand the body unconsciously burning pewter or tapping gold to preserve itself, but tapping luck while your sleeping seems a bit of a stretch.

Edited by Leonardus
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However TLR did his age trick it would need to be something that Marsh could do as well. This suggests it is not a case of TLR modifying his body so he doesn't need sleep.

My money is on the theory that it is possible to tap youth while unconscious if not tapping it would kill you.

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I think it's important to remember that when Compounding, what you're essentially doing is using Feruchemy to create a new Allomantic metal, and then burning that.

All the rules of Allomancy still apply, rather than the Feruchemical ones.  Much as you can burn Pewter while you're sleeping, because your body knows it needs it, I suspect the same will be true for any Allomantic metals you're dependent on.  Especially if you become a Savant, as the Lord Ruler would have (A compounded Atium savant.  Probably among others).  

 

Remember that Spook's Tin burned throughout the night, even when he slept.  

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I think it's important to remember that when Compounding, what you're essentially doing is using Feruchemy to create a new Allomantic metal, and then burning that.

All the rules of Allomancy still apply, rather than the Feruchemical ones.  Much as you can burn Pewter while you're sleeping, because your body knows it needs it, I suspect the same will be true for any Allomantic metals you're dependent on.  Especially if you become a Savant, as the Lord Ruler would have (A compounded Atium savant.  Probably among others).  

 

Remember that Spook's Tin burned throughout the night, even when he slept.  

This makes sense, but it wouldn't work for atium, atium burns far too fast. A large bead only lasts 2 minutes so you couldn't really swallow more than enough for an hour or two's nap at most and swallowing that much would not be fun. You would also negate most of the advantage of compounding in doing so as you would be getting back far more age than you needed and not storing the excess anywhere.

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You would also negate most of the advantage of compounding in doing so as you would be getting back far more age than you needed and not storing the excess anywhere.

 

This brings up an important question: what if TLR tapped so much age that he reduced his age to before he ever existed? Inquiring minds want to know!

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I think it's important to remember that when Compounding, what you're essentially doing is using Feruchemy to create a new Allomantic metal, and then burning that.

All the rules of Allomancy still apply, rather than the Feruchemical ones.  Much as you can burn Pewter while you're sleeping, because your body knows it needs it, I suspect the same will be true for any Allomantic metals you're dependent on.  Especially if you become a Savant, as the Lord Ruler would have (A compounded Atium savant.  Probably among others).  

 

Remember that Spook's Tin burned throughout the night, even when he slept.  

 

Yes, when Compounding you're creating a new metal and burning it, but it's not Compounding until you store what you burned into another bit of metal and then burned that as well.

 

I disagree that the Allomantic rules apply rather than the Feruchemical, if we use TLR as an example, he had to continually tap age from his metalminds to stay young. He just used Allomancy to Compound and increase what he had stored in his metalminds, but it was Feruchemy he used to stay young. Therefore I would say it's the Feruchemical rules that apply while asleep.

 

With Compounders tapping so much and so often from their metal minds it makes sense to me that the body would come to think of that as it's natural state and try to maintain it by tapping your metalminds while asleep to maintain its homeostasis. Much the same as an Allomancer who continually flares their metals can change their bodys default settings.  

Edited by Duskshard
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This is easy, you clearly borrow Rand. Otherwise, you might want to try a nicrosil misting or check moaning them with an unwinnable situation. The luck probably would not affect someone or something with a very high investiture, so send Vasher and Nightblood?

Edited by Cromptj
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This makes sense, but it wouldn't work for atium, atium burns far too fast. A large bead only lasts 2 minutes so you couldn't really swallow more than enough for an hour or two's nap at most and swallowing that much would not be fun. You would also negate most of the advantage of compounding in doing so as you would be getting back far more age than you needed and not storing the excess anywhere.

Actually, this brings up an interesting point. Has it ever been confirmed that the Feruchemical charge burns at the same rate as the Allomantic one for the same metal would?

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Actually, this brings up an interesting point. Has it ever been confirmed that the Feruchemical charge burns at the same rate as the Allomantic one for the same metal would?

To my knowledge it has never been asked before.

 

Here's my 2 cents on it though:

I strongly suspect that it does burn at the same rate because I'm fairly certain we do have specific mention of burning feruchemical storages as giving a "burst" or power that the compounders then store the excess of in their metalminds. If the metalminds burned slower than their plain allomantic metal counterparts I think it would be described differently.

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Well. Who in any Universe is just as lucky -- if not luckier -- than a Chromium Compounder?

Matrim Cauthon, of course! Why, he has the Dark One's own luck!

But finding someone in the Cosmere Universe who could tackle uber-luck would be pretty difficult.

I'm sure Hoid would have a trick or two.

What about an Awakened Sword with the Command, "Steal Investiture". If that's an applicable command, just point the blade at the Spinner, and drain his luck away!

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taking an idea from Stealheart you can always checkmate them like the Reckoners did with Fortuity

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Wait until they've burnt it all off and hope they don't escape.

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Option 1) Try and find another Spinner.

 

Option 2) Try and Checkmate them.

 

Option 3) Pray.

 

On a somewhat related note, can you imagine if The Lord Ruler had known about Chromium? Then he would been both insanely lucky, and able to destroy Allomantic reserves, on top of everything else.

Edited by Vizier
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the compariston with mat cauthon is a good one, and maybe the best example we can have as for how a spinner works.

If that's the case, then killing one isn't as difficult as it may appear. while every archer trying to kill him from afar would have missed, any poisoned food you tried to give him would have been eaten by someone else, and so on, but one hundred soldiers surrounding him would definitely kill him. his luck don't extend as far as all his opponents in melee missing.

so, just overwhel them with enough power that you can say "no one could survive that".

but don't say that out loud, cause foortune is blind, but has perfect hearing.

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On a somewhat related note, can you imagine if The Lord Ruler had known about Chromium? Then he would been both insanely lucky, and able to destroy Allomantic reserves, on top of everything else.

he knew dindt wan truin too have luck
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