Most Overrated Character

[Calderis]

@maxal and I can understand that. 

Studies have shown though, that at least here in the US, to proclaim yourself an atheist increases people's view of you as "untrustworthy."

It's considered a detriment to a politician's prospect's towards election. 

[maxal]

15 minutes ago, Silverblade5 said:

@thegatorgirl00 @maxal

I find this curious, as Dalinar is the one I identify with most and respect. I'm curious to hear your reasoning on this.

First, I need to specify I do not find Dalinar to be over-rated, but I can understand why there might be readers who do, just as I understand readers who would come into the thread saying Adolin is over-rated. I do not share those thoughts, but I can see where others having them are coming from. 

When it comes to Dalinar, I can definitely see why his inclinations, his desire to blindly follow his visions, to entirely base his decision making onto those visions, to wager his men and his son's life over his own interpretation of said visions would get on some readers bad side: they do get on mine. I also find Dalinar's character development to be sparse: he does not change nor does he evolve within those two books. Yes, he is "important" to the narrative, but I find Adolin, for instance, has much more character development than him and is more "present" in the story than him. Dalinar, I read as a very static character: he never really has "moments" where he embraces a new self: every one of his moments have been reflected for years before they happen whereas when I read Kaladin, I can definitely say his character has progressed since early in WoK. Dalinar? Not really. He's exactly the same: he could have had no viewpoints and he would still be where he is now, so that's why I think there may be readers who find him over-rated.

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

@maxal and I can understand that. 

Studies have shown though, that at least here in the US, to proclaim yourself an atheist increases people's view of you as "untrustworthy."

It's considered a detriment to a politician's prospect's towards election. 

I am aware of this: I am your northern neighbors  We are peculiar within the world as I don't think there are many places which rejected religion in such a vehement way as us. It just happened: churches emptied themselves. People walked out of them and never came back. No more. So here, I would say it is the opposite: we are wary of overtly religious politicians. Very wary. Very, very wary. We aren't going to cast our votes towards those politicians.

Edited July 27, 2017 by maxal

[WhiteLeeopard]

I have to admit I just mildly like Spook. I enjoy reading about him, but in a neutral sort of way. As such, never really got why he got singled out of the original crew to lead the new world. All I could see is that he was young and the others didn't really fit (although a world led by Breeze would be absolutely hilarious).

[StrikerEZ]

11 hours ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

Most unerrated character: Vathi, from SotD. She is smart and quick at learning to survive in a deadly environment. Someone once asked Brandon if she is Khriss in disguise. She isn't, but the fact that it was even a question should give you some idea how storming great she is. 

This so much. Vathi and Dusk are two of my favorite Cosmere characters ever, so I'm always so sad to see how little love they get. 

But I don't think any characters are really overrated for me. I kind of like all of Sanderson's characters, really.

I liked Marsh, but I never quite understood why everyone thought he was so cool. Sure, it's interesting what happened to him, but I dunno. He always felt like a side character to me, so it was weird how important he became and the fact there was such a following around him.

Oh, I don't get why Axies seems to be so popular. Sure, it was funny reading his interlude, but I basically forgot about him afterwards. He wasn't all the memorable to me.

[Calderis]

18 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

This so much. Vathi and Dusk are two of my favorite Cosmere characters ever, so I'm always so sad to see how little love they get. 

I honestly think this is mainly because his short stories aren't as widely read as his books. I think a lot of people just haven't read SotD, and most who have only once or twice. 

I think people are less willing to invest into a character they don't expect to see again. 

[StrikerEZ]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

I honestly think this is mainly because his short stories aren't as widely read as his books. I think a lot of people just haven't read SotD, and most who have only once or twice. 

I think people are less willing to invest into a character they don't expect to see again. 

Yeah, that's true. I dunno, I just love them so much, even if we only got a short story from them. SotD is probably my favorite short story. Of course, there's also Secret History and Edgedancer, but those are cool for different reasons. 

[AeonaRin]

1 hour ago, maxal said:

Jasnah being a non-believer is not a characteristic I find special nor innovative nor anything: I find it normal. Worst, I'll admit I consider all characters I read to be atheists up until they start not being atheists, which is why the one thing which many readers love about Jasnah is the one thing I just don't find special.

But since when a character has to be "special" to be relatable? :P I don't think her marvel is in her distinctiveness as the only well-known alethi heretic, but people can relate to her world view anyway. If you are an atheist you probably do to, even if you didn't think anything of her "uniqueness". There are probably people that relate to Jasnah because she's a black sheep, I for one, definitely was one because of this very reason in middle school, being the only one in my year not attending religion classes (yes, we have such thing in Poland). But it's not the main reason I like Jasnah, and I'm pretty sure most people have other reasons too. For me, the core of her personality is being a dedicated scholar and a stubborn one - Veristitalian. I also relate to her poor social skills ;P So yeah, what I meant to say is that it's not about being "special" but about having similar values as the reader. I mean, one of my favourite characters was Ym, every day, regular, normal guy (well, minus a spren). And I understand that some poeple might find her personality overrated, but come on, not because she's not special enough? 

 

Anyways. I find a lot of beloved main characters overrated because of their personality. 

Vin. Liked her in Mistborn 1, but absolutely hated her teenage heart dilemmas in Mistborn 2, could not look at her the same way ever again. 

Kelsier. He's just kind of a douche. 

Spook. Bland. Dull. 

Shallan. For someone so inteligent she makes a lot of bad choices. Or maybe I'm just a play-it-safe kind of person. 

[Toaster Retribution]

One of the things I dislike about Jasnah, is her somewhat elitist attitude, and the fact that she feels so cold sometimes. She feels like someone who is unpleasant to be around. 

I do get why people like her though, so when I rethink it, I dont find her overrated exactly. Its more that I dont relate to her, and dislike parts of her personality.

[Erandeni]

1 hour ago, strumienpola said:

For someone so inteligent she makes a lot of bad choices

Well, being intelligent doesn't protect you against bad choices, and IIRC she is over 16, but I agree with you about Spook, I don't find his character interesting, and all the worship he gets in era 2 bothers me a bit.

 

 

[Calderis]

29 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

One of the things I dislike about Jasnah, is her somewhat elitist attitude, and the fact that she feels so cold sometimes. She feels like someone who is unpleasant to be around. 

This... I can see what you're saying. 

I may be projecting here, but I think that's a defense mechanism. I do the same thing. Both in her case and myself I don't know of it's from childhood trauma or sociopathic tendencies. 

In myself... Empathy was something I had to learn. I was extremely manipulative when I was younger, not because I was trying to be, or because I was intentionally callous, but other than particular subjects or situations that are triggers, my emotions are subdued enough that the idea of other people's emotions being a factor was just... Foreign.

The cold and methodical approach to how she approaches things has always seemed familiar to me, especially in the moments that you see here emotions push through and see how much they truly do drive her. The logical approach is a defense mechanism designed to keep her powerful emotions in check. 

It's the primary reason I feel that whatever broke her was both extremely emotionally traumatic, and happened at a young enough age to stunt her emotional development. 

And your right, it probably does make her unpleasant to be around much of the time. 

[maxal]

1 hour ago, strumienpola said:

But since when a character has to be "special" to be relatable? I don't think her marvel is in her distinctiveness as the only well-known alethi heretic, but people can relate to her world view anyway. If you are an atheist you probably do to, even if you didn't think anything of her "uniqueness". There are probably people that relate to Jasnah because she's a black sheep, I for one, definitely was one because of this very reason in middle school, being the only one in my year not attending religion classes (yes, we have such thing in Poland). But it's not the main reason I like Jasnah, and I'm pretty sure most people have other reasons too. For me, the core of her personality is being a dedicated scholar and a stubborn one - Veristitalian. I also relate to her poor social skills ;P So yeah, what I meant to say is that it's not about being "special" but about having similar values as the reader. I mean, one of my favourite characters was Ym, every day, regular, normal guy (well, minus a spren). And I understand that some poeple might find her personality overrated, but come on, not because she's not special enough? 

I meant I felt one of the reasons Jasnah is slightly over-rated might be linked to her being an atheist as many readers do praise it. I do however agree the distinction in between "relatable", "over-rated" and "under-rated" is quite nebulous. Whether I personally find Jasnah relatable or not should not be the question, but whether or not her character's current importance within the narrative is over-rated or not. It is why I did not name her within my original post as it is hard to evaluate if her character truly is over-rated or it is I who under-rates her. Unlike other characters such as Renarin, she can't be removed from WoK: she does have a role, but it remains a supporting role. As such, I have always thought some of the attention she was getting from both readers and the author was slightly going over what her presence has accomplished so far.

So while I agree there certainly are several aspects of Jasnah which makes her relatable to many readers, I do feel it is another discussion (also I don't find her atheism to be particularly relatable to me, as a reader, as she spends way too much time thinking about it whereas I seldom spend thoughts on religion whichever way). I have always felt her "special take on religion" is what got her to be over-rated to begin with, but we may be playing with perceptions here. Thus, it is not because I don't find her "special" enough I find her slightly over-rated, but because I felt many readers give it a stronger importance then it truly has, but it may just be my personal bias speaking. It is hard to tell, really.

35 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

One of the things I dislike about Jasnah, is her somewhat elitist attitude, and the fact that she feels so cold sometimes. She feels like someone who is unpleasant to be around. 

I do get why people like her though, so when I rethink it, I dont find her overrated exactly. Its more that I dont relate to her, and dislike parts of her personality.

Jasnah prioritizes rationalization above emotions which is why she appears cold. It isn't she has no emotions, but she does not factor them in when it comes to decision making nor does she bother with them into other people. Brandon confirmed Elsecallers are specifically looking for people with those inclination. Thus, she is cold and it does make her appear elitist (which she may very well be, but I don't feel we have read enough of her to truly know). 

I for one do not relate to this aspect of her character as I don't believe in dispassionate decision making which I find too akin to Taravangian's empathy-less clever day. 

29 minutes ago, Idealistic said:

Well, being intelligent doesn't protect you against bad choices, and IIRC she is over 16, but I agree with you about Spook, I don't find his character interesting, and all the worship he gets in era 2 bothers me a bit.

While I understand why some readers have little interest into Spook, he did become the last full Mistborn and he did help re-built the new world. I definitely understand the worships he gets into Era 2.

[Everstorm Entropy]

I guess for me it's Shallan, but I don't know if over-rated is the right word.  A lot of other readers seem equally unimpressed by Shallan.

But I guess I'll clarify that what bugs me most about her isn't necessarily her fault; I just can't stand her naivety concerning the world.  You can't really blame her for her upbringing, and I understand she's the "Fish out of water" perspective for the reader's benefit; she's seeing a lot of things for the first time, therefore Brandon gets to easily convey information to the reader.

It's mostly her interactions that show a lack of care for others.  She buys the slaves from Tvlokov, and pays them a wage, but still refers to them as "her slaves" at a few points.  Her first interaction with Kaladin, she steals his boots all for the purpose of a joke with Tyn.  It might have seemed harmless to her, but as Kaladin points out later, she did it because she simply didn't care about him as a person; he was a play-thing for her entertainment.  When she's disguised in Seborial's war-camp, before her first meeting with the Ghostbloods, she's genuinely surprised when people simply don't move out of her way when she's walking towards them, as they normally would have when seeing a Lighteyes.  Then she takes out an Emerald sphere to pay for a candy apple, only realizing after everyone was staring at her that she held enough money to pay for 250 apples.  It's an ignorance and naivety that just gets under my skin, even if it stems from innocence.

Again, all of these traits aren't really Shallan's fault necessarily.  She has been terribly sheltered and lived a pampered life in a high society.  But she has yet to show me that she's actually a caring and compassionate person.  Sure, she does some good things, but usually because she needed something in return.  I hope that I grow to like her more in the coming books.

[maxal]

1 hour ago, Everstorm Entropy said:

I guess for me it's Shallan, but I don't know if over-rated is the right word.  A lot of other readers seem equally unimpressed by Shallan.

But I guess I'll clarify that what bugs me most about her isn't necessarily her fault; I just can't stand her naivety concerning the world.  You can't really blame her for her upbringing, and I understand she's the "Fish out of water" perspective for the reader's benefit; she's seeing a lot of things for the first time, therefore Brandon gets to easily convey information to the reader.

It's mostly her interactions that show a lack of care for others.  She buys the slaves from Tvlokov, and pays them a wage, but still refers to them as "her slaves" at a few points.  Her first interaction with Kaladin, she steals his boots all for the purpose of a joke with Tyn.  It might have seemed harmless to her, but as Kaladin points out later, she did it because she simply didn't care about him as a person; he was a play-thing for her entertainment.  When she's disguised in Seborial's war-camp, before her first meeting with the Ghostbloods, she's genuinely surprised when people simply don't move out of her way when she's walking towards them, as they normally would have when seeing a Lighteyes.  Then she takes out an Emerald sphere to pay for a candy apple, only realizing after everyone was staring at her that she held enough money to pay for 250 apples.  It's an ignorance and naivety that just gets under my skin, even if it stems from innocence.

Again, all of these traits aren't really Shallan's fault necessarily.  She has been terribly sheltered and lived a pampered life in a high society.  But she has yet to show me that she's actually a caring and compassionate person.  Sure, she does some good things, but usually because she needed something in return.  I hope that I grow to like her more in the coming books.

I wouldn't qualify it as an over-rated character rant. I understand you do not personally enjoy the character and she rubs you off the wrong way, but she definitely isn't an over-rated character: she is quite the opposite. The number of posts coming from readers saying they can't stand Shallan, they skipped Shallan's chapters (especially in WoK), they don't get why we have to read Shallan: I would say she is severely under-rated. She is one of the most major character in the story: she can't really be over-rated. 

I feel over-rated characters refer to characters who's importance have been amplified above their real impact into the narrative and not merely characters we don't particularly enjoy though I agree the distinction in between the two can be... muddy.

Hence, choices such as Hoid, Axis, Lopen, Wayne, Lift, Renarin, Jasnah are good choices because they each are characters having sometimes garner a lot of attention from the fandom and there may be readers who feel this attention is disproportionate. Dalinar can be considered a good choice because he really does not have such a big role within the first two books. I don't personally consider him to be a main protagonist within WoR, even if Brandon considers him such: Adolin had a much bigger role to play. I am surprised nobody said my personal favorite, Adolin, yet because if there is a character who has gotten a lot of attention which may be disproportionate from his current and future role within the story, it is him. I don't personally mind it, in fact I love it, but I would be wrong not to call it out for what it is.

[Toaster Retribution]

3 hours ago, Calderis said:

This... I can see what you're saying. 

I may be projecting here, but I think that's a defense mechanism. I do the same thing. Both in her case and myself I don't know of it's from childhood trauma or sociopathic tendencies. 

In myself... Empathy was something I had to learn. I was extremely manipulative when I was younger, not because I was trying to be, or because I was intentionally callous, but other than particular subjects or situations that are triggers, my emotions are subdued enough that the idea of other people's emotions being a factor was just... Foreign.

The cold and methodical approach to how she approaches things has always seemed familiar to me, especially in the moments that you see here emotions push through and see how much they truly do drive her. The logical approach is a defense mechanism designed to keep her powerful emotions in check. 

It's the primary reason I feel that whatever broke her was both extremely emotionally traumatic, and happened at a young enough age to stunt her emotional development. 

And your right, it probably does make her unpleasant to be around much of the time. 

When the notification "Quoted by Calderis" popped up, I thought it was for the Paliah thread, so I just clicked without checking, and ended up pretty confused when your answer didnt end up matching the topic I thought I was at.

Anyway, I am the type of person who dislikes when people seem to think that they are better, or wiser than everyone else, or act condescending. I feel that Jasnah does this. I do understand that people identify with her though, and I find it interesting how we understand different characters depending on how we are as people. You seem to know Jasnah much better than I do. 

@maxal I agree about Shallan. She doesn't get much love from the community (I would put her on an underrated characters list). I consider overrated to be more focused on characters who you don't personally get the love for. For example, I consider Luke Skywalker to be bland and boring, but he is pretty popular. I consider him to be overrated, because even though he is the main character the people around him are more interesting/fun/cool/whatever. Now of course it is easier to find people like Axies or Lift overrated, since they dont have a huge relevance to the plot. But a main character can still be overrated, I think.

[maxal]

7 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

@maxal I agree about Shallan. She doesn't get much love from the community (I would put her on an underrated characters list). I consider overrated to be more focused on characters who you don't personally get the love for. For example, I consider Luke Skywalker to be bland and boring, but he is pretty popular. I consider him to be overrated, because even though he is the main character the people around him are more interesting/fun/cool/whatever. Now of course it is easier to find people like Axies or Lift overrated, since they dont have a huge relevance to the plot. But a main character can still be overrated, I think.

This is interesting... Can main protagonists ever be over-rated? I can't say I agree with you on Luke Skywalker though my personal favorite has always been Han Solo (I mean Harisson Ford circa 1980 someone ), but I thought you launched an interesting idea. 

Could characters such as Kaladin, Shallan, Vin, Wax be considered over-rated despite them being the obvious focus of their respective stories? I mean, if the story is focusing on a given character, can it ever be said such character is over-rated by the fandom?

Edited July 27, 2017 by maxal

[StrikerEZ]

1 minute ago, maxal said:

This is interesting... Can main protagonists ever be over-rated? I can't say I agree with you on Luke Skywalker though my personal favorite has always been Han Solo (I mean Harisson Ford circa 1980 someone ), but I thought you launched an interesting idea. 

Could characters such as Kaladin, Shallan, Vin, Wax be considered over-rated despite them being the obvious focus of their respective stories? I mean, if the story is focusing on a given character, can it ever be said such character is over-rated by the fandom?

I think I agree with @Toaster Retribution here. I definitely think that main characters can be overrated. And I think the main problem here is how we're defining overrated.

I personally define overrated characters as characters that are really popular, regardless of their importance to the story, within the community that you don't find all that interesting. 

[maxal]

2 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

I think I agree with @Toaster Retribution here. I definitely think that main characters can be overrated. And I think the main problem here is how we're defining overrated.

I personally define overrated characters as characters that are really popular, regardless of their importance to the story, within the community that you don't find all that interesting. 

But if they are main protagonists, isn't there normal for readers to like them and give them importance? I am not sure I agree with your definition. For myself, I consider characters to be over-rated if the fandom gives them attention which is disproportionate from their importance to the narrative. Lopen is a very good example. Read on Reddit, especially, and people will say "The Lopen" to almost anything, praising a character which has accomplished not much and is known for his humorist come-backs. He is definitely over-rated as there is no promises this "love" will transpose into a fully fleshed character.

Can we however say Kaladin (this is just an example) is over-rated? I think his contribution to a few given scene is over-rated, but not his character. He is the main protagonist of the entire series: nobody is more major than him, so how can whichever attention he is getting ever be considered too much? Can it? 

[Andy92]

For me it might be Vasher. I knew Nightblood was a big deal before I read Warbreaker, but when I read the book I became a lot more interested in the chapters with Siri and Lightsong. He has some cool scenes but I think with the character being a worldhopper, he gets hyped up a bit when he just hasn't been amazing to read about outside the sword he carries.  

[Toaster Retribution]

29 minutes ago, maxal said:

This is interesting... Can main protagonists ever be over-rated? I can't say I agree with you on Luke Skywalker though my personal favorite has always been Han Solo (I mean Harisson Ford circa 1980 someone ), but I thought you launched an interesting idea. 

Could characters such as Kaladin, Shallan, Vin, Wax be considered over-rated despite them being the obvious focus of their respective stories? I mean, if the story is focusing on a given character, can it ever be said such character is over-rated by the fandom?

Yeah, I think they can. If we keep on using Star Wars as an example, I find Luke to be bland (as I said). When people rank him over characters who are (in my opinion) more interesting, funnier, cooler, whatever, like Han Solo or Kylo Ren, I don't get it at all. Luke is the main guy, yes, but that doesnt make him more interesting, funnier, cooler than others. And like @StrikerEZ said, overrated is the word for well-liked characters who doesn't appeal to you. I know that you yourself find Adolin to be a great character (the most interesting I think?) and then I guess that you feel that he should get the space his interesting-ness requires. 

If you find the main character to be flat and boring (me with Luke) then you will consider the attention he is getting as too much, when there are other, more interesting things to discuss, like Kylo Ren or Han Solo. At least I think that way. In fact, I often prefer side characters in favor of main ones.

[StrikerEZ]

10 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Yeah, I think they can. If we keep on using Star Wars as an example, I find Luke to be bland (as I said). When people rank him over characters who are (in my opinion) more interesting, funnier, cooler, whatever, like Han Solo or Kylo Ren, I don't get it at all. Luke is the main guy, yes, but that doesnt make him more interesting, funnier, cooler than others. And like @StrikerEZ said, overrated is the word for well-liked characters who doesn't appeal to you. I know that you yourself find Adolin to be a great character (the most interesting I think?) and then I guess that you feel that he should get the space his interesting-ness requires. 

If you find the main character to be flat and boring (me with Luke) then you will consider the attention he is getting as too much, when there are other, more interesting things to discuss, like Kylo Ren or Han Solo. At least I think that way. In fact, I often prefer side characters in favor of main ones.

This sums it up way better than I did. 

I would upvote it, but I'm out again.

[Calderis]

@Toaster Retribution @StrikerEZ @maxal

I think this is just going to be a problem when it comes to any use of the word "over rated" 

Books, movies, characters, restaurants, you name it. All of these are called over rated when a large group of people like something, and the person saying it doesn't understand why. 

It's completely subjective. And by that requirement it's impossible for something to be objective over rated, as it is rated as highly as the consumers make it. 

It's a term that will always be argued, purely because opinions differ. 

[Nathrangking]

Kelsier. Yeah he was the one who ultimately caused the end of the lord ruler , but at the same time he ultimately caused the end of the lord ruler. His insane quest for vengeance almost ended all life on scadrial. Then there is his manipulations of everyone around him with reckless disregard of the fact that he always espoused trust. Add to that everything that he pulled in the secret history and you get a horrible role model. 

[ThePathsofPain]

9 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I have to admit I just mildly like Spook. I enjoy reading about him, but in a neutral sort of way. As such, never really got why he got singled out of the original crew to lead the new world. All I could see is that he was young and the others didn't really fit (although a world led by Breeze would be absolutely hilarious).

I'd have to agree with this. Spook isn't a bad character by any means but he didn't really stand out to me as all that interesting either. He was just kind of there. 

[maxal]

3 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Yeah, I think they can. If we keep on using Star Wars as an example, I find Luke to be bland (as I said). When people rank him over characters who are (in my opinion) more interesting, funnier, cooler, whatever, like Han Solo or Kylo Ren, I don't get it at all. Luke is the main guy, yes, but that doesnt make him more interesting, funnier, cooler than others. And like @StrikerEZ said, overrated is the word for well-liked characters who doesn't appeal to you. I know that you yourself find Adolin to be a great character (the most interesting I think?) and then I guess that you feel that he should get the space his interesting-ness requires. 

If you find the main character to be flat and boring (me with Luke) then you will consider the attention he is getting as too much, when there are other, more interesting things to discuss, like Kylo Ren or Han Solo. At least I think that way. In fact, I often prefer side characters in favor of main ones.

But finding Luke (or any other main protagonist) bland is a critic towards his character, it isn't an evaluation towards his importance to the main narrative. The first trilogy centered around Luke morphing from farm boy to Jedi knight: the focus was on his journey and while characters such as Han did get development, they aren't the focus. Hence, saying Luke is over-rated is the equivalent of saying he ought not to have been the main protagonist when the critic ought to be the character should have been given a more interesting edge to explore than your traditional farm boy with a sword and a famous father. Star Wars is basically your state of the art generic tropes executed within an ambitious setting at a time where people couldn't even dream of making such movies: it was fantasy space-opera before fantasy got to be a mainstream thing. So yeah, it didn't get imaginative when it comes to characters, though I would argue, at the time when it was made, there was no saturation of the common tropes yet.

And while yes, I do find Adolin to be the most interesting character, I have to concede the fact he just isn't one of the main protagonists which means I may very well be over-stating his importance. As I said previously, it is a tricky line to walk on. Yes, I do want Adolin to get a bigger spotlight and I do feel the character has earned it, but as long as the author does not confirm he intends to write it, I am most probably over-stating his importance. 

It is thus I feel over-rated or under-rated characters have to judge based on their contribution to the story and not towards what we would prefer their contribution to be. Star Wars with another lead but Luke wouldn't be Star Wars, just as SA without Kaladin as the main lead would not be SA. I love Adolin, but the same story with him as the main lead really isn't the same story.

3 hours ago, Calderis said:

@Toaster Retribution @StrikerEZ @maxal

I think this is just going to be a problem when it comes to any use of the word "over rated" 

Books, movies, characters, restaurants, you name it. All of these are called over rated when a large group of people like something, and the person saying it doesn't understand why. 

It's completely subjective. And by that requirement it's impossible for something to be objective over rated, as it is rated as highly as the consumers make it. 

It's a term that will always be argued, purely because opinions differ. 

True enough which is why we ought to better define what we mean for the purpose of this thread. I interpreted it as characters being more talked about (and/or loved) within the fandom then their importance to the story dictates they ought to. We could however embrace @Toaster Retribution's definition in saying it refers to characters we find are too important to the story (or have a too strong focus on). The key is to clear about it.

[Toaster Retribution]

@maxal I am okay with whichever interpretation. Personally, I had the Toaster Retribution interpretation in mind (obviously, since I am Toaster Retribution) but I'm okay with your idea of it too. I still think that main characters can be overrated, however. If you find the main character to be bland or boring, the role the person in question has in the story shouldn't matter. If I think that Kylo Ren is a better crafted and more complex character than Luke Skywalker, then I will also be of the opinion that Kylo deserves more discussion and praise. The role a character has in the story does not affect how well-written or interesting they are. However, I doubt that any of us will change our opinions on this, so unless you want to discuss this more, we will just have to agree to disagree, I guess. And as I said, I think that both versions of overrated works in this thread :-)