Calderis Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 On my reread I came across the elderly woman who is Paliah, and reading it now with the knowledge makes it funny how Brandon chose to word this paragraph. Quote A light flickering through nearby bookcases startled her, and she tucked away her folio. It turned out to be just an old, berobed female ardent, shuffling with a lantern and followed by a parshman servant. She didn’t look in Shallan’s direction as she turned between two rows of shelves, her lantern’s light shining out through the spaces between the books. Lit that way—with her figure hidden but the light streaming between the shelves—it looked as if one of the Heralds themselves were walking through the stacks. He definitely did that intentionally. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Calderis said: He definitely did that intentionally. We're still missing Chana, so if he pulls that kinda imagery again, I think we have our suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 1 minute ago, The One Who Connects said: We're still missing Chana, so if he pulls that kinda imagery again, I think we have our suspect. I'll keep my eyes open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 49 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said: We're still missing Chana, so if he pulls that kinda imagery again, I think we have our suspect. Given Fleet was famed for beating Chana in a race, look for someone with hints of unnatural speed or anything dustbringery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiamondMind Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 Came across this and I'm not sure if I completely agree, but I thought it would be a good exercise to expand the foolish qualities with some extrapolation. Red is what I think we've seen, yellow is conjecture. I do think it's important that the Heralds don't just manifest the opposite of their attribute, but that it's twisted somehow. I couldn't think of a twist for every trait though. Herald. (Fool) Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protection Abandonment Leading False Leadership Nale. Just Perversion of Justice Confident Brash/No doubt Chanarach. Brave. Cowardly Obedient Rebellious Vedel. Loving. Hateful Healing Wounding Paliah. (Cabine) Learned. Ignorant Giving Taunting/Withholding Shalash. Creative. Destructive of creations Honest Silent/Hates questions Battar. (Eshu) Wise. Foolish Careful Thoughtless Kalak. Resolute. Weak-willed Builder Undermines Talenel. Dependable. Untrustworthy Resourceful Helps badly Ishar. Pious. False faith Guiding Leading astray 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuffel Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 On 8/7/2017 at 1:20 PM, DiamondMind said: Came across this and I'm not sure if I completely agree, but I thought it would be a good exercise to expand the foolish qualities with some extrapolation. Red is what I think we've seen, yellow is conjecture. I do think it's important that the Heralds don't just manifest the opposite of their attribute, but that it's twisted somehow. I couldn't think of a twist for every trait though. Herald. (Fool) Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protection Abandonment Leading False Leadership Nale. Just Perversion of Justice Confident Brash/No doubt Chanarach. Brave. Cowardly Obedient Rebellious Vedel. Loving. Hateful Healing Wounding Paliah. (Cabine) Learned. Ignorant Giving Taunting/Withholding Shalash. Creative. Destructive of creations Honest Silent/Hates questions Battar. (Eshu) Wise. Foolish Careful Thoughtless Kalak. Resolute. Weak-willed Builder Undermines Talenel. Dependable. Untrustworthy Resourceful Helps badly Ishar. Pious. False faith Guiding Leading astray I think you have the Fool attribute for Ishar correct. There is a quote in WOR (paraphrasing, I cannot find the quote), it went sorta like this, "I felt like a fool believing in something even though there was evidence against it". I wish i had the exact quote or even remembered who said it (sorry only have Audible). I would love if someone knows the quote I am talking about. Even though this quote doesn't reference the 10 fools specifically it was laid out in a similar format as the other mentionings of the 10 fools. Hearing the quote I mentioned above, and the mentioning of Ishar providing false knowledge to Nale in Edgedancer. I believe you have the primary fool attribute for Ishar correct. Sorry for the bad grammar & spelling, english is my second language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 (edited) I believe the Fool attribute was Cabin, who talks about what he does not understand in front of those who do. (Referring to Kaladin's now-shattered prejudices re: Shallan) Edited August 11, 2017 by Landis963 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuffel Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 2 hours ago, Landis963 said: I believe the Fool attribute was Cabin, who talks about what he does not understand in front of those who do. (Referring to Kaladin's now-shattered prejudices re: Shallan) I know the quote you are talking about, in that quote the 10 fools are mentioned and so is Cabin. The quote I am talking about, the 10 fools wasn't mentioned and either was the fools name. It had something to do with believing in something even when there is evidence against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeMarshall Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 This really is a good theory. I think most of it could be accurate. To clarify. Do we have a definitive answer on this? Am I correct in supposing it happened in this order: 1. Aharietiam 2. The Recreance 3. Honor is Splintered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said: This really is a good theory. I think most of it could be accurate. To clarify. Do we have a definitive answer on this? Am I correct in supposing it happened in this order: 1. Aharietiam 2. The Recreance 3. Honor is Splintered Yeah that's the canon order. With Recreance ancient but seemingly a while after Aharietiam and the splintering an unknown time after the Recreance. Quote ARGENT In terms of timeline-- So The Way of Kings and the Stormlight Archive takes place 1173-4 right now, how far ago, approximately, was the Recreance? BRANDON SANDERSON So you-- Let’s see-- Heralds leave at what, 4500? ARGENT That’s what it says. BRANDON SANDERSON So the Heralds leave at 4500 and we’re at 11-- ARGENT So we are at 5500 years after-- BRANDON SANDERSON Yeah. So Recreance is more recent than late. ARGENT So… In the thousands-- BRANDON SANDERSON I’m going to have to pull out the timeline. ARGENT But it’s not like three hundred years ago. BRANDON SANDERSON It’s not like three hundred years ago, but it’s also not like 4000 years ago. ARGENT Okay, so from the middle-- BRANDON SANDERSON The Hierocracy happened after and the Hierocracy was a couple hundred years ago. It’s longer than that even, it’s like five or six hundred years ago I think. Quote QUESTION Was Honor Shattered before or after the Recreance? BRANDON SANDERSON I believe after. I'm pretty sure. I mean, he has memories of the Recreance. Quote ZAS678 How long ago was the Recreance from modern day or from the Heirocracy? BRANDON SANDERSON The Heirocracy is in recent history, the Recreance is in ancient history. Edited August 14, 2017 by Extesian WoBs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveLate Posted August 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) @DiamondMind I like your ideas, but I still think only the Primary Attribute is being corrupted for the following reasons. On 5/31/2017 at 7:20 PM, FiveLate said: Herald. Primary Divine Attribute. Secondary Divine Attribute. Jezrien. Protecting. (Submission) Leading Nale. Just. (Arbitrary)(Judgement) Confident Chanarach. Brave. Obedient Vedel. Loving. Healing Paliah. Learned. Giving Shalash. Creative. (Destructive) Honest Battar. Wise. Careful Kalak. Resolute. (Weak-willed) Builder Talenel. Dependable. (Erratic) Resourceful Ishar. Pious. (Traitorous) Guiding Jezrien is still considered a leader among most religions on Roshar, and he was the one that waited for Kalak in the prologue. Nale is definitely very confident in his task of killing proto gradients. Don't have much for Ash except she is honest in what she wants destroyed. Nothing for Kalak without more research. Even as erratic as Taln has been shown, he shows some resourcefulness in the infiltration scene. Now Ish I is definitely still trying to guide all the others down a specific path. Mostly it is Nale and Ish I who make me lean towards the primary corruption only... @Shuffel I think the quote your referring to is in Edgedancer...I'll try to find it. @Drake Marshall yes that is sequence...times are debatable, but I am working on a timeline post....takes awhile to collect and cite all the posts and WOB, but basically the big point will be that there was less than 1000 years of desolation. Edited August 14, 2017 by FiveLate Ninga'd by @extension 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeMarshall Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) Hmmm... Here's an interesting prediction about the oathpact. What if it was some kind of cosmic "bet" between Honor and Odium? The shards are bound by some kind of rules, what if the Oathpact was basically a contract? So, what if, for example, Honor gave Odium 10 tries to destroy Roshar. If Odium succeeded, he could go on to ravage the cosmere. If he failed, he would have to stay trapped on Braize. So Odium makes 9 attempts to desolate Roshar, and fails 9 times. On the 9th time, he manages to get 9 of the heralds to break, and abandon the oathpact. Which is great news. Except he only has 1 attempt left. And there's still 1 herald maintaining the oathpact. And there's still all those pesky radiants, who would be able to put up a good fight if another desolation rolled around. So, Odium realizes he needs to take a new approach. So he waits. He waits so long that the radiants are all gone, a mere memory. He waits so long that all the heralds are raving mad and laughably useless against the desolation. Then he lets it loose, after humanity is no longer prepared. And it is the Final Desolation. His last chance, but he's going to make it count. This is probably unlikely, but it would be a cool twist for the Oathpact Edited August 14, 2017 by Drake Marshall 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemetha Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 28 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said: Hmmm... Here's an interesting prediction about the oathpact. What if it was some kind of cosmic "bet" between Honor and Odium? The shards are bound by some kind of rules, what if the Oathpact was basically a contract? It would seem unlikely. We have confirmation that Odium wasn't a party to the original oathpact. http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1080#15 Quote Question () How many parties were there to the original Oathpact? Brandon Sanderson The Heralds and Honor. They thought that by walking away from their oaths, that it would break the Oathpact. They're going to find out that it's not quite as broken as they had previously thought (meaning the Heralds). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuffel Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 @FiveLate It's in the back half of WOR. I just did a re listen. I will try to find it as well. I think it was meant to be more hidden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTiger Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 On 8/14/2017 at 2:50 AM, FiveLate said: @DiamondMind I like your ideas, but I still think only the Primary Attribute is being corrupted for the following reasons. Jezrien is still considered a leader among most religions on Roshar, and he was the one that waited for Kalak in the prologue. Nale is definitely very confident in his task of killing proto gradients. Don't have much for Ash except she is honest in what she wants destroyed. Nothing for Kalak without more research. Even as erratic as Taln has been shown, he shows some resourcefulness in the infiltration scene. Now Ish I is definitely still trying to guide all the others down a specific path. Mostly it is Nale and Ish I who make me lean towards the primary corruption only... @Shuffel I think the quote your referring to is in Edgedancer...I'll try to find it. @Drake Marshall yes that is sequence...times are debatable, but I am working on a timeline post....takes awhile to collect and cite all the posts and WOB, but basically the big point will be that there was less than 1000 years of desolation. I agree with your theory, but I have something to add concerning Nalan. There is actually a subtle difference between Justice and Judgment that I would like to explain. Judgment is basically, if someone is guilty, this is the punishment that the law says they should receive. Justice is a mixture of Judgment and Mercy. Also, your evidence that only one attribute is being twisted is good- Nalan is very confident, and Ishar is guiding him, but I wouldn't be so quick to assume it is the first one listed- that is a bit too predictable, and for all we know, the order in which they are listed is random, or can change. And I would like to point out that the person Nalan was talking to in WoR prologue, who is commonly believed to be Kalak, was very anxious and worried, which would fit if his "Resolute" is twisted. Also, the opposite of loving is actually complete selfishness. If you love, you care, if you are selfish, you don't care. Even hatred requires caring. So, Vedel could be really selfish or uncaring, or maybe a murderer or sadist. Which is... comforting, that one of the storming HERALDS OF THE ALMIGHTY might be a serial killer. Great. Just, great. To finish, I think this theory is a good one. Especially the Heralds=Fools bit. That was brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTiger Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 (edited) Can I necro this thread, since OB is coming soon? It will surely bring more evidence about the Heralds, since Brandon did say that he wrote Edgedance so we could see what caused Darkness to change his mind. To me, that evidence indicates Darkness will show up in OB, possibly as Nalan'Elin to help Dalinar & co. in Urithiru. --Edit-- Annnd I was the last person to post earlier. A double post and a necro, just great. Sorry! Edited October 20, 2017 by SilverTiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Well, now that it's been necroed... evidence for both attributes being twisted is Jezrien, who is implied to be basically out of commission 99% of the time. And might be that drunk we see in WoK. Also, WoB heavily implied -unintentionally- that we have seen Chana on page. It was the WoB about seeing the Radiant Orders and Dustbringers being weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScavellTane Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Are the Unmade the Heralds sans Taln? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 6 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: Also, WoB heavily implied -unintentionally- that we have seen Chana on page. It was the WoB about seeing the Radiant Orders and Dustbringers being weird. 'Twas this one from Peter that sealed the deal on Chana: Quote 55. PeterAhlstrom Chanaranach has definitely been seen onscreen by at least one character at least one time in the first two books. The one you're thinking of implied.. multiple things, but not what you think it did. Quote Questioner: Have we-- I think you mentioned in a previous signing that we’d already met one member of every Order of the Knights Radiant. Brandon: Yes, I think you have. Questioner: Is one of the Dustbringers a viewpoint character? Brandon: One of the Dustbringers is eventually a point-of-view character. Questioner: Haven’t been yet? Brandon: Nnnnoooo, not yet, I don’t think. But it depends if you count the Heralds as members of their order. Questioner: I don’t. Brandon: Oh, see I would, because they’re kind of heads of their Order. If you don’t count them you have not met some from every Order. Questioner: [Have we met someone from the Dustbringers?] Brandon: Well… Dustbringers are really complicated. /Really/ complicated. So that’s the weird one. Okay? So let’s shelve that one. You’ll see why it’s really weird later on. Yellow: A Dustbringer PoV Character is a Herald, who has not had a PoV in the books yet. (Not Kalak or Taln)Green: We've met a member of every KR Order, if you count the Heralds as parts of their Order. (Doesn't specify which Order)Purple: The Dustbringer that we've met is.. complicated and weird. (Doesn't really tell us much) Even taken together, they don't directly or indirectly imply that much. We've met a Dustbringer, but it's complicated. I wouldn't consider the Dustbringer Herald as "complicated," would you? 2 hours ago, ScavellTane said: Are the Unmade the Heralds sans Taln? The Unmade are separate entities from the Heralds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 @The One Who Connects, I though Shallash was going to eventually become a dustbringer, to make the 10 pov characters from 10 different orders. She already has the art destruction thing going on, and being tortured in Damnation is enough to break her so she can be a mundane member of the Dustbringers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Just now, john203 said: @The One Who Connects, I though Shallash was going to eventually become a dustbringer, to make the 10 pov characters from 10 different orders. She already has the art destruction thing going on, and being tortured in Damnation is enough to break her so she can be a mundane member of the Dustbringers. That's a theory that has some merit, but no actual proof. Per Brandon, each book will center around an Order, but the main character doesn't have to be of that Order. Quote INTERVIEW: Sep 4th, 2014 Salt Lake City Comic-Con 2014 (Verbatim) QUESTION What are the other books in The Stormlight Archive going to be about? BRANDON SANDERSON Well each book is going to cover a flashback sequence for one of the characters and each book will focus on a different order of the Knights Radiant. And that's not always the same, like the flashbacks for the first one were Kaladin and it was also Windrunners, but we won't always have them be the exact same. The wording of the WoB is open-ended enough that the PoV character doesn't even have to be in a KR Order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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