Did Someone Say Kill Evil?

A little theory on Heleran

70 posts in this topic

6 hours ago, Did Someone Say Kill Evil? said:

Division is what is mentioned when they say "can burn through stone" Dustbringers are proven to be able to burn and Division is the surge of DESTRUCTION

I think that only enhances the point I was going for with that post, but all right, I will correct it.  

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6 hours ago, Did Someone Say Kill Evil? said:

Division is what is mentioned when they say "can burn through stone" Dustbringers are proven to be able to burn and Division is the surge of DESTRUCTION

It's cutting molecular bonds.

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isn't there a better way to inform new members about double posting than downvotes?

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On 24/04/2017 at 6:59 AM, Spoolofwhool said:

It's cutting molecular bonds.

But in the Ars Arcarnum  it says division is the surge of destruction

WoR Ars Arcarnum 

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4 hours ago, Did Someone Say Kill Evil? said:

But in the Ars Arcarnum  it says division is the surge of destruction

WoR Ars Arcarnum 

We have Brandon's own words, which overrule the Ars Arcanum. He felt splitting the atom would be a bit overpowered, so it only goes down to the molecular level.

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16 hours ago, Did Someone Say Kill Evil? said:

But in the Ars Arcarnum  it says division is the surge of destruction

WoR Ars Arcarnum 

It's destruction on the molecular scale, which would still visibly be destruction. It's not the Surge of Annihilation. 

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I find it unlikely that Helaran's blade was an Honorblade, if only because it wouldn't really work as well narratively if the blade that Kaladin originally rejected was an Honorblade.

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3 hours ago, Yitzi2 said:

I find it unlikely that Helaran's blade was an Honorblade, if only because it wouldn't really work as well narratively if the blade that Kaladin originally rejected was an Honorblade.

It makes just as much sense as if it was a shard blade

He didn't like it because of the proverbial blood on it, not because of the screaming

Also to The one who connects, I never said atom splitting, only the vague word destruction

Edited by Did Someone Say Kill Evil?
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I wonder about this, but do like what you have found. However, consider this. The members of the Diagram talk about how Shallan has been trained as a Radiant and they wonder if this training was at Jassnah's hand or that of her brother. This implies that he was bonded to a spren. I think that Helaran isn't actually dead. Maybe he became a Stormwarden and then gave his blade and plate to another agent who was the one Kaladin killed. The man Kal murdered never had his face revealed and it was the blade that was used to identify him. I think Helaran will appear, maybe at the end of Oathbringer.

 

Oh and this would also absolve Kaladin from murdering Shallan's favorite brother which continues to open the possibility of a relationship starting between them. 

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2 hours ago, TheBlueShifting said:

This implies that he was bonded to a spren. I think that Helaran isn't actually dead. Maybe he became a Stormwarden

@TheBlueShifting, did you mean a stormwarden, who is not necessarily bonded to a spren, or stoneward?

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On 5/4/2017 at 3:10 AM, Did Someone Say Kill Evil? said:

Also to The one who connects, I never said atom splitting, only the vague word destruction

I'm aware that you didn't mention it. You were told it was cutting molecular bonds by Spool, and you said "but it says destruction" as if splitting molecular bonds weren't destructive enough, so I mentioned a WoB that dealt with something more destructive.

The questioner asked Brandon about splitting the atom, so he put his foot down and said molecular. I brought up splitting the atom as part of the referenced WoB because it was the question he answered.

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On 4/18/2017 at 3:21 PM, Pagerunner said:

 

My big hangup with this whole situation was, why would Brandon include that Helaran sought out the Skybreakers, if he wound up being part of a different secret society? This explanation answers that concern.

 

Like others had said, maybe he sought the Skybreakers to infiltrate them.  When his spren found out that he betrayed his oaths to the Skybreakers, it broke the spren resulting in the dead shardblade

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On 5/4/2017 at 5:40 AM, john203 said:

@TheBlueShifting, did you mean a stormwarden, who is not necessarily bonded to a spren, or stoneward?

Hahaha I'm sorry @john203 I was thinking SkyBreakers, and apparently just had a mental checkout. The Skybreakers are the only Knights who seem to still be active as an organization. 

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From March 22 2014:

QUESTION

I guess Helaran was not bonded to a spren then?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Why do you say that

QUESTION

I saw that his Blade had a gemstone at the bottom, so that was a clue.

BRANDON SANDERSON

That is a very good clue.

Note that Brandon does not say that it was Herlaran. Also, honor blades do not have these gemstones. 

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On 5/8/2017 at 1:51 PM, geoffw35 said:

From March 22 2014:

QUESTION

I guess Helaran was not bonded to a spren then?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Why do you say that

QUESTION

I saw that his Blade had a gemstone at the bottom, so that was a clue.

BRANDON SANDERSON

That is a very good clue.

Note that Brandon does not say that it was Herlaran. Also, honor blades do not have these gemstones. 

I thought that WoB was talking about when Helaran visited the manor and showed off his Blade to threaten his father. Now I need to look up that scene and see if it had a gem. That would put the debate on if he had a spren to rest completely, since it was the same Blade then as the one Amaram has.

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1 hour ago, Djarskublar said:

I thought that WoB was talking about when Helaran visited the manor and showed off his Blade to threaten his father. Now I need to look up that scene and see if it had a gem. That would put the debate on if he had a spren to rest completely, since it was the same Blade then as the one Amaram has.

I think you may be right about which scene is referenced here. However, he could have bonded with a spren between that time and Kaladin's killing of the shardbearer. 

Edited by geoffw35
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Just now, geoffw35 said:

I think you may be right about which scene is referenced here. However, he could have bonded with a spren between that time and Kaladin's killing. 

Except Shallan recognized the Blade that Amaram had as Helaran's Blade from then. So unless someone else got the Blade from Helaran and then he bonded a spren (which I think is highly unlikely for a few reasons that have mostly been discussed), he had a dead Blade.

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29 minutes ago, Djarskublar said:

Except Shallan recognized the Blade that Amaram had as Helaran's Blade from then. So unless someone else got the Blade from Helaran and then he bonded a spren (which I think is highly unlikely for a few reasons that have mostly been discussed), he had a dead Blade.

And the new Blade's owner needs to be another joung Veden like himself.

Honestly I think there are too many "if" to make this thing works.

Also the fact he never showed up to keep his father in check

Edited by Yata
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7 minutes ago, Djarskublar said:

Except Shallan recognized the Blade that Amaram had as Helaran's Blade from then. So unless someone else got the Blade from Helaran and then he bonded a spren (which I think is highly unlikely for a few reasons that have mostly been discussed), he had a dead Blade.

I mentioned in a post back a bit in this thread that I believed that another was carrying the blade and was killed by Kaladin. I have never thought it was anything other than a dead shardblade which another could certainly carry. There certainly are counter arguments--red hair, his father believes he was killed, etc. So I like the theory (I don't claim it as mine, but I agree it has merit), but it is not the most likely scenario. 

Edited by geoffw35
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As Yata aptly put it, there are too many ifs to make that theory likely. Then again, most theories about Helaran have a lot of ifs. I personally think that my theory that he was hunting the Skybreakers down, probably as a member of the Ghostbloods, has the fewest ifs and explains pretty much everything that is inconsistent in other theories.

Aside from the physical evidence that it was Helaran, there is another reason I don't see mentioned much for why Helaran probably didn't have a spren. Why would he give up the Shardblade, and where did he get it? I personally don't think it is terribly likely that actual Skybreakers would be willing to associate with people in their organization with dead Blades. I doubt the Skybreaker order keeps around any dead Blades unless they hold on to them just to keep them out of circulation. For those reasons, I think it its unlikely that he got the Blade from the Skybreakers, and I don't see him getting one from another source if he was trying to join them. Then, once you have the Blade, it should be harder to bond a spren, so I don't think he could have become a Skybreaker while he owned the Blade.

Giving up Blades is an extremely rare event, usually only to pass one on to your heir. What Dalinar did was an extreme exception. I don't see Helaran giving up concrete power and influence from having a Blade for a mere chance at getting mystical powers that would grant him only a little more political influence (at the time). He is too sensible, and game theory would tell me to keep the Blade.

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