the winter system Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 I doubt we'll get another X2 shard akin to Harmony and several Shards are splintered, but this is a hypothetical question. What if two shards somehow (hypothetically) combined and what would their new intent be? Ruin and Perservation were reflections of each other, so they made Harmony, but, for example, Cultivation and Endowment might make...? I'm curious what people think! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 Odium and Ruin would be fun. That would basically be Obliteration. It would be interesting to see Dominion and Autonomy as well, if someone reforged Dominion. Wonder if that would create something Harmony-esque? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the winter system Posted July 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Toaster Retribution said: Odium and Ruin would be fun. That would basically be Obliteration. It would be interesting to see Dominion and Autonomy as well, if someone reforged Dominion. Wonder if that would create something Harmony-esque? Dominion and Autonomy is actually surprisingly a good Harmony pair. I wonder if their's any others. Devotion and Odium, perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erandeni Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 How about Ruin and Ambition? It would be destroy with a purpose. Or Ambition+Dominion would be something like Conquest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scriptorian Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 (edited) Odium + Cultivation = Corruption (I'm picturing Morgoth, with his habit of creating lesser versions of Eru's creatures.) Odium + Honor = Justice/Retribution (This could be okayish if the right person holds it, or terrifying in the hands of someone like Nale.) Odium + Preservation = Sadism (keep everything in state of pain) Odium + Dominion = Tyranny Odium + Devotion = Jealousy Devotion + Ruin = I'm actually picturing some kind of psycopomp, grim reaper type. "Ruin is not just destruction, but peace with these things" (paraphrased). Not sure what to call it... Cultivation + Endowment = Guidance Devotion + Presevation = Protection Dominion + Preservation = Security Endowment + Ruin = Sacrifice (I really like this one) Ambition + Autonomy = Rebellion Endowment + Preservation = Community Ambition + Preservation = Patience Honor + Endowment = Unity (or is this honor and preservation?) Edit: Cultivation + Ruin = something about a cycle of growth and decay or reoccurring change...Dynamism? Edit 2: Autonomy + Ruin = Chaos (because we need a Shard called Chaos) Edited July 14, 2017 by Scriptorian 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightlord M. Alhstrom Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 A couple others: Dominion + Devotion = Mastery or Benevolence Odium + Endowment = Corruption (Gifting Anger) Odium + Cultivation = Rage (Growing Anger) Devotion + Endowment = Unity/Integration (Gifting Devotion? Like, Unifying people?) Devotion + Honor = Order Devotion + Ambition = Diligence (This one could really rival Odium) Devotion + Autonomy = (Some sort of conflict. These seem like they would be quite opposite, but I con't picture them forming some sort of Unity or Harmony) Dominion + Cultivation = Conquest (Yes, we already said that one for Dominion + Ambition, but Cultivation fills the same gap as Ambition in this case) Dominion + Endowment = Governance (Anything else would seem like another conflict Shard. Endowment is giving power, Dominion is taking it. Dominion + Ruin = Annihilation I'll add some more when I have the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 (edited) I have tried and tried but I just can't think of a word that encompasses my feelings about Odium+Cultivation - the need to spread anger and hatred... @Scriptorian your Corruption idea is the best I've seen, but it still feels to easily mixed up with Decay or Ruin. Honor + Odium = Vengeance. I believe the code of conduct and rules inherent to honor would remain, but the focus would shift to punishment for violating that code. Turning the Vessel into Nale would be the most likely outcome. Odium + Endowment = Spite. The gifts given by Endowment would remain, but twisted to be detrimental to the receiver. Devotion + Ruin = I see this one as Sadism/cruelty. The love of pain Culivation + Honor = well I don't really have a name for it, but we've essentially seen the outcome in the Knights Radiant. Growth within structure. Cultivation + Endowment = Investment (don't think that name really works in Cosmere, but giving with the expectation of growth and improvement is investment.) Cultivation's + Preservation = ? Cultivation + Ruin = Revolution (cycle of change, like the revolution of a wheel) Devotion + Dominion = if it were possible this is where I would put Guidance (loving control) @Lord Maelstrom a good fit for Devotion and Endowment is Charity. I may come back and edit more in. I It's a fun thought exercise. Edited July 14, 2017 by Calderis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just another guyn Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 devotion and dominion would probably be unity (see the religions in Elantris for examples) cultivation + honor = guidance odium + ruin + dominion + endowment = @Brandon Sanderson (see alcatraz for a description of authors) Cultivation + dominion + odium = @PeterAhlstrom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciridae Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 I could see Autonomy and Cultivation being Isolation or maybe Wilderness. Devotion and Cultivation could be Fanaticism. Endowment and Autonomy might be Liberation. Endowment and Ambition, Motivation? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 8 minutes ago, Ciridae said: Endowment and Autonomy might be Liberation. Endowment and Ambition, Motivation? I really like these two. For Devotion and Cultivation, same concept but I would choose the name "Zeal" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightlord M. Alhstrom Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 34 minutes ago, Ciridae said: I could see Autonomy and Cultivation being Isolation or maybe Wilderness. Devotion and Cultivation could be Fanaticism. Endowment and Autonomy might be Liberation. Endowment and Ambition, Motivation? This actually makes me think that Endowment and Odium could be Riot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 20 minutes ago, Lord Maelstrom said: This actually makes me think that Endowment and Odium could be Riot. I'm going to think of that combination as inflammation, because it's both accurate, and humorous for its more common meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the winter system Posted July 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 Whoa! I didn't expect to see such a response, thanks for replying! <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 Ambition + Autonomy = self empowerment above all else = Narcissism Ambition + Cultivation = aggressive growth... Expansion? Ambition + Dominion = Conquest Ambition + Devotion = Melodramatic grand gestures? Seriously no clue here. Ambition + Endowment = always desiring to give more? Selflessness? Servitude? Ambition + Honor = Driven by Honor... Eager to act within a set code.... I got nothing Ambition + Preservation = An intense drive towards stasis? I think these would be a very volatile combo. Ambition + Ruin = Destruction. Amplified Ruin. Ambition + Odium = Aggression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciridae Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 @Calderis yeah it feels like Cultivation and Ambition always act as amplifiers for other intents.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 30 minutes ago, Ciridae said: @Calderis yeah it feels like Cultivation and Ambition always act as amplifiers for other intents.. I only partially agree. More so with Ambition, because it seems to be a drive for "bigger and better". I see Cultivation as directed and intelligent growth, and that can apply to much more than plant life. You can cultivate a plan. I imagine that Cultivation is one of the better shards at foresight particularly because of it's planning/planting nature. You can Cultivation emotion, belief, life, etc... It's a very broad intent that I think focuses more on the work towards a set goal than the growth and life normally attributed to her. That's definitely a part of it, but I think that underlying mechanism for planning and plotting would play a major part in its combination with other intents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciridae Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 @Calderis I agree, Cultivation is especially broad. That's exactly the reason why the intent is so applicable to other intents. I always thought along the lines of cultivating hatred, cultivating devotion, etc., as something as a process to be applied to the second intent. Much like being ambitious while endowing or being ambitious while claiming dominion. I think we have a similar idea of what Cultivation entails, in regards to the scope of the shard. Along with Autonomy I think I'm most excited to learn more about Cultivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted July 15, 2017 Report Share Posted July 15, 2017 18 hours ago, winter devotion said: I doubt we'll get another X2 shard akin to Harmony and several Shards are splintered, but this is a hypothetical question. What if two shards somehow (hypothetically) combined and what would their new intent be? Ruin and Perservation were reflections of each other, so they made Harmony, but, for example, Cultivation and Endowment might make...? I'm curious what people think! I think you're looking at this slightly the wrong way, tbh. It's entirely possible that Sazed was as relevant to the fusion result being Harmony as the two shards going in were. If someone else was in his place, you might get Chaos, or Discord, or even Creation. So I'm not sure you can look at two shards and definitively say in advance "I know what they would combine into," because that would depend on the view of the vessel you poured them both into, and the view of everyone else on how the new Shard acts after the fusion. That said, by all means enjoy speculating on names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneNastyChull Posted July 15, 2017 Report Share Posted July 15, 2017 (edited) I disagree with the holder determining the intent otherwise Ati wouldn't of been Ruin, he would of changed it to Weathering or something less destructive. The nicest guy has no effect? Seems like the shards intent overrides the person not the other way around. Odium+Cultivation = Invasion, Envy, Malice Autonomy + Survival = Isolation, Perserverance Autonomy + Odium = Nihlism Cultivation + Honor = Tradition or Liberty (just saying this makes me want to play Civ 5) Odium + Survival = Expellation, Genocide, Displacement Ambition + Devotion = Obsession (I think this one might be the best one I thought of) Survival + Cultivation = Evolution Edited July 15, 2017 by OneNastyChull Adding/ grammar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted July 15, 2017 Report Share Posted July 15, 2017 (edited) Serves me right for only having the Spreadsheet bookmarked and not the topic... Edit: It's been nearly a year and a half since that thread had activity, so this one is good. But have some of the old speculation(and the spreadsheets) for the discussion value Edited July 15, 2017 by The One Who Connects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 On 15/07/2017 at 2:47 PM, OneNastyChull said: I disagree with the holder determining the intent otherwise Ati wouldn't of been Ruin, he would of changed it to Weathering or something less destructive. The nicest guy has no effect? Seems like the shards intent overrides the person not the other way around. (...) I'm not talking about Intents overriding vessels there. The holder would determine to some degree how two intents fuse, as remember the nature of magical things in the Cosmere is heavily influenced by how they are perceived, and Sazed would be the one doing most of the "perceiving" of the combined shard, and also making most of the initial actions that might change perceptions of those shards. Ati had a single Shard, so had no control. I expect a large part of the theme Sanderson has in mind around the shattering is that taking these grand Intents out of the context of a larger vision corrupts them, and as context is quite subjective you would expect that any attempt to recombine the Shards would, therefore, be malleable. But maybe I'm reading too much into things. You're quite welcome to disagree as we're in territory of rampant speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 On 7/14/2017 at 7:47 PM, OneNastyChull said: I disagree with the holder determining the intent otherwise Ati wouldn't of been Ruin, he would of changed it to Weathering or something less destructive. The nicest guy has no effect? Seems like the shards intent overrides the person not the other way around http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1011#3 Quote BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED) Shards and Shard intents: Holding a Shard is a contest of willpower against the Shard that, over time, is very hard to resist. Shards affect you over time, but your mind will not leave a permanent effect on the Shard. A holder's personality, however, does get to filter the Shard's intent, so to speak. However, if that holder no longer held that Shard, the Shard will not continue to be filtered by that person. I wish this wasn't Paraphrased. Basically, I think you're conflating two ideas here. The perception of the Vessels only effects the way that they enact the intent and has no real effect on the Shard itself. This perception does not alter the pressure on their personality. In Ati's case, he's said to have been a kindly man. I don't think that this would have had an effect on his perception of Ruin. My Grandfather served in the Korean War, and I've met many Veterans of WWII and Holocaust survivors who were wonderfully kind older people, but the things they had seen and lived through made their acceptance of death and loss a major part of their personality. We don't know what things were like on Yolen before the Shattering, but I imagine that Ati's outlook was much like them. Additionally, we never got to see Ati's tenure as Ruin. He worked with Leras to create Scadrial and its people. The Ruin we saw, after Ati's subsumation would never have taken part in that, because that version of Ruin was pure intent. The filtering of the intent, and the pressures that are placed on the Vessel by the Shard are two very separate things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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