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1 minute ago, The traveller said:

Wow.. just wow.. so if you disagree then my theory breaks down.. 

It does seem rather stupid when you stay it like that.  Kodos.  However my point was that if a person disagrees with your supposition they don't even have to address the theory.  Ideally a theory should be based on as little supposition as possible(if you are trying to be accurate that is). 

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Dude.. this is the definition of “theory” according to Merriam-Webster:

Quote
3aa hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation
ban unproved assumption CONJECTURE
ca body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject theory of equations
4the general or abstract principlesof a body of fact, a science, or an art music theory
5abstract thought SPECULATION
6the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another

 

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56 minutes ago, Karger said:

It does seem rather stupid when you stay it like that.  Kodos.  However my point was that if a person disagrees with your supposition they don't even have to address the theory.  Ideally a theory should be based on as little supposition as possible(if you are trying to be accurate that is). 

Is that so?

I remember you theorizing that Skathan was an Avatar of Autonomy

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10 hours ago, The traveller said:

There is some wob by Brandon where he said that the sixth of the dusk has tried chouta.. and he did not like it.. therefore, suggesting that fots is indeed in contact with Rosharans

Okk thanx. 

Also you have convinced me a bit.

I used to think they were era 3 Scadrians but Roshar makes sense too. I think roshar might develop spacecraft faster than Scadrial ( tho not FTL ) . They might have too in order to take the fight to Odium on braize, they could use the cognitive realm but I think it would be hard for them there as they can't use surges and attacks by wild Spren , voidspren and singer ghosts make it very costly , not to mention that most of the other Spren aren't quite on great terms with humans. 

Rosharans lusting after aviars to protect them Scadrian or odian emotional manipulation would also make sense. Besides they could act as intermediaries and sell them to nalthisians to hide breath auras. 

I don't think the alethi ( atleast unless Dalinar completely changes them ) care about making laws against unrestricted contact with developing societies but the Thaylens. Yep they could definitely do that or maybe the Aziri . Or maybe it's the Aziri who made the laws and the Thaylens who are trying to circumvent it 

It's said that the ones above look like us , it's not specified if they have long eyebrows or not but then again it wasn't necessary in the conversation with dusk.

The chouta comment makes it likely too. 

But it's said " sometimes they talk like us ". That screams connection. It might be a common attribute on Scadrial but on roshar , so far only bondsmiths are capable of it. Of course maybe they have invented a fabriel that allows connection. 

Or maybe they got access to some Scadrian connection tech. 

And yeah they being Scadrians is too on the nose. 

Yep I'm sold. 

Edited by PrinceGenocide
A little polishing
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@Karger yeah you do seem to be simply trying to prove the Traveller wrong rather than contribute to the conversation. Pls stop that. It's just making this thread long and tedious.

Btw @Honorless who or what is Skathen ?

Oh the emperor of Darkside kk.

Edited by PrinceGenocide
A little polishing
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1 minute ago, The traveller said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Skathan is the king/ruler of the largest kingdom on the dark side on Taldain. He is a dictator and believed to possess some magic/magical means making him immortal: White sand... Have you read White Sand?

 

The graphic novels yeah. I tried to read the prose , idk didn't really get the usual wow this is amazing vibe so left it in favor of the comics and coppermind.

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3 minutes ago, PrinceGenocide said:

The graphic novels yeah. I tried to read the prose , idk didn't really get the usual wow this is amazing vibe so left it in favor of the comics and coppermind.

lol..yes it is a very early book of brandons, it has issues, i am sure of brandon had the time to re-write it today, it will be vastly different..

Spoiler

Anyway, if you recall, this Skathan is threatening Khriss's country with conquest, its a long standing threat. But Khriss has come to the day side and wants to find her fiance but she also hopes to find sand mastery and learn to do it and use it to help her country in the upcoming war with this Skathan!!

 

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9 hours ago, Honorless said:

I remember you theorizing that Skathan was an Avatar of Autonomy

I prefaced that by saying it was a personal pet theory.  Not something I could verify the accuracy of.

8 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

 yeah you do seem to be simply trying to prove the Traveller wrong rather than contribute to the conversation. Pls stop that. It's just making this thread long and tedious.

Our discussion has gotten rather out of hand.  I like to chase the rabbit.  I believe our discussion is already over.

Edited by Karger
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It seems like Sel isn't getting enough attention as possible "Ones Above" so I'm going to present some reasons I think that they are also a likely candidate:

1. It seems a lot of the assumptions about the ones above are based on the ambiguous technology featured in Sixth of Dusk. We've seen Fabriels on Roshar and technology on Scadrial so it's not hard to see why they are prominently featured in theories about this.

However, it's not hard to imagine that Sel would have technology of this level during the time of Sixth of Dusk. As far as we are aware, Sel has had a rather stable existence over the timespan of the cosmere. Thats a big assumption, but still, Roshar and Scadrial have both faced literal Apocalypses since the times of Elantris/The Emperor's Soul while Kriss had virtually nothing to say about the Selish system in her Arcanum essays other than the idea that "Landscapes are coming Alive"

2. Sel has the biggest reason to develop space travel: They have the hardest time leaving the system through the cognitive realm of all the shardworlds. If any shardworld were to have a good reason for space travel, it would be Sel, and that makes me think that they might be the first shardworld to go to space, meaning they would likely be heavily involved in developing a cosmere-wide system of laws and regulations for space travel.

3. Sel is the Shardworld most accustomed to interacting with a multitude of cultures/civilized development; due to the size of their planet and the number of countries and climates it features. The rules on interacting with peoples who are less advanced, and also the willingness to break those rules therefore make a lot of sense for people from Sel as well.

 

Now, I'm not entirely convinced the Ones Above are from Sel myself, but if Brandon wanted to throw us a curveball which, in hindsight makes a lot of sense. Sel would be that curveball. They've been too stable of a planet, based on what we've seen of them, to not have developed faster, and more effectively than other worlds. Especially considering where Elantris falls on the timeline as a story.

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7 hours ago, Lunu’anaki said:

2. Sel has the biggest reason to develop space travel: They have the hardest time leaving the system through the cognitive realm of all the shardworlds. If any shardworld were to have a good reason for space travel, it would be Sel, and that makes me think that they might be the first shardworld to go to space, meaning they would likely be heavily involved in developing a cosmere-wide system of laws and regulations for space travel.

Makes sense.  They will have to find a way out of the region locked nature of their magic systems though.

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1 minute ago, The traveller said:

 I think he is not talking about travel through CR....

?  They will be several bazillion(scientific term) miles from say Elantris.  As I understand it that is bad for Elantris magics.

Edited by Karger
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38 minutes ago, Karger said:

?  They will be several bazillion(scientific term) miles from say Elantris.  As I understand it that is bad for Elantris magics.

Because Elantris magics are region locked. But there are wobs that suggest that there are ways to unlock them in ways that would allow their usage on other planets..

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57 minutes ago, The traveller said:

Because Elantris magics are region locked. But there are wobs that suggest that there are ways to unlock them in ways that would allow their usage on other planets..

Sure my point was they will have to use one of those methods otherwise problems will happen.

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52 minutes ago, Karger said:

Sure my point was they will have to use one of those methods otherwise problems will happen.

Well then, I am glad I was able to clarify your point.. :)

I think Sel has a real possibility @Lunu’anaki because like you said, it is relatively stable and Elantrians must surely be making a lot of research into what is all possible with their magic system. 
we have already seen two different methods of near instantaneous travel, one by Raoden and the other by Dakhor monks.. 

Edited by The traveller
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15 hours ago, Lunu’anaki said:

It seems like Sel isn't getting enough attention as possible "Ones Above" so I'm going to present some reasons I think that they are also a likely candidate:

1. It seems a lot of the assumptions about the ones above are based on the ambiguous technology featured in Sixth of Dusk. We've seen Fabriels on Roshar and technology on Scadrial so it's not hard to see why they are prominently featured in theories about this.

However, it's not hard to imagine that Sel would have technology of this level during the time of Sixth of Dusk. As far as we are aware, Sel has had a rather stable existence over the timespan of the cosmere. Thats a big assumption, but still, Roshar and Scadrial have both faced literal Apocalypses since the times of Elantris/The Emperor's Soul while Kriss had virtually nothing to say about the Selish system in her Arcanum essays other than the idea that "Landscapes are coming Alive"

2. Sel has the biggest reason to develop space travel: They have the hardest time leaving the system through the cognitive realm of all the shardworlds. If any shardworld were to have a good reason for space travel, it would be Sel, and that makes me think that they might be the first shardworld to go to space, meaning they would likely be heavily involved in developing a cosmere-wide system of laws and regulations for space travel.

3. Sel is the Shardworld most accustomed to interacting with a multitude of cultures/civilized development; due to the size of their planet and the number of countries and climates it features. The rules on interacting with peoples who are less advanced, and also the willingness to break those rules therefore make a lot of sense for people from Sel as well.

 

Now, I'm not entirely convinced the Ones Above are from Sel myself, but if Brandon wanted to throw us a curveball which, in hindsight makes a lot of sense. Sel would be that curveball. They've been too stable of a planet, based on what we've seen of them, to not have developed faster, and more effectively than other worlds. Especially considering where Elantris falls on the timeline as a story.

To add to 3): so many Elantrians must've chosen the Pool by this time. The Pool, which we know, is actually Devotion's Perpendicularity. So there must be many Elantrian worldhoppers by this point, like the lighthouse keeper/Hoed from before the Reod.

I previously noted that the Ire seem to have a lot of Realmatic knowledge but seemingly no desire to help Sel flourish. I didn't consider these other Elantrians who might have grown weary of the world and chosen the Pool or otherwise thrown into the Pool. 

Yup, Sel is also a good candidate for the Ones Above.

Edited by Honorless
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11 hours ago, Honorless said:

To add to 3): so many Elantrians must've chosen the Pool by this time. The Pool, which we know, is actually Devotion's Perpendicularity. So there must be many Elantrian worldhoppers by this point, like the lighthouse keeper/Hoed from before the Reod.

I previously noted that the Ire seem to have a lot of Realmatic knowledge but seemingly no desire to help Sel flourish. I didn't consider these other Elantrians who might have grown weary of the world and chosen the Pool or otherwise thrown into the Pool. 

Yup, Sel is also a good candidate for the Ones Above.

Very good point!

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18 hours ago, Honorless said:

So there must be many Elantrian worldhoppers by this point, like the lighthouse keeper/Hoed from before the Reod.

Yes there must be and not all of them would be part of Ire. But @Honorless, since the magic is region locked, these worldhoppers will not have access to magic. How then, do you suppose this helps the idea that Ones above are from Sel?

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24 minutes ago, The traveller said:

Yes there must be and not all of them would be part of Ire. But @Honorless, since the magic is region locked, these worldhoppers will not have access to magic. How then, do you suppose this helps the idea that Ones above are from Sel?

Because Elantris is set thousands of years before the other books. People can learn, the Ire did, as did the lighthouse keeper

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3 hours ago, The traveller said:

Yes there must be and not all of them would be part of Ire. But @Honorless, since the magic is region locked, these worldhoppers will not have access to magic. How then, do you suppose this helps the idea that Ones above are from Sel?

What if they replaced magic with technology? Their forms of space travel could be solely scientific, or based on magical devices from places they've world-hopped to.

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6 minutes ago, Lunu’anaki said:

What if they replaced magic with technology? Their forms of space travel could be solely scientific, or based on magical devices from places they've world-hopped to.

Possible. I suppose if silverlight scholars develop FTL, which why not, it would be using this method only. 
Wow.. I think space era is going to be amazing!!

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