A Letter to Sanderson

[Rockobar Bridgeman]

Hi, I sent this letter to Brandon, but I think it unlikely that I might get a reply. I would not expect you to read all of it, but I thought some of you might be be interested in the Sexuality section of it in reference for his future work. A heads up, it discusses all of Brandon's published works:

Dear Brandon,

 

I came to you having finished the Wheel of Time series and was feeling a hollow space within me that needed to be filled by more fantasy. Therefore, let me make it clear that I owe you a huge debt of thanks for your work on WoT and the Cosmere. There were a few topics that I’d like to discuss - in the same way how you feel the need to get a story down on paper, I would like these thoughts out of my head.

 

Sexuality: The main point that I’d like to focus on is the heterosexual relationships of characters. I admire the romantic bonds that your characters forge whether they come from hardship or circumstance and personally I dismiss much of the claim that they are passionless or platonic. However, I would urge you against skirting around when sex actually does happen. It does not matter whether you claim to be a bit of a prude, you yourself mentioned in your Dumbledore EUOlogy that writing characters having a jovial time from is a natural part of any believable world; sex is much the same. The need for relaxation and good cheer amongst friends is as human an experience as two sweaty people lying in bed pleasuring each other - either from passionate love, casual abandon or respect founded on pressured times. Fantasy is primarily drawn from Western medieval-renaissance influence which itself was frequented by the casualness of farmhands with milk maids, easy lovers’ induced by Mediterranean festivities or young nobles dallying with maidens keeping secret from their father that they may not have an intact hymen anymore. Sex extends down to more disquieting interactions between noble and peasant girl that then need to portrayed in a negative light. Despite the control of the Church, people were just better at hiding it. It is one of the only drawbacks that I see in organised religion today: it clings to the dregs of social acceptability from centuries past. It was useful as a social construct when rural families had little knowledge of contraception to stop diseases when they could not afford multiple partners over a lifetime, however, with how far we have advanced in technology the prohibition now seems outdated. Raw primal desire is just something we cannot get rid of - as anyone who has gone through teenage years well knows.

 

This may be prying, but I feel that some of your reluctance on this topic may come from what you have shared of your upbringing, in that was a sexual conservative one. You had to wait, of course by church and choice, until you could share with your wife something that you never let out. As such, it is a very personal and closeted topic for you to broach fully as it stirs too many feelings close to your home. However, you have said that you want to push the boundaries of what is expected in writing. We know that epic fantasy was weighed down by the preconception of Tolkien and Jordan of no sex. It seems only natural that if you want to push you and your books to new places, expanding that sexuality is the logical way to go. It may not reflect with your personal views or you may worry that it will reflect badly in your community. So what. What you put into your book is pushing your artform and your art is capturing the human nature. If you want to see under the skin of what makes a human graceful, an artist draws nude pictures; if you want to see beneath the skin of what really makes a human tick, you write in their deepest primal urges.

 

You may say ‘All my batch of fantasy contemporaries are doing this, so I don’t want to do what they’re doing’. Yes and no. While in the last 15 years sex has been rising to the pages, it just seems to be making a big splash when surrounded in an ocean of meekness. I’m not asking you to go as visceral in sexual details as GRRM, for that is his style and how he plays with sexuality. If I wanted to see more of that kind, I would go read more GRRM. In fact, you started to move in a more positive direction with Warbreaker; it should not matter if the novel’s concept concerned was trying to get with child. However, that withstanding, every other novel feels like a Drab: a incredibly complex biological organism with divine proportions of engineering living an intricate life yet it fails to look quite right - it is missing its Breath. There are numerous examples I am sure you are familiar with, the most popularised one that of Vin and Elend sleeping in separate rooms before they are married, despite having been in a relationship for years and that you hint at their desire for each other’s body parts. Only after they are married is it mentioned that Vin will wear a top off in a tent. Again, I think this is an issue that stems from your personal life, that you never allow characters to engage in sexual matters before marriage. As I have mentioned in previous paragraphs, there are reasons for this hesitance and why it is limiting. Perhaps removing this limitation is the first step to opening yourself to your characters previously unseen natures. Start by creating a mere sentence that notes a main character coming out of a door tucking their shirt in. All the while, we can see inside the room where a random/side character is laying in bed with the sheet pulled over their chest. A simple casual occurrence, with no need to make a big deal out of it. Warbreaker was approaching this yet was still tamer. As you have claimed in the past, writers draw out their material from their own lives. This does not mean you have to jump in a time machine back to your college years and experiment with one night stands. But by talking with people of different life experience, sexual morality, a woman outside your community and your author friends who have written sexual passages will prepare you to slowly progress into writing sexual nature. As I have said, your task as an artist is to relate and expound the emotions that are in our lives. It means when a character describes the love of his life, there should be descriptive language of how the light of her eye dances with flashes of white and violet, the reddening of her cheeks as she runs to meet him in breathless excitement and the soft slope of the marble white skin down her back. The aim is to emote the perception of grace and beauty to the readers, the same feeling they would have when looking upon a master artwork. Moments such as these you know are excellent in order to slow the pace of the story. But similarly, one must be able to deal with eros, something which is so common between the butting heads of young and vibrant characters. Let us say, for example, Renarin grew jealous of Adolin for having an exotic and beautiful girlfriend (I avoid using Kaladin as I imagine that he has grown to like Shallan through their shared experience and then realises her outward attractiveness later on. Therefore, his is a merging of love and lust). The young prince on guard duty would notice the way Adolin caresses Shallan by circling the point underneath her wrist, the drop and swell of the breast due to a lower cut dress as Shallan unconsciously leans in towards Adolin across the table. Then there is lust of a minor noble character meeting his barmaid interest for a weekend morning vigorous and enthusiastic coupling. Slightly more challenging is a more domineering relationship such as that I might relate below between Jasnah and Shallan.

 

When writing of lust, the danger to avoid from a lack of sexual experience before marriage is that you do not create the sense that the reader should be joining in on some gigglish teenager ignorance of a taboo. The less dangerous yet still important caution is to avoid making females incapable of displaying lustful actions - to do otherwise is to debase them to the traditional Victorian roles of ‘stiffly lie there and take it’.  

 

Your stories are known to have grit in them, whether it be the harsh world of Mistborn, the gruesome imagery of Bloody Tan’s menagerie or strong and broken characters like Kaladin. This realistic aspect would only be compounded with a realistic representation of sex. Just as violence needs to be shown in an oppressive regime, a high stress situation may likely bring people closer together. An unconventional relationship that blossoms out of respect is likely the undone challenge that you would relish, yet I would only appreciate if you are willing to commit to showing its full romantic development. Below are some more encounters from the Cosmere were this issue cropped up:

 

With Wayne and MeLaan, I was getting slightly excited that you had written your first sexual premarital experience. And yes, well done that they managed to get their tops off, but it is a little simple-minded that Wayne and MeLaan were just kissing under there. When I first saw the words ‘neckin’ and ‘snogging’ I thought it was a joke, that others characters were trying to pass off a euphemism to protect Marasi or Steris’ innocence. But no, all parties seriously believed the two were just touching lips. Firstly, the amount of time that it took the train to travel to Ironstand and its protracted fight sequence gave plenty of time for foreplay then a passionate rebound shag reaching at least third base. Wayne’s personality and environment leave him with little inhibitions; the same for an immortal being who has had centuries to try every trick in the book.  

 

I thought it unlikely, but I had a faint thought that for the first time a lesbian relationship between main characters might occur. This possibility came to me from the gradual respect that Shallan and Jasnah grew for each other as two capable scholars. There is also the Shallan’s adoration of Jasnah in the student-teacher position that many fans were quick to wonder if it represented bisexual feelings. Jasnah herself finds herself seems so free from men and previous attachments that once we start to see cracks that mark her as a human, we can wonder if she might allow Shallan’s attentions to become something more. It would create a perverse moral quandary to explore if Jasnah were to take it up: if it is an abuse of the pedagogy relationship and would it require secrecy. I am not disappointed that this did not occur, maybe the opposite as Jasnah is one of my favourite characters. You would have received an angry email about how you did not know what to do with a strong atheist character if she had turned out to be dead. Fortunately, once Shallan failed to stumble over her corpse, I suspected that she lived, as I suspect that mere assassins could not kill Jasnah -  even if the encounter tempts the dangerous waters of character resurrection. I thought Jasnah’s disappearance might have been unnecessary so that Shallan would be all alone, as I did so enjoy Jasnah and what she could have added to Navani and in the Shattered Plains by taking command of the royal court. For the first book and a bit, the dynamic between the two was what made Shallan interesting, compared to the second book when it focused on Shallan’s past. In the end, I do appreciate the growth that Shallan underwent. To bring it back to the  point, you have said that you do not concern yourself with whatever orientation that characters have. I agree that making a big deal out of it would be the wrong direction. Yet you do not abstain from romantic relationships in your books. It makes it a perfectly acceptable precedent to trial other kinds of relationships.

 

Please do not make Adolin into another Gawyn. The Trakand prince, despite his struggle to find his position in relation to Egwene, died still not able to reconcile that his love for Egwene needed him to put aside his pride and be her shadow. His selfishness lead to his death and failure, thus letting Egwene sacrifice her life so freely. That inability earned Gawyn one of the most hated positions among WoT fans. I fear that I can see you setting Adolin on that same tangent. He worries that his place will be overshadowed by having a Knight Radiant for a wife. However, I hope that I am mistaken. Although Adolin is boastful and proud, he does seem a better rounded person than Gawyn. Adolin was drawn to Shallan because she was something unconventional and exotic to him. I hope their dynamic leads to the couple working together as a fighting duo rather than the diametrically opposed Jordan couple.

 

Blushweaver and Lightsong. God I was sad that they never got to consummate their relationship. Again, I hope  that your personal stance had nothing to do with that they did not get to have sex because they were decadent unmarried gods. Blushweaver was set well to be one of your most erotically entrancing characters in your entire cosmology. I do admire the two’s articulate flirting - it does represent the most realistic building towards a relationship that I have so far. Blushweaver’s reproach to Siri, “Find someone else’s bed to climb into, you little slut”, left me laughing for quite some time and endeared her to me. I wonder if it would have been more tragic if Blushweaver and Lightsong ended up in a cell together in the end, Lightsong reciprocates Blushweaver’s desires in the face of the situation and they end up having sex on the cell floor or if as it happened, Blushweaver never really knowing that Lightsong really did care for her in the way that she wished. Hopefully they are up there in the Beyond, making up for all that lost time.

 

In conclusion, I feel that you have come some way since the innocence in Elantris and Mistborn and are spreading your wings. Mr Jordan started incorporating more sexual influences too before his passing. It is only a matter of time before this challenge takes you, but I would much prefer it now when you writing so much good and prolific work.

 

Religion: On a different point, I have noticed that it does seem that the characters that hold true to religious beliefs come out on top. Do not get me wrong, I love a good pantheon in fantasy, but I hope this is not a permanent fixture. Sazed did not deserve to Ascend because he went through a crisis of faith and back, but because he was one of the few characters that has gone through trials and we still believe is morally good. That trial did not have to be a religious one and there were plenty of morally grey characters that fill the quota to hold both Ruin and Preservation. Preservation set up someone who cared about the world and this is the person who Saze is. In this, I feel the resolution of characters is sometimes too simple: religious characters are true and the simple good of deontology wins the day. Someone like Dalinar seems a little too pure for what is to come. I hope that when Jasnah confronts her uncle on the whole quandary of if time is worth praying to a Shard, especially if by the end of the Stormlight Archives Cultivation dies. As for The Diagram, the tone of their passages perpetuates that they are the bad guys, but really in the face of an apocalypse, I hope utilitarianism will be shown for its ideological worth. What would you do to save your own wife and children? A sociopathic force has a gun to their heads, do you deny that you would choose the random stranger to die instead. What if it were four random strangers’ lives, five? I think I know which you still would pick. At what number do you let the gunman pull the trigger. It is likely that you never would, not for all the other six billion of us. To protect what is your world, you would give anything.

 

Death: I am sorry to compare you to GRRM again, but I feel the death of characters is sometimes muted because you save them all towards the ends of your books. You might be relying the deaths as ending bombs to give closure to the novel. Valued characters’ deaths spaced sporadically throughout the structure is part of the formula which makes GRRM’s deaths so well received and emotional. As you say, characters have to take risks and their consequences, but one of those big risks should end in the ultimate consequence in Act 1, perhaps our main viewpoint character. Perhaps Dox and Clubs’ deaths didn’t hit as hard as they were meant to, but the only other time can think of a character death midway through the plot is Parlin and you yourself admitted that he needed more done to him to give his departure justice, yet still he is not a primary character. When Karata died, the outrage at her demise was not the event itself, but that not enough attention was given to it. Simply her head gets cut off while running. Even an extra sentence of Raoden acknowledging the light going out of her eyes would have left the audience much happier with the departure of an invested character.

 

Genre: I must say that I am not keen on Mistborn advancing technology to the later end of the 1800’s. I am a diehard fantasy fan and am not of that more common breed that can also stomach sci-fi as well. Give me the setting of magic, medieval times and curious creatures and you can sell me a story of whatever concept you want. However, I start to get discomforted by technology further late Renaissance/Galileo times. It starts to drift from high fantasy. I know of the pitched Mistborn ‘trilogy of trilogies’, but with the Wild West/Victorian feel of Wax and Wayne, we already are into low fantasy territory. The novel use of Allomancy still as a magic kept me through the prologue concerning guns and then the partners’ chemistry, but the magic is starting slip away from the story’s control (machine guns being chief among them). I occasionally appreciate an urban low fantasy such as Skulduggery Pleasant, but only if follows its own rules and genre. By the time we reach modern day and then sci-fi plasma guns and artificial intelligence, I fear that all will be lost that was the spirit of Mistborn. It may be a clever idea to transition a series from fantasy to sci-fi, but I worry if I’ll stick around for it. The implications that it has for the Cosmere are too great, as our shiny technology will inevitably reach the other Shardworlds and turn your anthology into a sci-fi collection. This narrative danger is seen in Sixth of the Dusk. And that worries me because when you started writing you said to yourself that you were going to be a fantasy writer. I would not be particularly interested in a war between the futuristic Scadrial versus high fantasy era societies - it would just seem cheesy. The only hope I can see is that all the future scientific discoveries on Scadrial will come Allomantic innovation, much as the Southerners have, as opposed to electrical currents and telephones. Even still, I can just see our own ideas of the future such as flying cars being excused by Allomancy while losing the feel of fantasy. That said, here’s a suggestion for a potential death in the Wax and Wayne series: a Hemalurgist could die via accidental electrocution through their Hemalurgic spikes, Tesla style, courtesy of Wayne’s beneficiary Sophi Tarcsel.

This letter may appear a scathing criticism, but I love your books - these opinions may simply be more useful than the praise that would needed to fill another correspondence. I am hugely looking forward to more Stormlight and have pre-ordered Oathbringer. The cultures and biogeography of Roshar are a world unlike anything I have seen before in fantasy. Blue skin and crystalline fingernails, I’m looking forward to seeing to seeing a cross breed of Thaylen eyebrows and whatever eccentricities that you conjure.

 

Best of luck,

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2017 by Rockobar

[Oversleep Bondsmith]

tl;dr:

Quote

My world view is the one true view and so I feel I must impose it on everyone else, especially the author I happen to read.

This includes approach to sexuality (which I'll let myself pry into your personal history and worldview and offhandendly consider it wrong), religion (which is BTW an outdated social construct), deaths of characters (because I think GRRM writes good books) and keeping books locked in fantasy setting for no good reason other than not liking anything which is not high fantasy (but I'll occasionaly let slip by some low fantasy like Wax&Wayne, just don't do it anymore).

Now that I saved everyone's time on reading that wall of text you can decide whether you want to downvote him or let it be.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Oversleep

[king of nowhere Voidbringer]

you expressed your persnal opinions, which are different from those of most others here. not because we are mindless fans who like everything their idol does, but because liking what sanderson does made us fans. it is strange to find on this site one with so much disagreement with the writer because one with so much disagreement generally does not become involved enough to post on a fan forum.

preamble said, I disagree with most all of your opinions.

- sexuality. I like it as it is, or at most hinted a bit more. not because I am prude or shy, in fact I have quite a lot of experience with erotic literature, but simply because I don't think the books would gain anything from more sex. ok, we know those two guys are having sex. do we really need a description? Not me. It would feel like a bit of the aforementioned erotic literature just got teleported into the middle of a fantasy book. It just doesn't work for me. I've read books with more explicit sexuality, and I never enjoied it. While I don't mind hints that characters have a sexual life (since you mentioned wot, I appreciated the references to the white tower being ripe with lesbism, which is a realistic consequence of segregating so many pubescent girls together away from boys) I would rather the details remained private among the characters.

- religion. You are wrong in saying that in sanderson's books religious characters are good characters. There are plenty of religious negative characters (dilaf and his dakor monks come first, hraten at least has good intentions, but there is also vivenna's judgmental attitude) and plenty of not-religious good characters (jasnah takes the cake here, but kelsier is also another shining example). heck, brandon is regularly praised by atheistic people telling him how well he represented one of them and how amazed they were at fidning a strongly religious person who could portray and atheist so well. he takes effort in giving justice to any ideological view different from his own, and he does a really good job of it. I think you cherry-picked a couple of examples that are not representative of brandon's general writing.

- death. yes, most times his characters die at the end of the story arc. but then, brandon always kills his characters when he feels it's appropriate for the story. most times it's at the end, which makes sense because it's the climax, the time when the characters take more risks. ok, it would be a bit more realistic to have, say, adolin randomly killed by a stray arrow through the eyeslit in a meaningless plateau run, but again, i don't see the story gaining much from it. in fact, the story follows the main characters because they are main characters. if they get killed before accomplishing much, then clearly they didn't add much to the story, and they are not worthy of being followed closely, they are not main characters. giving lots of space to someone who will just get killed may not be the best storytelling.

- genre. I don't consider myself a fan of fantasy. in fact, most standard fantasy just feels to me like a cheap lord of the rings ripoff. what i actually like about fantasy in interesting worldbuilding. if a world was sketched well enough, I could read about it without even a story happening. And so i strongly apppreciate that brandon is carrying his worlds in different directions. I absolutely love what he's doing with scadrial, and I absolutely love the way he's mixing magic and technology. I never appreciated how the two didn't mix in the wot. I am a scientist and a strong believer in progress, and the general attitude of traditional fantasy of progress=bad, ancient=good, things get worse with time, was always veery unsatisfying to me. anyway, i love the exploration part of fantasy, and so exploring what happens to a world with the passing of time is very interesting to me.

[AeonaRin Cobalt Guard]

You're like one of those guys telling Brandon to be more like GRRM before he got published. 

If I wanted to read something like GRRM I would read storming GRRM. I, we here, like BS because he is different. He's his own person, not another pervy old man buying his audience with sex and violence. I am personally storming fed up with sex in every modern fantasy book. Erotic scenes add as much substance to the story as describing someone's defecation. It's natural, yes, but I don't give a rust. 

The religion thing - you didn't pay much attention to what you were reading, eh? Probably you were too focused on finding fantasies material or something. I'm not going to bother explaining you how the whole cosmere is build upon Adonalsium. Or that Dalinar wasn't always this way. You should have noticed by now. 

To summarize. People who try to impose their believes on others - that is like you, not like Brandon - make me angry. 

 

Edit: I am sorry for the choice of words and being emotional. I stand by the context. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by strumienpola

[Hemalurgic Headshot Full Shardbearer]

4 minutes ago, strumienpola said:

You're like one of those guys telling Brandon to be more like GRRM before he got published. 

If I wanted to read something like GRRM I would read storming GRRM. I, we here, like BS because he is different. He's his own person, not another pervy old man buying his audience with sex and violence. I am personally storming fed up with sex in every modern fantasy book. Erotic scenes add as much substance to the story as describing someone's defecation. It's natural, yes, but I don't give a rust. 

The religion thing - you didn't pay much attention to what you were reading, eh? Probably you were too focused on finding fantasies material or something. I'm not going to bother explaining you how the whole cosmere is build upon Adonalsium. Or that Dalinar wasn't always this way. You should have noticed by now. 

To summarize. People who try to impose their believes on others - that is like you, not like Brandon - make me angry. 

Amen.

[AeonaRin Cobalt Guard]

9 minutes ago, Hemalurgic_Headshot said:

Amen.

Yeah, I might have been too rude though. Sorry, but this letter honestly is crem. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by strumienpola

[Pagerunner Prime]

What, is OP not allowed to have an opinion on what would improve Brandon's books in their mind? Or just not allowed to mention it around you guys? Many of their points (religious views of characters, hidden sexuality, and overuse of resurrection) are all things Brandon has engaged with in detail on Reddit when people have posted similar complaints. Nothing here that deserves downvotes.

They're well-considered ideas, backed up with plenty of explanation and comparisons that are designed to give concrete examples. I'll disagree with the fundamentals of the opinions, and honestly I wouldn't enjoy if Brandon followed the advice given. My preferences for discussion range more towards in-universe theories than these sorts of metatextual analyses, so I'm not particularly interested in engaging with the topic at hand. But let's not flame a brand new user for sharing thoughts.

Welcome to the Shard, @Rockobar. Normally, the level of detail you put into your post would get a much better reception around these parts. I guess you've just managed to find a sensitive topic to make an entrance on; by all means, don't let it stop you from visiting other parts of the forum.

[AeonaRin Cobalt Guard]

1 minute ago, Pagerunner said:

Nothing here that deserves downvotes.

Well, all the GRRM mentions do. That's just really ignorant. 

[Binnut Babsk]

Welcome to the forums, I hope you will find your place here.

That said, I find myself agreeing with some of the points raised by others here and I think that the tone of your letter is what some of us are having issues with.

What is bringing us together here is a love for Brandon Sandersons books, and we might not always like all of his decisions, but we can generally agree that he is doing what he believes to be the right decisions for these books. Some of us might give some feedback, and tell him what we liked and did not like as much.

I think your letter comes of as not suggesting something that you might like take a bigger place, but as telling him that he is doing it wrong, and the telling him what he should do. Expressing the same "feedback" as "I feel that there is to much of this and to little of that" instead might make it more likely to give effect, as well as triggering discussion about how explicit sexual relationships should be for example. This would also make it sound less like you are demanding these changes.

If you write your opinions in a less "strong" style, and more diplomatic style, I think that you would find a good home here, as most posts is motivated by opinions in one way or another.

As a final note, I do not think that sex should be much more explicit in the books, but I do respect that you would like that.

[swieczq Noble]

The only thing I could possibly agree with is the paragraph about death of characters, but I wouldn't want Brandon to change his style only to accomodate to that, reading through his Sanderson Avalanche™ is VERY satysfying. Apart from that, this could destroy the beautiful thing about Brandon's books - hope that they bear. Reading his books gives me lots of positive energy. Let's leave GRRM things to GRRM and Sanderson things to Sanderson, I guess.

Apart from that, I actually disagree with everything else, I don't think that Brandon's books need more sex, or that religion/atheism is not displayed well/tends to favour religious characters (although I'm a religious person myself, so my viewpoint can be influenced by this)

Edited March 28, 2017 by swieczq
Added some text to better explain my thoughts

[king of nowhere Voidbringer]

everyone, try to calm down. yes, that letter is poorly conceived and it has some "my world view is the one true view and so I feel i must impose it on everyone else", but it was politely worded and therefore deserves a polite response. Do we not brag about the niceness of this community? Is this not a place where one can write his ideas without fear of being bashed if they do not conform to the majority?

And, perhaps most relevant to the specific case, can we convince him of his mistake by calling GRRM an old pervy and his followers people who are only in for the sex and violence? This is the same attitude we want to discourage. Yes, the OP dislikes many of the things that are the mark of sanderson and that are exactly what most of us likes about his books. Yes, the OP shows he has not understood some subtleties of the story - you'd be surprised, but not everyone reread every book several times looking for subtle clues and then goes to find all the author's interviews; casual readers don't know of adonalsium or hoid - and he probably cherry-picked some evidence to support his wrong conclusions about religion in the books. and yes, he had a somewhat arrogant attitude about it - something many people, me included, can adopt without realizing. There just isn't enough to bash him like some of the replies did.

[Extesian Bondsmith]

A lot of effort to make Zucchini status!

But on a more serious note I'm not going to criticize it. People are entitled to their opinion. I disagree, but hey, that's ok.

Welcome to the Shard @Rockobar.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Extesian

[Pagerunner Prime]

14 minutes ago, strumienpola said:

Well, all the GRRM mentions do. That's just really ignorant. 

Two mentions of GRRM. One saying 'You don't need to go so far on sexual themes as ASoIaF.' Once to illustrate how surprise deaths can heighten the emotion, and I can't think of a better example than Martin. That really is his calling card.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles God Beyond]

If an author is uncomfortable writing graphic violence, they shouldn't be pressured to add more graphic violence to their work. 

If an author is uncomfortable writing about religion, they shouldn't be pressured to add a religious character to their next book. 

If an author is uncomfortable writing sex scenes, they shouldn't be pressured into writing sex scenes. 

End of discussion. 

[AeonaRin Cobalt Guard]

Hey, I didn't say GRRM fans only read him for sex and violence. I said that's his thing. And that's ok. I did enjoy at least half of ASoIaF, actually. What makes me angry is that OP goes to another author to give him this "great advice" to be more like someone he's not. And I was pretty rude about it, I did apologize like two minutes later, I'm quite quick-tempered like that. 

Rethinking it, you're right @king of nowhere that OP might not have known about Adonalsium, so my bad. But the whole overtone of their letter remains ignorant and arrogant and even though wording is polite, a whole world more polite than my own, I cannot give it to "just expressing their opinion". For me, personally, it's like telling someone "you shouldn't be eating that". Really incongruous. 

[CaptainRyan Worldbringer]

SUPER EDIT: In my opinion, I do not think a downvote is warranted for this post. I will be supplying an upvote to counteract the downvotes I am seeing. I do not agree with the general premise, or delivery, of the OP but I also think we, as a community, need to be welcoming to new people and new ideas - even if we do not agree with them. Rockobar did not do anything worthy of a downvote, imo. I also recognize that people might disagree with me so please take this simply as a request for kindness and not a reprimand to anyone who did downvote.

 

First of all, welcome to the forums @Rockobar! Thanks for sharing your thoughts with the rest of the 17th Shard.

Second, I want to add a disclaimer before I respond. It should go without saying, though I will say it anyway, that each and every person is allowed their own opinion of Brandon's work, his style, their favorite ice cream, etc. My response is merely a reflection of my own opinion.

That out of the way, I would have to say that I object to some of what you wrote Rockobar. Particularly this line:

30 minutes ago, Rockobar said:

As I have said, your task as an artist is to relate and expound the emotions that are in our lives.

Is that really his task as an artist? Because, honestly, I think it can be far more expansive than that. I've viewed Brandon's "task" or, #jokingnotjoking, his "Intent" as sharing with us the Cosmere and any other works he decides to write. Brandon is under no obligation to produce a certain style of work, to explore certain themes, or to do anything really other than what he and his publishers work out in contract. Now, obviously, Brandon needs to write things that people want or else he will not be offered more contracts by his publishers haha, but, in the end, Brandon has no mandate to relate or expound upon the emotions that are in our lives. You might want that. Others might want that. But to declare it his task as an artist is a bit presumptuous in my opinion.

 

Honestly, this letter seems to be your projection of what a writer is or what they should write about mingled with your inherent assumptions and biases. E.g.:

40 minutes ago, Rockobar said:

I think I know which you still would pick.

Do you find it inconceivable that there exists a subset of people who would choose to save six (6) billion strangers over their family?

42 minutes ago, Rockobar said:

It was useful as a social construct when rural families had little knowledge of contraception to stop diseases when they could not afford multiple partners over a lifetime

This is what you boil religion down to? A social construct to prevent STIs? Again, you can have any opinion you want but I guarantee you that Brandon, and millions of other followers of religion, will not be swayed by this theory. 

46 minutes ago, Rockobar said:

I fear that all will be lost that was the spirit of Mistborn.

I am optimistic that we will see an amazing blend of fantasy and sci-fi.

 

All that being said, I did want to say, again, welcome and I hope you will not take the tepid reception of your first post too hard. 

[soyperson Dawnsinger]

I concur with Twi. 

Look, man, your suggestions and opinions are yours and are valid, but if he were to change all these things you suggest (and, side note, the method of suggestion wasn't exactly the best; you wouldn't walk up to an admired artist and say "I like your work... but I like that other person's better; change this, this, this, and this," but I digress), if Brandon didn't write in the way he did, and hadn't garnered up enough avid readers like ourselves to his wonderful works, this site wouldn't exist. Sanderson is Sanderson, not Jordan or Martin. And we love him.

tl;dr:

I'm sad to see that you spent up some of your free time penning this thorough letter telling my favorite author where he has gone wrong, but thanks for your input. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by bleeder

[Weltall Voidbringer]

There's nothing inherently wrong about disagreeing with some of Brandon's choices but as a first post on a fansite, a long wall of text that smacks of 'I think you should write differently and here's how you should do it' isn't the best way to make a first impression. And with some of the content...

I'm going to preface this response by pointing out that I am one of those readers who is both a fan of Brandon Sanderson's work and an atheist. I don't see why the two should be in any way mutually exclusive or why I should find an author whose religious views inform their work to be an inherently bad thing, especially when it's done as well as Brandon handles it. Jasnah's already been mentioned so I won't belabor the point but it was really a treat to see a character like that with a well thought-out worldview and an openness to other perspectives (which I think I am too, 'lack belief' versus 'don't believe in' and all that). Which doesn't in any way imply that I don't like any characters who do have strong religious convictions. It's all part of the Cosmere's worldbuilding and Brandon always tries to explore different facets of religion in his works. Elantris has Hrathen with his religion where everything fits into a neat and tidy order and some exploration of what it would mean in a world where anyone could become godlike, Mistborn runs the entire range of options, Warbreaker has a god who doesn't believe his own religion and the ways that different cultures have reacted to the existence of the Returned and Awakening, SA has Dalinar trying to decide how to react when a major pillar of his faith is knocked down... it's all part of what makes the characters and settings fascinating. I love reading that sort of thing even if I'm not religious myself.

3 hours ago, Rockobar said:

Fantasy is primarily drawn from Western medieval-renaissance influence which itself was frequented by the casualness of farmhands with milk maids, easy lovers’ induced by Mediterranean festivities or young nobles dallying with maidens keeping secret from their father that they may not have an intact hymen anymore.

 

Fantasy is a global phenomenon. Fiction as a literary genre is a far newer thing but its antecedents are everywhere. What are the Thousand and One Nights if not fantasies within a framing story? Journey to the West may have been based (very loosely) on a historical event but it's effectively an adventure story with gods and monsters and a party of travellers on A Quest. That the European and American tradition of fantasy was heavily influenced by Renaissance literature doesn't mean that all fantasy must follow all its elements.

One might also point out that the granddaddy of modern English-language fantasy literature is every bit as influenced by its authors religious views as anything Brandon has written.

Quote

Again, I think this is an issue that stems from your personal life, that you never allow characters to engage in sexual matters before marriage.

Dalinar and Navani spring immediately to mind. Yes, they courted in the past and both have been married to other people but they weren't married when they started up their relationship. Kaladin from the same books is implied to have had at least one offscreen relationship. Wayne and MeLaan certainly weren't married when they got 'distracted' during a gunfight in Bands of Mourning... yes, I know you mention this one later, I just want to point out that it contradicts your above absolute statement. I for one am perfectly content to see 'Kiss, fade to the aftermath' rather than Brandon try to write a sex scene just because some readers wanted to see it. That would feel awkward and gratuitious and it's extremely unlikely it would add anything to the characters or the setting that we can't get from the before and after aspects..

Quote

Blushweaver and Lightsong. God I was sad that they never got to consummate their relationship. Again, I hope  that your personal stance had nothing to do with that they did not get to have sex because they were decadent unmarried gods.

Does the name Calmseer ring any bells?

Quote

Genre: I must say that I am not keen on Mistborn advancing technology to the later end of the 1800’s. I am a diehard fantasy fan and am not of that more common breed that can also stomach sci-fi as well. Give me the setting of magic, medieval times and curious creatures and you can sell me a story of whatever concept you want.

You know that Brandon has been up-front about his plans for Mistborn since practically the beginning of his published career, yes? Just because you don't like Fantasy that shades into other genres (never mind that it's all part of the greater speculative fiction umbrella) doesn't mean the concept isn't worth writing about. Brandon specifically wanted to show a dynamic world that changes over the course of the series and Scadrial just happens to be that world. It being the closest analogue to Earth, it's not a surprising pick either. Basically what I'm getting is that you want Brandon to write how you want him to (trodding well-worn paths) instead of experimenting with the genre and finding new things to do, or new ways to explore old ideas. You may like one take on the fantasy genre more than others but that doesn't mean that you can demand an author only write stories in that particular mold. I'll take the dynamic Brandon Sanderson who can write things as diverse as Reckoners or the planned Era 4 Mistborn as well as something more traditional in feel (relatively speaking) like Stormlight Archive.

I'll end this with a single word that I think sums up the tone of your letter: Errorgant.

[Oversleep Bondsmith]

Okay. What really makes me angry is not your points, @Rockobar. I actually agree with some of them.

No, the thing that makes me twitch is the way you're conveying those points. Especially how you dive into Brandon's personal history or how you dismiss the themes a lot of people, including Brandon, consider interesting. Or how you go and, how @CaptainRyan put it:

29 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

This is what you boil religion down to? A social construct to prevent STIs? Again, you can have any opinion you want but I guarantee you that Brandon, and millions of other followers of religion, will not be swayed by this theory. 

This is not "people are offended by everything now" thing. This is actively being rude by belittling beliefs of many people.

Anyway, I'd prefer the whole thing to calm down, so I'll be doing some summoning.
Summon: @Chaos, @WeiryWriter, @Rubix... um, @Kaymyth? This is similar to the "drop everything but Stormlight" thing and this time I'd rather it not to end with somebody banned.

[Djarskublar Envisager]

@Rockobar My question is why you felt the need to post this. I don't really care what you send to Brandon. It made for an interesting read anyway, but I don't think that posting something that I think should have been more private between you and Brandon is fully appropriate. I won't judge for it since that is your prerogative, but that was my first thought on seeing this, since it wasn't just a question you asked that he answered. Beyond that, your language was confrontational and demanding. If I was Brandon, I would just throw your letter in the trash after reading the first couple paragraphs simply because your tone was rude. You are projecting your personal feelings on to Brandon and demanding that he write to conform to your view, rather than allow the artistry you respect by simply pointing out things you think are flawed for him to think about.

On another point, I disagree with many of your premises and points. If it was a choice between my family dying and the rest of humanity dying, or even the number of people in my family plus one, I would choose to lose my family. Storms, I would pull the trigger myself. Those 6 billion people you are willing to kill are no more or less valuable than the people in my family. I will take the choice that results in less loss of life. It is better that I personally suffer the grief than many others grieving over their families that I could have saved. Even though that would certainly be emotionally traumatic for me, the net suffering is lower this way.

On your points about having sex in books, I partially disagree with you. I agree that it shouldn't be avoided entirely, but you don't need anything graphic. Discussion of sex is fine, but showing people having sex is not something that fits Brandon's aesthetic. Children read these books, and adding in erotic scenes really isn't appropriate for that audience. You have also taken your examples pretty selectively. In Mistborn, you criticize Elend and Vin for not having sex that you know of before they are married. Beyond that, in Mistborn there are entire discussions about the nobles raping skaa women, and it is one of the central moral issues in the book. I think that fulfills your requirement.

I completely disagree with pretty much all of your other points entirely. Elantris had many religiously devoted people. Dilaf was extremely zealous, and he didn't come out on top of anything other than the pile of monk bodies. Hrathen held true to his beliefs to the end, and was honestly one of the best villains I have ever read. My only regret with that was that he was unable to express his reasons to Sarene. Also, your near complete dismissal of religion is frankly more a sign of ignorance than sophistication. Even if you think it is only a social construct, it still had many more effects than just controlling STIs. Religions are integral to humanity. Wars are fought over them, science is propelled by them, and statistically speaking, people with religious beliefs are happier. To provide examples, conflicts over Israel are partially over religion, astronomy is what it is today due to studying the stars because of religious belief, and statistics speak for themselves. All of those points don't even mention whether there is any form of deity or not. What your and my religious beliefs are is irrelevant to the discussion.

I think his handling of death has been quality so far. He is highly aware of the difficulties around character death, and has talked about this subject pretty extensively. Part of the reason fewer people die during the body of his books is because most of the important action happens at the end. It isn't that there isn't anything going on before then, but there is less action and more character development and positioning for the climax. If someone needs to die to set that up, Brandon will kill them. If nobody needs to die, then adding in more deaths would only lessen the impact of important deaths. He has expressed concern that his resurrection of certain characters will cheapen death like Marvel has done.

All in all, welcome to the Shard, but keep it casual. Also, I have been ninja'd by Oversleep. I think this thread really should be done now, before we end up in all out flame war.

[Zennix Svrakiss]

Welcome to the Shard! I don't support the harsh responses to this post. I think everyone is entitled to his/her opinions. But I do understand why they reacted the way they did. This post seems kind of rude and intrusive. 

I believe that writers should be able to write whichever way they like. The numerous choices available to the readers is part of fun. I do love some variety in my life. After all, we are not Librarians.  

[Kaymyth Sliver]

Lo, I have been summoned.

I'm not entirely sure that it's appropriate for me to make any sort of official judgments here. I'll leave that for the Admins. So, setting aside my Moderator hat for a moment...

It is OK to have personal opinions about an author's works. It is OK to wish that they would cater more to your tastes.

It is of somewhat questionable taste to post a long, drawn-out diatribe on that author's supposed failings on his official fansite. I'm not going to bother dissecting the merits of the arguments as I see little point.

But I find the fact that this letter was actually sent to Brandon to be staggeringly, mind-bogglingly rude. Seriously. This man spends hundreds upon hundreds of hours pouring time, energy, and care into everything he writes. Writing is work. To actually submit to him a treatise that tears his work into little pieces, showcasing every alleged flaw for your own self-aggrandizement is just beyond the pale. The things you laid out, if actually implemented, would completely change the tone and timbre of his works. If these elements are really that important to you, go write your own stories. (Learn just how much work it is!)

You are not entitled to tailor other people's work to suit your own preferences. The closest anyone gets to come to that is writing fanfic.

[maxal Dawnshard]

3 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

What, is OP not allowed to have an opinion on what would improve Brandon's books in their mind? Or just not allowed to mention it around you guys? Many of their points (religious views of characters, hidden sexuality, and overuse of resurrection) are all things Brandon has engaged with in detail on Reddit when people have posted similar complaints. Nothing here that deserves downvotes.

They're well-considered ideas, backed up with plenty of explanation and comparisons that are designed to give concrete examples. I'll disagree with the fundamentals of the opinions, and honestly I wouldn't enjoy if Brandon followed the advice given. My preferences for discussion range more towards in-universe theories than these sorts of metatextual analyses, so I'm not particularly interested in engaging with the topic at hand. But let's not flame a brand new user for sharing thoughts.

Welcome to the Shard, @Rockobar. Normally, the level of detail you put into your post would get a much better reception around these parts. I guess you've just managed to find a sensitive topic to make an entrance on; by all means, don't let it stop you from visiting other parts of the forum.

I have a non downvote policy. I have made my non downvote policy public on numerous occasions and I am sure I have caused the Mods quite a few headaches about my antics concerning the downvotes and yet I almost nearly did downvote this post.

Why?

Certainly not because he is expressing an unpopular opinion. I have expressed unpopular opinions more often than most regular posters. There is however a way to phrase one's thoughts and when you are purposefully going against the masses, you have to be clever enough to use the right words. It is an intrinsically difficult task to form up a decent criticism of a beloved author in a non-confrontational way, open-minded to discourse. Thus, the problem with this post aren't the thoughts being expressed, it is how they were expressed combined with the sick feeling the OP is shoving down his own opinion as the One Absolute Truth which basically is Mistake Number One of What Not to Write into an Unpopular post.

I am absolutely not surprised by the downvotes, worst I am surprised it hasn't gotten more, yet.

@Rockobar, yes, we could essentially discuss the sexual content within Brandon Sanderson's books, we could discuss as to whether or not Shallan and Jasnah should a homosexual relationship, we could discuss the religious content within Brandon Sanderson's books, we could discuss every one of the points raised into appropriate threads and guess what? We did. We did have those discussions and while we do not all agree with each other, we all agree Brandon Sanderson has the write to write his story how he sees fit. His prerogative as a writer to craft his characters as he feels are required by his story, our prerogative as readers is to decide whether or not his story is one we wish to read. Brandon is a swell guy, if you say you don't like his books because their content is not up to your personal preferences, he would be totally fine with it. Even better, I have seen him NOT recommend his own books onto Reddit to a few readers because, based on their tastes, he didn't feel they would enjoy them.

We can express thoughts as to what we wish to read within future books, we can say we feel this or that would make a very good story arc, we can even be sadden if the author doesn't share our views and/or retain our favorite idea, but we can't barge in there saying it is his duty to write his story as we wish it to be. I understand wanting a story to unfold into a particular way, I do, I really do, nobody understands this better than I, but I fear a line has been crossed here.

Your opinion isn't the only opinion nor is it the only valuable opinion. It is one opinion and we can discuss it, but it doesn't have precedence over other people's opinion and yes, this is hard, at times, to swallow it up. This too, I know all too well.

For my part, I love the fact Brandon is actually writing low sexual content books, I love how he has dared, in the 21st century, to write mature characters whom are waiting before having their first sexual relationship. I love how Adolin is a virgin and somewhat ill-at-ease with the whole intimacy concept despite being in his twenties, loud and naturally bragging. Why do I love it? Because in a world where medias and mass entertainment promote to our kids the idea sexual relationships should happen during the first half of their teen years if they are so much as to claim to normality, I find it refreshing to read characters whom aren't following those unseen rules, whom are showing the young readers it is alright to be 23 years old and not having had an intimate relationship yet. It is all right if you haven't really had any serious relationship by the time you are in your twenties. It is alright if you haven't have sex and guess what? There are a great deal lot of people whom are within the same position. So while yes, Brandon could have written Adolin as a pure Casanova moving half-dress from one room to the next answering to the sole call of his male parts, he would have missed the chance to write a much better character, IMHO. So while yes, Brandon could have written Jasnah and Shallan having torrid sex, but it might have read more like heterosexual male dream fantasy than a real genuine relationship. 

So yes, there are numerous ways Brandon could have written the story differently, when it comes to sex/religion/whatsoever, but in the end what he has to offer does hold itself pretty well.

This being said, I wouldn't fear too much about Brandon reading the letter. He might not answer, but Brandon is a swell guy, he won't be offended. He'd just think perhaps you should not read his books if you find them not to your personal tastes, he might even send you a list of books he feels you would prefer. That's just how swell Brandon is.

Edit: Typos.

Edit 2: I forgot to mention the fact Brandon chose Adolin to be the virgin shy about relationship character is incredibly amazing because he is exactly the kind of character people would take for the exact opposite. Young people can be social, outgoing, friendly. They can date numerous people, but it doesn't mean they have to have sex, right away with everyone. They can even be a bit scared about it, just like Adolin. I feel this message is increasingly important to send in today's world and no it has nothing to do with religion: I am atheist. I just think sex, as a whole, is taken up too much place within nowadays relationships, too much emphasis in put on sex, especially on young people.

Edited March 29, 2017 by maxal

[Farnsworth Seer]

Okay, I'm not going to go into whether you are right or wrong about this, but can I just say that going into a completely Sanderson obsessed sight and insulting him is a pretty bad idea? You remind me of my friend who started stating very conservative viewpoints while on a public bus in San Francisco. We actually had to get off the bus a few stops early because people were glaring at him so angrily. 

[CaptainRyan Worldbringer]

43 minutes ago, Figberts said:

Okay, I'm not going to go into whether you are right or wrong about this, but can I just say that going into a completely Sanderson obsessed sight and insulting him is a pretty bad idea? You remind me of my friend who started stating very conservative viewpoints while on a public bus in San Francisco. We actually had to get off the bus a few stops early because people were glaring at him so angrily.

Personally, this kind of stuff makes me sad. I wish people, whether on a bus in San Francisco or on the 17th Shard, could hear/read something they vehemently, viscerally disagree with but still engage in a kind, respectful manner. (Disclaimer: I have been guilty of reacting emotionally instead of calmly. I think we all have.)