The Lost Metal

[Calderis]

38 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Which leaves me to wonder how he became a Fullborn

Do we actually have confirmation that he's Fullborn? We know he is more than he was, and he appeared as the Sovereign A.K.A TLR. No one actually knew the extent of TLRs powers at the time though, and many of those powers would be nonvisible. 

The only Evidence we have for him being Fullborn is the Bands, and without knowing how they were created and that he definitely did it alone, do we actually know that he has all of the Feruchemical abilities? 

[StrikerEZ]

3 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Do we actually have confirmation that he's Fullborn? We know he is more than he was, and he appeared as the Sovereign A.K.A TLR. No one actually knew the extent of TLRs powers at the time though, and many of those powers would be nonvisible. 

The only Evidence we have for him being Fullborn is the Bands, and without knowing how they were created and that he definitely did it alone, do we actually know that he has all of the Feruchemical abilities? 

Ah, sorry. That's true. I forgot he's never been explicitly stated to be a Fullborn. My bad.

But it makes me wonder how he created the Bands otherwise.

[Calderis]

9 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Ah, sorry. That's true. I forgot he's never been explicitly stated to be a Fullborn. My bad.

But it makes me wonder how he created the Bands otherwise.

I've heard others say it too, and I'm pretty sure I've propagated this in the past myself.

I just can't think of anywhere I've seen it asked or confirmed. I was just curious if I'd missed it 

[+Extesian]

I always assumed he would have as few spikes as possible to avoid Shardic interference, and that he would just use them for an anchor to the physical world and a couple of useful compounding powers. And that he had the SoSco's make the Bands.

That said he may be well past a threshold for spiritual interference anyway and is gathering as many powers as he can. 

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Q: If Hemalurgy can be used to transfer Investiture regardless of the planet, is someone gathering pieces of different Investitures the way Hoid for example got lerasium bead.
A:  Yes. 

So I still think he probably wasn't a full feruchemist when the Bands were made and coopted the SoSco's. But I wouldn't be as surprised if he's one now. 

One thing, why do we think full feruchemists didn't survive the catacendre? They still exist in era 2. How would you get a full feruchwmist born from diluted bloodlines? Or did i miss something? We have this WoB and a few like it

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QUESTION

In the prologue in The Alloy of Law, it talks about how the guy actually spikes people to the wall. Is there going to be Hemalurgy involved?

BRANDON SANDERSON

That's a RAFO. Hey, RAFOs! I will say, in Alloy of Law time, Hemalurgy is not well-known and that's not been spread around, and Feruchemy as an art moved like Allomancy did in that you can have just one of the powers. And we decided... Chemings? What did we decide, Peter? Oh, Ferings. We decided Ferings. We couldn't decide bewteen the two of those. It's in the book somewhere. [Editor's note: Um, I don't think so.] But anyway, you can have one Allomantic and one Feruchemical. But not a lot of Mistborn and not a lot of full Feruchemists anymore.

QUESTION

Do you explain how the Feruchemists came back, because at the end there were a lot of eunuchs and...

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yeah, well, that's one of the reasons why Feruchemy has been split because it's very diluted now. The Terris people did survive because they made it. And so, the genetic code is there.

QUESTIONER

And so, every once in a while, hereditarily, the gene will come up.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yeah. But that's why there aren't very many full-blooded Feruchemists anymore. A thousand years of the Lord Ruler trying to breed it out of the population followed by a cataclysm that destroyed most of the population of the world did them in, yeah

I'll try find something more specific

Edit - i thought there was an AoL annotation but doesn't look like it. But if that idea is based off Sazed saying he was the last Keeper, I think that just refers to a feruchemist specialising in coppermind knowledge and teaching

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Q: In Alloy, there are those who use both Allomancy and Feruchemy. However, I recall Sazed in The Hero of Ages stating that he believed he was the last surviving Feruchemist (I think he may have said "Keeper"?). Was he incorrect in his assumption of being the last Feruchemist (based on the fact that people use Feruchemy in Alloy) or could Feruchemy have been recessive in some Terris people?
 
A: It was most certainly recessive. But the specific way Sazed speaks there is important.

 

Edited July 29, 2017 by Extesian

[Calderis]

@Extesianthere's a line in alloy of law, I'll try and remember where, because I don't have an ebook copy to search, that says people are limited to one allomantic and one feruchemical power. 

When we finally learn about the village, it's hinted that the Terris are attempting to track the bloodlines to breed full Feruchemists again. At the time of AoL though, Twinborn appear to be the strongest magical manifestation. 

[+Extesian]

12 minutes ago, Calderis said:

@Extesianthere's a line in alloy of law, I'll try and remember where, because I don't have an ebook copy to search, that says people are limited to one allomantic and one feruchemical power. 

When we finally learn about the village, it's hinted that the Terris are attempting to track the bloodlines to breed full Feruchemists again. At the time of AoL though, Twinborn appear to be the strongest magical manifestation. 

Oh I'm not disputing there are none now. That's because the bllodlines mixed with other people and feruchemy breaks down more easily

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WETLANDERNW

Why do the Twinborn in Alloy of Law have only one feruchemical power, when all previous feruchemists, in spite of breeding programs, could use all the metals? (from travyl) Or were Ferrings always part of the system and we just didn't meet them in Mistborn? (my addition)

BRANDON SANDERSON

The Ferrings are a new development since Mistborn, as the Feruchemistshave been interbreeding with the Allomancers. Basically, the Allomancy genes interfere with the Feruchemistry genes, breaking it down and creating the limitations we see in Alloy of Law. (His response to this was really fun—he found it a very perceptive question, and enjoyed talking about it. I wish I'd had my recorder handy so I could give you the full transcript instead of the boiled-down version.)

What I'm saying is that full feruchemists survived the catacendre but there weren't enough to only interbreed, they had to breed with non-feruchemists diluting the line so that within a generation or two none were left. I feel like it's unlikely so many ferrings would have manifested without feruchemists in the first place. I also feel it's highly unlikely the inquisitors would have killed every last one. 

But that's based on the known knowns. Could be unknown knowns and unknown unknowns...

[Calderis]

14 hours ago, Extesian said:

What I'm saying is that full feruchemists survived the catacendre

Was looking for something else in the annotations and came across this. Other than Sazed, Ruin did hunt down all the living Feruchemists.

 From HoA ch. 22 annotation. 

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The Last Feruchemist?

Sazed is likely not the last Feruchemist. The Lord Ruler tried for a long time to breed Feruchemy out of the population, and it’s highly unlikely that now the power would simply vanish because the living Feruchemists were killed. The genetic trait is still there, suppressed in the population, but it would eventually resurface.

That’s not to say that the loss of the Synod wasn’t a blow. That many living Feruchemists suddenly killed would wipe out a large segment of the population who could have bred Feruchemy true. However, the fact that many of the Synod were eunuchs made their usefulness in that regard less important.

Remember, however, that Sazed is struggling with depression. It’s easier for him to see things in a depressing light than it is to see them in a positive light.

 

[+Extesian]

6 hours ago, Calderis said:

Was looking for something else in the annotations and came across this. Other than Sazed, Ruin did hunt down all the living Feruchemists.

 From HoA ch. 22 annotation. 

 

 And i read that 2 weeks ago i thought the wording was vaguer and implied sazed may have been wrong about being the last living feruchemist 'presently' not just forever. Thanks C i can put that to rest 

[AbsentKeeper]

On 7/28/2017 at 5:20 PM, Calderis said:

Do we actually have confirmation that he's Fullborn? We know he is more than he was, and he appeared as the Sovereign A.K.A TLR. No one actually knew the extent of TLRs powers at the time though, and many of those powers would be nonvisible. 

The only Evidence we have for him being Fullborn is the Bands, and without knowing how they were created and that he definitely did it alone, do we actually know that he has all of the Feruchemical abilities? 

Actually, in BoM, Jordis tells Wax that the sovereign only taught them to make the heat storing medallions, and that they used the technology he left to figure out the rest. That means he really only needed access to brass and nicrosil feruchemy to do what he did, if even that. We still don't know anything about the mysterious 'excisor' machines.

Edit: I'm dumb, you're talking about the actual bands. Yeah, I have no clue how that would be done without being fullborn, or at least having both a full feurchemist and a Mistborn to help.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Cowmanthethird

[Kingsdaughter613]

It's more complicated than that. The Bands had to be created by one person. Otherwise the powers interfere with one another. (Three abilities from three people seem to be the maximum.) It could possibly be done by two: a Mistborn and a Feruchemist. But there were no Feruchemists in the South ever, and the ones in the North were dead. 

Though my big question is HOW did F Alluminum get into the bands?! I'm guessing compounding played a role but this one's a real mystery.

[17th Splinter]

What if Kell became a full born during his time holding preservations shard? Maybe because he was so connected to ruin, and held preservations power, he became a feruchemist as well as a mistborn. Or another possibility is simply that he learned how to make himself a feruchemist while holding the Shard similar to how TLR knew how to use hemalurgy