Bleeders Special Spike [Shadows of Self]

[TheBlueShifting Oldblood]

I think I have figured something out, although this is in no way confirmed.

I was re-reading HoA and I was pondering hemalurgic spikes in Kandra. Now we know that Kandra Blessings are two spikes which together grant sentience and a power of some kind. In SoS Bleeder uses unknown methods to not only grant herself Feruchemy speed while only using one spike. However, I always thought it was odd that she also manifested a power we have only seen Ruin and Harmony use up to this point. She takes moments to speak to Wax in his mind. At the time I just kinda went with it, it was an exciting time in the story. However, I realized that this should have sent up several red flags. I mean, not only does she use the metallic arts which we thought was impossible, but then she invades Wax's mind like that. That's not even a power we have observed a mortal being using before!

Here is where I will delve into the interviews with Brandon.

There was a question about ReLuur, and if one of his spikes is Atium. TLDR: RAFO

 http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt='reluur'

Now, this is obviously about a different Kandra but we know they know more than they are telling Wax and Wayne at the moment. It seems likely that Atium in some form is still accessible to some Kandra. This is what really holds my theory out.

You see, I was contemplating the fact that Brandon has written sayuing that you could make alloys with both Larasium and Atium and produce 16 alloys. We know that the Laraseium alloys make Mistings, and it's been hinted that Atium alloys would have various temporal effects. So here is the long and short of it all:

Bleeder's single spike might steal the possible abilites of the Atium-Brass Alloy

Now the spike itself might not actually be made of that material since it's hemaleric in nature. But I believe it steals the powers of burning Atium-Zinc or Atium-Brass allomancers. This is a stretch but let me walk you through what we know:

1. Bleeder can somehow talk in the minds of thoses spiked with Hemalergy.

2. Bleeder cannot be using more than one spike while she does this.

3. Bleeder has knowledge of Hemalergy that is far beyond the current understanding of Harmony's people (as far as we know).

4. Bleeder's spike was made of an unknown metallic alloy. 

Now the power of speaking in minds is a bit of a stretch, but it certainly seems like a possibility of a twisted external mental allomantic ability. It also feels more like a pushing rather than a pulling ability. I mean, that is the most realistic explanation for this strange and invasive ability. 

*Edit: Thanks to some awesome readers, I have seen references that clarify that Bleeder's spike is made from a metal that Harmony doesn't know. However, this doesn't change the foundation of the theory. Thanks to those who took the time to source the quotes!*

As my final point of support in this theory, I will need to delve into Secret History here:

Spoiler

In Secret History, Larase casually mentions to Kelsier that the atium alloys of the metals are of Ruin and shouldn't be trusted. This obviously doesn't prove my theory but seem to imply that this is certainly possible.

 

 

So there it is, I have no idea how viable this is, or where exactly the atium came from. It either has reappeared or it was salvaged from an older stash. But I am happy I finally got this out there. It's such a cool concept to think about. I wonder how this could be applied in combat, and if there is a limited range that this communication is restricted to. 

*Edit: Changed my wording for clarification.

Edited May 6, 2017 by TheBlueShifting

[Staphylococcus Idrian Monk]

I'm confused, I thought it was certain her spike was trellium? 

[Yata Mistborn]

The problem is again that Harmony didn't know the Spike's metal and this is really really strange if the Spike was made as part of his own power.

But if we considerate Harmony as a liar (possible but unlikely in this context), it remains the problem of Harmony as unable to detect a Spike fueled by his own power.

[Oversleep Bondsmith]

We have confirmation it's non-Harmony metal:

Quote

Question:
About Paalms spike, is it that one specifically that allowed her to hide from Harmony?
Brandon Sanderson:
It was mostly because she was not using a spike made out of any metal that he knew. She could not have done that with any spike. Taking out one helped a bit, but a non-Harmony spike what youre seeing there is a weird intentional hack of the magic system that I built in.

source

While this WoB:

Quote

Argent

Was Harmony unable to find her because the spike was made of this metal?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. The spike was what prevented him from being able to find her.

Question

It wasn't an ability granted by the spike.

Brandon Sanderson

No.

Question

It was just the material.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

source

suggest that much like atium's additional property in Hemalurgy is "keeping the charge better", that of trellium is "hiding".

Edited May 6, 2017 by Oversleep

[TheBlueShifting Oldblood]

2 hours ago, Oversleep said:

We have confirmation it's non-Harmony metal:

While this WoB:

suggest that much like atium's additional property in Hemalurgy is "keeping the charge better", that of trellium is "hiding".

 

Hmm that is compelling and I was not aware of these quotes, however, it still is a valid argument. I pointed out that the spike didn't need to be made of the Atium-Brass alloy, but that the spike was stealing the ability of a Misting/Mistborn who could burn this alloy. I agree that the spike is a different metal completely, but that the ability holds the power of this Atium Alloy. 

[TheBlueShifting Oldblood]

4 hours ago, Staphylococcus said:

I'm confused, I thought it was certain her spike was trellium? 

@Staphylococcus Yes you are right, I was not aware that it had been confirmed. I have edited my post for clarification. 

[snote Prelan]

@TheBlueShifting

Sorry, this is off topic, but have you ever considered making straight up theorycraft videos for the cosmere? While I do like your "Letters from the Cosmere" series, I think myself, and others, might be more on board, with your videos, if it wasn't made in the format it's in. I don't want to imply you do a bad job or that there is anything wrong with what you're doing already. I just feel like the way they are put together is a barrier to having a larger viewership. People like me who prefer just informative and interesting research presented as such, might be more likely to like/sub/comment. 

I don't know of any big YouTubers doing Cosmere theories at the moment. There is a channel called "Bridge 4" whom I tried to talk into making Sanderson-centric videos. He just didn't care to do it. He loves the Cosmere stories, obviously by his name, but didn't want to take away from his other videos, which mainly focus on Game of Thrones and other popular TV shows. As the time and effort to make them, might not be as lucrative as making videos in the series he's already created. The difference is that you already focus on Sanderson's works, so it wouldn't be as big a time investment and detraction from your viewership's expectations. You are honestly the go-to channel for the Cosmere at the moment, to me at least. Meaning you have positioned yourself into a wide open market.

Either way, thanks so much for doing what you do. It's really great stuff. You keep doing what you think is best for you. I just wanted to make a suggestion that hopefully you'll consider.

[TheBlueShifting Oldblood]

@snote I am grateful that for your insights on this issue and trust me, I have considered it several times.

To be honest with you though, I doubt I would be adding much to the deep theories of the Cosmere. I mean this post is a perfect example. I worked on this idea for a little over a week doing research and trying to make sure my reasoning was sound. I was proud of this and excited to hear what people thought. And yet the first two posts showed me a glaring mistake in my reasoning and critical references that I had missed. I am far from the level of Cosmere Theorist that others like @Argent are at. Perhaps I will get there, I know I am a lot better than I was a year ago. But I feel that most my theories would be torn down immediately. The other option would be to make videos about the theories published by others, which actually could work... but I would need to work closely with them in order to do so.

I will give this some thought, but as it stands I couldn't do something like this on my own. 

LftC is something that I wanted to make because when I first discovered the Cosmere, I was wishing there was a way for me to learn about the Cosmere without having a ton of things spoiled. It wasn't intended to be something that dived too deep into the topics. 

You do highlight a potential need for lore theories and I will seriously consider your thoughts. TLDR; I would love to make a deep lore series, but doubt I am well versed enough to do so properly. Perhaps I could with the help of others. 

[Staphylococcus Idrian Monk]

That's okay, I wasn't sure it has been confirmed either. That's why I asked

I read so much Cosmere stuff over the past few months I don't know what's just speculations and what has been confirmed anymore!

I'm sorry I ruined your theory

[TheBlueShifting Oldblood]

8 hours ago, Staphylococcus said:

That's okay, I wasn't sure it has been confirmed either. That's why I asked

I read so much Cosmere stuff over the past few months I don't know what's just speculations and what has been confirmed anymore!

I'm sorry I ruined your theory

 

Hahaha it's not ruined, just needed to be touched up. Besides, the main point is still valid, I bet that the Atium-Brass alloy does allow allomancers to communicate through hemalergic spikes. I don't know how but Bleeders Spike gave her that ability so it's something to think about. 

[Yata Mistborn]

4 hours ago, TheBlueShifting said:

Hahaha it's not ruined, just needed to be touched up. Besides, the main point is still valid, I bet that the Atium-Brass alloy does allow allomancers to communicate through hemalergic spikes. I don't know how but Bleeders Spike gave her that ability so it's something to think about. 

I don't think your idea is really valid. The "Spike's comunication" (that in the end I think it's more "Comunication with people with an exposed soul") can't be a weird propriety of the Atium-Brass Spike as Bleeded didn't have one. Instead if you are proposing that Allomantic Atium-Brass's power is this "Comunication" tha thing is really really doubtful as Bleeder would need to kill a Mistborn to get this ability (and on another note I think She uses another power in the scene a bit after the comunication)

[TheBlueShifting Oldblood]

16 minutes ago, Yata said:

I don't think your idea is really valid. The "Spike's comunication" (that in the end I think it's more "Comunication with people with an exposed soul") can't be a weird propriety of the Atium-Brass Spike as Bleeded didn't have one. Instead if you are proposing that Allomantic Atium-Brass's power is this "Comunication" tha thing is really really doubtful as Bleeder would need to kill a Mistborn to get this ability (and on another note I think She uses another power in the scene a bit after the comunication)

 

Your right that the spike is not Atium-Brass, besides hemalergy works with spikes of specific metals stealing types of powers (Like how steel steals Allomantic Physical powers) So I am wrong about that. However, Brandon has implied that Atium Mistings can burn all the alloys of Atium. This might possibly be how Demoux has been able to leave Scadrial without using a perpendicularity because many theorize that one of the Atium alloys will allow dimensional hopping. If it is true that Atium Mistings can use all these powers, then you could steal this ability from an Atium Misting, who wouldn't even know they had that ability. 

[Yata Mistborn]

1 minute ago, TheBlueShifting said:

Your right that the spike is not Atium-Brass, besides hemalergy works with spikes of specific metals stealing types of powers (Like how steel steals Allomantic Physical powers) So I am wrong about that. However, Brandon has implied that Atium Mistings can burn all the alloys of Atium. This might possibly be how Demoux has been able to leave Scadrial without using a perpendicularity because many theorize that one of the Atium alloys will allow dimensional hopping. If it is true that Atium Mistings can use all these powers, then you could steal this ability from an Atium Misting, who wouldn't even know they had that ability. 

Also if you have right (and I don't think it's the case as there were Malatium Misting), you can't find someone who doesn't even know to have a power. Neither Ruin could find Durallumin Misting as they never burns (of course) their metal.

Then you have at least other two problems:

- Atium's mistings were possible for Preservation's Manipolation of Allomancy...It's not something that happen naturally, I really doubt Sazed kept this.

- With your idea Bleeder was actually burning and wasting Atium (if she could have some of it) for a thing like that. Quite a no sense

[Lord Bookwyrm Spren]

Reading this chat made me think. So, most people nowadays are calling the metal that Bleeder/Paalm/Lessie used to spike herself 'Trellium'. Now remember in SoS when the Faceless Immortals/kandra tell Wax that Paalm used to serve TLR almost fervently, and did the same for Harmony? I think Trellium is a new god metal, and the Shard is Trell. In HoA, when Sazed is taps all his copperminds and uses the star charts to put Scadrial back into orbit, he mentions Trell, the (something) in the stars. This means Trell exists. If the spike Bleeder used was in fact trellium, then she may have left Harmony for Trell, which explains why she went rogue. Also, Ruin is able to control people with hemalurgic spikes. I thought that, maybe if you use a Shard's god metal as a hemalurgic spike, it can speak to you/control you like Ruin can do if you use hemalurgy. This also explains why she went rogue, and why she didn't return to Harmony.

[Oversleep Bondsmith]

@Lord Bookworm, trellium is a fan name we coined.

The premise is that it's a new Shard's godmetal and since it took on the name of Trell, we decided to call it trellium (because it's easier than "unknown godmetal Bleeder had"). Also, if you compare pre- and post-Catacendre Trell, they are not the same gods. The new one just took on the name, probably.