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20140210 - Without Honour - Chapter 4 (-)


Robinski

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Hi All,

Here is Chapter 4 - for those reading up to this point, I promised some action, I hope there is enough here. I like to think that this moves things on a bit anyway, makes it clearer what is going on in terms of part of the pitcure anyway.

I know there is still a bit of Passive Voice going on here, I haven't gone through an edited for earlier comments, so you're still getting what is the raw first draft of the story - apologies for that!!

All comments very gratefully received and appreciated.

Cheers, Robinski

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Keep in mind I haven't read the first three chapters.

 

You address the passive voice in your comment so I'll skip that.

 

First and foremost, I feel like you need to develop your scenes better. A huge chunk of this chapter happens between events, while the events themselves are fleeting or recounted after a sub-chapter break from a future point in time. I felt almost let down at the end of some sub-chapter because I thought something really cool was going to happen and then, not so much.

 

I wanted to feel like I was right there in the moment with the characters, ya know? The only time that really happened was during the description paragraphs, but the scene shifted and changed so often that I felt like I was being kicked out of the story periodically.

 

The final scene of the chapter is strong and should be what you're shooting for, but up until then I didn't feel like anything that was actually happening in the chapter (with maybe the exception of the capture and escape) actually mattered. The entire plot was being pushed forward by outside forces, the past, thoughts, which does happen, but in this case it made the characters, with the exception of the ones in the final scene, all seem very passive. The passive voice and present participles didn't help.

 

I noticed some passages felt stronger, like you were more confident. The ending to the first sub-chapter, and the very final scene were the strongest bits. The dialogue was solid, though I didn't really get a sense of the characters personality through the dialogue, which I'd look out for.

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There's still a lot to like here both in the story and the writing, but the lack of development is starting to lose me. Marnar has spent three whole chapters working on leaving the city only to be brought back, introduced to a conspiracy and then... not join it. So nothing's really changed for him. And for the most exiting part of what happens to him - his daring escape - we don't even get his perspective and the excitement that could bring? That seems an odd choice.

 

The stuff with the general also seemed odd in a couple of ways. Firstly, having someone labelled as a general rather than a lord or duke or war leader or suchlike seems at odds with the feudal setting we've seen until now. Secondly it's not at all clear to me why they've gone to all this effort to recruit Marnar. What's so special about his skills and abilities that they'd try to force him into their conspiracy? This means they're telling someone who's almost bound to turn on them. Why risk it?

 

The introduction of the conspiracy moved the plot forward, which was good, but given Marnar's reaction it still doesn't feel like quite enough.

 

I was pleased to see Saffen again at the end, and am looking forward to seeing her get into whatever she's going to get into.

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Thank you guys. Good comments as ever.

Hawkedup, I can totally recognise your comments in my writing, and particularly in this chapter. It's something I'm prone to and I'm not sure why, but must work on. I can almost convince myself it's because I like the contrast in tone, and think it increases the impact of the action, but if it doesn't work for the reader then it's broken. I'll look at that in the edit.

Andy, I sense your frustration! It's all very well me trying to be mysterious, but not at the expense of holding the reader's interest. At the point I'm at now (Chp. 17), I'm feeling the nagging pull of going back and editing because I know the balance of plot signposts is wrong, and you've confirmed it.

The 'general' thing is untidy, accepted. It's really just a label that Marnar uses, but the more it's used without relief, the more it sticks when it shouldn't. As thing go forward, that label drops away. I think I'll water it way down.

Finally, bringing parts of both of your comments together, Marnar's viewpoint on the escape is told in the next chapter, in what is I suppose a kind of flashback, thus taking a fair bit of the immediacy out of it, I suppose. I was trying to place it as a puzzle in Chapter 4' with the answer in Chp.5, but for the reasons discussed, I think it may be a fail.

Once again, I really appreciate you guys' comments. I've got a lot to think about come editing time.

I think maybe I'll put a few more chapters up and then go 'lick my wounds' and finish the first draft. There's what I think of as the best set piece in the first part in Chapter 8, so if you guys are willing to stick it out till then, I won't burden you any further!

(PS - Andy, we getting any more Fire in the Blood? I'm missing it these past couple of weeks : o )

Edited by Robinski
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Glad you're finding this helpful, and I'm definitely looking forward to reading more. I'm particularly looking forward to that set piece, as it's interesting to see when any of you folks stretch yourselves with something a bit different.

 

And yes, there's more Fire in the Blood on the way - I'm up to about chapter 20 on first drafts, the problem is finding time to tidy them up enough to go up here. I meant to put something up last week, but instead I crashed my car and that kind of threw my concentration (advice to British readers - don't do 70 on the M62 in heavy rain - it may not end well!). Really pleased to hear that you're looking forward to reading more!

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I have notes below from before I read the other comments.  Having read them, I do agree with the passiveness, and it's similar to what I'm saying.  I think this chapter could probably be half as long and keep up the tension a lot better.

 

-----

 

pg 1-2: There's a lot of slow plodding along at the beginning of this chapter--could be shortened a little (see further notes below)

 

pg 3: some confusion here.  I missed at first that there was another walker on the road because you then say the road was empty a few lines later.  Also, you say Marnar heard the wagon, but then a few lines later say he couldn't hear the wagon at this distance.

then later:

"Marnar didn’t turn to see what choice the man made"

"A quick glance back told him he wouldn’t make it "

--wouldn't he see the man, then?

 

pg 5, mid:  repetition of "the distance"

 

pg 6, nitpick: "None of the superiors...WERE alive"

 

pg 8: feels a little backwards on the description of the general.  You say there's nothing remarkable in his appearance and he exudes an air of command.  Then in the next paragraph, you have Marnar take in what the general looks like.  I'm wondering if it should be the other way around.

Also, he leaves, so it's not really "this" conversation, is it?

 

pg 10: "The Bloody Hand of Brekia, slayer of kings."

--ahh...good work there.  I hadn't pieced that he was the one we saw in the prologue before now.  Surprising, yet inevitible.

 

pg 11: last paragraph, a bit of a loose POV.  You're describing what the general sees, not Marnar.

 

pg 14:  Another new POv.  I'm watching you...

I thought at first Lenal was the general, but I think he's one of Kavyelan's guards?

pg 16: seems like you're switching POVs between Lenal and Kavyelan?

 

The first half of this chapter is a few moments of action when Teiman captures Marnar, but mostly us hearing passively about Marnar's tiredness or pain.  I think this ties in with my question from chapter 2 of why he let Marnar run in the first place.  He could have captured him then and saved the effort to chase him down later.

 

We're now 4 chapters in and I'm not sure how many POVs.  I'm starting to get lost from story to story, simply because you're switching between each one, and then adding more in.  I can keep Marnar and Saffen straight, but then there's the stuff with both kings, and Damiel,and probably some others I'm forgetting.  I'm not sure I'll remember what they're doing when you get back to them.

 

I'm still enjoying it, but something is going to have to happen soon.

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instead I crashed my car and that kind of threw my concentration (advice to British readers - don't do 70 on the M62 in heavy rain - it may not end well!). 

 

Hope everything's ok.  I was over in Leicester on the M1 last week for business and saw all the flooding you guys are having.  Try not to float away!

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Hope everything's ok.  I was over in Leicester on the M1 last week for business and saw all the flooding you guys are having.  Try not to float away!

 

I fortunately came out of it OK, and ironically Manchester's one of the few areas not suffering from flooding - guess we're just so used to the rain you can't tell the difference!

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but instead I crashed my car and that kind of threw my concentration...

 

Yikes! Trust you're okay, and that your concentration is the only thing that was thrown.

 

I have tried to do something different with the style of the writing in the Chapter 8 'set piece' (hope I'm not building it up too much) - all of my WH posts are first draft no tidying, straight out of NaNo, which is why I'm so pleased with the comments, but apologies to all if the lack of polish is making you all work harder!

 

Didn't realise you were in Englandshire too, Mandamon. It's been a bit blowy and wet up here in Glasgow, but feel for you folks in the south. Deeply ironic that there will probably be droughts in the summer. Someone needs to do some long-term planning, someone other than the Env. Agency! As a civil engineer I'm frustrated on your behalf.

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Whoa, sorry Mandamon, was thrown by the talk about car crashes and totally overlooked your comments!!

 

Thanks for those. Points taken about pacing and confusion on road, also about 'the general'. Perils of not polishing before posting here but, after swithering about whether to go down this excellent and constructive road that is Reading Excuses without doing my usual of finishing, re-reading, editing, editing, editing then considering showing a piece to another human being (takes about 2 years), I am just so into Without Honour that I've probably been a but over-eager, so thank you for persevering.

 

A 'surprising, yet inevitable', hurray! Feels like I've won an award. I'm glad that worked for you.

 

 

Another new POv.  I'm watching you...

 

LOL, yes I'll fix that, bit fast and loose there, sorry.

 

On the POV's yes, I'm clearly going to have to address that. It's all very well to think that, if you were reading it as a single piece, it would (hopefully) be easier to follow than in the episodic form in RE, conversely, you guys are writers, and if I'm losing you in one way or another, there will be a lot more readers who would have jacked it in before now.

 

That and the level of 'action' will be the biggest fix in Edit #1, but hopefully you can bear with me for another four chapters and the promised 'climax' of what I think of as the unofficial Part 1. Fewer viewpoints (from recollection).

 

I'm interested in the notion of 'something happening'. Clearly things are happening, but it comes back to the fact of passivity, which Hawkedup mentioned too, and my troublesome habit of describing some action in 'flashback' - what is that about? I pledge to tackle that issue as I go forward into Chapter 18, but as promised before, I won't subject you to any more than Chapter 8.

 

Many thanks again for the comments.

Edited by Robinski
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