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New (possible) allomantic/feruchemical/hemalurgic metals?


Lord Bookwyrm

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So we have the base 16 allomantic (a) metals that are also used in feruchemy and hemalurgy (f and h). Following this, if any more a metals are found, then they will be used in f and h too. However, this can be reversed. If a=f=h, then if more h or f metals are found, they will be used in a as well. However, we also have the God metals and their alloys. Since there are 16 base metals, there will probably be another set of 16 per God metal. This means that, for lerasium, atium and harmonium, there is another set of 16. So, there must be 64 metals, plus their alloys. However, since lerasium makes you a Mistborn and atium can steal any power or attribute better than any other metal, harmonium will most probably be able to gift feruchemy to anyone who taps/stores it. So, in total, there must be 67 metals, used for a, f and h

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I believe there is a WoB that says there could exist 'God metals' of every shard, so that's actually 16 additional groups of 16 - 17 if you count Harmonium - for a total of 18 groups of 16 metals. 16 x 18 = 272 total metals that should (in theory) all have an allomantic, feruchemical and hemalurgic function. Interestingly, Atium's ability to steal anything Hemalurgically is not unique, as we know that 'Trellium' can also steal multiple attributes (though maybe not to the same degree). It's entirely possible that all God Metals actually have the same Hemalurgic ability to steal anything, and we just haven't seen enough Lerasium or Harmonium for it to be used in that way.

Side note: Lets not try stabbing someone with a pure Harmonium spike, or do so while I'm safely outside the blast radius :P

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Yeah, um, thing is, 16 x 18 = 288, not 272

5 hours ago, Aaronator17 said:

I believe there is a WoB that says there could exist 'God metals' of every shard, so that's actually 16 additional groups of 16 - 17 if you count Harmonium - for a total of 18 groups of 16 metals. 16 x 18 = 272 total metals that should (in theory) all have an allomantic, feruchemical and hemalurgic function. Interestingly, Atium's ability to steal anything Hemalurgically is not unique, as we know that 'Trellium' can also steal multiple attributes (though maybe not to the same degree). It's entirely possible that all God Metals actually have the same Hemalurgic ability to steal anything, and we just haven't seen enough Lerasium or Harmonium for it to be used in that way.

Side note: Lets not try stabbing someone with a pure Harmonium spike, or do so while I'm safely outside the blast radius :P

Also, I realised that, but it was while I was in the park, so I couldn't upload it till I got back, by which time you posted the above

Edited by Valette Renaitre
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9 hours ago, Valette Renaitre said:

Yeah, um, thing is, 16 x 18 = 288, not 272

You are absolutely correct :)  I must have misclicked on my calculator

6 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Trellium has only been shown to steal physical quadrant abilities.

I hadn't actually noticed this! Thanks for pointing it out, and yes that's a good point. So I guess the question becomes is stealing multiple (not necessarily all) attributes an ability of the God metals, or just Atium and 'Trellium' thus far because of something specific that we don't quite know yet?

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That presumes each shard has 16. That sounds like a reasonable assumption, that is probably wrong. 

It has been pointed out,

Spoiler

that each shard we have seen, seems to have a characteristic number. Honor has 10, Preservation has 16, Odium 9, etc.

I know there is a post about that. I should find it at some point. 

In that case we would have

Spoiler

1+2+3...+16 = 136

 

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Actually, I was thinking that only alloys of atium can steal multiple abilities, since hemalurgy is of ruin and so is atium, and since alloys of lerasium give misting powers, alloys of atium should be able to steal multiple abilities/power/attributes

16 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

1+2+3...+16 = 136

 

Still, a large part of my theory wiped out. What number do you think ruin has?

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That has me scratching my head.

8 minutes ago, Valette Renaitre said:

Actually, I was thinking that only alloys of atium can steal multiple abilities, since hemalurgy is of ruin and so is atium, and since alloys of lerasium give misting powers, alloys of atium should be able to steal multiple abilities/power/attributes

Still, a large part of my theory wiped out. What number do you think ruin has?

Atium etc, can give us a total of like 48 different alloys and metals, all together, so I really should have included that. 

We know some di-shardic planets have a certain number system, but which shard does that belong to? Or is that their sum or product or something? 

I wonder, if we had the numbers for each shard, if we could arrange the shards in a pattern. (Well, a more interesting pattern than 1,2,3....)

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Actually, wouldn't it be something a bit more like

Spoiler

1x2x3...x16=20922789890000

since for every shard's metal you could get alloys of it, then take another shard's metal
and make alloys of that, then alloy together the different metals and alloys to make new alloys that can be burned

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Some evidence seems to suggest It's the Planet that dictate some numeric rules build in the Magic System (along with the Focus).

So probably the Metallic Arts Will express themself as sets of 16 elements regaddles from the godmetal you use to make the set's base itself.

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10 minutes ago, Yata said:

Some evidence seems to suggest It's the Planet that dictate some numeric rules build in the Magic System

In addition to the above, there was a relatively recent WoB that actually specified that not all shards are associated with a specific number. Plus there's no evidence to suggest that even if they were, that their alloys would be limited to that number. 16 is a number related specifically to the Cosmere (and also to Preservation).

50 minutes ago, Valette Renaitre said:

Actually, I was thinking that only alloys of atium can steal multiple abilities

Are you thinking perhaps that Trellium is an alloy of another God metal and Atium? That would actually be really interesting! Especially given how rare Atium is in Era 2 and the title of the next book (The Lost Metal [Atium]).

42 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said:

Atium etc, can give us a total of like 48 different alloys and metals

Just wondering where you're getting 48 from? 

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9 minutes ago, Aaronator17 said:

In addition to the above, there was a relatively recent WoB that actually specified that not all shards are associated with a specific number. Plus there's no evidence to suggest that even if they were, that their alloys would be limited to that number. 16 is a number related specifically to the Cosmere (and also to Preservation).

Are you thinking perhaps that Trellium is an alloy of another God metal and Atium? That would actually be really interesting! Especially given how rare Atium is in Era 2 and the title of the next book (The Lost Metal [Atium])

1) That's a relief. My theory is back on! Edit: it was never broken; only a part of it was changed

2) I originally thought trellium was an alloy of atium and a base metal, but an alloy with another God metal makes sense, since harmony can't detect it, so it shouldn't be from preservation or ruin, but more than one spike resulted in harmony being able to control the wearer, so part of it being made of atium makes sense (I'm assuming trellium is the metal Paalm used to make hemalurgic spikes for herself. Is this true?).

Edited by Valette Renaitre
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Just now, Valette Renaitre said:

I'm assuming trellium is the metal Paalm used to make hemalurgic spikes for herself. Is this true?

Yeah, it's also the metal used to make the Chimeras (holding an unknown trait). However it's just the fan-name for it, not the official in-universe name (yet?). 

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15 minutes ago, Aaronator17 said:

In addition to the above, there was a relatively recent WoB that actually specified that not all shards are associated with a specific number. Plus there's no evidence to suggest that even if they were, that their alloys would be limited to that number. 16 is a number related specifically to the Cosmere (and also to Preservation).

There is no evidence about the 16 to be Preservation's Number. We know only It's relevant for Scadrial's magic but is equal linked to Preservation or Ruin...So there is more.

18 minutes ago, Aaronator17 said:

Are you thinking perhaps that Trellium is an alloy of another God metal and Atium? That would actually be really interesting! Especially given how rare Atium is in Era 2 and the title of the next book (The Lost Metal [Atium]).

This is Probably impossible as Harmony didn't know what the Trellium is...If there is a part of Atium he would be able to recognize at least the Trellium as an Alloy of something Alien and Atium

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8 minutes ago, Yata said:

 

This is Probably impossible as Harmony didn't know what the Trellium is...If there is a part of Atium he would be able to recognize at least the Trellium as an Alloy of something Alien and Atium

WRONG. That's why, with more than one hemalurgic spike made of trellium, harmony can sense it.

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6 minutes ago, Valette Renaitre said:

WRONG. That's why, with more than one hemalurgic spike made of trellium, harmony can sense it.

Please don't expose your speculations as facts.

Trellium Spikes seem to be unseen by Harmony but once he know where you are if your Soul is exposed enough (Number of Spike regaddles of the material). He could Control you.

Be unseen and unable to be controlled are separate facts...As you could se with Emotional Allomancy. You didn't feel the target you could influence Before you start to overcome their defense.

 

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5 minutes ago, Valette Renaitre said:

Dang... I just got roasted, didn't I?

Oh well. Back to the drawing board!

Wait, you could be right...Simply It's not sure. What I wanted to say is to not take a single and unclear istance as proof for mechanics

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7 hours ago, Aaronator17 said:

Just wondering where you're getting 48 from? 

 

Spoiler

 

INTERVIEW: Nov 24th, 2011

FIRE ARCADIA

Are there 50 Allomantic Metals?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Nearly. Does Harmony have a metal?

FIRE ARCADIA

Is that an alloy of Lerasium and Atium?

BRANDON SANDERSON

You're along the right lines.

 

7 hours ago, Aaronator17 said:

In addition to the above, there was a relatively recent WoB that actually specified that not all shards are associated with a specific number. Plus there's no evidence to suggest that even if they were, that their alloys would be limited to that number. 16 is a number related specifically to the Cosmere (and also to Preservation).

Now my theories are being dashed! Let me know if you can find that WoB. I had supposed that each shard had a characteristic number. 

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8 hours ago, Valette Renaitre said:

It doesn't really matter, I've spent much too long on this topic, it's time to move on to something else. N.B. everyone wants to be a chromium compounder! Make yourself super lucky

I asked Brandon some mechanics questions about the use of 'fortune' (which F-Chromium stores) at my last signing and he's keeping those cards close to his chest but he did say that his conception isn't necessarily what we're imagining it to be. I too am looking forward to however it works out but at this point we can only speculate as to its effects.

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23 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:
Quote

Just wondering where you're getting 48 from?

  Hide contents

INTERVIEW: Nov 24th, 2011

FIRE ARCADIA

Are there 50 Allomantic Metals?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Nearly. Does Harmony have a metal?

FIRE ARCADIA

Is that an alloy of Lerasium and Atium?

BRANDON SANDERSON

You're along the right lines.

 

Minor issue with that (which Brandon somewhat pointed out) 16 Metals + 16 Atium Alloys + 16 Lerasium Alloys is 48. Add Atium and Lerasium by themselves and you get 50.

But he asked if we included Harmonium in the 50. We counted both of the other God Metals, so it makes sense to count it too. Now we're already at 51 before we even consider Harmonium Alloys. "Nearly" often implies less than.

Then there was the other WoB where all we got was "way more than 16, but less than infinite" but that could be counting all 16 god metals, their alloys, and any multi-shard combo god metals. It's around a million if you look at it that way. 

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So if that theory is true, then the cosmere is going to go through a lot of expansion pretty soon. Otherwise, either the metals will stay unfound (which would be a huge pity) or the cosmere will be going on for a veeeery long time. Not that that's a bad thing, but it kind of scares me to think that I'll have wait decades for the final metals to come out. Not to mention that I'll have to spend a FORTUNE on books. Not a very nice prospect.

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