Nohadon Posted August 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Calderis said: Except it didn’t. It gave him finer control. Which Kelsier already had. Your thread, your choice ultimately. But your reason here isn't correct. i think i misread, zane still wins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 Just now, Nohadon said: i think i misread, zane still wins? It's your choice, Zane wins, was just saying I disagreed and why. Your not wrong though, I just disagree. The WoB I found and edited in says we're both right about his spike. I just don't think push strength is all that important in an allomancer fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 Zane or Raoden... I don´t know, probably Zane, due to Atium. It could really go either way though. If Raoden manages to dodge Zanes attack long enoigh, Zane will eventually run out of metals. AonDor doesn´t need to be refilled. However, with Atium, I think Zane could kill Raoden before his metals run out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erandeni Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Calderis said: I just don't think push strength is all that important in an allomancer fight. Agree, the fact that Zane knows about duralumin and Kelsier doesn't would be more determinant, i think. Even with that adventage I still have doubts about Zane winning. About Raoden Vs Zane, with atium Zane would win, elantrians are powerful but Raoden is not a warrior. Edited August 15, 2017 by Idealistic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, Idealistic said: Agree, the fact that Zane knows about duralumin and Kelsier doesn't would be more determinant, i think. Even with that adventage I still have doubts about Zane winning. I don't feel like duralumin is nearly as spectacular as people want to make it all the time. Yes in a case where your enemy doesn't know about it, the surprise can win it. If you miss though? You just killed that metal reserve completely. Which means you need to ingest more of (most commonly) steel and pewter. That means your physically slower than your enemy and react more slowly. If you fail with that kill shot, your at a severe disadvantage for a few moments, and you've lowered your ability to fight if things drag on too long. Duralumin is all about capitalizing on a moment that you probably could have won anyways. The most impressive uses we see of duralumin use have more to do with transportation to or from a fight than they do with the fight itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erandeni Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, Calderis said: That means your physically slower than your enemy and react more slowly. If you fail with that kill shot, your at a severe disadvantage for a few moments, and you've lowered your ability to fight if things drag on too long. That's a good point I haven't take into account, it's a great risk but if he use it the same way he used it against Vin, it could give him a good edge, especially because Kelsier doesn't know about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterion137 Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 Raoden should beat Zane. Fully powered his shield Aon seemed to be pretty tough, tougher than Zane can get through easily anyway. His fire Aon is basically impossible to dodge since it's a pillar rather than a projectile, and his energy attacks don't seem easy to dodge at all. They appear to be self-aiming, in fact. So basically Raoden can just camp behind his Aon wall and call fire out of the ground to cripple Zane, then teleport out of his shield and vaporize him with energy attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent34 Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 4 hours ago, asterion137 said: Raoden should beat Zane. Fully powered his shield Aon seemed to be pretty tough, tougher than Zane can get through easily anyway. His fire Aon is basically impossible to dodge since it's a pillar rather than a projectile, and his energy attacks don't seem easy to dodge at all. They appear to be self-aiming, in fact. So basically Raoden can just camp behind his Aon wall and call fire out of the ground to cripple Zane, then teleport out of his shield and vaporize him with energy attacks. If I remember correctly from the text it said Aon Edo produced a shield that drew strength from the Dor to basically counter whatever force was applied to it. Assuming my memory's correct it'd be a pretty solid defence against whatever Zane can throw at Raoden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudjumper Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 Zane loses. Raoden calls down fire from behind Aon Edo and does his AonDor stuff until Zane dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 Yeah. There's no contest. Raoden. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nohadon Posted August 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 ok, it seems like we have a conclusion, its time for Marsh verses Raoden, both contestants are at there most powerful states, being as if Raoden was in the heart of elantris and marsh being... well... marsh... The person who suggested the winner gets bragging rights! LET THE FIRST EVER DEATHBATTLE FINALS, BEGIN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elenion Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 Raoden may be fast with his Aons, but he's not inhumanly fast. Marsh can take him down using Feruchemical steel before Raoden can get defenses up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterion137 Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) Why Raoden will Win: Powers: Enhanced strength: Elantrians are stated to be faster and stronger than normal men, although not as strong or fast as Dakhor monks. Healing: Elantrians have been shown to be able to heal themselves from supposedly fatal burns in the climax of Elantris. They were stabbed, thrown into a pile, and set on fire, yet they all survived. This might even be better than Marsh's insane healing factor, plus Raoden doesn't run out of healing. Damage output: Raoden has the energy output to one-shot Marsh. His aon-based attacks reduced a Dakhor with an enhanced skeletal structure to a smoking charred pile of flesh. Marsh might have healing, but from a pure durability standpoint he won't be able to hold up against fully powered Aons. You can't really heal from being reduced to a skeleton, even with F-Gold. The aonDor based attacks won't really be dodgable even with Feruchemical steel because Da seems to be auto aiming and Ehe isn't a projectile. Shield: This is the important one. Raoden's aons let him make a physical shield that can keep out essentially any physical force. Marsh won't be able to affect raoden except for emotional allomancy, which is not going to be effective for long in a fight. Raoden has shown unmatched mental strength and determination in being able to fight through his Hoed condition and restore Elantris. Marsh never opens with speed. This is an important point. All hope of Marsh winning lies in him opening with a blitz. He can't hope to break Raoden's near-unbreakable magic shield. However, he never starts his fights with F-Steel. A-Steel, maybe, but that's not a deal breaker since Raoden can still erect a shield and has a healing factor capable of healing from coin wounds. After a shield has been raised, Raoden can use unpredictable fire pillars and energy blasts to kill marsh with impunity. Edited August 21, 2017 by asterion137 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 Could go either way for the exact reasons @asterion137 points out. For Marsh this is an all or nothing fight. He either opens full on and downs Raoden, or he isn't closing the gap. I'd give it to Raoden, because I doubt Marsh would know he has to end it in literally a split second. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent34 Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Calderis said: I'd give it to Raoden, because I doubt Marsh would know he has to end it in literally a split second. Ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 I was planning to say Marsh, but @asterion137 made some very good points. Some things in favor of Marsh though: -A decapitation/headshot should instantly kill Raoden. And I think that you could argue for the Elantrians having some sort of super-heal when they were on fire, because it was in that moment they completed their transformation. So the heal might not be as powerful at all times. -If Marsh doesn't know Raodens powers, Raoden doesn't know Marshs either. Because of that, emotional allomancy might surprise him enough for Marsh to get the edge. -Raoden draws Aons quickly, but I doubt he is fast enough to create a shield against a Steelrunner. I think that Marsh has the potential to win here, and I'm voting Marsh for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent34 Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 Depending on how far apart they start Raoden could get Aon Edo drawn in time, it's one of the simpler Aons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erandeni Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 I agree with @Toaster Retribution, Raoden doesn't seem to heal very fast when Dilaf hurt him, besides the shield is descrive like a wall of light so it seem that it only protect him from one direction, plus I don't think his attacks go through it so he has to deactivate in order to attack. So I am going with Marsh, with atium he could dodge his attacks, and when Raoden use his shield,he could use his speed to attack him from other direction or use the moment when he has to deactivate the shield to approach and kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterion137 Posted August 22, 2017 Report Share Posted August 22, 2017 7 hours ago, Idealistic said: I agree with @Toaster Retribution, Raoden doesn't seem to heal very fast when Dilaf hurt him, besides the shield is descrive like a wall of light so it seem that it only protect him from one direction, plus I don't think his attacks go through it so he has to deactivate in order to attack. So I am going with Marsh, with atium he could dodge his attacks, and when Raoden use his shield,he could use his speed to attack him from other direction or use the moment when he has to deactivate the shield to approach and kill him. nothing prevents raoden from using multiple shields. He could make four shields that block marsh out from every side. They haven't been shown to "run out" either. Raoden can definitely kill marsh through his shield, because it's just a physical barrier that interacts with physical force. His investiture based attacks will work and his fire will work either way because it's not a projectile and thus isn't easily dodgable or blockable. Atium so far hasn't been shown to detect non-physical presences like fire or elantrian energy bolts. Raoden can heal himself with AonDor even if his innate healing factor isn't as strong as I thought it was. He was just unable to use his powers because Dilaf knew to go for the hands. And even if Marsh uses steel, Raoden has shown the speed to react to him before he closes the distance (assuming they're at least 40 or so feet away from each other). He is able to use Aon Edo before the supernaturally fast Dilaf can swing a sword at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted August 22, 2017 Report Share Posted August 22, 2017 And at that point, Raoden was well outside the range of Elantris, so his healing there was not indicative of an Elantrian at its full, Elantris boosted, power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taliax Posted August 22, 2017 Report Share Posted August 22, 2017 Sounds like there's a good reason Arelon never had an army. And why the final battle in Elantris had to take place in a different country. Raoden in Elantris seems super OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted August 22, 2017 Report Share Posted August 22, 2017 11 hours ago, asterion137 said: He is able to use Aon Edo before the supernaturally fast Dilaf can swing a sword at him. This depends on how much speed Marsh has stored. If he has a big enough amount, he could essentially be the Flash, and run circles around both Raoden and Dilaf. And you don't need to be the Flash to outspeed Dilaf either. A Steelrunner would probably not have that hard of a time outspeeding a Dakhor monk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nohadon Posted August 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2017 ok there's one thing everyone here (might've) kinda forgot bendalloy. it creates a speed-bubble where marsh can plan, considere and dodge oncoming attacks. and its not like raoden can shoot straight through it, a bendalloy bubble creates a distortion field where all attacks are moved slightly off-course, and Raoden's Aon-Powered shield is just that - a shield. its not a dome, its a straight wall-like shield. and before you say he doesnt has access to era-2 metals, i said that each contestant is in there MOST powerful form, Marsh being ironeyes, who has worked very closely with harmony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erandeni Posted August 23, 2017 Report Share Posted August 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, Nohadon said: and before you say he doesnt has access to era-2 metals, i said that each contestant is in there MOST powerful form, Marsh being ironeyes, who has worked very closely with harmony But I don't think he'd killed a bendalloy misting to get the power, once he is free from Ruin control he should have stopped killing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nohadon Posted August 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2017 Just now, Idealistic said: But I don't think he'd killed a bendalloy misting to get the power, once he is free from Ruin control he should have stopped killing. I'm 90% sure i read something about ironeyes being made a mistborn along with spook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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