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Hemalurgic Surgebinders?

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You can use Hemalurgy to transfer Allomantic and Feruchemichal powers. Could you also use this to transfer certain aspects of surgebinding? If so, what kind of spikes would you use? Would you use gemstones? If you know of any threads that can answer these questions, please tell me. Feel free to tear my theory apart, I am kind of new at this.

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Brandon indicated that it could be used to steal shardblades.

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Hemulurgy can be used Cosmere wide. I'm not sure how it would exactly take place off Scadrial. I'm guessing metal would still be involved though. 

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Yes hemalurgy can be used to steal any magical ability in the Cosmere if you know the right places to spike and have the right intent. We don't know if it always requires metal spikes but I believe it does. 

A few supporting WoBs

Quote

Q: If Hemalurgy can be used to transfer Investiture regardless of the planet, is someone gathering pieces of different Investitures the way Hoid for example got lerasium bead.
A:  Yes. 

Quote

Q: Can spren be pierced by hemalurgic spikes? Will it give some effect?
A: Yes. A spren can be pierced by invested metal…
Q: Could it be spiked?
A: Could a spike be used to give abilities to spren? That’s not going to work really well.
Q: Could you steal from a spren?
A: Yes you could steal the investiture of a spren. Any investiture can be used in a spike if you know what you’re doing. It’s actually not that hard to use one on a spren.
Q: Because I thought you said hemalurgy needs moving blood.
A: It needs, uh, yeah…there are places where spren have more physical form, more tangible form.
Q: The Cognitive Realm?
A: Yeah if you go to the Cognitive Realm on Roshar the spren act differently.
Q: So you could spike in the cognitive realm?
A: Yeah I’ll leave a RAFO with you on that. That’s your fifth one. So there are ways to get any investiture into hemalurgy if you know what you’re doing. But yeah this is not something that would be a common use for hemalurgy. Let’s just say that.
Q: We do not concern ourselves with common uses.
A: Yeah I know you don’t. But yeah hemalurgy, when you’re spiking into somebody you…you’ll see when we get around to it.

Quote

QUESTION

Would a Hemalurgic spike take surges?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Hemalurgy can interact with every one of the magics. I designed it specifically in writing Mistborn for future use. Because some of the magics are so limited by their planet I wanted one that transcended all of them and Hemalurgyis very important to the entire cosmere Its invention is a thing of great power and great danger to the entire cosmere

Quote

ODIUM'S_SHARD

Lastly, less pressingly, do Spirit Points (hemalurgic spots) apply to ever magic system, and through the Cosmere at large? Ie. could Hemalurgy be used to take any other magic systems aspects, and do other magic systems also have these 'Points', such as Body Focuses, that work in similar ways?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Hemalurgy crosses magic systems. You could steal things from people on other worlds, if you knew the right places for the spikes.

 

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24 minutes ago, Tate said:

You can use Hemalurgy to transfer Allomantic and Feruchemichal powers. Could you also use this to transfer certain aspects of surgebinding? If so, what kind of spikes would you use? Would you use gemstones? If you know of any threads that can answer these questions, please tell me. Feel free to tear my theory apart, I am kind of new at this.

The issue with stealing surgebinding is that it's the result of a bond between a person and a spren. 

You could steal the portion of soul that the bond is attached to, but once it's spiked into someone else, your probably going to kill the Spren and just have a summonable Shardblade. 

This WoB doesn't address your question directly, but it makes me think that even if you didn't outright kill the Spren, the bond would degrade and you would lose the ability quickly. 

Spoilered for length and other book content. 

Spoiler

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1174#9

DJARSKUBLAR

So I could be wrong, but a Hemalurgic spike, when you use it and become a savant it does damage to your Spiritweb, right?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes Hemalurgy always hurts you. (I think he was saying that the Hemalurgy itself hurts you more than being a savant, but I'm not sure how to interpret this)

DJARSKUBLAR

So say you go to Roshar and you give somebody a Hemalurgic spike for some Allomantic power, don't care what, and you use it to become a savant. Does that qualify them as 'broken' enough to become a Radiant? As long as they are also following the Ideals to attract a spren.

BRANDON SANDERSON

So becoming a Radiant is a spectrum of terminologies. It... probably, but you would have to find a Radiant who would, or a spren who would be willing to touch that, okay? It's going to drive them back.

DJARSKUBLAR

So would it also affect your probability of becoming an Elantrian?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yeah it would affect your ability to become anything else, yes.

DJARSKUBLAR

Okay, so would it be a positive effect, negative effect...? Because I was like, it gives you cracks in your Spiritweb.

BRANDON SANDERSON

It does give you cracks in your Spiritweb.

DJARSKUBLAR

So it's easier for Investiture to get in. Does it make it easier for other Investitures to get in?

BRANDON SANDERSON

It would make it... yes. It's going to drive spren away. So what it's really going to make easier for, there, is spren and Investiture that doesn't care.

DJARSKUBLAR

Okay, so Investiture doesn't care but spren do.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Investiture might care depending on if it's part of a Shard-- if it has intent and things like this.

DJARSKUBLAR

So it might let Stormlight in easier than a Breath, type thing.

BRANDON SANDERSON

I'm saying it might let Odium in easier than Syl. Because Syl would care, and Odium would not care.

DJARSKUBLAR

Okay cool.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Alright, so it could be a really bad thing, is what I'm trying to say to you.

DJARSKUBLAR

Yeah that's cool. I just want to know more about gold too. Gold Allomancy too. Because Miles was doing some funky stuff.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Miles was doing some funky stuff.

 

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Interesting point here... could you make a spike out of a gemstone and use it for Hemalurgy? And in that case, could you trap a spren inside of it.

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12 hours ago, Calderis said:

 

This WoB doesn't address your question directly, but it makes me think that even if you didn't outright kill the Spren, the bond would degrade and you would lose the ability quickly. 

 

You might be able to trap a spren inside of it, then you could transfer the spren and the power of surgebinding. This might make it last longer

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Just now, Tate said:

 

You might be able to trap a spren inside of it, then you could transfer the spren and the power of surgebinding. This might make it last longer

If a spike is able to contain the entirety if a spren, I agree, that spike would create an artificial bond that the Spren has no choice in. 

It would be completely unregulated by the Oaths. That's kind of frightening.

We don't know if a spike can hold a full spren though. Hemalurgic spikes normally contain a fairly small amount of investiture. It's just an important bit. 

Spoilered for length 

Spoiler

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1047#12

HEROWANNABE

I’m curious, I’ve got a list of various cosmere bits of metal, and I wonder if you would rank them from like 1 to 10 or easy to difficult on how hard it would be to steelpush on them?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Okay.

HEROWANNABE

So, like metal inside a person’s body?

BRANDON SANDERSON

It depends on how strong the investiture in them is.

HEROWANNABE

Is that going to be the answer for all of these?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Probably. :)

HEROWANNABE

How about a spike charged with Hemalurgy? Not in a person.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Not in a person? It depends on how strong—yeah. A spike is moderately—in the realm of these sorts of things—moderately easy to push on, because a spike does not rip off very much investiture. Only enough to short circuit the soul, and it loses that over time. So I would put that at the bottom—with the top being very hard—to be one of the easier things.

HEROWANNABE

How about a metalmind? A feruchemy metalmind that is "full."

BRANDON SANDERSON

That is going to be middle of the realm. Generally easier than, for instance, a shardblade, which is going to be very hard.

AARADEL

But a shardblade isn’t actual metal. Ish?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Ish. Is Lerasium a metal? Yeah.

HEROWANNABE

So would that be the same for Shardplate, too?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Shardplate and blade are very hard. Blade is probably going to be harder. [...]

HEROWANNABE

Halfshard? Like a halfshard shield?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Halfshard shield is going to be in moderate.

HEROWANNABE

Nightblood? I imagine is going to be very difficult.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Very hard. Of all the things you’ve listed, he’s the hardest. Far beyond even a shardblade.

HEROWANNABE

Far beyond metal inside a person?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, depending on how invested the person is.

AARADEL

If someone was invested as much as Nightblood I’m pretty sure it’s going to be very difficult.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, for instance, the Godking, at the end, with all of those Breaths. Pushing on something inside of him? Getting through all that? Gonna be REAL hard. Average person on Scadrial? You’ve seen how hard that is. A drab? Much easier.

HEROWANNABE

That was actually going to be my next one- No, sorry, not a drab, a Lifeless.

BRANDON SANDERSON

A Lifeless. Lifeless are kinda weird, because they’ve had their soul leave, but then they’ve had a replacement stuck in, in the form of Breath, which puts them in a really weird position compared to a Drab, which has had part of their investiture ripped away, but the majority of it remains. So anyway, I’m going to give you one more. Pick your favorite.

HEROWANNABE

Okay, a soul-stamped piece of metal.

BRANDON SANDERSON

A soul-stamped piece of metal is going to be on the lower, easier side. Not a lot of investiture going on in a soulstamp.

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Interesting... I wonder if the spike holding stormlight would make a difference. Would it make it easier to hold the investiture and spren, or make it harder?

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2 hours ago, Tate said:

Interesting... I wonder if the spike holding stormlight would make a difference. Would it make it easier to hold the investiture and spren, or make it harder?

I suspect that if a spike were somehow Invested with Stormlight, it would already be  closer to "full", and make it harder to hold the additional investiture of a spren or Surgebinding abilities.

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