TWD - Chapter 06 - kais 03/27/17 6040 words

[kais]

It's a long one. Sorry! I wasn't sure where to break it. Any and all thoughts appreciated as we move into the meat of the story.

[aeromancer]

Notes: I see you’ve elected to once again start a chapter with bones. I have no objection to such a start, but, ah, this is the second time within six chapters. Also, “alchemist would be around to use my bones to make oil, because otherwise that was a terribly wasteful way to go.” – This is a very odd thought. I suppose it’s to let you know that S wants to be useful as a corpse, or something. Even if S’s bones aren’t make to bone oil, the body will still decompose and serve to fertilize the soil..

-S’s ‘I an Alchemist’ line on page 5 sets up the character very well. I also note that you’re going out of your way to highlight S’s lack of self-confidence.

-Out of idle, and slightly morbid curiosity, how intense are these guild wars?

-First taste of real magic is a sending. There’s not a lot to go on, at all, so I’m going to save all comments. I could make a few stabs at it, but I'd rather not. Kind of odd how S has no knowledge of magic, though.

Edited March 28, 2017 by aeromancer

[kais]

23 hours ago, aeromancer said:

this is the second time within six chapters.

It's also the last, I promise. I just really enjoy it. I may eventually have an editor who cuts it. Who knows?

23 hours ago, aeromancer said:

I also note that you’re going out of your way to highlight S’s lack of self-confidence.

Trying, anyway. This'll need massive clean up in the next round of edits (if I ever finish draft zero), but I'm aiming for someone whose confidence really only comes out with the craft. There has to be a reason S hasn't left home until now, and lack of confidence that stems from several sources seems reasonable. At least for right now. I have however, decided to lower S's age to twenty, so maybe things will ring truer now in terms of ability. 

23 hours ago, aeromancer said:

how intense are these guild wars

I wasn't going to get too in-depth with them, but your question got me thinking last night. I put in a bit into another chapter, for funsies. I think the guild wars will be more book two than this one, so I wasn't going to hit them hard, but a little foreshadowing is always fun!

That didn't answer your question at all, did it? I was thinking of the stealing of apprentices before they're tattooed and duels for the masters where appendages were lost (because most can't do their trade with hands).

23 hours ago, aeromancer said:

There’s not a lot to go on, at all,

I was going to try to ease magic in slowly, because S has no knowledge of it. How do you feel about that? As something else to mull, I have no intention of defining any magic system in these books, because none of my characters will use it (or understand it), outside of understanding the magic inherent in most of alchemy. 

Thank you for reading and for the comments!!

[aeromancer]

3 hours ago, kais said:

I was going to try to ease magic in slowly, because S has no knowledge of it. How do you feel about that? 

Well, at first glance, I find an alchemist who knows nothing about magic to be strange. But I also know you're building S to be a chemist rather than an alchemist, meaning that S would specialize in very specific fields. That kind of fits the 'maven' archetype from Malcolm Gladwell's The Tipping Point, if you're familiar with that. It makes sense from S's point of view to know little of magic, as I assume S knows little outside her few specific fields, but I'm not sure it'd make sense from a readers point of view, as most fantasy readers will dot-connect 'magic' and 'alchemy', there are several books where 'alchemy' is a sub-field within the larger field of magic as a whole. You might want to nail down a line between magic and alchemy really early on.

3 hours ago, kais said:

As something else to mull, I have no intention of defining any magic system in these books, because none of my characters will use it (or understand it), outside of understanding the magic inherent in most of alchemy. 

This is actually something I've debated elsewhere. The general consensus of the discussion were two general rules for this situation. 1) You should have a pretty clear idea of what the limits to magic are, if only to stop you from writing plot holes into later books (cough Time Turners cough). 2) The main character should not have magic but it's fine for supporting characters (i.e. Gandalf, Allanon) who can't be relied upon to consistently help the protagonist.

[kais]

1 hour ago, Ernei said:

I would expect S. to first think about the fur, and then about the bones.

I like that S goes straight to bones. I think it makes it creepy, and thereby also makes S a little creepy. Scientists are always just a shade weird, and not the weird you might have over to dinner because they're interesting. If it comes off strange, then I think it is working!

1 hour ago, Ernei said:

Oh, hell. Are we going to get a romantic two-on-one-horse ride?

LOL. Some of us enjoy romance in our stories. 

1 hour ago, Ernei said:

so well anatomy could be confusing

Good point, and an excellent opportunity to make it even more creepy!

1 hour ago, Ernei said:

Five hours is long for somebody who had never ridden before anyways.

I agree. Debilitatingly long. Hence, the inability to stand.

1 hour ago, Ernei said:

reads a little disjointed.

Agreed. I trimmed it.

2 hours ago, Ernei said:

actually mean that the bundled woman didn't have it?

Edited for clarity

3 hours ago, Ernei said:

and then she repeats the same information, but adding that the woman died.

She's slowly adding information. She was withholding before. I'll try to make that clearer.

3 hours ago, Ernei said:

seems to be a little to far gone

Yeah, this one might be over the top.

3 hours ago, Ernei said:

think about knife specifically

Because S is carrying a foraging knife. I've clarified.

3 hours ago, Ernei said:

It takes too much from the punch.

I'm back and forth on this. I need every instance possible to differentiate S from the alchemy most readers think of, and this is a prime opportunity.

5 hours ago, Ernei said:

didn't react anyhow to it?

Aheh... fixing...

5 hours ago, Ernei said:

maybe S. struggling a little longer.

The trouble I'm running into is that the chapter is already insanely long. I'm not sure if extending this scene would help anything.

5 hours ago, Ernei said:

Was the first part (before the line break) really necessary?

Only an editor can really know, but I like it. It helps set a tone for S and M and allows me to jump right to action on the trail, instead of having them banter for a bit to catch up on things. 

5 hours ago, Ernei said:

I feel like their portrayal is inconsistent.

Quite rightly so. Draft zero issues, I suspect. I hope to clean it up a lot on the next pass, but I need to get the thing finished first. Thank you for the comments, as always!

[Mandamon]

I took the lazy way out this time and did a Word compare to see differences between this and the one I already critiqued. Doesn't look like too much is different, but looks like the spots I noted are reading better.

Like @aeromancer, I'm interested in learning more about the interplay between guilds, and how far they go in fighting each other. Losing appendages seems...extreme. How many years goes into becoming a master or grandmaster? That's  a lot of knowledge and technique to lose over a fight.

[Robinski]

As ever, I am interested to see where the story takes me this week!

• Good first line, draws me in like the first line of the story did.

• “regretted so docilely handing over” – bit of a tongue-twister.

• “The shepherd guild was held by Puget” – or reverse the terms.

• “She handed me the reins to a horse, which who was twice my height.” – surely.

• “It was thick conifer forests through the road and pass” – grammar.

• “Enough to identify our glass grandmaster because of that mole of his on the chin,” – For what little it’s worth, I’ve forgotten this bit.

• “and knocked arrows” – nocked.

• “I’d be relegated to my backside for every minor skirmish” – I know Sor thinks of this in terms of being useful to Mag, but it does tend to run against the thought Sor just had about being a source of death.

• “standing in swirling snow” – I didn’t get a sense of this from previous description. Having said that, I’m really enjoying the action of the encounter, which came on unexpectedly. The revelation of Mother is interesting, as it runs certain significant risks for the story – in particular, Sor losing any agency. Quick!! Back to the action. “It was automatic, to heed her directions” – uh huh.

• “desperate to stay quite” – quiet.

• “It should have been branch with a cluster of needles at one end…” – The missing word confused the whole sentence for me. I think it’s compounded by the use of ‘it’ – which I think would better be replaced with ‘the tattoo’. I’m trying to get rid of these non-specific words myself, as they often add to confusion unless used in close proximity to the subject.

• “I needed to define the boundary between reality and dreams.” – there have been lots of good lines, but this one made me stop to comment. Really nice.

• “to trail a finger along my neck, where my guild mark should have been” – I feel like Mother has her(?) guild mark in a different place from Sor. Sor can see Mother’s mark, so it must be on the front or side of her neck, whereas Sor’s should be on the back of their neck – both Mother’s can’t be there, because Sor can see it. Then this trailing of the finger – that should be on the back of Sor’s neck, but it doesn’t sound that way to me.

• “I grabbed my third pouch and yanked it from my belt. Keeping my arms low, I pulled at the ties, making sure to keep the opening pointed away. There was no wind. This close to the conjuring, it deflected around the both of us. Even a small throw would work. “Get away from me,” I stuttered at the thing as it reached for me. I raised the pouch and tilted, ready to empty the contents.“ – It’s just so horribly, horribly awkward. I thought Sor had little ‘grenades’ (cloth-wrapped parcels) to be thrown intact? Also, I don’t feel like wind ‘deflects’. Worse (for me) ‘small throw’ sounds way off, as a phrase. When describing a throw, you have to either (a) relate it to the distance, or (b) convey strength through description of the scale of the action. I might say ‘short throw’ – but that’s still too long, I think. Maybe ‘gentle throw/toss’, a flick even, because they are so close together. If hope you won’t be offended, but I can’t resist this pun(?) – You ‘throw’ like a girl!! <laughs at own joke>

• “It was real” – ‘It had been real’, surely. Better to convey that it’s past.

• “tried to rake the snow and bits of thorn from my clothes” – ‘brush’, ‘dust’? I don’t feel like raking would have the right effect. Raking is intended more to spread or mix, I think, not remove, unless leaving a finer material behind.

• “They’re all poison, of a kind,” I said, wiping my face with my sleeve again.” – So, there’s no chance any of the dust spilled on Sor’s sleeve, when handling the open pouch. Just a little bit of dust escaping, into an open wound (blister)? Arrgghh. Sor would need to be so careful.

• “They’d gathered the horses into a chain and were mounted, ready to leave” – I feel like the knights would recover the bodies or their fallen comrade-in-arms and tie them to the horses. I can’t see them just leaving the bodies in the forest.

• “It’ll clot.” – Is clot the word? Congeal, heal, scab??

• “She knew the damage those words caused” – I don’t remember Sor being stung when the conjuring said ‘daughter’. I don’t remember a strong reaction.

• “It was just delirium” – This feels like an author’s interjection, like Sor is withholding this for story/plot reasons. What other reason does Sor have to withhold it? Is it the old, everyone will think I’m mad, trope? That feels tired as a rationale to regulate plot progress. Then they’ll have as secret between them that will come to dominate their interactions. I don’t see a reason to avoid openness when they’re on the same quest, essentially.

• “One conjuring versus the intel” – I feel strongly that this is a modern word that makes your story sound like The Bourne Alchemy.

• “as we continued the gradual ??? uphill” – Word missing, methinks.

• “Not all the masters were missing, it seemed. At least one was following us, and was very interested in me” – I don’t get this conclusion from what has passed in this chapter. How does Sor deduce that the master is following? The master could be waiting up ahead.

I just loved this chapter. I had some really nice action, well described, and a very enjoyable / suitably scary supernatural encounter. You sold me nicely on the conjuring being Mother; I was convinced to start with. I felt peril without getting or needing the usual crash-bang-wallop of people hitting and getting hit by swords. Sor was satisfyingly clumsy in the ‘combat’ situation. There were some nice touches of scene/setting description, but I think you could and should go further. Falling snow is just awesome for atmosphere; I think you could dial it up a bit further to greater effect. Maybe mention the muffling effect it was on sound. I always think things sound closer in snow, thick snow anyway.

I felt the central relationship (in the narrative anyway) really settled into place here, in a way that I wasn’t quite feeling it before. That’s okay in that Mag was a new character before, although I've noted that I wasn’t completely sold by her introduction. Still, the easy closeness that Sor and Mag fell into was lovely. Contrary to any impression you might have gained on here, I am in fact an old romantic, and I thought this (re)budding relationship was convincing in a way that I never quite felt with Atal and Em.

For me, this continues to be your best work yet. Keep it coming.

<R>

[kais]

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

So, there’s no chance any of the dust spilled on Sor’s sleeve, when handling the open pouch.

Oh, there is every chance. Wait for it...

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

I feel like the knights would recover the bodies or their fallen comrade-in-arms

You are so right. Argh.

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

Is clot the word?

It is, but I like scab better!

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

I don’t remember a strong reaction.

Err, will go back and fix this. Wait, no, it's there. The first time S reacts quite a bit. The second time no, because S knows it isn't the mother. 

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

I don’t see a reason to avoid openness when they’re on the same quest, essentially.

Fair enough. It's a good spot to plot seed, anyway. 

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

The Bourne Alchemy.

OMG THAT IS THE NEW TITLE! Hands down, best title ever.

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

The master could be waiting up ahead.

I'll just change it to 'nearby' and that should fix things.

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

but I think you could and should go further.

I'm trying to, in places. Scenery setups should get longer as you progress through, as I become more comfortable writing them. I'll go back and edit more into this space in draft one. Have to finish this draft first!

9 hours ago, Robinski said:

and I thought this (re)budding relationship was convincing in a way that I never quite felt with Atal and Em.

Aww, yay! These two have a rocky road ahead, so its good that there is a solid framework for their relationship.

I'm so glad you liked the chapter! Thank you for the comments!