A little theory on Heleran

[Did Someone Say Kill Evil? Noble-Blooded]

I have one theory that I am mildly proud of about SA

My theory is that Heleran was a surge binder before he got killed by Kaladin. In the part of WoR which the king of Kharbranth narrated, when Taravangian is talking about how 'Jasnah's ward' learnt to surge bind he remarked that either Jasnah or her brother (Heleran) must have taught her. Secondly when Shallan was confronted by Mraize of the ghostbloods  he states 'why was your brother so interested in the Skybreakers' 

My conclusion is that Heleran was a Surgebinder of spren or honor blade.  If Heleran had a nahel bond then he likely a) was a sky breaker (quote) or b broke his nahel bond before death. I say this because in Edgedancer wyndle say that if lift dies he would be traumatizing  and wouldn't get over it for months, this means th at when a surgebinder dies their spren doesn't.

My other thought is that he had an honor blade, likely truth watcher, elsecaller, light weaver or skybreaker.  If this is the case then amaram has a honor blade, scary thought.

 

Edited April 7, 2017 by Did Someone Say Kill Evil?

[Spoolofwhool Stone Shaman]

It's unlikely that he was a surgebinding in my opinion as that means either he was nahel bonded to a spren while at the same time still holding onto a dead spren blade, or as you say, he had an Honorblade. 

Holding onto a dead sprenblade is possible, but it means that he would've been forced to listen to screaming when he held it during the entire fight. Additionally, I can see it offending his live spren, so he would've been counselled against having it, like the Stormfather did for Dalinar. 

For it to being an Honorblade is far less likely,  to impossible. First of all, I can't remember, but if Kaladin had heard screaming from touching it, that would rule it out entirely. Secondly, our count of Honorblades appears to be complete. Seven or eight by the Shin, one by the man called Taln, one by Szeth, and one, if the Shin hold seven, by Nale. Unless there's an eleventh Honorblade, it should be impossible that another is floating around. 

[Did Someone Say Kill Evil? Noble-Blooded]

Talns isn't an honourblade, Dalinar heard screaming from it. And on using a dead spren offending the new one, I meant that he killed his spren and that is his shardblade.

Also Shin have 7 (unless stolen), nale's might not be a honor blade and Kaladin has one.

That is min of 1 comfirmed

Edited April 7, 2017 by Did Someone Say Kill Evil?

[Overlord Jebus Svrakiss]

1 minute ago, Did Someone Say Kill Evil? said:

Talns isn't an honourblade, Dalinar heard screaming from it. And on using a dead spren offending the new one, I meant that he killed his spren.

Also Shin have 7 (unless stolen), nale might not be a honor blade and Kaladin has one.

That is min of 1 comfirme

Reread the descriptions of the Blades. Talns blade got switched out before it reached Dalinar. We don't know who has Taln's Honorblade.

[Darkness Ascendant Steel Inquisitor]

1 hour ago, Did Someone Say Kill Evil? said:

navel bond then he likely a) was a sky breaker (quote) or b broke his name bond before death

I'm now imagining a spren and a person bonded by an umbilical cord XD

Na, hell no.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Darkness Ascendant
Nahel no? no-one? Tough crowd

[Did Someone Say Kill Evil? Noble-Blooded]

2 minutes ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

I'm now imagining a spren and a person bonded by an umbilical cord XD

Na, hell no.

It's the auto correct

[Darkness Ascendant Steel Inquisitor]

Just now, Did Someone Say Kill Evil? said:

It's the auto correct

I know  I'm going to make a comic on it if you don't mind now.

[Did Someone Say Kill Evil? Noble-Blooded]

1 minute ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

I know  I'm going to make a comic on it if you don't mind now.

That's fine

[The One Who Connects Dawnsinger]

Regarding Honorblades:

The Shin have 7. (Per Szeth when Mr. T makes up the story that Kaladin has one, he says "one of the other seven?")

They had 8, one of which was given to Szeth, and is currently in Kaladin's possession unless something changes Oathbringer.

Per WoB, Nalan does have his Honorblade. There's an asterisk that'll come up with that in Oathbringer, but Brandon has said that Nalan is the one who took his Blade back from the Shin.

Taln has had his Honorblade during his 4,500 year tenure, which appears to have ended after the Everstorm. (6 years after Helaran's death)

Thus he cannot have an Honorblade.

[Spoolofwhool Stone Shaman]

1 hour ago, Did Someone Say Kill Evil? said:

Talns isn't an honourblade, Dalinar heard screaming from it. And on using a dead spren offending the new one, I meant that he killed his spren and that is his shardblade.

So you're saying he was surgebinder at some point, then at some other point before he engaged Amaram's army, before he even threatened his father years ago (blade wasn't glowing then), he sundered his oath and killed his spren? The timing feels very off in that regard. 

15 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

Ignore this. 

Edited April 7, 2017 by Spoolofwhool

[Darkness Ascendant Steel Inquisitor]

So when I heard Navel Bonds. Of course I instantly thought of Gemini from Bindings of Isaac... @Did Someone Say Kill Evil?

Edited April 7, 2017 by Darkness Ascendant

[AeonaRin Cobalt Guard]

Also, if he was w surgebinder, killing Amaram would me MUCH easier using surges. But he did not. And he was wearing a dead shardplate which a surgebinder wouldn't probably do. 

He might have been looking for Skybreakers. All in all he was a member of some secret society that, probably like the others we know of, was concerned with Radiants. 

[Darkness Ascendant Steel Inquisitor]

2 hours ago, strumienpola said:

Also, if he was w surgebinder, killing Amaram would me MUCH easier using surges. But he did not. And he was wearing a dead shardplate which a surgebinder wouldn't probably do. 

Not all surges are useful in battle. And I think your thinking of Windrunners in particular. Renarin is fine in Shardplate for example. 

 

[AeonaRin Cobalt Guard]

4 hours ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

Not all surges are useful in battle. 

Yes, but Skybreaker skills are. 

4 hours ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

And I think your thinking of Windrunners in particular. Renarin is fine in Shardplate for example. 

 

My thinking of Windrunners what?  

I didn't say surgebinders can't use shardplate. I'm saying someone with ability to use surges (in combat, yes) would not choose to wear a shardplate that blocks their abilities. Most probably. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by strumienpola

[Darkness Ascendant Steel Inquisitor]

1 hour ago, strumienpola said:

My thinking of Windrunners what?  

I didn't say surgebinders can't use shardplate. I'm saying someone with ability to use surges (in combat, yes) would not choose to wear a shardplate that blocks their abilities. Most probably. 

Ah, that was a wrong assumption on my part heh. Nvm nvm

[Did Someone Say Kill Evil? Noble-Blooded]

It's just a theory I will feel smug about if true

Though Honor Blade amaram would be a bit challenging to kill

[Yata Mistborn]

5 hours ago, Did Someone Say Kill Evil? said:

It's just a theory I will feel smug about if true

Though Honor Blade amaram would be a bit challenging to kill

Not too much, in a challenge Honorblade's user Vs KR. The second Will probably win with the same experience.

The reason for Szeth's manace was the years of practice He had with his Power.

Anyway I really doubt Amaram's Shardblade is an Honorblade....To be honest It's quite impossible for the evidences we have

[Landis963 Dakhor Monk]

On 4/7/2017 at 10:51 PM, Darkness Ascendant said:

Not all surges are useful in battle. 

Adhesion sticks enemies to floors.  

Gravitation allows one to fly.

Division cuts things BLOWS THINGS UP at range.

Abrasion makes you impossible to hold. 

Progression heals allies, or allows you to change the battlefield to your liking.

Illumination can project decoys, or cause the opponent to misstep.  

Transformation can one-shot opponents. 

Transportation is basically teleportation. 

Cohesion allows one to tear things apart with your bare hands.  

Tension turns all your opponents' weapons into pool noodles.  

All those sound pretty useful in battle.  

Edited April 23, 2017 by Landis963
Because that's more accurate.

[Toaster Retribution Prime]

Even if Helaran didnt have a nahel bond or a navel bond (both unlikely), or a honorblade (impossible) it is still interesting that he was considered to be able to teach Shallan about Surgebinding.

I am also very interested in the Skybreakers. Edgedancer spoiler:

Spoiler

Nale had at least two followers who can use Surgebinding. Did those have bonds or not? And if they had bonds, how did Nale find them?

So Helaran is kind of mysterious. Mraize apparently did some digging. I am interested in his findings.

[Yata Mistborn]

7 hours ago, Chull #445 said:

Even if Helaran didnt have a nahel bond or a navel bond (both unlikely), or a honorblade (impossible) it is still interesting that he was considered to be able to teach Shallan about Surgebinding.

I am also very interested in the Skybreakers. Edgedancer spoiler:

  Reveal hidden contents

Nale had at least two followers who can use Surgebinding. Did those have bonds or not? And if they had bonds, how did Nale find them?

 

He searched the Skybreaker. Maybe if he becomed One of them (really unlikely) or Simply know some of them...He could be a good broker of Information about the Surgebinder. Or introduce Shallan to the right people.

[Toaster Retribution Prime]

4 hours ago, Yata said:

He searched the Skybreaker. Maybe if he becomed One of them (really unlikely) or Simply know some of them...He could be a good broker of Information about the Surgebinder. Or introduce Shallan to the right people.

My point is basically to ask: can Nale make people into Surgebinders. Considering what is in Edgedancer, and that Helaran knew of Surgebinding, while also seeking out the Skybreakers. Because if Nale had a way to grant Skybreaker surges to people, that could explain why Helaran was thought to be capable of learning Shallan surges.

I find this quite unlikely myself, but do have similar stuff in Mistborn, so... yeah.

[Yata Mistborn]

17 minutes ago, Chull #445 said:

My point is basically to ask: can Nale make people into Surgebinders. Considering what is in Edgedancer, and that Helaran knew of Surgebinding, while also seeking out the Skybreakers. Because if Nale had a way to grant Skybreaker surges to people, that could explain why Helaran was thought to be capable of learning Shallan surges.

I find this quite unlikely myself, but do have similar stuff in Mistborn, so... yeah.

Nale for sure knows the right Skybreaker's values. So he could manage to teach them to compatibile people. We could say that with him as guide/mentor someone has an improved chance to become and to grow as Skybreaker (he could teach to other orders too I assume, at least as source of Information).

But to gave or not the power itself is Spren's choice.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Yata

[Steeldancer Bondsmith]

On 4/8/2017 at 3:54 PM, Landis963 said:

Adhesion sticks enemies to floors.  

Gravitation allows one to fly.

Division cuts things at range.

Abrasion makes you impossible to hold. 

Progression heals allies, or allows you to change the battlefield to your liking.

Illumination can project decoys, or cause the opponent to misstep.  

Transformation can one-shot opponents. 

Transportation is basically teleportation. 

Cohesion allows one to tear things apart with your bare hands.  

Tension turns all your opponents' weapons into pool noodles.  

All those sound pretty useful in battle.  

I just had an image of the alethi armies whacking each other with pool noodles oh that would be fantastic LOL. also the asterisk is probably that the honorblades are not quite as powerful as they used to be. I got that particular WoB, they used to have that direct connection to Honor. Any way what about the theory that it wasn't Helaran who was killed

[Toaster Retribution Prime]

9 hours ago, Yata said:

Nale for sure knows the right Skybreaker's values. So he could manage to teach them to compatibile people. We could say that with him as guide/mentor someone has an improved chance to become and to grow as Skybreaker (he could teach to other orders too I assume, at least as source of Information).

But to gave or not the power itself is Spren's choice.

I find it interesting that so many Skybreakerspren has chosen to return to the humans, while the other spren are doing things more slowly. But it might be because of Nale, as you say.

[Farnsworth Spinner]

Are you so sure that Helarian can absolutely not ge a radiant? He seems like he embodies some radiant values, no?