DiamondMind

Chasmfiends, Voidbringers, and Smoke

11 posts in this topic

Hi everyone! I've been a lurker for quite a long time on these forums and finally decided to contribute to the awesome discussion here. I searched the forums and nobody seemed to have brought this topic up yet.
 
I was re-reading WoK for the release of Words of Radiance and noticed something really interesting. After the hunting party kills the chasmfiend, Dalinar is observing the body and notices some spren rising from its body. I'm going to quote the passage (from chapter 15) because it's so easy to miss:
 

Dalinar looked up at the hulking carcass. Tiny, near-invisible spren were floating out of the beast’s body, vanishing into the air. They looked like the tongues of smoke that might come off a candle after being snuffed. Nobody knew what kind of spren they were; you only saw them around the freshly killed bodies of greatshells. (Emphasis added)

 
So, there are spren that look like smoke that leave the chasmfiend's (or any greatshell's) body after it dies. 
 
Then reading Dalinar vision a few chapters later I come across this:
 

The beasts attacked. Dalinar leapt forward—remaining in motion was the essence of Smokestance—and spun between the creatures, striking to the side with his poker. He hit the one on the left, ripping a gash in its too-smooth skin.
The wound bled smoke.

The skin resisted at first, but then broke, his poker moving through easily after that. A powerful jet of smoke burst out around Dalinar’s hand. He pulled his arm free, and the creature stumbled back, legs growing thinner, body deflating like a leaking wineskin.

 
The "Midnight Essences," which are not Voidbringers but are a harbinger of the coming Desolation, seem to be filled almost entirely by smoke. 
 
A couple more things:

  • Also, a picture that Jasnah found of a Voidbringer looks suspiciously like a chasmfiend, and even though Dalinar dismisses the rendering, I can't believe that's all there is to it.
  • Spoiler from Words of Radiance:

    Elhokar calls the chasmfiend a "god" of the Parshendi and Dalinar thinks that "the Parshendi called these things gods." But we know from Eshonai that there gods haven't returned...yet.

My theory from all of this is that smoke is a sign of Odiom's investiture in Roshar. The chasmfiends greatshells are a leftover from the last Desolation, and there is still a residual amount of Investiture left over that leaves when the chasmfiend greatshell is killed. When the next Desolation comes, Odium or

Odium-spren like the ones in Dalinar's latest vision in WoR

 will take over and control it.
 
I had a whole 'nother tie in with deathspren and red eyes, but this is long enough as it is. What do you guys think?

 

Edit: Changed chasmfiend to greatshell

Edited by DiamondMind
5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like this theory and the reasoning behind It, and I have a few things to add as well, If you have not seen these already...

 

in the prelude Kalak notices that the red, orange, and purple blood mix. We know from chapter 13 that the blood from chasmfiends is purple, so it is not so much of a strectch to say that chasmfiends could have been there.

 

Brandon also said to someone who asked "What are the smoke-y spren that appear around a dead chasmfiend?"

 

"They are in a symbiotic relationship with the chasmfiend, and are part of what allow the creatures to grow to the size they do with an exoskeleton. (Along with a high-oxygen, lower-gravity world.)"

 

The chasmfiend could protect the spren, and in return the spren help it grow larger.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, the chasmfiends to me always smacked more of Cultivation.  But who knows?  There was the listing of blood colors in the Prelude where Kalak mentions red blood (human), orange blood (Parsh presumably), and purple blood.  We know from the hunt that chasmfiends have purple blood.  So it appears that greatshells of some kind participated in the last battle of the last desolation.

 

Edit: Master, you ninja'd me!

Edited by Shardlet
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, the chasmfiends to me always smacked more of Cultivation.  But who knows?  There was the listing of blood colors in the Prelude where Kalak mentions red blood (human), orange blood (Parsh presumably), and purple blood.  We know from the hunt that chasmfiends have purple blood.  So it appears that greatshells of some kind participated in the last battle of the last desolation.

 

Edit: Master, you ninja'd me!

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like this theory and the reasoning behind It, and I have a few things to add as well, If you have not seen these already...

 

in the prelude Kalak notices that the red, orange, and purple blood mix. We know from chapter 13 that the blood from chasmfiends is purple, so it is not so much of a strectch to say that chasmfiends could have been there.

 

Ha, I didn't notice that at all! Thanks for adding it.

 

 

Brandon also said to someone who asked "What are the smoke-y spren that appear around a dead chasmfiend?"

 

"They are in a symbiotic relationship with the chasmfiend, and are part of what allow the creatures to grow to the size they do with an exoskeleton. (Along with a high-oxygen, lower-gravity world.)"

 

The chasmfiend could protect the spren, and in return the spren help it grow larger.

 

 

That's nice to know. I should get into a habit of searching that database. I have a different interpretation of the symbiotic relationship though. Since spren are Cognitive aspects, they would have no need to be protected. They would need some benefit like Syl gets from associating with Kaladin. I have no idea what it could be, but I don't think it's physical.

 

Edit: And thanks for the back up, Shardlet! Your efforts were still appreciated.  :D

Edited by DiamondMind
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, the chasmfiends to me always smacked more of Cultivation. But who knows? There was the listing of blood colors in the Prelude where Kalak mentions red blood (human), orange blood (Parsh presumably), and purple blood. We know from the hunt that chasmfiends have purple blood. So it appears that greatshells of some kind participated in the last battle of the last desolation.

Edit: Master, you ninja'd me!

I'm on my phone so I don't have the exact quote, but I'm fairly certain that the blood in the prelude is violet, not purple. Might be splitting hairs, but knowing BS's attention to detail, this could be significant. I always suspected the violet blood would turn out to be Aimian.

On topic: great theory! +1

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm on my phone so I don't have the exact quote, but I'm fairly certain that the blood in the prelude is violet, not purple. Might be splitting hairs, but knowing BS's attention to detail, this could be significant. I always suspected the violet blood would turn out to be Aimian.

Hmmmmm. this is very true... but I will keep assuming it was from a chasmfiend :lol:

I think that the symbiotic relationship could have somthing to do with the fact that chasmfiends make chrysalises and wait for high storms. Perhaps the chasmfiend is able to obsorb huge amounts of stormlight and then the spren use it for some purpose...

 

I don't know but hey, tell me what you think!

Edited by Master246
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that the symbiotic relationship could have somthing to do with the fact that chasmfiends make chrysalses and wait for high storms. Perhaps the chasmfiend is able to obsorb huge amounts of stormlight and then the spren use it for some purpose...

 

 I like that idea! We never do see what emerges from the chrysalis. Maybe they mutate in some fashion with the spren's help, somewhat like Parshendi?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I like that idea! We never do see what emerges from the chrysalis. Maybe they mutate in some fashion with the spren's help, somewhat like Parshendi?

well, not quite sure if this proves, or disproves it but I found this in a different thread:

 

Q: Have any Chasmfiends managed to mature? Or have they all been caught before they could finish?

Brandon: You've already seen one. The enormous Chasmfiend that Dalinar fought was one that had successfully matured. You haven't seen what they start out as...

 

I'm not quite sure what to make of this quote since "mature" is kind of vague but it is somthing interesting to add....

It would seem that somehow the chasmfiends that make chrysalises are at least physically, different from the Chasmfiend in the hunt from what Brandon said.

 

Edit: I found in the hunt chapter where he says that violet ichor spurted out or something so we do know that chasmfiends really do have violet blood.

Edited by Master246
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So is it possible that chasmfiend a start out as those little winged creatures from the KR orders chart?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm on my phone so I don't have the exact quote, but I'm fairly certain that the blood in the prelude is violet, not purple. Might be splitting hairs, but knowing BS's attention to detail, this could be significant. I always suspected the violet blood would turn out to be Aimian.

On topic: great theory! +1

I think, though, that the blood variation may be due to who's talking. Not everyone is specific with colours, so...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.