Homeworld of the Ones Above

[Paracosmic_nomenclator]

Spoilers for Sixth of the Dusk, and future series:

 

First off, we know that Sixth of the Dusk takes place farthest forward in time of any Cosmere story. Second, we have a WoB confirming that we've met the Ones Above before in another book. Finally, in interviews, Brandon has said that he plans to do a Mistborn space opera in the future.

All these in mind, I'd like to propose that the Ones Above are, in fact, Scadrians. The only other major contender in my mind are the Selish, and them only because the cognitive realm is nigh inpossible to traverse on Sel.

[Calderis]

This is currently the (tentative) theory with the most support. 

Good eye getting there on your own. 

[Windrunner]

Some things also indicate that they don't all necessarily need to be from the same world. Brandon wrote in someone's book that Sixth has tried chouta and hates it, which indicates to me that at the very least the Ones Aboe also have contact with Roshar.

[ZenBossanova]

23 minutes ago, Windrunner said:

Some things also indicate that they don't all necessarily need to be from the same world. Brandon wrote in someone's book that Sixth has tried chouta and hates it, which indicates to me that at the very least the Ones Aboe also have contact with Roshar.

In the very least. I lean toward them being from Roshar. But Scadrial isn't lightly dismissed either. 

[+Extesian]

Yeah I suspect, given the hints at diverse origins, they're from Silverlight, which with the advent of FTL starts to takes a more expeditionary attitude to the Cosmere, with mostly a Prime Directive attitude but with some looseness, poor differing factions. It could be the Seventeenth Shard but it's pretty interventiony for those guys. But I think it may be an interplanetary alliance rather than just one planet. 

[Paracosmic_nomenclator]

I was under the impression that the occupants of silverlight travelled the Cosmere through the Cognitive Realm, while the Ones Above had some form of starship. While I could be misinterpreting, or the Silverlites' modalities of transport may have changed, the discrepancy leads me to believe they're separate parties

[+Extesian]

4 minutes ago, Paracosmic_nomenclator said:

I was under the impression that the occupants of silverlight travelled the Cosmere through the Cognitive Realm, while the Ones Above had some form of starship. While I could be misinterpreting, or the Silverlites' modalities of transport may have changed, the discrepancy leads me to believe they're separate parties

Yes indeed, but it’s a matter of timing. Faster than light travel will be invented, apparently with Scadrian magic, somewhere between the events of Wax and Wayne, and the events of Sixth of the Dusk. Given the Scadrians will have access to medallions by then (enabling non-Scadrians to use allomancy) the people who actually invent and use FTL spaceships need not be Scadrians. I may be completely wrong of course, but I see no reason why Silverlighters or the Seventeenth Shard wouldn’t use FTL technology once they have it. Sure, perpendicularities are probably faster but than First of the Sun is (according to AU) very dangerous to visit that way. So yeah, I think any organisations like that will mostly use perpendicularities anyway, but if they want to visit First of the Sun, they need a spaceship.

That applies to anyone of course, which is why my idea is speculative.

[Calderis]

9 hours ago, Extesian said:

Yes indeed, but it’s a matter of timing. Faster than light travel will be invented, apparently with Scadrian magic, somewhere between the events of Wax and Wayne, and the events of Sixth of the Dusk. Given the Scadrians will have access to medallions by then (enabling non-Scadrians to use allomancy) the people who actually invent and use FTL spaceships need not be Scadrians. I may be completely wrong of course, but I see no reason why Silverlighters or the Seventeenth Shard wouldn’t use FTL technology once they have it. Sure, perpendicularities are probably faster but than First of the Sun is (according to AU) very dangerous to visit that way. So yeah, I think any organisations like that will mostly use perpendicularities anyway, but if they want to visit First of the Sun, they need a spaceship.

That applies to anyone of course, which is why my idea is speculative.

In addition to this, travel through the Cognitive Realm is still travel. The landscape has to be traversed in order to reach a perpendicularity. 

Once Physical Realm FTL is achieved, depending on it's availability and expense, it may be a preferable mode of travel in most circumstances. 

[teknopathetic]

It would be interesting if a form of Cognitive Realm science was invented to. Surely there must be rules that can be exploited to bring forward FTL ships in the cognitive realm. I know magic sort of can't be used, but the Elantrians have figured out a way to at bring extension cords of investiture into the cognitive realm (though they are unique obviously). 

[Calderis]

1 minute ago, teknopathetic said:

It would be interesting if a form of Cognitive Realm science was invented to. Surely there must be rules that can be exploited to bring forward FTL ships in the cognitive realm. I know magic sort of can't be used, but the Elantrians have figured out a way to at bring extension cords of investiture into the cognitive realm (though they are unique obviously). 

Why couldn't magic be used in the Cognitive Realm? 

[teknopathetic]

Just now, Calderis said:

Why couldn't magic be used in the Cognitive Realm? 

Dont we know that most magics can't be used in the cognitive realm? I will need to actually go find proof of that haha, but I thought minus certain specific powers most magics won't work there. I could be really wrong on that...

[Calderis]

Just now, teknopathetic said:

Dont we know that most magics can't be used in the cognitive realm? I will need to actually go find proof of that haha, but I thought minus certain specific powers most magics won't work there. I could be really wrong on that...

We actually haven't seen it tried other than in one instance 

Secret History spoilers

Spoiler

And Kel's inability to use Allomancy was a side effect of not having a physical body. 

I'll try to dig it up, but I'm sure I've seen a WoB that says Allomancy works in the Cognitive Realm. 

 

[teknopathetic]

3 minutes ago, Calderis said:

We actually haven't seen it tried other than in one instance 

Secret History spoilers

  Hide contents

And Kel's inability to use Allomancy was a side effect of not having a physical body. 

I'll try to dig it up, but I'm sure I've seen a WoB that says Allomancy works in the Cognitive Realm. 

 

True, but when I read secret history I knew it wouldn't work before the magic was tried... Hmmm. Sorry if I am wrong. I am looking right now haha. 

The Ire are no clue because they have a very non-standard relationship with the cognitive realm. 

Edited July 7, 2017 by teknopathetic

[Calderis]

@teknopathetic I can't find the WoB I was talking about, and unfortunately am going to be tied up for a bit. 

So for now I guess my self assurance on magic in the Cognitive Realm is on hiatus. 

[teknopathetic]

I for one like the potential of Awakening: 

"Teleport things" 

Done and Done. It seems ridiculous, but we do have Oath Gates after all. 

Edited July 7, 2017 by teknopathetic

[Nathrangking]

I suspect that they are the scadrians whom wax and company met in the bands of mourning.

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, Nethrangking said:

I suspect that they are the scadrians whom wax and company met in the bands of mourning.

Sixth of the Dusk is the farthest forward in the time line that we've seen. It's very possible that society on Scadrial is very different than we're familiar with at the time of the story. 

I can't find the WoB I want at the moment but there's this one which hints at it being in the future of the Cosmere. 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1182#10

Quote

ARGENT

The essays in Arcanum, how trustworthy are they?

BRANDON SANDERSON

They’re pretty trustworthy, as much as you would trust a scholar nowadays who’s an expert in their field. Do know that they take place before Sixth of the Dusk occurs. These are contemporary with most of the books right now, not contemporary with all the stories in there [Arcanum Unbounded].

ARGENT

Were they all written at the same time?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yeah, same time for a little thing she was doing about the worlds for people.

 

[Farnsworth]

Also, the magic used is a bit like Smoking, but with a machine.

[SilverTiger]

It is also possible that the Ones Above are from another world in the Drominad System (it had 3 inhabited planets, including First of the Sun, and a fourth in the habitable zone). One of the other two human-inhabited planets may be that advanced, it was never mentioned. Source is Arcanum Unbounded.

[Calderis]

37 minutes ago, SilverTiger said:

It is also possible that the Ones Above are from another world in the Drominad System (it had 3 inhabited planets, including First of the Sun, and a fourth in the habitable zone). One of the other two human-inhabited planets may be that advanced, it was never mentioned. Source is Arcanum Unbounded.

Some of the only information on The Ones Above that Brandon has deigned to confirm is that we've seen the planet of The Ones Above before. 

That doesn't narrow down the options much, but it does remove the possibility of small unvisited worlds. 

[SilverTiger]

If you count the Arcanum Unbounded essays, then we have seen those two worlds. Tenuous, but Sanderson can be very tricksy at times, so it is possible.

[Khyrindor]

Except that we got the WoB about the Ones Above being from a world we know a few years before AU came out, so it has to be down to Sel, Roshar, Scadrial, Threnody, Nalthis. I don't think we can even say it's Silverlight, because that WoB indicates "world". Also, Silverlight is a Cognitive Realm city and we don't know if there's something on the physical side or not yet.

[Gigalemesh]

My money is on scadrial. The chouta thing is interesting though, if they are from scadrial it would mean they had also travelled to roshar, or at least picked up a worldhopper who knows how to make chouta. 

[EC11]

Personally I am betting Scadrial as well. When Brandon says we have seen the Ones Above before, he may not mean we have literally seen them in their space faring state, but we may have seen the world their from. That narrows it down to the worlds we currently know. Given the hints regarding the future of Scadrial, we can safely assume that its probably them.

Most likely they have a Prime Directive of sorts, and they are using that as a means of preventing local magic systems and cultures from being unnecessarily upended. It's possible the ones Sixth is dealing with are less scrupulous, or that the governing body of the Ones Above really really wants the Aviar so they're willing to play fast and loose with the rules.

[Feruchemist]

On 7/5/2017 at 10:57 PM, Paracosmic_nomenclator said:

Spoilers for Sixth of the Dusk, and future series:

 

First off, we know that Sixth of the Dusk takes place farthest forward in time of any Cosmere story. Second, we have a WoB confirming that we've met the Ones Above before in another book. Finally, in interviews, Brandon has said that he plans to do a Mistborn space opera in the future.

All these in mind, I'd like to propose that the Ones Above are, in fact, Scadrians. The only other major contender in my mind are the Selish, and them only because the cognitive realm is nigh inpossible to traverse on Sel.

Congratulations, I reached this conclusion on my own just a few months back.  I absolutely support the theory.