Twinborn effects? (Spoilers for mistborn era 2)

[Jonathon]

So after reading Alloy of Law I noticed that in the ars arcanum Khriss writes that there is something special about twinborns that she wants to look into more. She said that it's not just that they have two powers but "they have two powers and... an effect"

That spiked my curiosity and I wondered if it would be explained in either of the next two books but they mention nothing of it in the story and the ars arcanum at the end says the same thing. Now at this point we've only met three twinborn, so we don't exactly have much to go on, however I tried deducing specific things that we see exhibited by the twinborn that might not be normal. The problem is it's hard to decipher whether the things I've found are just their personalities or if it could actually be influenced by their nature as a twinborn. 

Wax-- Wax seems to have a primal desire for justice and the law to be upheld. We see this throughout the series but especially when it talks about his time in the terris village and how he tipped off the cops for that one kid, and eventually had to kill him. Not only this but it seems that in the terris village he has a reputation as a person who would report anyone breaking the rules. 

Related to his thirst for justice is his overwhelming sense of duty. He is the kind of person who would always try to do the right thing whether it benefits him or not, as noted with his conversation with harmony. Harmony mentions something about Wax always tying himself to his duty and viewing it as the opposite of freedom whereas it doesn't need to be. 

He seems to be pessimistic in regards to himself. He always notes how he's getting too old and how the technology of the world is going to leave him behind in the dust. He doesn't give himself credit for all the stuff he does, and he often views bad things as his fault because he didn't anticipate it or see it sooner, etc  

 

Wayne-- First off for Wayne is probably the most obvious, his skills at impersonation and accents. In most situations he can blend in with any crowd, heck, he could probably convince someone that he's the lord ruler (if he has the right hat). It just seems to come instinctually to him the ability to be other people and act like them. Now this could also be because he hates being who he really is -- a coward who killed a girl's father and regrets it. But that's too depressing so for the sake of argument I'm including it in the list.

Something else I noticed with Wayne is that he seems to place a lot of emphasis and importance on physical objects such as his hats/costumes. He believes that with a person's hat he can essentially 'become' them when he needs to. Could this have something to do with the items' connection to their former owner in the spiritual realm? Or is it simply that they help him feel more in character... Maybe it's both and he just doesn't realize the former is happening. 

Wayne also seems to have an... interesting sense of morales and responsibility. What I mean is when he takes one item and replaces it with another he doesn't regard it as stealing, only as a trade that he views as fair regardless of the objects economic worth.  Furthermore, when he does something wrong or gets in trouble he thinks stuff like "Oh no I wonder how much they're gonna fine wax for that" instead of him thinking about the consequences to himself. 

 

Miles-- Out of the three, we know the least about Mikes but we do have a small amount of information to draw from. For instance it is mentioned that miles basically doesn't feel pain anymore and we don't know if that could be part of the "effect" of being a twinborn or just because his compounded healing abilities made him so used to not ever being actually hurt that he doesn't notice pain anymore.

We also saw at the end of AoL that Miles seems to not believe he's actually going to die, and faces down the bullets with a sort of grim determination and dedication. Could this be from his devotion to the set? Or is something else going on here...

 

Well this is the information I've gathered so far, and if you have anything I missed feel free to add and I would love to here everybody's theories on what this extra "effect" could be.

 

[+Extesian]

I like your analysis, but we're confident what it's referring to is what is called resonance, where two magical powers essentially interact to form a new unique one (to explain it at its simplest).

(Storm light Archive spoiler below)

Spoiler

The same thing happens on Roshar with Knight Radiant having two powers that interact to give a third unique one. 

Here's a decent explanation, if you search on theoryland.com you'll see more (though not much) and you can search this site for the word. (Stormlight spoiler for the first one)

Spoiler

ARGENT

So, the Edgedancer’s Resonance, the Perk? You’ve called it Resonance at some point, is that still accurate?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yeah, that totally works. The powers affect each other in interesting ways.

ARGENT

Right.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Um, so the thing about it is, calling it a Perk, that like saying--

ARGENT

It’s a side effect right?

BRANDON SANDERSON

It’s...yes a “side effect”, it’s like, when the powers merge, they are always slightly different. For instance, Lightweaving from a Truthwatcher is different slightly--there will be things. So, you’re gave access to the Surges, but in combinations, they act a little differently from one another.

ARGENT

So is the Edgedancer’s Resonance something to do with communication? Because we see Lift…

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yeah, yeah we’ll RAFO that.

Quote

ARGENT

Staying on Scadrial, have we seen the Resonances of either Wax or Wayne?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, well, Wax is really good a sculpting bullets and things away from him.

ARGENT

The bubble.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yeah and things like this. This is playing with the fact that he is-- let’s just say that the abilities make this happen, and I’ll let you theorize on why, but it’s just an enhancement to what he can do.

ARGENT

I might be wrong, but I thought you said it was because he was becoming a Steel Savant.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yeah, definitely, but this is what that’s coming from.

ARGENT

But being a Savant has to do with being really good with one power, and Resonance--

BRANDON SANDERSON

Being a savant has to do with using Investiture a lot, and it’s starting to permeate your soul.

ARGENT

So he’s more of a Savant with both of--

BRANDON SANDERSON

He’s used them a lot, and they are changing his soul, and so the powers are morphing and changing, just in slight, little ways, you’re not gonna see a whole bunch. Well, you can imagine these powers are sort of becoming one to him.

ARGENT

Yeah, I can see that. And Wayne?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Wayne’s is not as obvious, I’ll go ahead and RAFO that right now.

Source

Edit - I just remembered debate over whether Wax is a savant or his bubble us resonance.  See below the end of a conversation between @Argent and Brandon, that clarifies the meaning of resonance but leaves open whether that's what Wax's bubble is. And I'm sure Argent and others will correct me if I've made any mistakes here. But the long and short of it is that's probably what Khriss was referring to in Ars Arcanum.

Quote

u/mistborn: I haven't decided on anything yet. It's mostly consequences for the future--just a kind of, "be aware I'm not 100% pleased with how Wax turned out, re: savanthood and allomantic resonance."
The idea of resonance is that two powers, combined, meld kind of into one single power. This is a manifestation of the way shards combine. Wax was intended as a savant of the two melded powers. But without consequences in his plot, I'm not confident that I'll continue in the same vein for future books

 

Edited May 8, 2017 by Extesian
Remembered a thing

[Jonathon]

Once again, thanks for the information. It seems like there are a lot of theories and such that I've missed out on, being a fairly new reader of Brandon's work. (Although since February I have read all of his cosmere works barring warbreaker along with the Rithmatist, the five Alcatraz books that are out right now, and the reckoners series)

Anyway, thanks for the info, and I'll try to be more careful next time I post something so that it might actually be something that hasn't already been discussed  

[Lord Bookwyrm]

Thing is, the way two powers can combine to form a greater one is also explored in Reckoners. For example, Faultline's abilities are to turn stuff into (something), and she can do (something) to the earth around her. These two combine to form the power she is most well known for, he ability to cause earthquakes.

[Calderis]

3 minutes ago, Lord Bookworm said:

Thing is, the way two powers can combine to form a greater one is also explored in Reckoners. For example, Faultline's abilities are to turn stuff into (something), and she can do (something) to the earth around her. These two combine to form the power she is most well known for, he ability to cause earthquakes.

Resonance doesn't seem to work that way typically. Faultline actively used her powers in tandem to create an effect greater than either individually. Resonances work where there is a... Spiritual reaction that creates an effect independant of the two powers in question.

Stormlight Archive spoilers:

Spoiler

All Knights Radiant have access to two surges, so all gain a resonance. We know two of them and they have nothing to do with their powers directly. 

Windrunners get more squires/stronger squires than other orders, and Lightweaver get a mnemonic device Ala Shallan's ability to take a memory. 

Wax uses his ability to increase his weight and push in tandem for some amazing feats that is similar to what you are talking about, but that is not his resonance. 

[Lord Bookwyrm]

Ok thanks, I think...

[+Extesian]

2 hours ago, Jonathon said:

Once again, thanks for the information. It seems like there are a lot of theories and such that I've missed out on, being a fairly new reader of Brandon's work. (Although since February I have read all of his cosmere works barring warbreaker along with the Rithmatist, the five Alcatraz books that are out right now, and the reckoners series)

Anyway, thanks for the info, and I'll try to be more careful next time I post something so that it might actually be something that hasn't already been discussed  

Nah man you never need to feel bad for asking questions or coming up with new theories/analysis here, it's how we all learn! And Resonance is a topic you would never realize exists, especially that particular word for it, if you're not active on the fan sites as I don't believe it's ever mentioned in the books (other than the reference you had in your OP.

And may i strongly recommend you read Warbeaker as soon as possible? There are so many spoilers on here it's very hard to be active on this site if there are any Cosmere books you haven't read, and more than that Warbreaker is my favorite of his shorter stories and one of the most Cosmere-significant. Oh, and it's free

[Jonathon]

If I had a nickel for every upvote I've given you, well I'd have three nickels, but if I had a nickel for every upvote you deserved, then I would go buy a house

Thanks for the advice by the way, and I'll try to read warbreaker as soon as possible!

[ErikModi]

I think it has more to do with the way the two powers interact uniquely.

Wax can Push on things with his Steel, and his Iron Feruchemy lets him manipulate his weight.  As a result, he can Push himself off objects a normal Coinshot couldn't be decreasing his weight. . . and Push away objects a normal Coinshot couldn't by increasing his weight.  Then there's his little "conservation of momentum" conversation in Bands of Mourning.  Wax can essentially manipulate his speed while "Coinflying" by manipulating his weight. . . decrease it he speeds up, increase it he slows down.

Wayne's powers don't interact as obviously, but he can tap Gold to heal himself quickly, and burn Bendalloy to create a bubble of sped-up time around himself.  So he can literally heal wounds in the blink of an eye by combining both abilities.  Subjectively for him, he has to tap the same amount of health over the same amount of time to heal a wound, but subjectively from someone outside his bubble, Wayne can make gunshots simply vanish.

The combo that fascinates me is Pewter Misting/Gold Ferring.  In the RPG (not exactly canon, I know) Pewter's ability to make a person more resilient to damage is represented by increasing their Health trait. . . and this increased health from burning Pewter can be stored with Gold Feruchemy.  So a Bloodbrute Twinborn could store more health more quickly than a regular Bloodmaker, or store health without getting as weak and sickly as a regular Bloodmaker, and doesn't need to tap health as often, because they're harder to hurt while burning Pewter.

In short, while it's tempting to look at Twinborn as having two separate powers which may or may not synergize well, in reality each combination is its own unique power with two distinct aspects, a whole greater than the sum of its parts.

[The One Who Connects]

@ErikModi The problem with that is that Brandon has described Resonance as "things that do not add up from simple the "you get this power plus this power"."

What you are mentioning is something that I would describe as "this power plus this power." That said, the synergies of the various Twinborn combinations would be a fantastic discussion thread of its own... so much potential

As a side-note: we know that you could store the strength granted by A-Pewter in a Metalmind, so it stands to reason that you could probably use pewter to help keep your body strong while storing health.

[Calderis]

51 minutes ago, ErikModi said:

In short, while it's tempting to look at Twinborn as having two separate powers which may or may not synergize well, in reality each combination is its own unique power with two distinct aspects, a whole greater than the sum of its parts.

You're not wrong about the way Twinborn can use their powers, but the snippet in the Ars Arcanum is specifically referring to an extra effect. It's been described as an extra perk. We know it's not simply the interplay of the powers specifically because once you have too many abilities you no longer get the extra perks.

I'm horrible at locating WoBs so I'm sorry I can't find the quotes but Brandon has said for instance that TLR wouldn't have any of the extra perks because he has too many powers, but we know he wasn't barred from compounding, so that the direct use of the powers effecting each other can't be what this is in reference too. 

It's been dubbed resonance here, and I think it's fitting. I've previously described it as similar to musical notes and chords. If you play two notes simultaneously you can here the resonance between them, three four, or even five notes and you can create a chord that has all of the individual notes, but there's a sound in the resonating notes that is more than the sum of the individual notes. You go beyond 5 notes, and other than some odd outliers, all the notes are audible, but the resonance ceases and you just get noise.

The resonances seem to have no bearing on the powers themselves. They're random enough that Wayne's crazy affinity for language could be his resonance (I don't think it is, just throwing the random nature of them out there). This is far more apparent in Stormlight at the moment, but with Twinborn, we're bound to see more of them.

There's so much discussion about this surrounding Wax, because he does so much with his powers and, there's no obvious thing he does that doesn't meld into his powers somehow, that it's storming hard to pinpoint. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Calderis

[+Extesian]

For reference here's the WoB about too many powers preventing resonances

Quote

mistborn Shardbearer • 215d

I've worked under the premise that if you hold too many of the powers, like a Mistborn, the result is a loss of these little quirks. The mechanics of it are interesting, but I'll leave you to theorize on that sort of thing

Source

So others are right, a resonance us effectively a magical interaction giving rise to a new, specific power, rather than just using multiple powers simultaneously to have cool effects. 

The debate about Wax seems to be that his steel bubble (to my mind) is more about him being a savant (or probably something short of that) in what you can do with two powers simultaneously rather than it being an actual resonance. But we really don't know, or seems brandon hasnt even decided. 

[ErikModi]

Well, Wax's "steel bubble" seems to be something anyone can learn (the Coinshot bandit he fights in Bands seems to use the same, or very similar, power), and it's a Stunt any Coinshot can take in the RPG (again, I know, not 100% canon).

I'd be hesitant to write off any character's innate talents and skills as the result of magical combination powers.  Once could just as easily argue that Marasi's grasp of statistics is because she's got magical power in that event (even though she isn't Twinborn).  Steris' almost-prescient levels of Crazy Preparedness would be the equal of Wayne's affinity for accents and Wax's sense of justice, and she isn't even Metalborn (I know there's speculation that she's some kind of Metalborn and keeping it very hidden, but I doubt for two reasons:  1) Was pegged Marasi as an Allomancer after knowing her for about five minutes, I find it hard to believe he'd miss his wife being Metalborn 2) Steris is SO much cooler as just a Badass Normal.)

Given how scientific the Metallic Arts are, I'd find it really bizarre if the "extra effect" was something completely out of left field, instead of something that naturally followed from the combination of the two powers.  Even if it isn't an obvious A+B at first blush, I think it would make sense as a logical extension of how these two particular powers interact.  Wax being able to decide exactly how much weight to throw behind his Steelpushes is obvious, him benefiting from Conservation of Momentum isn't (except for those readers who really know Newtonian physics inside and out).  In other words, I'd imagine it's less A+B=D, and more A+B+Physics=D.

Hmm.  Makes me wonder if that comment about speed bubbles and redshift is more than just acknowledging a potential violation of the Laws of Physics, and more a very subtle hint about speed bubbles themselves and how they might interact with Wayne's gold. . . 

[Calderis]

@ErikModi

Again I don't disagree with what you're saying. I only brought up Wayne to demonstrate the seemingly random nature of rosonances without using spoilers for Stormlight Archive. 

The only two we have confirmed that I know of are both from that, and they are literally minor, and unconnected to the powers that caused them. 

One is a cool mental trick, and the other doesn't even directly effect the person who has it. Let alone their abilities. 

[ErikModi]

Ah, I misread.  Apologies.

[The One Who Connects]

2 hours ago, ErikModi said:

Given how scientific the Metallic Arts are, I'd find it really bizarre if the "extra effect" was something completely out of left field, instead of something that naturally followed from the combination of the two powers.  Even if it isn't an obvious A+B at first blush, I think it would make sense as a logical extension of how these two particular powers interact.

I would absolutely agree if we were only dealing with the Metallic Arts, but as it stands, Resonance is a Cosmere wide-thing and plays by its own rules.

You are almost definitely right that it's still A+B+Physics=D, but we don't know what the "Physics" Variable is. (And it's infuriating )

edit: oh and Calderis already responded.. page updates are wonderful...

Edited May 9, 2017 by The One Who Connects