Lord Bookwyrm

Hemalurgy? hmmmmm...

9 posts in this topic

OK, so I was reading the Coppermind when I came across this:

Hemalurgy can be used anywhere in the Cosmere[9], as long there is an intent to create a Hemalurgic spike. Hemalurgy can also steal attributes from other forms of Investiture.[10] Hemalurgy can be used on animals.

So,  a few thoughts. The kandra blessings (iron, tin, zinc and copper - strenth, senses, emotional stability and fortitude and intelligence and memory) give sentience to kandra, which have no prior form of conciousness. Could this mean cows could fly around on metal and talk to other cows, and eventually take over mankind as the top of the food chain and claim dominion over the land, plants and animals?

Personally, I think this is a bit of a long shot, but still.

Since the magic focus of Scadrial is metal, and Ruin resides on Scadrial (in the form of Harmony), would all Hemalurgy throughout the Cosmere be done with metal? Or would it be done with the magic focus of the planet in question? If so, what about on planets that aren't Shardworlds (I mean, there have to be at least a few, right?), would you have to use metal, or the magic focus of the nearest Shardworld? If trying to Steal surgebinding from a KR, would I have to stab the spren as well as the person to get the surgebinding abilities?

I think the first parts are plausible, but if asked, Brandon would probably reply with a RAFO.

It says that Hemalurgy can be used anywhere in the Cosmere, but never says that it can't be used anywhere else. Think of what people could do with this kind of stuff! Epics would be lying in the street, dead, because people want their powers. Anyone could become an Epic! Rithmatists would no longer be special, and would probably be hunted by people who wanted their powers. I mean, yeah, you could just set up a ton of lines of forbiddance to stop anyone from crossing, but they don't last forever.

This leads me to my next point. What would happen if someone had a copper spike, but then someone else spiked them with a different spike, then put that inside themselves (that sounded really wrong)? Would they get the intelligence of both people, or just the one they spiked, and to get the other one they had to take the spike out and put it in themselves?

Creating a Hemalurgic charge requires physical injury, but death is not a requirement to charge the spike.[2] This would leave the donor in a similar spiritual condition to a Drab, but in a worse condition

OK, so we already know that the way hemalurgy works is by taking part of someone's spiritDNA and putting it into someone else. However, the person it was taken from is not required to die. So, part of the person is gone, and since hemalurgy=ruin, and ruin is ruin, the person who remains is probably someone who's had all the good sucked out of their lives, leaving a person with depression, hopeless, etc. kind of like what happens to a person when they are subject to the Dementor's Kiss, but still has a soul, and so can do stuff, but probably in an evil-got-nothing-to-lose-so-i-can-do-anything kind of way. Remind me to stay away from them.

There were probably a few more things I was thinking of, but for the moment, I've forgotten them. So for now, this is all you've got, but it's pretty ggod stuff, if i do say so myself. Anyway, thanks for reading this.

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At last I have found you Lord Bookworm!

Make sure you keep your promise and only borrow Words of Radiance Part 2.

At this point, you probably know who I am:lol:

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22 minutes ago, Gudbrand said:

At last I have found you Lord Bookworm!

 

21 minutes ago, Gudbrand said:

Make sure you keep your promise and only borrow Words of Radiance Part 2.

 

20 minutes ago, Gudbrand said:

At this point, you probably know who I am:lol:

Deliberate triple posting is not welcome. Please stop.

I have merged your 3 posts into one. Next time you might get a warning.

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11 minutes ago, Lord Bookworm said:

It says that Hemalurgy can be used anywhere in the Cosmere, but never says that it can't be used anywhere else. Think of what people could do with this kind of stuff! Epics would be lying in the street, dead, because people want their powers. Anyone could become an Epic! Rithmatists would no longer be special, and would probably be hunted by people who wanted their powers. I mean, yeah, you could just set up a ton of lines of forbiddance to stop anyone from crossing, but they don't last forever.

Neither of these two are Cosmere, so this is not a concern. I suppose a hemalurgy-like power could exist in the Reckonerverse. (Calamity)

Spoiler

It does.

We haven't seen enough of Rithmatist to say either way. In any case, it would not be hemalurgy, and as the different universes operate on different fundamental mechanics, no real links can be established.

11 minutes ago, Lord Bookworm said:

Since the magic focus of Scadrial is metal, and Ruin resides on Scadrial (in the form of Harmony), would all Hemalurgy throughout the Cosmere be done with metal? Or would it be done with the magic focus of the planet in question? If so, what about on planets that aren't Shardworlds (I mean, there have to be at least a few, right?), would you have to use metal, or the magic focus of the nearest Shardworld? If trying to Steal surgebinding from a KR, would I have to stab the spren as well as the person to get the surgebinding abilities?

My opinion is that metal will always be the focus of hemalurgy as it is specifically the interaction between the Scadrial and Ruin which created it. No other manifestation of investiture appears to change focus by the world it is on, and I don't see why hemalurgy should either, even though it is slightly different.

13 minutes ago, Lord Bookworm said:

I think the first parts are plausible, but if asked, Brandon would probably reply with a RAFO.

This has been done.

Quote

SILVERBLADE5

Would hemalurgy on roshar require spikes to be made of gemstones?

BRANDON SANDERSON

RAFO.
[Source]

 

16 minutes ago, Lord Bookworm said:

So,  a few thoughts. The kandra blessings (iron, tin, zinc and copper - strenth, senses, emotional stability and fortitude and intelligence and memory) give sentience to kandra, which have no prior form of conciousness. Could this mean cows could fly around on metal and talk to other cows, and eventually take over mankind as the top of the food chain and claim dominion over the land, plants and animals?

Yes, it is possible to grant sapience to non-sapient creatures. However, I will note that how kandra obtain from sapience is in a unique manner, as their spikes do not grant increased intelligence. Rather, the spikes overcome a mental block which elevates them to sapience, essentially a side effect to the actual power the spikes grant. For other species you would need to specifically create copper spikes for intelligence and give them to the entities in question. 

Note: Mistwraiths are already sentient. The spikes just cause them to be sapient as a side effect.

19 minutes ago, Lord Bookworm said:

Would they get the intelligence of both people, or just the one they spiked, and to get the other one they had to take the spike out and put it in themselves?

So you're asking whether you would be able to steal the hemalurgically-granted boon using hemalurgy? I have discussed this before, and reached no real conclusion. I think we would need a bit more information regarding the what is happening spiritually between the spike and the spiked person. My gut feeling is that you can't.

21 minutes ago, Lord Bookworm said:

Creating a Hemalurgic charge requires physical injury, but death is not a requirement to charge the spike.[2] This would leave the donor in a similar spiritual condition to a Drab, but in a worse condition

The spiritual damage would actually kill people usually even if the physical damage didn't. I think. I can't find a source for this so don't quote me on it, but I think it is more recent than that old drab one.

23 minutes ago, Lord Bookworm said:

the person who remains is probably someone who's had all the good sucked out of their lives, leaving a person with depression, hopeless, etc. kind of like what happens to a person when they are subject to the Dementor's Kiss, but still has a soul, and so can do stuff, but probably in an evil-got-nothing-to-lose-so-i-can-do-anything kind of way.

No reason, as far as I can, to think a survivor of hemalurgy, however that occurs, would be emotionally compromised somehow. Honestly, I can see it as Ruin preferring that people don't become depressed like that, as it just kind of halts their actions, and keeps them static. He prefers active people who are attempting to make changes, whom he can then manipulate to make changes which suit him. Also, the person subject to hemalurgy would have a compromised soul.

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7 hours ago, Mestiv said:
8 hours ago, Gudbrand said:

 

Deliberate triple posting is not welcome. Please stop.

I have merged your 3 posts into one. Next time you might get a warning.

Why is triple posting bad?

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3 minutes ago, ILuvHats said:

Why is triple posting bad?

Forum rules. No double posting. There's an edit function. If your the last post in a thread and have more to say, add to the post instead of bloating the thread with additional posts/pages.

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22 hours ago, Lord Bookworm said:

Creating a Hemalurgic charge requires physical injury, but death is not a requirement to charge the spike.[2] This would leave the donor in a similar spiritual condition to a Drab, but in a worse condition

21 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

The spiritual damage would actually kill people usually even if the physical damage didn't. I think. I can't find a source for this so don't quote me on it, but I think it is more recent than that old drab one.

No reason, as far as I can, to think a survivor of hemalurgy, however that occurs, would be emotionally compromised somehow. Honestly, I can see it as Ruin preferring that people don't become depressed like that, as it just kind of halts their actions, and keeps them static. He prefers active people who are attempting to make changes, whom he can then manipulate to make changes which suit him. Also, the person subject to hemalurgy would have a compromised soul.

OK, so I found the relevant quote on the Coppermind. So yeah.

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7 minutes ago, Lord Bookworm said:

OK, so I found the relevant quote on the Coppermind. So yeah.

Yes, that's a WoB. I'm just saying there's a more recent one. In any case, regarding the like a drab part of it, I think he's more contrasting the spiritual amount versus emotional state. It is possible though that emotional states are linked to spiritual, but there's nothing, as far as I can recall, that indicates that other than with drabs. 

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OK... I think I got that (notice my obsession with the word 'OK').

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