M.Puddles Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 I'm back after a hiatus. I'm looking for anything that comes to your mind. I apprecaite your time, thank you. Matt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kais Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Welcome back! Overall The chapter was fairly well written, but I'm not sure what the purpose was. Was it just for our young hero to pay his dues, basically, and grow stronger? The narrative isn't particularly compelling, and there isn't really any tension. I think you'd be better off doing something like about half the ride there, then just a 'He worked in the kitchens for six months before they moved him to vegetable peeling' or something like that, and then move to an important moment (like meeting some key person). The minutia of him using too much lye doesn't add much to the narrative right now. I'm also not really connecting with our main character. He isn't showing much emotion or doing anything particularly heroic and/or interesting. I think a good rewrite could tighten this up immensely. Keep at it! As I go - willow isn't a proper noun - a cow was stealing wares? How? Why? - we're getting a lot of names and people all at once. I'm not going to remember them likely. Better to introduce slowly, one at a time - I'm at the first # break, and getting antsy. The ride is taking too long without any real information being presented (we're not getting a lot of worldbuilding), and not getting any real character development or backstory. Let's get to the kitchens! - the second description of the girls who aren't twins is just repeating the information presented before - I'm not a huge fan of the young hero jumps to the rescue of the maligned girl trope. It's not necessarily bad, or that it needs to be changed, just giving you my mental feedback here. The scene made me want to skim, because it seemed very cliche. - capitalization issues. When it's used as a name, it's capital. When it's a modifier, it's not capitalized. my uncle Hi, Uncle! He saw his uncle. That man, your uncle. I love Uncle! - "I have a feeling you'll get a chance in the kitchens before long." Technically isn't he already in the kitchen? I assume you are insinuating that our boy on this traditional hero's journey will earn his worth quickly through pot scrubbing and then move on to Better Things? The scene with the chef also plays out pretty cliche. I think you need a different take on at least one of these areas to spice things up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandamon Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Agree with @kais on this one. It's very long with not a lot of action, though the writing is good. I'm also not sure what the point is, or whether all this could be boiled down to "he rode in a cart, lost a fight with an offensive jerk, and worked scrubbing pots for weeks." Need a whole lot more emotion from Petro to connect with the character and give some interest to the chapter. I noticed this was chapter 3, so is this the same story with Petro at 9 rescuing the girl? If so, there's a large jump in time there that probably needs to be explained better. Notes while reading: Pg 2: so Petro's 16 now? It's been a while since the last chapter, but as I recall, Petro was 9? pg 3: "stealing her wares." --missing an end quote. Also, what? pg 4: ok, I guess the old man's just crazy? pg 6: "So Peto" --Is this is typo or is Kether messing up him name? pg 6: So far, I'm relatively confused. Last I remember Petro was chasing some princess and now he's talking to a cart driver with dementia and I'm not sure where this is going. pg 6: ok, so Pheldo is not the cab driver getting Petro's name wrong, but the cart driver's name? pg 9: "Le-el-nn," --are we supposed to understand what this is? pg 11: this fight is sort of sudden. I don't get a lot of feedback from Petro on what he's feeling. I'd like more internal monologue. pg 12: there's not a lot of resolution to the fight. What happened after? pg 15: "watched the corpulent step" --missing a word pg 15: "Petro was fast. Years of training under his Uncle's tutelage..." --yet after all this training, he's been beaten by Kethar and a fat chef? pg 25: need a break before the three week skip 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
industrialistDragon Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 As I go: WRS: Is this the same protagonist that was in the previous chapters? If so, he seems awfully chipper for all he's been through. Were there no repercussions from that night? (Note from future me: I went through my backlogs and it appears that this is the same person? but not the same age? I can't tell) "he imagined warm bread,..., permeating the air," So.. if the bread is permeating the air, does that mean it's flying? I mean, I think I've just spent at least five minutes pondering just how loaves of bread could potentially be described as "permeating" a given space. It's been amusing, but I'm fairly well derailed from the actual story at this point. I once read a book where the bread grew rudimentary internal organs. Not that the baker INTENDED them to grow internal hearts and lungs and whatnot, but still. Levitating bread is not out of the question for a fantasy story.... (also, kid's got a really idealized idea of food service! XD ) The first... three-ish pages or so feel really repetitive as the boy tells us at least two or three times how he got to be enjoying the early morning. Did we learn what a servicer was in previous chapters? I'm slightly confused by the term, but it might just be me. "hung well past their shoulder and rested near their chest" this whole section with the girls -- if you're referring to one person and using they/them, then you're only dealing with one set of bodyparts. However, if you're referring to two people, they both need to have their own bodyparts. their shoulders, their chests, their tails, their braids. Every time. I'm sure sisters that close share lots of things, but shoulders are probably not among them. "homemade slips that draped" Having two descriptions of the same people so close together feels repetitive to me. This implied rape threat seems to pop up out of nowhere for me, and I'm not sure it serves much purpose other than make K seem "bad" enough to make P look heroic when standing up to him. Again, I'm not particularly invested in "the girls," who even the protagonist can't bother to differentiate into two separate individuals, and if this is the same boy we met in chs 1 & 2, we've already seen him save from danger a random girl who is mostly devoid of personality. If it's not the same boy, the similarities in the two scenarios have me greatly confused. I'm seeing a lot grammar and possibly editing issues in the text that are confusing me, feel repetitive, or both. I'm really confused as to the blocking in the section where P meets K at the bakery. They seem to be described as having a face-to-face confrontation in a doorway, yet B is able to stick his neck (and only his neck?) between the two boys, and right after that P is noticing K's back. As belligerent as K is, I don't feel like he would turn his back on P... The part with the head chef is good! It moves along at a nice clip and we get a bunch of good description. The chef has a clear personality and is described well! I just wish this section had come sooner or that the rest of the piece had been chugging along at a similar pace. "“Sheers. I’m a tailor’s son.” I was willing to go along with the food service scars, but sewing? As someone who makes fitted, complex garments from scratch with some regularity, it's puncture wounds and burns from scalding water or precision ironing that are more the name of the game, or cut off fingertips. Rotary tools are unbelievably sharp and I've sliced a nice chunk off my fingertip and nail a time or two (once by way of demonstration to a customer who didn't take using a cutting mat seriously. USE A CUTTING MAT WITH ROTARY TOOLS it will save your table, your tools, and your sanity), but what the heck was he doing to get blade scars on the top of his hands? I'd've fired him too, if he was cutting fabric that way! Overall, I found this chapter to be uneven and confusing. the beginning is very slow, the middle interesting, and the end is a summary of events I would have loved to see played out, at least a few of them. I'm still trying to figure out what this chapter has to do with the first two. I remember from before being interested in P and his powers, but this ch3 version of him I just can't get into. He seems very bland now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuoaman Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Overall: I haven't read the previous chapters so I may be missing some key information but this definitely doesn't feel like the third chapter of a story. There's very little conflict here and not a whole lot of character. It feels like an extended setup for something that might materialize later. I don't get much of a sense for who Petro is or why he's getting swept up in these things. For example, I don't understand why exactly he would be working in the kitchens at all, considering there seems to be a long (possibly hours' long?) journey between his home and his workplace - it would make far more sense to hire local boys than some kid from the countryside who has a greater chance of being late. I also wish Petro as a character had more to work with, he very much seems to only be reacting to things, there isn't much going on inside and I think that could definitely be improved with some internal monologuing or even just making him more vocal. The pacing was also way over the place, the first ten or so pages dragged a lot and then suddenly we were just getting an overview of a period of three weeks? I also feel that the kitchen scene should come in its own chapter, but that may just be me. There were also quite a few grammar and spelling errors, I wrote down what I was able to in my detailed notes below, but I definitely missed some. One thing I did like were the occasional references to Petro's training with his uncle, I don't know their context but they intrigued me more than the immediate conflicts in this section of the story. I would have like dto see more of those references seeded throughout the length of it, it might also give Petro a touchstone with which to compare his current experiences. Detailed: Page 1: -"It will be a beautiful day" reads a little strangely, I think "It is going to be a beautiful day" might work better in this context -"scent of clean" is another thing that reads oddly, "clean scent" might work better -"that awakened up before sunup," I think you mean "that he awakened before sunup" or "that he woke up before sunup" Page 2: -"a wrinkled face with the skin that seemed more leathery than flesh" should probably be "a wrinkled face with skin that seemed more leather than flesh" Page 3: -There's an end quote missing from the old man's first statement. -"them leaving Petro dumbfounded" - the "them" is unnecessary. Page 4: -What is a servicer? -The use of "guy" to describe the strange man pulls me out of things here, the word carries a very modern connotation that seems at odds with the setting. Page 6: -"Before Petro thought considered what happened" - I think this is supposed to be "Before Petro could consider what happened" -You misspelled Petro's name as "Peto", though that might be intentional from Kether. -"Is he serious about the bats?" - I genuinely don't understand what this is supposed to mean, does Petro not understand metaphor? Or did I miss a reference? -"half of the city" - missing a period after this. Page 7: -"more towering" is some weird phrasing, I'd recommend something like "towered further" -The use of cement is another thing that seems excessively modern from what I've seen thus far. -"you might wonder why it was there" - I get that Pheldo's words are intended to be cryptic but I can't tell if this is a non-sequitur or he's talking about the fields here. Page 8: -"Their faces were sculpted with gargoyles in mind." - Are the girls in any way unattractive? I have no idea what these characters look for except that they look like twins but are not. This jab seems to come entirely out of left field. -The description of the girls' appearances should have come earlier, when the two first arrived at the cart, it's a little late to be getting names and descriptions now. Page 9: -"older boy" - It's only now that I'm realizing that I have no idea how old any of these characters are. I assumed that Petro and the girls were mid-late teens while Kether seemed to be older, perhaps in his twenties, given Petro's interactions with him. -"Le-el-nn" - this had me stumped. My first thought was that he was attempting some sort of magical incantation but I figured out that the intention was likely to say "Leave them alone." If that is the case I'd recommend making it a little more obvious by filling in more of it to make it less confusing. Page 10: -"Kether raised his hands to his shoulders, on either side of his face." - Whose shoulders, whose face? -Kether's sudden change in personality is very jarring. He seemed a tad arrogant, but more foppish than malicious early on, but now he's done a sudden turn and I feel you could seed some of this into their earlier interactions to make it more clear that this is who he is. -"sometimes this moon" - "sometime this moon" Page 11: -Why does Kethar move towards the girls when Petro's the one who called for him to stop? Seems incongruent. -It's really unclear how Petro was able to fall out of the cart, I assumed it had walls high enough to prevent this sort of thing, you might want to give it a more detailed earlier on for this sort of payoff. -"A clacked" - "It clacked" Page 12: -Is there any sort of reasoning behind the wheel no longer squealing? It seems an odd thing to notice. -I think it might have worked better to split the following kitchen scenes off as a completely new chapter. Page 13: -I'm kind of confused, the way Kethar was talking made it seem like he was some sort of lord out in the country, but apparently he's just another kitchen worker? Page 14: -"the corpulent" - "the corpulent man" Page 15: -"threw him inside the kitchen" - Petro wasn't inside the kitchen already? I thought he had already taken steps inside and was just in front of the doorway. Page 17: -"That's what I figured you say." - Petro didn't say anything, he just nodded. And it should be "you'd say," not "you say" Page 18: -Should the door really have any sort of grime on it if this man runs as good a kitchen as he supposedly does? -Why does the kitchen have its own dungeon specifically for washing pots? Seems like it would be more efficient to just have it be a side-room that is properly lit. -"hold in the wall" should probably be "hole in the wall" Page 20: -Why wouldn't Petro's senior have been at work already? Seems irresponsible to not have someone train the new kid. -Jaimar's initial description repeats the same details over and over again and could probably be tightened up a great deal. Page 22: -"chaotic work pace" would probably work better as just "chaotic pace" Page 25: -The sudden time skip throws me, it feels like this should come after a chapter break. Page 26 -didn't have to simple farm work" missing a "do" or "perform" in there. Page 27 -"Despite the glares and insults," - unnecessary comma -"that all change" - "that all changed" Edited July 19, 2017 by Yuoaman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdpulfer Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 - I was a little confused why Willow was capitalized. - The wagon driver tells stories, but it feels a bit weird we don't get to hear any of them, especially since this could be an excellent opportunity for world-building or foreshadowing. - I agree with kais - the chapter seems to wander a bit. It's well-written -there is strong description, particularly in the beginning, but I don't feel like the character is moving towards anything. It might need a bit of cutting, just down to the essentials. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Puddles Posted July 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 Thanks to everyone. I laughed the image of bread permeating the air in a literal sense and the idea of cow stealing something (it should have read 'crow'). I'm reading a consisten feedback: The chapter is written well, but meanders and takes too long to introduce meaningful conflict. The MC lacks personality and requires more internal dialogue to help the reader connect to him There is information missing. In particular: How much time elapsed between the last chapter and this one Why does it matter if Petro doesn't get to work in the kitchens Who is Kethar and why is he in the kitchens (related to what Servicers are) There are syntax and grammer issues. To recap: The first draft of this story is over 1300 pages. Too long. It has 17 POV characters. This was the first thing I've written. It's long and I learned as I went. In this draft I'm trying to codense may of the backstory chapters I wrote for my characters into meaningful events that reveal who they are, share the world and introduce conflict sooner. Chapter 1 introduces the villains and the true antagnoist. Chapter 2 introduces the MC in Petro. I try to establish my promises to the reader in the first two chapters. Chapter 3 brings us forward a few years and is meant to show a naive kid that follows the rules, build a bit of the world (servicers) and introduce an intial contagonist (Kethar) and conflict. It introduces Bernike and Jaimar who become central characters and good friends. The second part of this chapter contains a training scene with Uncle. During this scene Petro assembles a plan to get him back inot the kitchen proper while Uncle Landon is set upon a quest that affects Petro's plans. I'm open to rewriting this chapter. I just don't know how to do it yet. I think I'll submit the 2nd half of the chapter next week, and see if you have any advice. Thanks again to the time and effort you made to this chapter. Matt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 I'm really sorry it’s taken me so long to get to your submission. I hope something there is useful here. Summary at the end. Why capitalise ‘willow’? It’s just some willow tree. And then ‘Temple’, I think, should just be ‘temple’, unless referring to a particular temple. “A service his uncle…” and the next sentence are one sentence. I’m not grabbed by the first couple of pages. There’s some fair imagery, but the events are kind of boring. Pet is going to work. Everyone goes to work (in some form). It’s not especially entertaining “well past their shoulder and rested near their chest” – sounds like they’ve only got one shoulder between them, and one chest. There’s something off with the last part of this section, it seems to repeat events, like Pet sitting down and the old man storytelling. A city reminding someone of an ant colony is a pretty heavily used image. Verging on cliché, I think. “…the cement structure stood over ten feet tall” – Okay, engineering grumble, sorry. Cement itself is not that strong. If you build a 10-foot wall out of cement with no reinforcement, it will crack and fall over, because mass cement doesn’t work in tension. The wall goes into tension because the force of the wind acts laterally on it, trying to bend it over about the base (where the wall is fixed). Also, cement is expensive compared to rock, one of the reasons that concrete contains aggregate (small rocks). These prevent cracking and also add strength. The Romans had concrete, so you could use that term and not be out of line with a sword-and-sorcery tech level. Why capitalise ‘ceremonial’? We wait a long time to get the sister’s names. Pet says he knows them, but he doesn’t think of them by name, or greet them or differentiate between them for some considerable time. Also, we already know they’ve got ponytails; the description sounds a bit repetitious. There’s a fair amount proofing stuff; I'm not going to call everything as no doubt you’ll be editing anyway. I found it rather predictable that it would end up that K worked in the kitchen. Was that intended as a surprise? I didn’t really land for me. Do you make a sweetbread? I would have said you cook it or prepare it. I don’t know how much preparation there is, maybe just butchery and some flour on the outside before you fry it. Forgive me asking, but do you know what a sweetbread is? I find it tends to crop up when an author is looking for something that sounds sophisticated to serve, to show excess or fine dining. To me, it would be a pretty strange thing to eat on a common basis. It’s your world, of course, but a diet of sweetbread is going to lead to the gout before long, I think. Sweetbread is either the thymus or pancreas or a calf or lamb. Yuck! I’m Scottish, I eat haggis and black pudding with great gusto, but sweet bread, nope, not for me :O/ I wouldn’t capitalise ‘uncle’ unless using the name, like ‘Uncle Buck’, for example. Honestly, sorry to say it but, for me, nothing very interesting happened. Boy goes to work, stands up against a bully (standard reluctant hero), the bully works in the same place. Hero gets to wash the dishes. It’s hard work. On the last page, you mention the tedium of the work. That’s really what this chapter is about, but playing up tedium to the reader, I think, is not a good idea. I believe you could cut this down dramatically, certainly the bit once Pet gets to the city, probably to a couple of pages. A little of this hard graft goes a long way. Sorry not to be more encouraging. That’s writing, you keep at it till it gets to where you want it, and where it gets the feedback you want, obvs. I’ve not read the other comments yet, but I'd be surprised if there wasn’t a lot of encouragement to get past the boring stuff and get to the interesting, unexpected, surprising stuff. Good luck! <R> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 On 19/07/2017 at 3:49 AM, kais said: I'm not a huge fan of the young hero jumps to the rescue of the maligned girl trope. It's not necessarily bad, or that it needs to be changed, just giving you my mental feedback here. The scene made me want to skim, because it seemed very cliche. Yup - #iagreewithkais #iagreewithmandamon On 19/07/2017 at 7:43 PM, Mandamon said: so Petro's 16 now? It's been a while since the last chapter, but as I recall, Petro was 9? Awesome memory skills, Man! You criticalled your 'dispel WRS' roll there - nice! On 19/07/2017 at 8:49 PM, industrialistDragon said: So.. if the bread is permeating the air, does that mean it's flying? ROFL - sorry. I know you only need to insert 'aroma of' o/e, but really ID, flying bread? Have you heard of the 'ancient' tradition of throwing bread rolls across the room at formal dinners? I don't approve of this practice, but is has happened in living memory On 19/07/2017 at 11:19 PM, Yuoaman said: but this definitely doesn't feel like the third chapter of a story. Yeah, new hashtag, #iagreewithyuoaman. On 20/07/2017 at 5:56 AM, M.Puddles said: The first draft of this story is over 1300 pages. Good gravy, Batman - even Brandon on a 'bad' day... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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