Did Someone Say Kill Evil?

Crazy scenarios caused by twin born compounding

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After the introduction of twinborn,  half misting half ferring,  there has been a more known phenomenon called compounding. Compounding, for all effective purposes, grants infinite Feruchemical stores. This causes some crazy stuff, all listed below. Now we just have to hope there are no more Hundredlifes

Iron: Weight. Becoming earth/stadia shattering heavy, sinking to the core, or causing a black hole

Steel: Speed. Flash style infinite mass punch, movement past lightspeed. 

Pewter: Strength. Breaking Scandia by intense strength.  

Tin: Senses. Daredevil style perception. 

Zinc: Mental Speed. Thinking faster than the speed of light

Brass: Warmth. Becoming a star/big bang.

Copper: Memory. Nothing

Bronze: Wakefulness.  Obvious. 

Chromium: Luck. THIS IS A PROBLEM. Having infinite luck is akin to having reality manipulation powers. You can dues ex machina out of everything. 

Nicrosil: Investiture. Imagine using normal allomancy times by an infinite amount, hm hope you aren't spiked and have pewter or Steel or anything. You know how a delurumin push works, imagine that but times infinite and with low metal consumption.  

Aluminum: Identity. ???

Duralumin: Connection. Everyone will trust you and follow your every command. Imagine infinite charisma

Cadmium: Breath.  Obvious

Bendalloy: Energy.  Obvious

Gold: Health.  Practical Immorality

Electrum: Determination.  Obvious

 

Think on what would happen with infinite of any of these

And tell me in reply

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Compounding doesn't work like you think it does. There are limits to feruchemy, even if it isn't as cut and dry as allomancy. 

For example, take steel. Steel makes you faster, but it doesn't get rid of friction. Meaning without pewter, you would burn yourself up. 

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Steel: Death by friction before reaching that point. 

Brass: Death by overheating before reaching that point. 

Chromium: We don't know how it works so any speculation on how OP it is at high stores is moot. 

Nicrosil: Viable, but note that increasing allomantic strength increases both investiture per volume burned and burn rate. You'd be more on a continuous duralumin burn with metals flashing away in moments all the time. You can flatten cities, but only for a moment before needing to swallow more metals. 

Gold: Infinite regeneration. You'll still die from age and disease. 

Duralumin: We don't have a good grasp on that so see my thoughts on chromium. 

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Iron: You'd die of being crushed before you could sink to the core or create a black hole. The safeguards only protect against so much

Steel: As Patricksinger said, you are limited by friction. Can't ignore drag, and if you somehow go faster, you'll burn up like rockets do on reentry.

Pewter: F-Pewter increases your physical size. It is entirely likely that you are just as limited in how big you can get as Koloss are. The skin literally stretches until it can't take it anymore, and would snap if it kept going. That would likely kill you, pewter or not. 

Tin: Senses store individually, so that'd require a lot of compounding to do. Secondly, Tin-Sight functions more like a binocular zoom than like A-Tin, so have fun with the extreme nausea.

Zinc: Brandon has said that Zinc isn't really bullet time because while your mind is faster, your body is not. If your mind percieves everything quicker, but the rest of your body is at normal speed, then even blinking will appear to take forever, preventing you from seeing things to analyze them for what seems like minutes. The faster your mental speed is, the worse it gets. 

Brass: You're gonna burn up long before you make it to star-levels. Like with Iron, the safeguards can only do so much.

Copper: Brandon has said that you could do "interesting things" with Copper compounding.

Bronze: Never having to sleep has its own disadvantages. Sleep gives your body time to rest and repair itself, helps with your mental state, among other things. Your compounder will not be able to maintain their health without rest days, and might even go paranoid after a while. It's not direct limits, but it's a case of pros vs cons.

Chromium: We still don't know how our "luck stat" works, so it might not be as overpowered as you assume. Interpersonal situations will certainly go your way, but you might not be able to walk through a crossfire unscathed.

Nicrosil: Useless without another ability to fuel. Or unless you're in the Medallion industry. Edit: if you do have another power, see Spool's response.

Aluminum: from the same WoB as Copper, Double Aluminum would do "not much." It's been speculated that it has to do with the effect of A-Aluminum in wiping the reserves.

Duralumin: Trust sure. Following commands... Being very connected with people could make you a pseudo-very close friend, but I don't see it somehow making you in charge. I can see people having less doubts about "ideas" you suggest, but I wouldn't equate connection with charisma just yet.

Cadmium: Tap too much breath and you could either hyper oxygenate your blood(bad for you) or even have your lungs explode like overfilled balloons.

Bendalloy: It's not energy, it's calories/nutrition. Slight difference, but it's enough. If you don't use those calories to do something, you'd likely gain weight just like we do with normal calories. Like hyper-oxygenation, extra high caloric intake is also bad for you. You need a separate Metalmind to store fluids in, and overtapping that could break your bladder. 

Gold: You'd basically be a Reincarnation Epic, able to survive any wound, but old age will still be the end. (Miles still got older, yes?)

Electrum: I really don't know, but normal electrum has been described as entering a manic state(might've been from the MAG) and I feel like an even more manic state could lead to all manner of mental health issues and paranoia.

Edit v2: Thank you for reminding me about my notepad note from last year titled: "The Limits of Compounding" It helped me clean my response up quite well.

Edited by The One Who Connects
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1 hour ago, The One Who Connects said:

Tin: Senses store individually, so that'd require a lot of compounding to do. Secondly, Tin-Sight functions more like a binocular zoom than like A-Tin, so have fun with the extreme nausea.

Actually, on this one, storing senses individually would be a help.  Daredevil's specialty is primarily his enhanced hearing, not sight (obviously).  Smell and touch factor in as well, though taste not as much.  So a Tin-Tin Twinborn (heh) would be able to store just hearing, smell, and touch, and then have a virtually unlimited source of those enhanced senses.  With practice, I imagine they could get close to a Daredevil-like sense of the world around them.  If they were blind, it'd probably come even closer since those sense would naturally develop better anyway, and then would be greatly enhanced.  It'd be a lot like Spook, but without some of the downsides he experienced like his sight being far too sensitive.

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@Jondesu Fair Point. I was considering the idea that you could compound some of the less traditional senses to give you a different edge, and that would take a lot more Tin than just Hearing/Smell or something like that.

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1 minute ago, The One Who Connects said:

@Jondesu Fair Point. I was considering the idea that you could compound some of the less traditional senses to give you a different edge, and that would take a lot more Tin than just Hearing/Smell or something like that.

I wonder how much control you really can get?  Could you store just the sense of touch for your feet, or just your fingers, for instance?

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Just now, Jondesu said:

I wonder how much control you really can get?  Could you store just the sense of touch for your feet, or just your fingers, for instance?

I thought there was a WoB about storing/strengthening just one arm via Pewter, but it might've been a RAFO. (It also might've been about A-Pewter now that I think about it)

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2 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

Gold: You'd basically be a Reincarnation Epic, able to survive any wound, but old age will still be the end. (Miles still got older, yes?)

Yeah, Miles admits that he's 'practically immortal' but notes that he still needs sleep and he still ages. Realmatically speaking, it probably has to do with your Spiritual age still clocking up (you need atium to alter that) so your body 'knows' that it's getting old and eventually you'll die of it, though you'll probably be in excellent health until the point you keel over.

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I can see having a lot of connection being able to make people worship you.... or at least respect you a lot and obey orders fairly consistently, but connection might do other things.... 

 

according to mistborn book 1 , the lord ruler has a perfect memory, which I assume is due to compounding copper.

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On 4/7/2017 at 8:04 AM, Spoolofwhool said:

Steel: Death by friction before reaching that point. 

Brass: Death by overheating before reaching that point. 

Chromium: We don't know how it works so any speculation on how OP it is at high stores is moot. 

Nicrosil: Viable, but note that increasing allomantic strength increases both investiture per volume burned and burn rate. You'd be more on a continuous duralumin burn with metals flashing away in moments all the time. You can flatten cities, but only for a moment before needing to swallow more metals. 

Gold: Infinite regeneration. You'll still die from age and disease. 

Duralumin: We don't have a good grasp on that so see my thoughts on chromium. 

First When using brass if you tapped all of it at once, you would be able to create a brief flash of enormous heat. You would die but the heat would still be released. The duralumin would most likely work but it could backfire... Chromium would be interesting but I assume it has to be possible first. 

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*singsong* there is always a way to get out of the friction issue. If you give a steel compounder a cultivationspren (spoilers? I guess? ) then you get STEELDANCER. Featuring steelpushing, infinite speed (because friction no longer has a hold on him) healing powers, and a shardblade. Still rooting for him being able to take down the lord ruler single handed 

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11 hours ago, The Flash said:

*singsong* there is always a way to get out of the friction issue. If you give a steel compounder a cultivationspren (spoilers? I guess? ) then you get STEELDANCER. Featuring steelpushing, infinite speed (because friction no longer has a hold on him) healing powers, and a shardblade. Still rooting for him being able to take down the lord ruler single handed 

1: this thread was specifically about the Metallic Arts, so bypassing the issue with something else is technically cheating :P

2: Without friction against the ground, you cannot speed up. It's like trying to speed up on something far more slippery than ice.

3: Friction isn't the only thing putting a speed limit on you. Remember how mass works when approaching the speed of light?

4: TLR can still push the metals in your stomach. Have fun trying to get near him, since his double Steel negates yours.

Edited by The One Who Connects
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when i said black hole, star flare etc, I know you'd die

Also i mean *practically* infinite

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from what we've seen of feruchemy, the physical attributes at least are tapped on a contiguous scale: Like weight for wax and strength/weight for Sazed in the Luthadel battle, they are built up gradually not tapped all at once. I think copper and the mental attributes might be more discrete (full instantaneous access possible?) but I would put heat from brass into a slower 'build-up' type of power. That severely limits the maximum effect you can have before dying.

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I asked Brandon about possible issues with compounding mental speed, such as extream hunger. Apparently the hunger is only due to calories burned as regular thought process, not due to speeding of any digestive proccess, so you wouldn't need much food to sustain the compounding. 

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5 hours ago, Darkness said:

from what we've seen of feruchemy, the physical attributes at least are tapped on a contiguous scale: Like weight for wax and strength/weight for Sazed in the Luthadel battle, they are built up gradually not tapped all at once. I think copper and the mental attributes might be more discrete (full instantaneous access possible?) but I would put heat from brass into a slower 'build-up' type of power. That severely limits the maximum effect you can have before dying.

Umm, in alloy of law wax taps all of his masterminds instantaneusly, the filling has lost most because you can only be so weak, or so light before it becomes a hazard. The whole advantage that feruchemy has over allomancy s that you can use all of it at once.

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It's completely possible I'm misremembering on weight... But Sazed's body didn't just 'pop' into hulk-form, it was definitely a build-up. I'd have to reread the relevant book passages to say anything further, and I just don't have the time :(

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On 4/7/2017 at 7:27 AM, Did Someone Say Kill Evil? said:

After the introduction of twinborn,  half misting half ferring,  there has been a more known phenomenon called compounding. Compounding, for all effective purposes, grants infinite Feruchemical stores. This causes some crazy stuff, all listed below. Now we just have to hope there are no more Hundredlifes

Iron: Weight. Becoming earth/stadia shattering heavy, sinking to the core, or causing a black hole

Steel: Speed. Flash style infinite mass punch, movement past lightspeed. 

Pewter: Strength. Breaking Scandia by intense strength.  

Tin: Senses. Daredevil style perception. 

Zinc: Mental Speed. Thinking faster than the speed of light

Brass: Warmth. Becoming a star/big bang.

Copper: Memory. Nothing

Bronze: Wakefulness.  Obvious. 

Chromium: Luck. THIS IS A PROBLEM. Having infinite luck is akin to having reality manipulation powers. You can dues ex machina out of everything. 

Nicrosil: Investiture. Imagine using normal allomancy times by an infinite amount, hm hope you aren't spiked and have pewter or Steel or anything. You know how a delurumin push works, imagine that but times infinite and with low metal consumption.  

Aluminum: Identity. ???

Duralumin: Connection. Everyone will trust you and follow your every command. Imagine infinite charisma

Cadmium: Breath.  Obvious

Bendalloy: Energy.  Obvious

Gold: Health.  Practical Immorality

Electrum: Determination.  Obvious

 

Think on what would happen with infinite of any of these

And tell me in reply

The more you want to tap, the more of the physical metal you have to burn (and I think it scales faster than linearly), so it wouldn't reach super-heavy levels.

That said, that is a good point about Chromium twinborn being extremely powerful.

Nicrosil twinborn really wouldn't be, since the only abilities they can get ridiculous amounts of are nicrobursting (which is probably limited more by the metal stores of the target than the ability of the nicroburster), and investiture feruchemy itself.  Now, combine it with other powers, and you can get something more significant.

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I'd agree with the nicroburating, but if you had someone else compounding while you coumpounded nicrosil... that would be interesting. I wounder if you could give them more power total then they could when they burn it.

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25 minutes ago, Just another guyn said:

I'd agree with the nicrobursting, but if you had someone else compounding while you coumpounded nicrosil... that would be interesting. I wounder if you could give them more power total then they could when they burn it.

Normally I would say no, as you get the same amount of power from the metal when Nicrobursted as you do without it, just faster. So it stands to reason that you should get the same out of your compounded stores, but faster.

And to bring Spool's comment from earlier back to this:

Quote

Nicrosil: Viable, but note that increasing allomantic strength increases both investiture per volume burned and burn rate. You'd be more on a continuous duralumin burn with metals flashing away in moments all the time. You can flatten cities, but only for a moment before needing to swallow more metals. 

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Thanks for the correction there. 

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A few have objected that tapping too much mind (via compounding) would destroy the person, do we really have a good reason to believe this?

Rust, we even see Marasi move so fast she creates vacuum in the space where her hand was. She was not ripped apart.

Unless I'm mistaken, all the evidence points to the body surviving no matter what power is tapped, and this being a feature of feruchemy. Or do we have WoB saying buyer-beware when it comes to compounding?

(first post, be gentle)

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3 hours ago, windrunningmistborn said:

A few have objected that tapping too much mind (via compounding) would destroy the person, do we really have a good reason to believe this?

Rust, we even see Marasi move so fast she creates vacuum in the space where her hand was. She was not ripped apart.

Unless I'm mistaken, all the evidence points to the body surviving no matter what power is tapped, and this being a feature of feruchemy. Or do we have WoB saying buyer-beware when it comes to compounding?

(first post, be gentle)

Yes. I'd have to find it. But there is a WoB specifically about F-speed that says while the powers tend to enhance the body to protect itself, wind resistance would become an issue that would eventually injure and possibly kill. 

The reason this isn't an issue with Marasi and the bands is because she's not using speed alone, so other powers like A-pewter and F-gold are protecting her and repairing any damage as it happens. 

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As Calderis said Feruchemy helps you a bit to sustain Its effects.

In Speed's case, Feruchemy protects you from acceleration alone. So you have still to worry of Wind resistance, friction and probably any kind of impact.

Edited by Yata
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