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Just now, randuir said:

I'm not going to post as much about brunt as I have about the others, as roughly 90% of her posts where RP/trolling or otherwise playing around. 'Chaotic Neutral' indeed. However, @Burnt Spaghetti, could you maybe explain a bit more how your percentage system works(I seem to remember you saying at some point during an earlier game that there's a system behind it)? That way I can get a better idea exactly what your list during C2 meant. 

Basically i give people percentages, usually based off gut, sometimes influenced by facts i may have remembered.

50% is a neutral percentage. Basically means i dunno at all. Either paid no attention, or they are too confusing. Above 50% means im suspicious of them. Perhaps only slightly. 50-60% usually is a not sure but maybe. Above 60%, i typically have a good reason for playing them there. So 50-40% is i slightly trust. Below 40,  ill have a reason. So 40-60% is typically only gut.

I might redo that list anyways. So gimme a min and ill do a new one, now that ive had a chance to pm more people and get to know them a bit better.

 

Mm. Also i understand that im probably a frustrating player to read, but honestly, thats my playstyle.  I aim to be hard to read, regardless of alignment. And also im not really fond of talking in thread much. Just. Not my kinda thing. As ive mentioned previously, i live in pms. Oh also. Be surprised if i ever vote. I typically dont vote for someone unless i truly believe theyre worth killing. With is rare. I kinda usually only vote late game. Also i just hate leading lynches. Some of the people who have gmed me can confirm that ive hd serious anxiety over pushing for a lynch heh. (Seriously. Like. Takes me sometimes over 24 hours to get the guts to send the post. I dont do lynches.)

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2 minutes ago, Burnt Spaghetti said:

Basically i give people percentages, usually based off gut, sometimes influenced by facts i may have remembered.

50% is a neutral percentage. Basically means i dunno at all. Either paid no attention, or they are too confusing. Above 50% means im suspicious of them. Perhaps only slightly. 50-60% usually is a not sure but maybe. Above 60%, i typically have a good reason for playing them there. So 50-40% is i slightly trust. Below 40,  ill have a reason. So 40-60% is typically only gut.

I might redo that list anyways. So gimme a min and ill do a new one, now that ive had a chance to pm more people and get to know them a bit better.

Okay, thanks for the explanation.

2 minutes ago, Burnt Spaghetti said:

Mm. Also i understand that im probably a frustrating player to read, but honestly, thats my playstyle.  I aim to be hard to read, regardless of alignment. And also im not really fond of talking in thread much. Just. Not my kinda thing. As ive mentioned previously, i live in pms. Oh also. Be surprised if i ever vote. I typically dont vote for someone unless i truly believe theyre worth killing. With is rare. I kinda usually only vote late game. Also i just hate leading lynches. Some of the people who have gmed me can confirm that ive hd serious anxiety over pushing for a lynch heh. (Seriously. Like. Takes me sometimes over 24 hours to get the guts to send the post. I dont do lynches.)

Well, yes, you are somewhat difficult to get a read on, but that's a valid way to play things. I'll probably try to PM you tonight to try and get a better impression, though I usually try to avoid using PM's for getting reads on people because I've proven quite often that I tend to start trusting almost anyone I didn't already suspect after having a longer PM conversation.

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Updated list

Player List:

  1. Locke Tekiel (Orlok Tsubodai): 39% - based primarily off pm interaction.  Interesting. Ill be curious to see how this percentage rises and falls over the next while.
  2. Elbe (Elbereth) - Dragonslayer how does the dragonslayer thing affect alignments? 50% from uncertainty. Also just nightmare zoned and attacked. So that could mean anything really.
  3. Budgie (A Budgie) *tilts head* and suddenly ive forgotten every one of your posts. 50%
  4. Carrie Brule (Burnt Spaghetti) me! N/A
  5. Clanky (Clanky) 50% *shrugs*
  6. Anwir (Drake Marshal) hmmmmm. 51% 
  7. Anansi (Metacognition) 50% where r u meta?
  8. Small Large (Stink) - Medium well the medium status makes things weird. Also just been nightmare zoning. 50%
  9. Lyren (Droughtbringer) 50% *shrug*
  10. Shqueeves (Shqueeves) 49% *shrugs* seems alright in pms. We'll see. 
  11. Pickle (asterion) 50% *shrug*
  12. Lopen (TheMightyLopen) wish i coulda gotten to pm him last cycle. I do trust him though.  But im better at reading him from pms. 40%.
  13. Tarek (Randuir) ey! You nice and talky. Talky is good. Not pm talky tho :( exact oppisite of me heh xD 45%
  14. BrightnessRadiant: hm. 49%
  15. Bart Allen (Flash): 50% feels pretty neutral to me atm tbh. From the stuff i have paid somewhat attention to, seems to be okay but... hm... weird. Gut wants me to but him as 52%. Im not sure why. I might have to reread his posts later if i can be bothered.*frowns confuzzledly*

 

Mm. Yea i know i dont give many reasons. Im not ever likely to. But if i dont do these lists, i sometimes will not oarticipate in the thread at all so... at least it givesthe thread something to scrutinise.  And if i die, people know who i was frowny about, even if i dont provide reasons. *shrugs* better than nothing. Which i often do....

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On 17/08/2017 at 6:27 AM, Elbereth said:

So much for my extra life... :( 

Also, for those wondering, the Zeta dimension is a doc in which you can talk with others (since a group PM would've been unwieldy. I think we got to 6,500 words or so by the end of the night?). I presume alignment switching happened (I don't have my PM yet so I don't actually know), and obviously killing did unless someone else used a kill role while in the realm, since I certainly didn't use mine. Nothing interesting other than that, though there were hints that there could be interesting potentials with roles. 

How was everyone else's night? 

@Elbereth, good to have some information on Zeta. What was discussed in the doc? Would you care to reveal the hints you speak of? Now that you have received your PM, have you got any information on why you were attacked? Has your alignment changed?

On 17/08/2017 at 7:13 AM, A Budgie said:

Whew, it's good to be back. I haven't got my PM yet either, so they're probably still preparing all of that.
RP time!
Budgie stumbled into the room, hand clutched to her head. Man, that was a weird night. And she'd thought the Court was weird? Ha, nothing compared to that. A crumbling city, with people who had no faces...damnation. She did not want to go there again. As it was, she was pretty glad she had gotten out of there alive.
"Hey everyone. How's everything?" she asked.
"Didn't you hear?" someone said. "Altea was killed last night!"
"And someone tried to kill me!" grumbled Elbe, clutching a wounded arm.
"Really? That sounds worrying...but whoever did it must've known they wouldn't succeed. I mean, trying to take on a Dragonslayer, c'mon. Which means they'll probably strike again, if they want to kill them...but why do they want to kill them, anyway? To get at the Medium?"
"That's me!" yelled Small Large.
"Or because he was on to something..." Budgie mused for a moment more. Then she shrugged. "Eh, I'll think more later. Right now, I want a drink. No, not alcahol. I could do with a hot chocolate."
Grumbling, the girl wandered off.

@A Budgie, whilst it's great to see you RPing, do you have any thoughts on alignment? Who are you suspicious of? What do you think of the candidates with votes on them this cycle? You've been in the Zeta dimension with both El and Lopen - how did they act in there?

I don't want to vote on you yet, but at some point we're going to have to pressure you to give us something alignment indicative. You have the benefit of reluctance to lynch you on your first game, but I've seen eliminators use that to avoid contributing a number of times, and it is somewhat suspicious that you haven't provided thoughts.

On 17/08/2017 at 10:40 AM, randuir said:

A shame about crimsn, but the butcher's bill is in our favor here if we compare with the forest. That's ignoring alignment changes, of course. @STINK, should we be looking for a replacement for the role of medium:P

Anyway, I'll answer a couple of the questions I was asked in PM's after I already signed off for the day. Most of that was stuff I don't mind sharing with the thread as a whole.

So, first of all, the Ecthelion lynch. The people from this thread that voted on him at one point or another where me, Brightness, shqueeves, Drake and Orlok, if I'm not mistaken. Me, Shqueeves and Brightness voted for him for similar reasons (his behavior D1 seemed rather odd), Drake seemed to vote for him to try and keep a tie up, and Orlok voted because he was suspicious of Both Drake and Ecth, but wanted to see more of Drake to further form his opinion. All in all, none of these reasons for voting stand out too much. I'm honestly somewhat surprised at Drake's attempt to force a tie, but it makes him seem somewhat village in my eyes, as an elim wouldn't have taken the risk, and most people would have been able to get away with a vote out of self-preservation if the other target was a reasonable suspect.

The retracted votes where mine, Brightness and Drake's. Drake's retraction had again to do with his attempt to keep a tie up. DA's vote on Ecth made me wary that something else might have been going on, and Brightness found Ecth's explanation good enough. If I put on a particularly paranoid hat then brightness's retraction might make me wonder a bit, but someone else wearing that hat would probably look somewhat suspiciously at my own retraction as well, so I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt here.

This doesn't mean that nothing can be learnt from the Ecthelion lynch. However, it is at the moment only one piece of the puzzle, and more pieces will be needed to get the full picture.

Now, on to a reevaluation of some of my reads, starting with Drake. I'm getting more of a village vibe from his post last cycle. As I mentioned before, I really don't think an eim would have done the 'keeping a tie' thing, unless he had already agreed with another elim that he/she would bail him out. This second option is a possibility, but I think it's unlikely, as it comes with the risk of two elims getting revealed for the price of one (ie, if we lynch drake, and he's evil, we should take a good look at the people that swung the vote in his favor).

Next up is Clanky. I'm actually starting to lean slightly village on him now after seeing how he went after Lopen. I don't think an elim would risk putting himself this clearly on Lopen's radar this early in the game, unless he expected to be able to get Lopen lynched (and if that was his goal, I'd have expected evil!clanky to switch votes to one of the other candidates when the Lopen lynch didn't really get going to try and get under the radar again).

The last person I've been asked about was Lopen. Most of last day he spent defending himself against suspicions and accusations. I don't see any major holes in most of his defenses (things could quite easily be the way he said they are), but he hasn't really posted anything that is alignment indicative. However, @TheMightyLopen, I am interested in what made you get the feeling that Ecth was village. You weren't wrong, so I'm curious about what I missed and/or overlooked.

One more thing I wanted to take a look at is why crimsn got targeted by the elims. The only real suspicion she outed during D2 was a suspicion of Drake,  and if Drake is an elim after all I don't think the wee lil' forest critters would want to attract attention to themselves in that way. Has she shared some suspicions in PM's with anyone? Or alternatively, does anyone know if and to whom she has role-claimed?

Edit: Also, if those of the 'Empty' alignment could step forward, please, and share their win-con, I'd appreciate it.

  @randuir, my own thoughts on your points are as follows:

I don't think participation in the Ecthelion lynch is alignment indicative. He was a villager, and so a plausible target for eliminators, but I found him suspicious enough to vote on, and so it's not unreasonable to think that others did. I still need to look through Drake's posts again, but stand by voting to save him - I've got a stronger village sense from him recently than I had in the first half of D2. One possibility that we ought to consider, though, is that the eliminators have Gillitie roles, and so had a vote manipulator, which meant a tie was a safe place to be, and ensured Drake would be "soft-cleared" in this manner. Equally, it would be early for the eliminators to tip their hand like that, and is nothing more than speculation. 

Randuir, you mention that your retraction was because of DA's vote, and use that as justification, thinking that "something was going on". At this point, we hadn't had the opportunity to communicate with Forest players, so I'm slightly confused as to what collusion you think could have taken place. Would you expound upon this further, please?

Having swung the lynch in Drake's favour, I can tell you that there isn't any information to derive from lynching him, but would certainly have been sympathetic to such a lynch myself if I didn't already know that it wouldn't be useful, so could forgive you for pursuing it. 

I'm not sure I agree with your reasoning on Clanky. There are certainly arguments for building momentum on a lynch of village!Lopen over several cycles, and once committed, it would be yet more suspicious to back down. I remain suspicious of Clanky's suggestions for the voting in the meet, which would have essentially guaranteed that we reached his point in the game without information, so think casting suspicion on Lopen as an eliminator does bear thought. That said, I think the part that does make him less likely to be an eliminator in my eyes is that I think there's a reasonable chance that Lopen is evil, and I can't see eliminator!Clanky going after eliminator!Lopen like that.

On 17/08/2017 at 1:40 PM, Flash said:

Well every one came back from the negative dimension (mostly) safe and sound. Back to our normal killing activities. 

Is it safe to assume Elb was "attacked" by the negative dimension, while Crimsn was an elim attack? And why would Crimsn be attacked by the elims? 

So many questions, so few answers. The great thing is that I'm going to have a LOT more time on my hands today as soon as I finish a stupid essay so I should have much more time to conduct a much more thorough analysis than I already did. Which will help me to feel more useful. 

Edit: All PMs i didn't respond to, I apologize. I was at a party with my girlfriend last night who I haven't seen in about a month, so I wasn't checking my phone before it shut off. And after 8:45 it did shut off, and so I couldn't see anything after that point in time. Your concerns and comments are noted and appreciated. 

@Flash, I think it is safe to assume that Crimsn was attacked by the elimaintors. The alternative is that El was attacked by an eliminator in the Zeta dimension, which requires communication within the eliminator team to establish that. Given we couldn't PM them, I think it unlikely that someone in the Zeta dimension would retain doc access. Further, El was attacked in a dimension known to carry a risk of attacking its inhabitants. Overall. I don't really think this was a necessary question, and can see it being an attempt at distancing yourself from knowledge about the eliminator kill.

23 hours ago, Flash said:

Ok then, does that mean we should do a contribution crusade? I've seen pretty much nothing from Meta, Drought, and asterion. 

Um... @Jondesu... wrong thread. You're a forester, not a courter. 

@Flash, I know this has been called out already, but want to add my voice to the criticism of this. Given you later call out the fact that there's less information to analyse in this thread, what made you think that the contribution crusade was a good idea? Why did you think it would help us?

21 hours ago, Flash said:

And we just expect the elims to comply politely? :P 

In my experience elims tend to be non co-operative, hardened killers. Except that one time araris didn't want to kill me because I was the sole active player. Other than that. 

So I've done a bit of reading. Orlok, why did you choose to break the tie on Ecth? It reads weird. 

Clanky, I'm getting mixes vibes from you. Would you mind posting and sharing some thoughts? 

Drake, im still reading evil on you :P I'm trying really hard not to tunnel but your posts keep setting off my alarm bells. 

All people who haven't said much: I SUMMON YOU! Please participate! The woods is SO much more interesting than our thread right now, and that ain't all right! Please be active guys! Some of you I have spoken to in PMs, but some never responded. 

The issue with not doing a contribution crusade is that we will tend to hit active villagers. Leaving elims and inactive villagers behind. That's what happened in L35, and I would rather it not occur here. 

@Flash, I've already addressed why I broke the tie in favour of Ecth, but would now like to understand the specifics of your "mixed vibes" on Clanky. Which posts are giving you village reads, which eliminator reads, and why?

The issue with doing a contribution crusade is that we end up with a more active remaining player base, but absolutely no information from which to find the eliminators, whilst letting them make kills that reveal nothing, and allowing them to hand pick the active players they want alive in the end game. I cannot see it being a sensible strategy for the village, and can't really see why the village would suggest it at this point.

20 hours ago, randuir said:

Okay, I'm having trouble with coming up with someone I'm super suspicious of, so instead I'm going to do a quick list of people I'm either leaning village on, or that I just don't want to lynch this cycle as I believe lynching them would negatively affect activity and information gathering.

Probably village

BrightnessRadiant, as I actually believe her comment about signing up to RP with crimsn and ecth.

Randuir, as I probably haven't misread my GM PM.

Maybe village

Drake, as I don't believe an elim would be actively trying to hold a tie in place of which he himself is part.

Clanky, as he moved too aggressively after Lopen for an elim.

Hopefully still Neutral

Stink

Elbereth

Inactive

Meta

Asterion

Of the 7 remaining drought has only posted only twice thrice (though his second post did contain some game-related stuff), so though I do want him to be more active, he hasn't said enough to justify a lynch this cycle. That leaves these 6:

  1. Locke Tekiel (Orlok Tsubodai)
  2. Budgie (A Budgie)
  3. Carrie Brule (Burnt Spaghetti)
  4. Shqueeves (Shqueeves)
  5. Lopen (TheMightyLopen)
  6. Bart Allen (Flash)

I'd like budgie to try and post a bit more regarding her suspicions, as sticking mostly with RP could just be a hiding technique. It could also be as she said,and that she's just looking for something to contribute as this is her first game. Either way, I'd prefer to wait a bit more before starting a lynch on her.

I know I put Orlok on a slight village read before, but (as he himself pointed out, I think), what I saw as village was merely 'good for the game', which I reckon elim!orlok would do as well. I'd prefer not to lynch him this cycle for that reason yet, though.

so, all together, I'd be okay-ish, with lynching Flash, Lopen, Burnt or Shqueeves this cycle. I wanted to actually place a vote right now, but it's late where I'm at, and I want to take another good look at these 4 before voting.

@randuir, would you explain why believing Brightness' comment makes her village? It's entirely possible to sign up for a game for that reason, and then turn out to be evil. As I've said, I'm wary of Clanky, and think his alignment is tied to that Lopen. 

Agreed on Budgie, as set out above. Would you clarify your point on me? I'm not quite clear on what you're saying here.

I can see arguments for lynching Flash, Lopen and Burnt, but am less certain on Shqueeves. I don't remember their posting anything alignment indicative (although I suppose their limited posting might be alignment indicative in itself). If you've got time, I'd like to see your actual thoughts on each of these players, though.

19 hours ago, Flash said:

I've had several people point things like this out to me, which is what makes me unsure of my vote. The problem is I don't have any better candidates at the moment. So I'll keep my vote on him for now. I see a possibility that it was a WWG. 

Again, it's really hard. We're apparently not supposed to do a contribution crusade, and pretty much all the active people im getting village reads on! Frankly if I were anybody else I would be like "im gonna vote flash". But I'm not because I also know that I'm not an eliminator either. I also have the added drive of wanting to find through analysis an elim, rather than riding on other people's coattails like I've done in every other game. 

@Flash, would you explain how a vote can be a Wounded Gazelle Gambit (which I think is what you meant to say)? A wounded Gazelle Gambit entails a kill, rather than a lynch.

I also dislike the wording here. "Apparently", particularly stands out. Do you agree that we should be avoiding a contribution crusade, or are you refraining from it only because others oppose it?

16 hours ago, asterion137 said:

WGG? Or am i missing something

@asterion137, in case you're still struggling to keep up with the game, I don't think so, Asterion. Flash's comment didn't make sense to me, either.

16 hours ago, BrightnessRadiant said:

@Flash aww thanks! (also yeah, I warned when I signed up that I'd be less active heh) :P I'll rp with you when I'm done posting lots of analysis heh

Anyways, here's analysis finally!

Let's start with Drake since he seems to be a focal point:

1. okay, first off...why you post so much xD...well that's good but ugh analysis haha.

k, first post is about taking the test if our Gunnerkrigg spies in the woods start getting low....well I think that's a good idea. -village read

2. mmm rules clarifications and rp

3. votes for himself to become Medium and gets attacked by everyone for it xD...that's politics -village read (cuz no one voted for him...and I think at least one teammate would have)

4. Says this cycle 1

Which sounds like more of a villager thing to draw attention to imo.

5. But then proceeds to actually suggest this plan in the name of "experimentation"...which doesn't sound like a good idea heh. -still reading neutral for this cuz I'm not sure if he actually wanted to try it.

6. Still talking about the testing and supposes there might be another secret to the tests. -neutral (cuz everyone is trying to find the secrets in this game heh)

7. conjectures about roles and mourns that our thread is less active than the woods (sorry prob cuz I wasn't here :P haha) -neutral read for this post, although he spent a large amount of this day cycle focusing on the secrets of the game rather than discussing a lynch imo. Guess that could be also elim read.

8. Talks about Potatoes and mine fields. -reading fun for this :P

9. Says that if we can only take the test once then we should wait a little bit to take it. -still reading neutral because both alignments have good reason to wait

10. Says he's not really feeling a lynch, but that we could contribution crusade....why tho...just why. -reading elim for this cuz contribution crusade on cycle one is ugh

11. Talks more about the testing...really interested in switching threads aren't you Drake? heh. -reading neutral to elim (are you trying to find a way to escape the court sir robot? lol)

Night Cycle finally lol:

1. posts about the Mediums having a new win con and then asks if we're going to have a lynch. (oops it's night lol)

2. just jokes and role plays for the rest of the night cycle

NAI for the night cycle

Day 2:

 

1. talks about the Medium's win cons and secret roles -still reading neutral...really ugh heh

2. comments on the woods losing two players and says they should try to figure out if there was a vigilante kill or a serial killer (uh...not that it's not polite to care when people die, but why so interested in woods people dying? Are they your teammates heh :P) -kinda neutral to elim

3. Long post answering questions and commenting on other's posts.-reads slightly village to neutral (too long to quote or summarize heh so here's a link)

4. Had said in his last post that he was gonna try and come up with a lynch candidate but then never posts again until this post which was five hours before cycle's end, where he votes for Ecth to tie the votes up, saving himself from the lynch. Says he's probably gonna die that cycle, and gives a parting post on his game thoughts. (I'm really curious to know his alignment at this point cuz he cast suspicion on Lopen, Burnt, and Stink in that farewell address heh) -reading NAI for this post cuz I seriously don't know what to think about it

5. removes his vote from Ecth to keep it a tie when someone else voted Ecth? Odd. and encourages Burnt to post more reads -reading village for this post

6. Is sad cuz the tie was broken -reading confusion xD

uh the end?

Well.....hmmmm can I just say @Drake Marshall one thing for sure is that you're really confusing in this game :P (tbh I kinda wanna lynch you just to find out lol)

guess on to the next person analysis...maybe Clanky next.

Edit: forgot to respond to this:

concerning what, dear brother :P @TheMightyLopen

@BrightnessRadiant, you've commented on Drake's post, but could you synthesise your thoughts, and give us an overall view? It's difficult to get a clear sense of your alignment from this post without it. You make points both in favour and against lynching Drake, and don't really say anything controversial. Do you think @Drake Marshall is an eliminator?

15 hours ago, BrightnessRadiant said:

Okay Clanky's turn to be in the spotlight :P @Clanky tagging you so you can respond to my thoughts

1. Says this:

soooo pretty NAI

2. Says he's not gonna vote or be very active cuz of spotty internet - still NAI

3. Says he's trying to focus more on fun for his game meta now and that he's gonna try to be more active after this post - NAI (but yay for fun and activeness haha)

4. Says he'd rather we lynched a forest villager than try to find one among the courties...but....why? -reading elim (cuz it just seems odd and not very productive for the court)

5. voted Lopen for a misunderstanding but then never removes the vote after Lopen explained -reading elim 

6. Says this when questioned about leaving his vote on Lopen:

ehhhh Lopen hasn't really been anti-lynch tho *shrugs. Plus, Clanky even suggested lynching a forester that cycle instead of someone from the Court so how is that really any different from being anti-lynch. Both aren't very helpful. -reading slightly elim for this

7. Speaks up for the Contribution Crusade saying that it could get people more involved -reading kinda NAI for this cuz everyone seems to have varied opinions on the CC (although this seems like the second time he's drawn attention away from an actual lynch, eh *shrugs)

8. This post confused me a bit tbh. Not sure if it's just cuz I've been doing too much analysis and my brain is tired or if it just seems off. Why would you say it's fine to vote someone in the name of the CC just to get their attention, but then condemn Lopen for saying the same thing about Ecth's vote on Shqueeves day 1?

9. Says his reasoning for voting Lopen might not be the best, but he didn't have much time to find suspicions. -reading kinda neutral to village (cuz I know he's busy irl and it seems like he's trying to be involved at least which is good)

all in all....I think I'd like to see a little more from Clanky this cycle before I make any kind of vote on him. Although lynching him might provide a little insight into Lopen and Rand's alignments cuz he's had interactions with both players in thread.

 

@BrightnessRadiant, given you appear to be reading pretty elimaintor on Clanky, why refrain from voting? Do you have stronger suspicions on any other player? Given your current thoughts on Clanky, what are your thoughts on @TheMightyLopen?

11 hours ago, Drake Marshall said:

Alright... I do believe I've read up-to-date on this cycle.

So... I guess here is probably the part that I should talk about who we should lynch.

Last cycle, I narrowed down to a list of potential suspects / potential lynch targets (if you want to see where I'm getting this list, see this post). I'd say that list is still mostly relevant, so rather than making a new one I'm going to stick with that one.

 

Budgie (A Budgie)

 Altea Meza (Crimsn-Wolf)

Carrie Brule (Burnt Spaghetti)

Lopen (TheMightyLopen)

BrightnessRadiant

 

Of those. Crimsn is dead, and a dead villager at that.

I'd be against lynching Burnt (this cycle, anyway), because she responded to my original vote last cycle, and I think there is less grounds to lynch her now. (that said, I'd be happy to hear more game thoughts today, if you have any to share)

BR is a pretty neutral read. Not my first choice for a lynch this cycle.

I still want to hear more from Budgie. @A Budgie, so far you've continued your pattern of posting mostly RP. I love RP in these games, but I'm still very interested to hear some game thoughts from you. Please share at least who you are reading elim on. Right now, it kind of looks like you are trying to fly under the radar by only posting RP. And I've seen that strategy used effectively before by eliminators.

That all said, you may have guessed by process of elimination that right now, my vote rests on Lopen. @TheMightyLopen All of your actions so far look like they can be attributed to self preservation, and I'm wary of that. Also your main post today kind of felt like you were casting a wide net to throw suspicion on a lot of people without directly committing to a suspicion.

Also. Did you refrain from voting because of the regional faerie thing? That would explain at least some of the post I referenced.

 

EDIT: Oh, I'm forgetting something.

Those were my thoughts on the lynch, but I also wanted to share some thoughts on the game.

Namely, two thoughts:

 

1. How viable does it sound to learn somebody's alignment by having them take the test? They have an above-average shot at being an eliminator in the other thread, meaning that if only a small number of people did this, it would benefit the Court. What's more, their role/alignment should still flip if they test, meaning we get a level of information that is comparable to the lynch.

The one caveat to this is that, obviously, not everybody likes changing alignment. I mean, it means that everything you did prior to the point at which you changed alignment is now actually bad for your new win condition. So... Chances are, most people would prefer switching alignment earlier in the game, if they have the choice.

If y'alls really want, I could pursue this option for myself. I'd be interested in seeing what comes of it. That said, unless people actually want me to do that, I don't think I'm going to.

 

2. Secret alignments. Here's an idea.

It's probably pretty useful to know the nature of all these secret alignments, right?

And, chances are, a lot of these secret alignments are not directly mutually exclusive with our win conditions (unless they are serial killers, but I doubt it). Meaning, in theory we might be able to coexist.

So. What if we all agreed not to lynch the first secret alignment person that revealed themselves and told us their win condition? This offer would be contingent upon the terms that their win condition is not mutually exclusive with our own in any way.

It should also go without saying that if there is evidence that they lied about their win condition, the offer of protection would be void, and we'd lynch them.

Now, seeing as I'm pretty much making a shot in the dark here, I really don't know if this is actually a good idea.

But, I figure that potentially it may be advantageous for us to know some of these things. I'd be willing to coexist with a lesser evil if they described exactly what their agenda is. Plus it would remove a suspe-- oh wait.

Actually that's a terrible idea because the elims could just pretend to be a secret alignment. Forget that I just said any of that. :P

@Drake Marshall, I don't know that I like the fact that you don't appear to be reevaluating your initial list, given the information that's been generated thus far. Why aren't you doing so?

I'm still not certain about Burnt. She's continued to act suspiciously inn my PM, but I don't think she'd be so blatant about it if she were evil. At some point, I'd support her lynch if only for my peace of mind - I don't like ruling someone out on the grounds of something being "too obvious", but I don't think she'd generate much information, and am more suspicious of other players than her.

I'd like further alignment indicative material from Brightness Radiant, but definitely don't think a lynch is the right way to pursue that this cycle.

I agree that Budgie needs to come further into the spotlight, and think it might be worth making clear to her that I might be prepared to vote on her next cycle if she continues to hide. 

I'd contribute suspicion of Lopen for his reading of me. I'm paying in a pretty similar way to the style I used in QF25 (and LG36), and Lopen was consistently sceptical of me. I don't think I've done as well as I could have in making it obvious that I'm a villager, and yet Lopen is reading me as village, rather than uncertain. It's a small thing, but I think there's a chance that he's saying this because he knows my alignment.

9 hours ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Drake, you still seem to be holding on to the idea that I was bandwagoning when I voted on you. It was not bandwagoning, because I was one of the first players, if not the first, to speak out against you. And now that more has happened and there's new posts of yours to analyse, my opinion shifted somewhat. Just because I say I agree with Rand's points about you doesn't mean I didn't have them myself already. I'm just saying I had the same thoughts, because it makes sense, not because I'm following popular opinion.

As for that "suspicions" list I put up earlier, it's actually very similar to yours, I just didn't vote, because I hadn't thought about it enough to put down a vote. But now that I've thought about it some more, I don't think I'd want to lynch Budgie, Burnt, or BR. Budgie is new, and I would like to give them more time to prove themselves. Burnt, well, I'd love it if she'd post some more alignment indicative thoughts, but I think I'd have a better read on her if I'd been able to PM her last Night Turn. BR, well, I just don't want to lynch her right now? :P

So that leaves Elbereth, Randuir, and Shqueeves. Shqueeves is busy with his sisters wedding I think, so I'd prefer to give him some more time. Between Rand and El, I'd have to go with El, simply because I haven't really gotten any good reads on her posts so far. I'm actually mildly suspicious of both Rand and El, but I've gotten some good vibes from Rand, so I'm voting Elbereth. I realize I might not get a lot of support with this vote, considering I'm not really accusing her of anything, so I'll work on going through her posts tomorrow(as well as the other top voted players) tomorrow to make a better case.

Lopen, I really don't like the part of this post to which I've added emphasis. It reads to me like you've already made your mind up on pursuing a lynch of El, despite your argument being that she hasn't given you anything alignment indicative, and that you intend to make a case for lynching her, rather than trying to work out whether she is suspicious. Why are you so set on lynching her?

Would you justify your view on BR?

7 hours ago, randuir said:

Okay, I'm going to do a bit of post by post of the four I listed as my main suspects. Before that, though:

I'd say everyone here, court or forest, has a vested interest in independent alignments, as I doubt they are of the 'just survive' type(as that would be a bit boring, and Aonar/Joe are not boring). Knowing what they want can be important for both factions in the end-game. And I just don't like not knowing some of the mechanics in play, there's that too. So yes, I'm interested in the possible alignment changes, but I'd say that's rather NAI :P.

Anyway, I'm going to start with @Shqueeves(and I'll be stealing BR's way of formatting these.):

1. Apologizes for not posting, and votes STINK for medium. - NAI

2. Says he's caught up again, and that he'll post more thoughts when he's had some sleep. - Anyone who says thinks like this is an obvious elim, just like at that Rand fellow [/sarcasm]. obviously NAI. 

3. Another apology for being silent, now with an explanation. He places a vote on Ecth with reasonably good reasoning. - NAI

4. Actually colors his vote for ecth red. - NAI

5. Says hello to Burnt, and says he'll probably PM her during the night. - NAI

So overall, I can conclude with 100% certainty that Shqueeves hasn't posted nowhere near enough for me to get a good idea about his alignment.

So, maybe @Flash will be easier to read.

1. Announces his rebirth and flips the verbal bird to the forest as he announces that he is now gunnerkrig (ie, village). - NAI

2. Says that seeming enthusiastic is normal behavior for him. - NAI

3. Asks if we can assume that winter was the elim kill. -... Not sure what to think here. This seems rather obvious, so maybe he's playing up his not-knowing of that to seem more village? This is definitely not NAI, but whether it's elim or village *shrug*.

4. banter with forest players. - NAI

5. Converses with jondesu about the motives behind his death. - NAI. I'm tempted to put an elim read here, as he seems to be trying to help the forest find his killers, who are gunnerkrig, but I don't think I would have been able to restrain myself from adding information here if I was in that situation.

6. The main point of this pot seems to be to once again remind us that he's gunnerkrig now. - Slightly elim. Okay, that's three times in one cycle that he felt the need to mention this. Starting to get slightly suspicious here.

7. Says he's going to think more about why he was killed (which is fine, as long as he doesn't share it with he forest). He also agrees with the reasoning for the ecth lynch, but that he won't vote before he's been able to do some of his own analysis. - NAI

8. Flash indicates that he won't have time for the analysis after all. - NAI

9. Apologizes for not participating in the lynch, and that he didn't expect that day to be so busy for him. - very slight elim. He said that he agreed with the reasons for the ecth lynch, but he didn't participate in any way. this makes me wonder whether he had additional knowledge.

10. Notices that Zeta has triggered. - NAI

11. Points out to Orlok that he probably shouldn't be posting as he was in the zeta zone. Says that the zeta activation will be interesting, and wonders whether 'boring' did this. - NAI

12. Says that he thinks 'boring' couldn't have affected the large number of forest critters pulled into the zeta zone. - NAI

13. Says that he doesn't expect everyone to return from the Zeta zone, and suggests they try to use powers to see what will happen. -very slight village. Given the larger number of forest people in there, encouraging them to do stuff that has the potential to kill them isn't exactly bad.

14. Shares his reads, and makes a case for why he might be a decent medium. As part of this case he also talks about the odds involved with his alignment, and that we should only lynch him if we have arguments to the contrary, rather than lynching him because the 40% chance of him being an elim. -NAI. reads are nice, but I'd have liked more elaboration on Drake apart from 'his posts seem off to me'. He also takes the opportunity to once again reminds him he is definitely village.

15. Says that he'll have a lot more time once he's done with his essay, and asks if it's reasonable to assume thatcrimsn was the elim kill. - NAI. Unlike with his question about winter, this is actually not very obvious, so it's not indicative that he asks about it.

16 and 17 Explains about what he thinks happened to stick. - NAI

18. Asks STINK why he thinks the current elim kills are bad. - NAI/slightly village, maybe. It certainly is an interesting thing to pick up on.

19. Suggests the possiblity of a CC lynch. - elim

20. Says he still has a gut suspicion of Drake, and that he's working hard to try and catch an elim for the first time. -NAI, but really, I'm seeing far too many posts from Flash that can be summarized by 'I'm really a villager, you guys!' without losing much in the way of content and insight. This makes me suspicious.

21. Asks a couple of questions of Orlok and Clanky. Also repeats that he's still suspicious of Drake, saying that his posts set off alarm bells. Finally, he asks everyone who hasn't been posting much to post more. - Neutral(yes, that's different from NAI). Asking the questions and trying to encourage activity is all good. Saying that he's suspicious of Drake without actually providing examples of what makes him suspicious isn't.

22. Chucks a bit of suspicion towards Orlok over the Ecth lynch. - slight elim. I don't know about Orlok's bussing strategy, but if he said Drake's lynch up, he would have had Drake try to break it, not do it himself, risking getting both of them lynched. Flash's comment therefore seems rather unreasonable.

23. Places his vote on Drake, and admits that he hasn't much to support it with. Also points out that apparently a couple of player metas have changed. -slight elim. Again, this seems like fostering a bit of suspicion without actually committing by providing examples of why someone is evil, or how people's metas have changed in a signifcant/alingnment indicative way.

24. Wonders whether drake risking his live on the lynch was a kind of Wounded Wallaby Gambit. Also repeats that he's village. - Neutral. The explanation for Drake's actions is not unreasonable. It's also (at least) the fifth time in 2 cycles he felt the need to remind everyone that he is village.

25. Explains that he meant to say Wounded Gazelle Gambit, not Wounded Warthog Gambit. - NAI

So that's flash. Right now I'm leaning elim on him. He just seemed to spend too much time trying to remind everyone that he's village, either by outright saying it, or by saying rather obvious villagery things ("I really want to catch an elim"), while his suspicions are not supported much at all.

I'm taking a short break here before I do the other two. I'm going to vote Flash for now, though I might change that later once I'm done looking at Burnt and Lopen.

Randuir, I agree that Flash is pretty likely to be an eliminator, and think this raises an interesting question. Is it worth lynching Flash? I don't know that at this stage he poses any danger to us, and don't think he'll reveal terribly much information. What would be more interesting is keeping him alive, and watching how he interacts with other players. In AG3, I caught Wilson very early on in my analysis - Nyali made a slip up, and referred to a "second" WGG, incriminating Wilson. It was incredibly useful to go through the rest of the game as I was catching up knowing the identity of an eliminator, and it allowed me to identify Hero as another eliminator (sadly, I collapsed towards the end of the game, and was unable to actually get my suspicions in thread, but you can verify this with Wilson). It's clearly a risk, and would be less useful given Flash would know he was being watched. Given I don't think his death would give us much information at present, and there are other suspicious players who would give us a great deal more information, I think it's worth the risk that we wait too late to lynch Flash. Ultimately, we could get a string of incredibly useful mislynches right up to lynch or lose, and then use that information to get the entire elimaintor team. Whilst an extreme scenario, and one I hope doesn't happen, I hope it helps illustrate that information is more useful to us than a dead eliminator whose death won't reveal information.

5 hours ago, Flash said:

You know, I had no idea I repeated myself so much. But this also isn't the first time I've done that. May I also note that often my being village is part of my train of thought? I understand your suspicion based upon it, but context is important. I'm not just like "content... oh and btw dont forget that I'm village!" That would be awful. 

Anyway, i didn't really get much sleep last night, as I was thinking. drake . Next I would like to point out massive suspicion of Lopen based on his vote on Elbereth. Elbereth, to me, is one of the strongest confirmed villagers due to the whole "no CC thing," even if I don't personally agree entirely with her opinions. I don't think shes done anything worth voting her for. So, FoS on you Lopen for that. 

But i would also like to point out: yesterday I complained about not being able to lynch active or inactive people. Obviously the correct route is to lynch SEMI active. Semi active, in my opinion, is the perfect place for the elims to hide. 

I also have a major piece of information to share, which might put me at risk of instantly being on the hit list of the elims. I'm still thinking about whether I should share it or not, but I probably will. 

Flash, could you point to three instances of you doing so in the woods thread, where we know you were a villager? 

Why are you removing your vote from Drake?

Why does opposing the contribution crusade clear El? There are a number of players who opposed the contribution crusade. DO you apply the same logic to all of them, and so clear them?

Highly active players can also be eliminators, Flash. Yes, it's high exposure, but also influences opinion. Look at Wyrm in QF9 as a shining example of controlling the thread discussion as an eliminator.

5 hours ago, randuir said:

Why exactly does the no CC thing make you think Elbereth is village? I can see Elbereth taking that stance regardless of alignment, and if the elims believe themselves well hidden, it's a good stance to take as it helps with whittling down the number of active villagers quickly. 

I am however getting a weird vibe from Lopen, which I find strange in and of itself as usually Elim!Lopen blindsides me. I'll go through Lopen's posts next to see if I can remove or substantiate this suspicion.

I agree that the contribution crusade thing is NAI for El. It's a view she and I hold generally, and that I'd expect her to make whatever her alignment, lest the contribution crusade become a prevalent tool again, and so influence future games.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on Lopen.

At the moment, I'm suspicious of either Clanky or Lopen, Budgie, Flash, and wary of Burnt. 

I don't think Burnt warrants a lynch yet, but do want her to engage in the thread, so I can get a non-PM read from her. I think Flash is evil, but don't want to lynch him at the moment for the reasons set out above. I think that there's a reasonable chance that Budgie is indeed hiding, but want to give them a cycle to engage before voting on them.

I think Clanky may well be evil if Lopen does turn out to be village, but at the moment think Lopen is more likely to be evil than Clanky, and so Lopen has my vote for now.

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On 8/16/2017 at 0:57 AM, Darkness Ascendant said:

@Elbereth When you're back from your holiday in lala-land, I'll have you know my puns shall not be hindered by your disapproval. In fact I shall try to make the barrage so large that the sheer amount will make you stagger (que: Oh deer).

Mm. >> 

On 8/16/2017 at 0:14 PM, Flash said:

Second off, I would like to put myself up as a potential candidate for Medium in case Stink doesn't return. Stink is great, but if he dies, we're going to need a new medium. I already tried to run for Medium in the forest thread, and it went alright. But I forsee a major complaint about me running for medium: the possibility of me being an elim. A hard, 40% possibility.

This is a legitimate concern, so I'm going to address it before actively pursuing the medium role (only if Stink dies). It is not a 40% chance that I am elim at any moment. It was after I died that it became a roll of the dice whether i became village or elim in the court thread. Furthermore, 60% is bigger than 40%. And now, in this moment, I am 100% village. Not 60% village and 40% elim. So if you are going to address the concern that I might be elim, please come up with actual evidence, rather than the percent chance that I might be eliminator. If you genuinely think my tone is off, or I know who's good and evil, or I'm just acting evil, go ahead and lynch me. But just like the people that will come back from the negative dimension, there was a chance that I turned alignments. Just like I hope you will give me, I will be giving them the benefit of the doubt. Just because they could be an elim or evil neutral, doesn't mean they are. 

If Stink does return, you may fully ignore this intent. I don't plan on going for Medium if he comes back. But I will if he doesn't. I hope you'll give me the chance to make a difference in the Court. 

While it doesn't seem relevant at moment - since Flash has done plenty of other things since then far more indicative of alignment - I just wanted to point out is that this is actually really very good reasoning, and I approve of it. (It's analogous to wanting to lynch experienced players because they're experienced rather 

23 hours ago, Flash said:

Ok then, does that mean we should do a contribution crusade? I've seen pretty much nothing from Meta, Drought, and asterion. 

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Other people already pointed this out, but bah. Why is a contribution crusade a good idea? At all? >> 

19 hours ago, Flash said:

I've had several people point things like this out to me, which is what makes me unsure of my vote. The problem is I don't have any better candidates at the moment. So I'll keep my vote on him for now. I see a possibility that it was a WWG. 

Again, it's really hard. We're apparently not supposed to do a contribution crusade, and pretty much all the active people im getting village reads on! Frankly if I were anybody else I would be like "im gonna vote flash". But I'm not because I also know that I'm not an eliminator either. I also have the added drive of wanting to find through analysis an elim, rather than riding on other people's coattails like I've done in every other game. 

Orlok just pointed out the WGG thing, which is good, because it doesn't make sense. 

I would also point out that if you want to catch people by analysis, why are you proposing a Contribution Crusade? That isn't the way to get information so that you can analyse enough to catch someone... 

9 hours ago, TheMightyLopen said:

So that leaves Elbereth, Randuir, and Shqueeves. Shqueeves is busy with his sisters wedding I think, so I'd prefer to give him some more time. Between Rand and El, I'd have to go with El, simply because I haven't really gotten any good reads on her posts so far. I'm actually mildly suspicious of both Rand and El, but I've gotten some good vibes from Rand, so I'm voting Elbereth. I realize I might not get a lot of support with this vote, considering I'm not really accusing her of anything, so I'll work on going through her posts tomorrow(as well as the other top voted players) tomorrow to make a better case.

:( That's kind of hard to defend against... >> 

Also, are we back to the beginning again? With the you-can't-read-me? :P 

5 hours ago, Flash said:

Anyway, i didn't really get much sleep last night, as I was thinking. drake . Next I would like to point out massive suspicion of Lopen based on his vote on Elbereth. Elbereth, to me, is one of the strongest confirmed villagers due to the whole "no CC thing," even if I don't personally agree entirely with her opinions. I don't think shes done anything worth voting her for. So, FoS on you Lopen for that. 

So, I get the impression that the thing you don't agree with about my opinion is the CC thing. Could you explain why you disagree, please? 

33 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

@Elbereth, good to have some information on Zeta. What was discussed in the doc? Would you care to reveal the hints you speak of? Now that you have received your PM, have you got any information on why you were attacked? Has your alignment changed?

BrightnessRadiant, you've commented on Drake's post, but could you synthesise your thoughts, and give us an overall view? It's difficult to get a clear sense of your alignment from this post without it. You make points both in favour and against lynching Drake, and don't really say anything controversial. Do you think @Drake Marshall is an eliminator?

I agree that the contribution crusade thing is NAI for El. It's a view she and I hold generally, and that I'd expect her to make whatever her alignment, lest the contribution crusade become a prevalent tool again, and so influence future games.

Not much of actual use was discussed in the doc, except who each person was (since it was anonymous). The hints were essentially my asking Aonar whether it was possible to communicate outside the dimension (or a similar question, since I can't remember what I actually asked), and he said that it could be theoretically possible depending on what roles were there with me. (No roleclaims were exchanged, which made that particular hint rather useless.) 
No, my alignment hasn't changed, and the attack was by a robot claiming that I was the reason "she" was dead. People who read the comics? Help? 

This reminded me of a thing I was going to comment for several of the long analysis-posts: all of them felt lacking in synthesis and conclusion, personally. My suggestion would be to take out the NAI posts, since I feel like that would make it far clearer what you actually think of the person in question, but something other than "this person has said some elim things and some villager things", as happened with most of those posts, would be welcome. 

Orlok's entirely correct on this. I have several strong meta-views, like that on the Contribution Crusade, and I'm going to point those out when I see an issue with any of them regardless of my alignment. They're a useful way of contributing to the meta, and occasionally to the game as well, but I would say them if I were village, if I were evil and my teammates were all inactive, and also if I were evil and my teammates were all active. Because I think it's important to say. 

 

May vote before the end of the cycle and may not, but I'm unsure for the moment who I would vote for - I don't particularly like Lopen's reasons for voting me (for the same reasons that Orlok pointed out), but I've read him as village other than that. Rand and Orlok both feel like they've been flying a little bit under the radar by driving discussion, but I value it enough that I wouldn't be interested in lynching either yet. BR's posts (particularly the analyses) have struck me as very neutral and uncontroversial, so possibly her. We'll see. 

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Ok the reason I sort of am partial to a contribution crusade is that we are going to lynch another active player otherwise. It's also out of a desire to inspire people to be active. I would rather not have to do a contribution crusade, but when this thread is hard to get reads on because some people aren't saying much, I think that is an issue. I already mentioned earlier how i feel it went in L35- some people went inactive, and we lynched all of our active villagers! That's NOT ok. But if anyone has a better solution to this issue, I would be grateful to hear it. 

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Right. So, the thing is, the Contribution Crusade doesn't inspire people to be active. Usually, the people lynched through it aren't paying enough attention to even become active again in the first place. 

I'd also distinguish between a lynch and a pokevote. If you're going to get someone to be active, a single vote and a mention should be enough for them to notice. Alternatively, PMing them. Both of those are far more effective ways than lynching a player. 

Yes, it means we lynch an active player instead. Which isn't fun. But it's the only way to derive enough information from the game to actually solve it. If you have another proposal as to alternative ways of doing that which are as effective as a lynch discussion, I'm all ears. 

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10 hours ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Drake, you still seem to be holding on to the idea that I was bandwagoning when I voted on you. It was not bandwagoning, because I was one of the first players, if not the first, to speak out against you. And now that more has happened and there's new posts of yours to analyse, my opinion shifted somewhat. Just because I say I agree with Rand's points about you doesn't mean I didn't have them myself already. I'm just saying I had the same thoughts, because it makes sense, not because I'm following popular opinion.

As for that "suspicions" list I put up earlier, it's actually very similar to yours, I just didn't vote, because I hadn't thought about it enough to put down a vote. But now that I've thought about it some more, I don't think I'd want to lynch Budgie, Burnt, or BR. Budgie is new, and I would like to give them more time to prove themselves. Burnt, well, I'd love it if she'd post some more alignment indicative thoughts, but I think I'd have a better read on her if I'd been able to PM her last Night Turn. BR, well, I just don't want to lynch her right now? :P

So that leaves Elbereth, Randuir, and Shqueeves. Shqueeves is busy with his sisters wedding I think, so I'd prefer to give him some more time. Between Rand and El, I'd have to go with El, simply because I haven't really gotten any good reads on her posts so far. I'm actually mildly suspicious of both Rand and El, but I've gotten some good vibes from Rand, so I'm voting Elbereth. I realize I might not get a lot of support with this vote, considering I'm not really accusing her of anything, so I'll work on going through her posts tomorrow(as well as the other top voted players) tomorrow to make a better case.

I wouldn't see that I am going after you solely for bandwagonning. Although I will note that "I'm allowed to genuinely agree with other people, aren't I" is a pretty universal defense from those who are accused of bandwagonning.

That said. I think you for both giving a defense and casting a vote. Both of those are useful for the game.

I am a little confused at your choice of Elbereth though. She is, by your process of elimination, a fair candidate... And yet you don't really offer a reason to lynch her, specifically. You leave yourself open to hop on a different lynch later in the cycle. And you don't really talk about the implications of lynching a dragonslayer. The more paranoid side of me wonders if you are gunning to replace a village dragonslayer with an eliminator.

So. While I'd be foolish to say I have no doubts. My vote stays where it is right now.

 

4 hours ago, Flash said:

Ok so here's what I think I figured out: I believe I know who the zeta is. I am not going to reveal their identity, to prevent any zeta-lynchers or if I'm actually wrong. 

MEB, if I'm right about this, I want to get you contact with the Zeta. 

First of all, I personally would be reluctant to lynch zeta just because they are zeta. I don't really see that role as being alignment indicative. In the comics, zimmy wasn't evil at all, so I don't think the GMs would have any reason to make the role of a fixed alignment, despite it's dangers.

Also, I'm really not sure we want MEB and zeta to contact each other. If MEB is evil, that could be really bad. I am surprised that your first thought is to enable MEB to contorl the effects of zeta, without considering the dangers of this.

 

49 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

@Drake Marshall, I don't know that I like the fact that you don't appear to be reevaluating your initial list, given the information that's been generated thus far. Why aren't you doing so?

I'm still not certain about Burnt. She's continued to act suspiciously inn my PM, but I don't think she'd be so blatant about it if she were evil. At some point, I'd support her lynch if only for my peace of mind - I don't like ruling someone out on the grounds of something being "too obvious", but I don't think she'd generate much information, and am more suspicious of other players than her.

I'd like further alignment indicative material from Brightness Radiant, but definitely don't think a lynch is the right way to pursue that this cycle.

I agree that Budgie needs to come further into the spotlight, and think it might be worth making clear to her that I might be prepared to vote on her next cycle if she continues to hide. 

I'd contribute suspicion of Lopen for his reading of me. I'm paying in a pretty similar way to the style I used in QF25 (and LG36), and Lopen was consistently sceptical of me. I don't think I've done as well as I could have in making it obvious that I'm a villager, and yet Lopen is reading me as village, rather than uncertain. It's a small thing, but I think there's a chance that he's saying this because he knows my alignment.

In response to your question. It's possible that my list could use updating. And maybe I should have put in some time to do so. Maybe I will share a brand new list of reads for this cycle. That sort of thing certainly moves the game forward.

That said, I decided to just use that list because I believe it is still mostly relevant. I'd probably make a few changes, but a lot of the reasoning still holds, in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

  @randuir, my own thoughts on your points are as follows:

I don't think participation in the Ecthelion lynch is alignment indicative. He was a villager, and so a plausible target for eliminators, but I found him suspicious enough to vote on, and so it's not unreasonable to think that others did. I still need to look through Drake's posts again, but stand by voting to save him - I've got a stronger village sense from him recently than I had in the first half of D2. One possibility that we ought to consider, though, is that the eliminators have Gillitie roles, and so had a vote manipulator, which meant a tie was a safe place to be, and ensured Drake would be "soft-cleared" in this manner. Equally, it would be early for the eliminators to tip their hand like that, and is nothing more than speculation. 

Randuir, you mention that your retraction was because of DA's vote, and use that as justification, thinking that "something was going on". At this point, we hadn't had the opportunity to communicate with Forest players, so I'm slightly confused as to what collusion you think could have taken place. Would you expound upon this further, please?

Sure. First of all, there's a power on both sides of the fence that allows for day-time PM's, so we can't actually rule out that there has been some communication between forest people on both sides of the fence. I also wasn't sure how much attention DA had been paying to the court thread. It could quite well be that he'd seen something that made him pretty sure Ecth was village, and therefore a fair target to vote on for a forest player. Therefore, his vote made me worry that he'd either spotted something I hadn't, or that he'd had a day-time PM with the elims on our side that fed him some information.

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@randuir, would you explain why believing Brightness' comment makes her village? It's entirely possible to sign up for a game for that reason, and then turn out to be evil. As I've said, I'm wary of Clanky, and think his alignment is tied to that Lopen. 

Well, I don't think she'd have supported an elim attack on crimsn if she had been evil, and though the rest of the elim team might have just over-ruled that, I haven't seen anything to suggest that crimsn was a high enough kill priority to risk discord within the elim team. That is assuming that Crimsn was the elim kill, of course, but I can't see why the elims would attack someone in the Zeta zone (if that was even possible).

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Agreed on Budgie, as set out above. Would you clarify your point on me? I'm not quite clear on what you're saying here.

Right, so in D2 I'd listed a slight village read on you, mostly because you where working to drive discussion. I remember someone making a remark that that wasn't necessarily alignment indicative, but I can't find that comment right now. However, I do think you'd probably be trying to drive discussion if you felt it necessary for the good of the game, even if you where an elim, so I moved you aback towards Neutral. 

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I can see arguments for lynching Flash, Lopen and Burnt, but am less certain on Shqueeves. I don't remember their posting anything alignment indicative (although I suppose their limited posting might be alignment indicative in itself). If you've got time, I'd like to see your actual thoughts on each of these players, though.

I've already posted those thoughts (though I'll make them more easily readable in the future, following Elbereth's suggestion). The group of 4 I came up with where mostly the result of  process of elimination.

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Randuir, I agree that Flash is pretty likely to be an eliminator, and think this raises an interesting question. Is it worth lynching Flash? I don't know that at this stage he poses any danger to us, and don't think he'll reveal terribly much information. What would be more interesting is keeping him alive, and watching how he interacts with other players. In AG3, I caught Wilson very early on in my analysis - Nyali made a slip up, and referred to a "second" WGG, incriminating Wilson. It was incredibly useful to go through the rest of the game as I was catching up knowing the identity of an eliminator, and it allowed me to identify Hero as another eliminator (sadly, I collapsed towards the end of the game, and was unable to actually get my suspicions in thread, but you can verify this with Wilson). It's clearly a risk, and would be less useful given Flash would know he was being watched. Given I don't think his death would give us much information at present, and there are other suspicious players who would give us a great deal more information, I think it's worth the risk that we wait too late to lynch Flash. Ultimately, we could get a string of incredibly useful mislynches right up to lynch or lose, and then use that information to get the entire elimaintor team. Whilst an extreme scenario, and one I hope doesn't happen, I hope it helps illustrate that information is more useful to us than a dead eliminator whose death won't reveal information.

I guess I do see your point here about not lynching Flash yet. My main problem is that I don't really have much to go on for my other suspects. However, You might have a point in that lynching Flash wouldn't exactly help solve that information issue.

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I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on Lopen.

If you go back to the post you quoted and press F5, my thoughts on Lopen right now should magically appear :P

Edit:

vote tally:

 

Drake(0): Flash

Lopen(2): Drake, Orlok

Elbereth(1): Lopen

Flash(1): Randuir

Edited by randuir
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8 hours ago, Flash said:

You know, I had no idea I repeated myself so much. But this also isn't the first time I've done that. May I also note that often my being village is part of my train of thought? I understand your suspicion based upon it, but context is important. I'm not just like "content... oh and btw dont forget that I'm village!" That would be awful. 

Anyway, i didn't really get much sleep last night, as I was thinking. drake . Next I would like to point out massive suspicion of Lopen based on his vote on Elbereth. Elbereth, to me, is one of the strongest confirmed villagers due to the whole "no CC thing," even if I don't personally agree entirely with her opinions. I don't think shes done anything worth voting her for. So, FoS on you Lopen for that. 

But i would also like to point out: yesterday I complained about not being able to lynch active or inactive people. Obviously the correct route is to lynch SEMI active. Semi active, in my opinion, is the perfect place for the elims to hide. 

I also have a major piece of information to share, which might put me at risk of instantly being on the hit list of the elims. I'm still thinking about whether I should share it or not, but I probably will. 

I think it was Rand that pointed this out already, but I feel like El would likely post that regardless of alignment, so I really don't agree how that makes her one of the strongest confirmed villagers.

3 hours ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

 

I'd contribute suspicion of Lopen for his reading of me. I'm paying in a pretty similar way to the style I used in QF25 (and LG36), and Lopen was consistently sceptical of me. I don't think I've done as well as I could have in making it obvious that I'm a villager, and yet Lopen is reading me as village, rather than uncertain. It's a small thing, but I think there's a chance that he's saying this because he knows my alignment.

Lopen, I really don't like the part of this post to which I've added emphasis. It reads to me like you've already made your mind up on pursuing a lynch of El, despite your argument being that she hasn't given you anything alignment indicative, and that you intend to make a case for lynching her, rather than trying to work out whether she is suspicious. Why are you so set on lynching her?

Would you justify your view on BR?

 

I think Clanky may well be evil if Lopen does turn out to be village, but at the moment think Lopen is more likely to be evil than Clanky, and so Lopen has my vote for now.

I don't really know what to say about that first point. I'm just getting a better read on you than I did in QF25, which hopefully means you're a villager. :P

I pretty much have? Because I have better reads on other players, and the rest are inactive. It might be a weird way to go about it, but so far I haven't gotten any strong eliminator reads on players. Still, I did mention I'd take a look at the other top candidates for the lynch as well, so I'm not just going to ignore everyone else to go after El. Also, I'm pretty certain that even if I completely pulled apart each of El's posts, I wouldn't see anything that would change my mind.

The thing about BR is that I feel like I can read her a little better than others, so if I don't have a solid read on her, I'm inclined to just give her more time because I have more confidence in being able to figure out her alignment than for others, who I'd be okay with lynching if I can't get a solid read on(like Elbereth).

2 hours ago, Elbereth said:

 

:( That's kind of hard to defend against... >> 

Also, are we back to the beginning again? With the you-can't-read-me? :P 

Not much of actual use was discussed in the doc, except who each person was (since it was anonymous). The hints were essentially my asking Aonar whether it was possible to communicate outside the dimension (or a similar question, since I can't remember what I actually asked), and he said that it could be theoretically possible depending on what roles were there with me. (No roleclaims were exchanged, which made that particular hint rather useless.) 
No, my alignment hasn't changed, and the attack was by a robot claiming that I was the reason "she" was dead. People who read the comics? Help? 

 

Sorry. >.< That's why I said I'd make a better case, because it's annoying when a vote doesn't have reasoning to defend against.

It's hit-or-miss with you still. :P

Here's something that could be suspicious! In the rules, it says there's a 20% chance to be attacked OR change alignment. Not both. So if you were a villager, then wouldn't you be more likely to point that out so that no one would worry about you having changed to eliminator? (Of course, if it's possible to be attacked and change alignment, nevermind, but that's not how I interpreted that rule...Aonar? A little help?)

2 hours ago, Drake Marshall said:

I wouldn't see that I am going after you solely for bandwagonning. Although I will note that "I'm allowed to genuinely agree with other people, aren't I" is a pretty universal defense from those who are accused of bandwagonning.

That said. I think you for both giving a defense and casting a vote. Both of those are useful for the game.

I am a little confused at your choice of Elbereth though. She is, by your process of elimination, a fair candidate... And yet you don't really offer a reason to lynch her, specifically. You leave yourself open to hop on a different lynch later in the cycle. And you don't really talk about the implications of lynching a dragonslayer. The more paranoid side of me wonders if you are gunning to replace a village dragonslayer with an eliminator.

So. While I'd be foolish to say I have no doubts. My vote stays where it is right now.

 

First of all, I personally would be reluctant to lynch zeta just because they are zeta. I don't really see that role as being alignment indicative. In the comics, zimmy wasn't evil at all, so I don't think the GMs would have any reason to make the role of a fixed alignment, despite it's dangers.

Also, I'm really not sure we want MEB and zeta to contact each other. If MEB is evil, that could be really bad. I am surprised that your first thought is to enable MEB to contorl the effects of zeta, without considering the dangers of this.

 

In response to your question. It's possible that my list could use updating. And maybe I should have put in some time to do so. Maybe I will share a brand new list of reads for this cycle. That sort of thing certainly moves the game forward.

That said, I decided to just use that list because I believe it is still mostly relevant. I'd probably make a few changes, but a lot of the reasoning still holds, in my opinion.

Am I supposed to give a unique defense for a standard accusation? :P I could just point out that bandwagoning isn't really alignment indicative, since villagers do it all the time. I'm not exactly known for bandwagoning, but I feel like I do it more than most. >>

I left myself open to lynch El or Randuir, which...isn't really leaving myself open?

Implications of lynching a Dragonslayer. Hm. I have to admit that I hadn't entirely thought through that. Are there implications? Obviously, killing a village one and replacing them with an eliminator one, but in this case, I think the Dragonslayer is already an eliminator, soooo.

How exactly would I go about influencing Stink to choose who I want to choose? I don't think I'd ever attempt to influence Stink to do something, since he'd probably do the exact opposite of what I wanted. Unless you think I'm just hoping he'd choose an eliminator by himself.

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You are indeed reading that rule correctly. You cannot die due to Zeta's innate effects at the same time as your alignment is changed by them. This does not include actions that were made to kill by the power.

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I'm not entirely certain why any of you are sure I'm evil. But if you want to lynch me, be my guest. I knew it would be coming sooner or later, whether due to my continued inability to not look suspicious even when I have no reason to look suspicious, or just because of the whole 40% thing. 

Now I see both sides of the argument about CC. Both make sense. And I am interested in developing a different way to deal with it. I'll think about that tonight. 

I'll do a face palm in not even considering that the MEB could be evil. Thanks Drake for pointing that out. I originally got the idea of immeadietly sticking the Zeta with the MEB from a PM with burnt, and hadn't given the idea much more thought besides "oh that's a good plan." 

I'm also even more confused by the suspicion on Elbereth. Elb is one of my strongest village reads besides Rand. What has she done at all to seem guilty? That makes me more suspicious of you Lopen, as I think you might be trying to cast doubt onto more solid villagers. I'll go through your posts myself (I dont like relying on others analysis), and determine whether you might be a better target than i thought drake was yesterday. Now of course I could be wrong about Elb, but my gut tells me I'm not. 

Also I PMed Meta during the night... no response. 

Edited by Flash
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14 minutes ago, Aonar Faileas said:

You are indeed reading that rule correctly. You cannot die due to Zeta's innate effects at the same time as your alignment is changed by them. This does not include actions that were made to kill by the power.

Cool, thanks. I'm not sure how much I really think it's suspicious that Elbereth didn't mention it, since she might not have realized that was the case, or she just doesn't care about reassuring us. :P

Anyways, there's 2 things I'm thinking that could point to Elbereth being village. (I know, I was supposed to be making a case for why she's evil, but oh well. This wasn't really my intent, because I totally was willing to lynch her, but voting on El got some players talking about her, and other players reads on El are actually more helpful for me getting a read on her than her posts are I think. :P)

First is that Rand put her as Neutral, and excluded her from being a target for the lynch purely based on Stink giving her the role of Dragonslayer. That seemed weird to me, since that doesn't exclude her from being evil, which made me think they could be teammates. Now that I think more about it, I feel like he probably would have mentioned she could still be evil if they were teammates, in case either of them were killed at some point and he didn't want to implicate her.

Next, Drake's last post, where he says he's confused by me going after Elbereth, and he says he's paranoid I'm trying to lynch a village Dragonslayer to replace them with an eliminator one. This kind of reads to me like he knows El is village(otherwise, why not consider her as a potential lynch? has she done anything to make you think she's village?), and also that he's considered killing the Dragonslayer to replace them with an eliminator.

Drake's last 2 posts have really given me strong eliminator vibes, so I'm gonna go back to voting Drake. Elbereth

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5 hours ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

@A Budgie, whilst it's great to see you RPing, do you have any thoughts on alignment? Who are you suspicious of? What do you think of the candidates with votes on them this cycle? You've been in the Zeta dimension with both El and Lopen - how did they act in there?

Mate, I did already post an analysis. It just wasn't very big, because last night I didn't have the time to go back and scroll through everything. I'll try to come up with more, as I've already said repeatedly.
Sorry if I sound salty, but I'm tired, busy, and still trying to catch up with this game. Hopefully I won't get tagged as an eliminator just for being salty.

Okay, so some of you have been asking about the Zeta zone. It wasn't really that interesting, unfortunately- just a doc where we could speak. Most people decided to be all mysterious and 'ooh can't guess who I am,' which I certainly couldn't, since I don't know most of those people on there. Not much else happened on there. We just talked, and then when the time was up we left. I didn't get a new alignment, which I'm a little dissapointed at. Would've been interesting.

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Well. I need to vote. <_<

In re reading the thread I become just even more confused in terms of my reads. Honestly sometimes I wonder why finding elims can't just be easy. (I know there are a thousand answers to that question, all legitimate. Still doesn't make it less frustrating). 

lopen. . I'm not sure I'm a fan of you jumping from elbereth to drake like that. I also feel like you've been sort of flying a little bit under the radar. Normally I get pretty accurate, strong village reads on you. Not so in this game, and that makes me wonder if it's because you're an elim. 

Now I'm getting off for the night. I'm going to contemplate upon another way to get people to be more active. 

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Ack that was a lot to catch up on heh

Okay y'all I can't promise to be very active until tomorrow afternoon, cuz I'm visiting one of my sisters. Just wanted to give a heads up.

That being said, I'll still try to get on when I can, but no large wall posts for the rest of this cycle. :P

Forgive me for not clarifying better my thoughts on Drake and Clanky, but tbh I'm really confused by Drake and I wanted to see more from Clanky so I didn't vote on either of them. I figured I'd wait to see others reactions to my posts and what everyone was thinking this cycle before I made up my mind.

I can't decide who I think is actually an elim, but I do think there's some good combos that could provide some insight to other player's alignments if one was to be lynched:

1. I could see a Drake/Orlok team, considering Orlok broke the tie in favor of Ecth and not Drake and Drake made himself look less elimy by keeping the tie on himself. I could see them doing this if they have a vote manip power and Orlok wanted to look like he wasn't aware of the vote manip power. *shrugs (yes I'm tin foiling here heh) Anyways if this was a combo elim team, I'd say that Lopen is probably village and vice versa if Lopen flips elim, because they're interactions leave me feeling like they're not on the same team.

2. Randuir/Lopen I could see as a team even though they've both "voiced" suspicion of one another, they haven't actually voted on each other iirc. Rand even asked me about Lopen in pm, but I could see that as elim!Rand trying to find out my thoughts on his teammate who's my brother irl. :ph34r: I feel like Clanky, especially wouldn't be on the same side as this duo.

3. As for the others they haven't been as vocal so I could see a lot of them flipping either way. As for Flash, I tend to ignore his "I'm village!" tones cuz he does that when he's village. :P

Wew....that was all of the top of my head so sorry if it was confusing. I think for now Drake has given me enough flip flopping vibes and has had enough interactions with other players for me to go back and analyze once I know his alignment so that's where I'll place my vote.

 

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49 minutes ago, Flash said:

Well. I need to vote. <_<

In re reading the thread I become just even more confused in terms of my reads. Honestly sometimes I wonder why finding elims can't just be easy. (I know there are a thousand answers to that question, all legitimate. Still doesn't make it less frustrating). 

lopen. . I'm not sure I'm a fan of you jumping from elbereth to drake like that. I also feel like you've been sort of flying a little bit under the radar. Normally I get pretty accurate, strong village reads on you. Not so in this game, and that makes me wonder if it's because you're an elim. 

Now I'm getting off for the night. I'm going to contemplate upon another way to get people to be more active. 

Well, it was pretty obvious no one was going to join me on El, not to mention I don't want to lynch her anymore and think it would be somewhat unfair of me to try and lynch her without giving some reasoning besides the fact that I don't have a good read on her, I don't really agree with Rand about you, and I'm suspicious of Drake. Admittedly, there is some self preservation involved with voting Drake, since I do think there's a chance I'll get some support, but I honestly am suspicious of him, so it's not just me trying to survive. I guess it's pointless to respond since you're gone, but I still wanted to. It might help others understand my point of view at least.

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1 hour ago, BrightnessRadiant said:

Ack that was a lot to catch up on heh

Okay y'all I can't promise to be very active until tomorrow afternoon, cuz I'm visiting one of my sisters. Just wanted to give a heads up.

That being said, I'll still try to get on when I can, but no large wall posts for the rest of this cycle. :P

Forgive me for not clarifying better my thoughts on Drake and Clanky, but tbh I'm really confused by Drake and I wanted to see more from Clanky so I didn't vote on either of them. I figured I'd wait to see others reactions to my posts and what everyone was thinking this cycle before I made up my mind.

I can't decide who I think is actually an elim, but I do think there's some good combos that could provide some insight to other player's alignments if one was to be lynched:

1. I could see a Drake/Orlok team, considering Orlok broke the tie in favor of Ecth and not Drake and Drake made himself look less elimy by keeping the tie on himself. I could see them doing this if they have a vote manip power and Orlok wanted to look like he wasn't aware of the vote manip power. *shrugs (yes I'm tin foiling here heh) Anyways if this was a combo elim team, I'd say that Lopen is probably village and vice versa if Lopen flips elim, because they're interactions leave me feeling like they're not on the same team.

2. Randuir/Lopen I could see as a team even though they've both "voiced" suspicion of one another, they haven't actually voted on each other iirc. Rand even asked me about Lopen in pm, but I could see that as elim!Rand trying to find out my thoughts on his teammate who's my brother irl. :ph34r: I feel like Clanky, especially wouldn't be on the same side as this duo.

3. As for the others they haven't been as vocal so I could see a lot of them flipping either way. As for Flash, I tend to ignore his "I'm village!" tones cuz he does that when he's village. :P

Wew....that was all of the top of my head so sorry if it was confusing. I think for now Drake has given me enough flip flopping vibes and has had enough interactions with other players for me to go back and analyze once I know his alignment so that's where I'll place my vote.

 

If my tie-making was a sneaky gambit, it would be because I knew who the MEB was. That would be a most delightful ploy, and generally an excellent wounded wildebeast gambit (seriously, can that be a new term? the wounded wildebeast gambit could be when you create a tie you know you can rig due to vote manipulations :P).

It wouldn't be because Orlok was my team mate, since Orlok was the one who put me in danger of being lynched in the first place. That's would be quite a few layers of IKYK, if we were going to play it that way, and if we were team mates it would have been vastly easier if Orlok never accused me in the first place.

That said, I don't know who the MEB is, and I'd ask that they hold off on interfering with tied votes, if they are a villager. I think that would be counterproductive at this stage.

And I'd be down to do a tied vote. But, seeing as I actually really do suspect Lopen, I'm not going to be moving my vote around this time.

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8 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

It wouldn't be because Orlok was my team mate, since Orlok was the one who put me in danger of being lynched in the first place. That's would be quite a few layers of IKYK, if we were going to play it that way, and if we were team mates it would have been vastly easier if Orlok never accused me in the first place.

You should be honoured that I suspect you of being so smart then. :P

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Okay, well, I don't usually do this, but in this case I think it should help you all understand my actions up to this point, so here's a public roleclaim. I'm Zeta. When the game began, I didn't know how I was aligned. My role wasn't colored, so I figured I was neutral. Only when my ability triggered did Aonar tell me I was village aligned, so before that, I was playing fairly passively. Budgie and Burnt knew I was Zeta, because I claimed to both of them N1. Burnt because why not, and Budgie because they're new and I wanted to help them be more involved. I imagine this is why they both said they're reading me as village, because at the time I told them I was neutral(I thought I was).

I have been honest with my opinions in case anyone's wondering. Anyways, hopefully that clears some things up.

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9 minutes ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Okay, well, I don't usually do this, but in this case I think it should help you all understand my actions up to this point, so here's a public roleclaim. I'm Zeta. When the game began, I didn't know how I was aligned. My role wasn't colored, so I figured I was neutral. Only when my ability triggered did Aonar tell me I was village aligned, so before that, I was playing fairly passively. Budgie and Burnt knew I was Zeta, because I claimed to both of them N1. Burnt because why not, and Budgie because they're new and I wanted to help them be more involved. I imagine this is why they both said they're reading me as village, because at the time I told them I was neutral(I thought I was).

I have been honest with my opinions in case anyone's wondering. Anyways, hopefully that clears some things up.

Well. This is interesting. I can believe that you're Zeta, as that seems like a very simple thing to test. My issue is believing that you're village aligned. Would you give us the details of your win condition, and your win condition as laid out at the start of the game? I struggle to believe that you'd start the game without a win condition.

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5 minutes ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Okay, well, I don't usually do this, but in this case I think it should help you all understand my actions up to this point, so here's a public roleclaim. I'm Zeta. When the game began, I didn't know how I was aligned. My role wasn't colored, so I figured I was neutral. Only when my ability triggered did Aonar tell me I was village aligned, so before that, I was playing fairly passively. Budgie and Burnt knew I was Zeta, because I claimed to both of them N1. Burnt because why not, and Budgie because they're new and I wanted to help them be more involved. I imagine this is why they both said they're reading me as village, because at the time I told them I was neutral(I thought I was).

I have been honest with my opinions in case anyone's wondering. Anyways, hopefully that clears some things up.

Hmm... Well that changes some things.

Well, if you are telling the truth, I suppose my analysis was actually somewhat accurate. Since you believed you were neutral, you were often acting in the name of self preservation.

Still, I have some questions about your explanation, if you wouldn't mind answering them.

Why wouldn't you ask the GMs what your alignment was? That seems like a really important game detail. I mean, from my GM PM, I'm pretty sure that none of them were color-coded. But if you were uncertain about your alignment, why not ask?

Also, why exactly did you learn your alignment once your ability triggered? In what context did your alignment as a villager come up?

Also, another point of concern... If MEB is evil, your claiming has put the village in some danger, as they could now cause a shadow dimension event every cycle, until one of you dies. If you are in fact a villager, are you sure that claiming is a good idea?

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32 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

Well. This is interesting. I can believe that you're Zeta, as that seems like a very simple thing to test. My issue is believing that you're village aligned. Would you give us the details of your win condition, and your win condition as laid out at the start of the game? I struggle to believe that you'd start the game without a win condition.

 

28 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

Hmm... Well that changes some things.

Well, if you are telling the truth, I suppose my analysis was actually somewhat accurate. Since you believed you were neutral, you were often acting in the name of self preservation.

Still, I have some questions about your explanation, if you wouldn't mind answering them.

Why wouldn't you ask the GMs what your alignment was? That seems like a really important game detail. I mean, from my GM PM, I'm pretty sure that none of them were color-coded. But if you were uncertain about your alignment, why not ask?

Also, why exactly did you learn your alignment once your ability triggered? In what context did your alignment as a villager come up?

Also, another point of concern... If MEB is evil, your claiming has put the village in some danger, as they could now cause a shadow dimension event every cycle, until one of you dies. If you are in fact a villager, are you sure that claiming is a good idea?

Yeah, so basically what happened was I thought that since I was a unique role, and the fact that my role wasn't colored, I was some kind of neutral. I did ask Aonar what I was supposed to be doing as soon as I got my role, but he never answered me. I guess he didn't realize I was asking what my goal for the game was and thought it was like, a rhetorical question since I couldn't actually use my ability, so he didn't think it was an actual question. At that point, I kind of felt like I was missing something, so I didn't want to ask the same question again and look like an idiot, but I guess that was just prolonging the inevitable... >>

Anyways, I thought maybe I was just supposed to survive, or that something would happen when my ability triggered. 

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14 minutes ago, TheMightyLopen said:

 

Yeah, so basically what happened was I thought that since I was a unique role, and the fact that my role wasn't colored, I was some kind of neutral. I did ask Aonar what I was supposed to be doing as soon as I got my role, but he never answered me. I guess he didn't realize I was asking what my goal for the game was and thought it was like, a rhetorical question since I couldn't actually use my ability, so he didn't think it was an actual question. At that point, I kind of felt like I was missing something, so I didn't want to ask the same question again and look like an idiot, but I guess that was just prolonging the inevitable... >>

Anyways, I thought maybe I was just supposed to survive, or that something would happen when my ability triggered. 

My apologies, Lopen, but I'm not buying a scenario where you carried on playing the game without knowing your win condition, which makes me wonder why you don't want your win condition known. I'm unlikely to change my vote. I've been awake 16 hours on 3 hours sleep, and don't really trust myself to reevaluate, and think that your action over the last hour are indeed suspicious.

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