Most Overrated Character

[Farnsworth]

ADOLIN!!!!

Look, I get why people think he's interesting, and he is a great guy (especially when he killed Sadeas). However, I just don't get the same vibe of crazily-developed-character from him as from others. Sure, he's interesting, but nowhere near as interesting as most other characters, especially for all the hype he gets.

[StormyQueen]

I've always found Lift really overrated. To me, her character was just really immature and childish. Another one I find particularly overrated is (please don't kill me) Adolin. While he seems like a cool guy and all, he never seemed to have the same depth as other characters. Heaps of people seem to want him to become a radiant, but I kind of don't thin we need another from the family. He's a cool guy, but I don't find him that cool.

On 27/07/2017 at 8:16 AM, Extesian said:

STICK 

My love for stick is far more as a joke than anything else, the fandom meme, but it probably has gotten a bit out of hand.

On 27/07/2017 at 11:40 PM, maxal said:

I almost said Jasnah as well, but I wasn't sure if she would qualify as over-rated since Brandon has kept hammering over and over again on how important she will eventually be. However, if we are to add in characters over-rated because of their personality as @thegatorgirl00 suggested within her inspiring post and future plot as you are suggesting, then yes, I would probably also put Jasnah in there. My reasons are I never really thought she was important and she didn't hit any particular vibe all through WoK. I read her as a supporting character, I still consider her a supporting character and I will consider her such up until she becomes something else which, according to Brandon, will happen in book 6. In the mean time, I do think Jasnah's importance within the current narrative is over-rated.

Jasnah being praised for being an atheist is actually one of the reasons why I am not fond of her character. This will sound very odd, but where I live, being atheist is, well, the de-facto line of belief. Very few people have faith, very few people believe and, more importantly, very few people actually care about religion one way or another except when other people's religion starts to take up too much public space (never said we were perfect, but religion really isn't something people will talk about, the long-lasting religion thread in the General Discussion sub would never happen here). In shorts, Jasnah being a non-believer is not a characteristic I find special nor innovative nor anything: I find it normal. Worst, I'll admit I consider all characters I read to be atheists up until they start not being atheists, which is why the one thing which many readers love about Jasnah is the one thing I just don't find special. 

But I know, I am odd, I live in an odd place in the world.

I think that in a lot of countries (particularly America if what I have been told is true) being religious is the norm. And, even if it isn't everywhere, I think it can be an admirable trait in Jasnah because of the setting she is in, where she is seen as a heretic and constantly has to stand up for her beliefs, even though they are incredibly controversial.

[+Extesian]

 My hatred of Stick is just a joke in response to everyone else's joke-love of him I actually loved him when I first read the book, but I like to be contrary 

[Ammanas]

@Extesian When I first read WoR I really didn't think anything about stick. I only realized he had a cult following when I joined the shard

@StormyQueen Finally someone that agrees with me about Lift! I just find it really hard to relate to her bc I have never been a 12 year old girl and she comes off as very silly and immature in my opinion. I hope she changes as the series progresses.

[the winter system]

3 minutes ago, Ammanas said:

@Extesian When I first read WoR I really didn't think anything about stick. I only realized he had a cult following when I joined the shard

@StormyQueen Finally someone that agrees with me about Lift! I just find it really hard to relate to her bc I have never been a 12 year old girl and she comes off as very silly and immature in my opinion. I hope she changes as the series progresses.

She's 13, actually.

sorry, continue onwards, I just have to nitpick that. Lift has gotta be my personal favorite (except for everyone else) because of her set of morals. If I was a KR, I'd be an Edgedancer. But I understand not everyone feels that way about her.

[Ammanas]

4 minutes ago, winter devotion said:

She's 13, actually.

sorry, continue onwards, I just have to nitpick that. Lift has gotta be my personal favorite (except for everyone else) because of her set of morals. If I was a KR, I'd be an Edgedancer. But I understand not everyone feels that way about her.

No worries I put out wrong information and appreciate the correction! I think it speaks to the skill of the writer that he can speak to so many people. Some of my favorite characters are some peoples least and vice versa.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Ammanas

[the winter system]

Just now, Ammanas said:

No worries I put out wrong information and appreciate the correction! I think it speaks to the skill of the writer that he can speak to so many people. Some of my favorite characters are some people least and vice versa.

I know, right? I love characters like Shallan because of her creativity and the fact I draw a lot as well, but other people see her as less interesting: it's interesting too see why!

[maxal]

15 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

@maxal I am okay with whichever interpretation. Personally, I had the Toaster Retribution interpretation in mind (obviously, since I am Toaster Retribution) but I'm okay with your idea of it too. I still think that main characters can be overrated, however. If you find the main character to be bland or boring, the role the person in question has in the story shouldn't matter. If I think that Kylo Ren is a better crafted and more complex character than Luke Skywalker, then I will also be of the opinion that Kylo deserves more discussion and praise. The role a character has in the story does not affect how well-written or interesting they are. However, I doubt that any of us will change our opinions on this, so unless you want to discuss this more, we will just have to agree to disagree, I guess. And as I said, I think that both versions of overrated works in this thread :-)

As long as we all agree on the interpretation, then it works for me too. As for main protagonist, I think it comes down to which character we find the most interesting. In your example, you find Kylo Ren to be more interesting than Luke, hence you feel Luke is over-rated. I would say this is akin to demanding a change of focus into the story. It would be the same as myself saying I find Adolin more interesting than Kaladin (and I do), hence Kaladin is over-rated, the story would be more to my tastes if the focus was more centered on Adolin. I don't know if this goes into the over-rated character or not or if it is fair to say it. I am unsure it is a matter of opinion, it is just rather odd to me, so I think I will have to ponder on it some more.

9 hours ago, Figberts said:

ADOLIN!!!!

Look, I get why people think he's interesting, and he is a great guy (especially when he killed Sadeas). However, I just don't get the same vibe of crazily-developed-character from him as from others. Sure, he's interesting, but nowhere near as interesting as most other characters, especially for all the hype he gets.

I knew someone would eventually say Adolin. I called it out on page 1  I would however argue Adolin doesn't get the crazy developed vibe as other characters because he doesn't have enough page time. The Adolin fans have been advocating ever since the release of WoR that Adolin ought to get a bigger story arc in order to get this development. 

This being said, I do agree the hype over Adolin has been a tad overdone. It goes with the fact he currently stands as one of the least predictable character and many see him as the breath of fresh air after having read Kaladin for two books. In shorts, Adolin is different than Kaladin who is basically your generic fantasy hero, but yeah, his popularity far exceeds his importance within the story both present and future.

5 hours ago, StormyQueen said:

I've always found Lift really overrated. To me, her character was just really immature and childish. Another one I find particularly overrated is (please don't kill me) Adolin. While he seems like a cool guy and all, he never seemed to have the same depth as other characters. Heaps of people seem to want him to become a radiant, but I kind of don't thin we need another from the family. He's a cool guy, but I don't find him that cool.

My love for stick is far more as a joke than anything else, the fandom meme, but it probably has gotten a bit out of hand.

I think that in a lot of countries (particularly America if what I have been told is true) being religious is the norm. And, even if it isn't everywhere, I think it can be an admirable trait in Jasnah because of the setting she is in, where she is seen as a heretic and constantly has to stand up for her beliefs, even though they are incredibly controversial.

Why would I kill you? I said I expected people to say Adolin. He is over-rated when it comes to his importance to the story just as I feel Jasnah is over-rated for hers. People want Adolin to get character development and his own story arc: many of us just feel him eventually becoming a Radiant would make the best story arc for him. The alternatives just aren't as interesting and, besides, it is kind of odd if the whole family is chosen, except Adolin. The author will have to come up with a strong rational to justify it because we know sprens will choose all members of a family if they can. So why not him? It needs to be explained, at some point.

Religious themes typically don't get to me as much as other themes. I see them as a requirement as all fantasy have them, but I don't particularly enjoy them. I prefer books which are religion free, but they are practically nonexistent within fantasy. Brandon, at least, isn't preachy, which I appreciate.

Edited July 29, 2017 by maxal

[Passion]

I gotta say the character who irritates me the most is by far rrenerin...it looks like he's supposed to be a nerdy nobody who's supposed  to really be much deeper but i haven't seen anything deep about him. I keep on thinkingdid I miss a chapter where brandon really explored his situation and developed his personality because it feels like he's supposed to be more than meets the eye

[maxal]

6 hours ago, Passion said:

I gotta say the character who irritates me the most is by far rrenerin...it looks like he's supposed to be a nerdy nobody who's supposed  to really be much deeper but i haven't seen anything deep about him. I keep on thinkingdid I miss a chapter where brandon really explored his situation and developed his personality because it feels like he's supposed to be more than meets the eye

Renarin's character is one perfect example of how tropes can make or break a character within fandoms. Renarin has glasses, it is said he is awkward (though we do not really see it within the textual, I find Adolin to be more awkward with people: his date with Janala being the prime example), he is physically weak and he feels deflated next to his athletic family: he is exactly the perfect recipient for many reader's projections. As such, he has to be very smart, he has to have hidden depth, even if the textual has not shown those, yet. He is basically your ideal new generation fantasy hero: not much which meets the eyes, but rises up to the challenge and he gets awarded super powers. Think Harry Potter.

There is something about the younger generation's culture which finds Renarin very appealing, very trendy and yes, there was a time when his character was definitely over-rated. Not so much anymore: the wind turned. The fact he is trendy has diminished next to the fact many readers find him an unexplained Radiant. Of course, there is a rational, of course, we can guess what it may be, but we didn't read it, yet, which means him being a Radiant does seem like the weak boy being given super-powers just because he has a disability and to some, that's a tad disappointing when you have read how hard it was for Kaladin and Shallan.

[Andy92]

As soon as someone said Adolin, I knew @maxal would be back in here lol. 

[maxal]

1 hour ago, Andy92 said:

As soon as someone said Adolin, I knew @maxal would be back in here lol. 

I am always reading, not always commenting, but I am often reading. 

[Ammanas]

@maxal very insightful comments regarding Renarin. Even when I disagree with your comments it seems like you usually have unique, well thought out ideas that are, at times, a breath a fresh air. Keep up the good work!

[maxal]

1 minute ago, Ammanas said:

@maxal very insightful comments regarding Renarin. Even when I disagree with your comments it seems like you usually have unique, well thought out ideas that are, at times, a breath a fresh air. Keep up the good work!

Thanks  I am glad you like the post even if you don't necessarily agree with it. Discussing characters if what I enjoy the most.

[Ammanas]

Just now, maxal said:

Thanks  I am glad you like the post even if you don't necessarily agree with it. Discussing characters if what I enjoy the most.

Oh I liked this one. I was just saying in general when you post stuff. I had the same thoughts about Renarin, but couldn't put it into words like you did.

[maxal]

1 minute ago, Ammanas said:

Oh I liked this one. I was just saying in general when you post stuff. I had the same thoughts about Renarin, but couldn't put it into words like you did.

Renarin is a hard to discuss character because put words into the wrong order and you can get a very negative reaction from people. I usually re-read myself about 10 times before posting anything having his character as a topic. I am glad the post worked and managed to convey my thoughts appropriately. The more I think of it, the more I see the similitude in between Renarin and Harry Potter. It is not perfect, but they have a few common elements.

[Toaster Retribution]

Renarin is a character who represent people with different conditions (he is autistic, I believe). Those kind of characters, who in some way represents a minority are popular because of the representation factor (among other things). It is the same thing with Jasnah, as an atheist. Those who aren't parts of the minority groups in question often won't understand or relate to the characters in the same way, and might find them overrated. 

[maxal]

1 hour ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Renarin is a character who represent people with different conditions (he is autistic, I believe). Those kind of characters, who in some way represents a minority are popular because of the representation factor (among other things). It is the same thing with Jasnah, as an atheist. Those who aren't parts of the minority groups in question often won't understand or relate to the characters in the same way, and might find them overrated. 

I would argue Renarin's popularity is not directly linked to his autism as he was popular before we found out about it. I read him as a wish fulfillment character: there is nothing impressive nor outstanding about him. He is ordinarily looking, he isn't physically imposing (and bad at sports which may be something a given percentage of fantasy readers relate to), he feels as he does not fit, he feels powerless to influence his own future, but he is suddenly given super-powers and a chance to make a difference.

Those are very teenage-oriented themes. Who, as a teenager, has not feel as if he/she did not belong? Who has not dreamed, during those years, a door to a magical world wouldn't open right in front of them to suck them into a place where their problems would disappear? Where people would automatically see how extraordinary and unique they are? Without having to change nor work anything about either themselves and/or their attitude? Who hasn't?

Well, not many people I wager, I sure was this teenager, but what works for younger people does not always work for grown-ups. As a grown-up, the trope now unnerves me because I find it unrealistic. Renarin's problems aren't the world, they are his and, realistically speaking, his life won't get better until he assumes it, until he starts to realize the problem is not his sickness, but the fact he chose to have it prevent him from taking any action. It is probably one of the reasons I have so much trouble with is character, on average: I can't read him as a victim whereas those who truly love his character does.

Hence, Renarin becomes this currently barely developed character a lot of readers can project themselves on.

Jasnah is different. She is not a wish fulfillment character so her popularity is linked to other aspects entirely.

[Toaster Retribution]

25 minutes ago, maxal said:

I would argue Renarin's popularity is not directly linked to his autism as he was popular before we found out about it. I read him as a wish fulfillment character: there is nothing impressive nor outstanding about him. He is ordinarily looking, he isn't physically imposing (and bad at sports which may be something a given percentage of fantasy readers relate to), he feels as he does not fit, he feels powerless to influence his own future, but he is suddenly given super-powers and a chance to make a difference.

Those are very teenage-oriented themes. Who, as a teenager, has not feel as if he/she did not belong? Who has not dreamed, during those years, a door to a magical world wouldn't open right in front of them to suck them into a place where their problems would disappear? Where people would automatically see how extraordinary and unique they are? Without having to change nor work anything about either themselves and/or their attitude? Who hasn't?

Well, not many people I wager, I sure was this teenager, but what works for younger people does not always work for grown-ups. As a grown-up, the trope now unnerves me because I find it unrealistic. Renarin's problems aren't the world, they are his and, realistically speaking, his life won't get better until he assumes it, until he starts to realize the problem is not his sickness, but the fact he chose to have it prevent him from taking any action. It is probably one of the reasons I have so much trouble with is character, on average: I can't read him as a victim whereas those who truly love his character does.

Hence, Renarin becomes this currently barely developed character a lot of readers can project themselves on.

Jasnah is different. She is not a wish fulfillment character so her popularity is linked to other aspects entirely.

This all makes much sense. I still think that you could factor minorities into his popularity, even though they aren't the main reason (same thing with Jasnah). The things you bring up probably makes more of an impact though, and is a bigger factor in Renarins popularity (different things applies to Jasnah, as you said yourself).

[Tesh]

Stick

Hoid

[maxal]

13 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

This all makes much sense. I still think that you could factor minorities into his popularity, even though they aren't the main reason (same thing with Jasnah). The things you bring up probably makes more of an impact though, and is a bigger factor in Renarins popularity (different things applies to Jasnah, as you said yourself).

I have to mention these are my personal impressions: other readers might have totally different perspectives, but I do currently think there is an element projection within Renarin's popularity. It may however be him being autistic does draw a few people in just as Kaladin being depressive is drawing a few people in. 

[MONARCH]

Adolin for sure.

[Yitzi2]

On 7/31/2017 at 9:21 PM, maxal said:

I have to mention these are my personal impressions: other readers might have totally different perspectives, but I do currently think there is an element projection within Renarin's popularity. It may however be him being autistic does draw a few people in just as Kaladin being depressive is drawing a few people in. 

I'm not so sure that Kaladin isn't autistic as well to some extent; that line about "I don't want to just make things better for myself, I want to make them better for people who are as I am now" (I forget the exact quote) reminds me a lot of certain aspects of my own autism.

[+Zodiac]

I love Adolin. I can relate to him more than any other Brandon character. Plus he has a character arc in both books. That's more than Dalinar got. 

[Taliax]

I liked Adolin because his viewpoints kept me from getting too bored during the Dalinar chapters (sorry Dalinar, I'm sure Oathbringer will help me love you). I think he's a good character, but still pretty overrated among the fandom.