kais

Lounge II (The Lounge Strikes Back)

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22 hours ago, Snakenaps said:

 

Now I'm in Draft Four, and I'm really going at it. I keep four documents open at once: Scrivener with the manuscript, @shatteredsmooth's customized revision outline (which I can send you a copy if you are interested), @kais's arc checklist, and the comments from RE.

If these are going around, I could definitely use them. Thanks. :) 

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30 minutes ago, sniperfrog said:

If these are going around, I could definitely use them. Thanks. :) 

Shoot me a PM so I don't forget. I'm not at my computer at the moment. 

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3 hours ago, Snakenaps said:

Shoot me a PM so I don't forget. I'm not at my computer at the moment. 

Ooo. Me as well! I'll send a PM.

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@Snakenaps why not just post them to the Lounge here so everyone can see?

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On 12/31/2020 at 8:36 PM, Snakenaps said:

Now I'm in Draft Four, and I'm really going at it. I keep four documents open at once: Scrivener with the manuscript, @shatteredsmooth's customized revision outline (which I can send you a copy if you are interested),

I'm glad you find it helpful!

On 12/31/2020 at 8:47 AM, Sarah B said:

A question for all the multi-drafters out there who don't mind sharing their process:

How do you start a radically new draft that still needs to hit roughly the same beats?

Do you re-read the old draft before starting each section of the new, keep them side by side on screen, or reverse outline?

Or options d-z? 

I usually have two documents I go back and forth between. I'll have two docs open, though not necessarily side by side and will do a mix of copy pasting and just writing new things, patching them together as necessary. 

My process seems to evolve a little each time I write a new book, so if I were to summarize it in general, it wouldn't  be 100% accurate for everything. So I'll outline the process I went through for novel that got into Pitch Wars .

1. Spent a month writing a chaotic first draft. I didn't so any outlining and only made a few general notes about the concept. 

2. left it alone for a month or two.

3. Read over what I wrote and made notes. 

4. Opened a new document and copy pasted a chapter, made changes, copy pasted the next etc. 

5. Got feedback on the first few chapters. 

6. Revised the opening chapters and did another pass over the book to adjust for any ripples the opening revisions caused. 

7. Sent the book through RE in 5,000 word increments. Each week, I'd read over the 5,000 word segment and make some little changes, then send it in. At the end of the week, I'd print the feedback and annotate it. After I'd annotate the feedback, I'd save a copy of the chapter, usually something like Ch. 2_post RE and make changes in that doc. When I got through the whole ms, then I went chapter by chapter, compiling them into one document, and made more revisions in the process. 

8. Sent to beta readers. 

9. Printed and annotated beta reader feedback. Also, I made a list of changes I planned to make. 

10. Copy pasted stuff into a new doc 1 chapter at time, making changes to that chapter before brining in the next. 

11. Line edit. 

12. I thought I was done, so I started querying agents. The rejections made me think I hadn't actually fixed certain problems, so I saved a copy and read through it, looking for things to change. Personalized rejections indicated I still hadn't fixed something. 

13: Entered pitch wars and got in. Pitch Wars is a mentorship program that ends with a showcase of work for literally agents to look at and request material from. 

14: When my mentor sent be feedback, I had to make and send a revision outline. This is what Katie is referencing. I wrote a 2-4 sentence summary of what happened in the chapter, bullet points of what changes I planned to make, and a 2-4 sentence summary of the beat and emotional arc of the chapter. With other manuscripts, I've made notes like this while marking up a printed copy of the story, but it was hand written notes at the end of the chapter. This was my first time putting it all in one document as a formal outline. At this point, I also went back and typed up character bios and backstory. I also put together some world-building notes. Both things I should've done between the 1st and second draft. 

15. When I revised, I did keep the bones of the story, but was changing a lot, so I went chapter by chapter, writing new content where necessary and copy pasting when I was keeping a section or just making smaller changes to it. Once I had a 50 or 60 page section done, I'd printed it, mark it up with colorful pens, save as, and then put the changes new doc. 

Now I'm waiting to hear back from my mentor. I'll get some more feedback and hopefully line edits. If there isn't going to  be major rewriting, I won't so the copy paste thing. I'll just "save as" and start making changes in the document. 

 

Overall, the parts of the process that changed over time have to do with how many cycles off feedback I go through, and whether it's alpha readers then beta readers, or RE and then beta readers. I've made outlines for some of my more recent stories before I drafted, though I didn't always stick with the outline. 

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52 minutes ago, kais said:

@Snakenaps why not just post them to the Lounge here so everyone can see?

Because I am an idiot and simply didn't think about it. 

Should I post them here or under The Business of Writing and Publishing? 

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8 minutes ago, Snakenaps said:

Should I post them here or under The Business of Writing and Publishing? 

I'd say here since everyone is looking here already?

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In case anyone thought that @Mandamon's D-verse was a non-contact sport, I can assure you it's not. Just have some friends around you when you go in, to cover you if you roll snake eyes (again) :rolleyes: 

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4 minutes ago, Robinski said:

In case anyone thought that @Mandamon's D-verse was a non-contact sport, I can assure you it's not. Just have some friends around you when you go in, to cover you if you roll snake eyes (again) :rolleyes: 

Lol. That was a fun game. I always find it's better when someone fails miserably at a roll at least once. That's when the fun stuff happens!

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22 minutes ago, Mandamon said:

Lol. That was a fun game. I always find it's better when someone fails miserably at a roll at least once. That's when the fun stuff happens!

A bit of context, please. Or is this an inside joke? :)

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10 minutes ago, Turin Turambar said:

A bit of context, please. Or is this an inside joke? :)

I'm working on a Dissolutionverse-themed RPG and played a session with some of the RE folks who'd read the books. Ironing out the rules for the game to maybe publish it sometime!

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Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, Mandamon said:

I always find it's better when someone fails miserably at a roll at least once.

'Once', you say. I am unfamiliar with the concept of this 'once' that you speak of...

5ff182b03f774_ScreenShot2021-01-03at08_38_47.png.173cb148a7722286389638d738cbbc41.png

Edited by Robinski
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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, Robinski said:

'Once', you say. I am unfamiliar with the concept of this 'once' that you speak of...

:lol:

(For those who are wondering, @Robinski has a...complicated relationship with dice.)

Edited by Mandamon
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5 hours ago, Mandamon said:

:lol:

(For those who are wondering, @Robinski has a...complicated relationship with dice.)

I've threatened to make him new ones on several occasions. Apparently, I need to stock up on d8 silicone molds.

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Do any of you have thoughts on when to tag submissions with things like gore or language when readers' tolerances for things can vary so much? I figure language is easy enough to just be overcautious and tag it for any occurrences, then specify mildness or severity in the intro.  

I see gore as harder to have an objective limit on, though. 

Are there rough standards that lost people here tend to follow, or do any of you have thoughts on how you choose what to tag for more subjective things? 

I am almost definitely overthinking this, but I figured I'd mention it in case this conversation has happened before and I just can't find it :D

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Posted (edited)

I think that the best way to be about it is if you feel there might be a call for tags, then probably it is a good idea to include them. Better to tag too much then not enough, IMO.

Edited by sniperfrog
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Posted (edited)

45 minutes ago, C_Vallion said:

Do any of you have thoughts on when to tag submissions with things like gore or language when readers' tolerances for things can vary so much?

I like to use the Grandma Scale for language, gore, violence, etc.

Would your submission upset this sweet, cookie-toting Grandma?

Spoiler

nuksljmp9x151.jpg.2374b9a83a970add46bc8e9bf137cb18.jpg

If your submission has her clutching her pearls or, worse, fainting...you probably need to tag it. 

Edited by Snakenaps
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46 minutes ago, C_Vallion said:

Do any of you have thoughts on when to tag submissions with things like gore or language when readers' tolerances for things can vary so much? I figure language is easy enough to just be overcautious and tag it for any occurrences, then specify mildness or severity in the intro.  

 

Definitely better to over tag than under tag. 

And I don't think you don't need to get specific about whether it's a little gore or a lot of gore, just say gore. 

2 minutes ago, Snakenaps said:

Would your submission upset this sweet, cookie-toting Grandma?

 

Even when I click "Reveal hidden contents" I cannot see the Grandma. 

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4 minutes ago, shatteredsmooth said:

Even when I click "Reveal hidden contents" I cannot see the Grandma.

Apparently no cookies for you then.

Let me try again:nuksljmp9x151.jpg.edb02a915381c210ea14bb6900831b97.jpg

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I don’t know... I’m a therapist and sometimes those little old grannies are pretty raunchy- I have stories for daaays.

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39 minutes ago, Valerie said:

I don’t know... I’m a therapist and sometimes those little old grannies are pretty raunchy- I have stories for daaays.

Hah! Gonna say.  I have one cookie-making grandma and one who was very much not a cookie-making grandma. But neither would find many things worthy of pearl-clutching.

I do have a friend who I could probably substitute in for the archetypal pearl-clutching granny, though, which will have to work.  Thanks @Snakenaps

That being said, you guys all pretty much repeated my own thoughts (I figured I was worrying about it more than I had to.  But what else are brains for?).  I mostly just figured it was worth checking before going with my default decision of being overcautious. 

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1 hour ago, Valerie said:

I don’t know... I’m a therapist and sometimes those little old grannies are pretty raunchy- I have stories for daaays.

 

42 minutes ago, C_Vallion said:

Hah! Gonna say.  I have one cookie-making grandma and one who was very much not a cookie-making grandma. But neither would find many things worthy of pearl-clutching.

See, this is why I put a photo of cookie grandma. Because I didn't want you picturing these two:

766cedf7dc331b6bb8b6c75530228dad9145f758

And these two aren't stock photos...they're DJ's

I want to adopt them.

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38 minutes ago, Snakenaps said:

And these two aren't stock photos...they're DJ's

That is amazing. 

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