On the Origin of Highstorms

[Epicrandom]

Was browsing reddit when I saw a thread about the effect on Earth if the original supercontinent had never broken up.  I know WoB has confirmed that the Stormlight Archive is set on a supercontinent, and one post stuck out to me.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1wntee/if_the_continents_never_left_pangea/cf3rt6r

 

Apparently it is theorized that regular massive hurricanes would be one of the results.  Don't know if Brandon knew and planned for that to be the case, but either way it's worked out well for him.

[Everstorm]

This is a whole new level of worldbuilding! What a writer! Forum mods, can we have this smiley please, for moments like these?

[DocHoliday]

I am in awe that something like this has never occurred to me. Thank you for posting this wonderful world building extrapolation.

 

It makes me wonder however whether the 2 are actually related.

I live in Florida, so I've a little more information than most without having to dig.

 

Hurricanes are well known to form in waters that are much warmer than average. The southern coast of Roshar is well known to have an enormous amount of ice, suggesting the water is in the area of 32° F give or take a degree or two.

 

This is far from ideal conditions for Storms to be forming in. Since we know the Highstorms form in the south this lends a heavy amount evidence that the super continent is not responsible for these events. 

 

Now if the Origin were in the North, this would lend a hefty dude of credibility that the Storms are doing around for a bit. But I don't think that's the case.

[Aspren]

DocHoliday, on Earth tropical storms form and move northwest in the northern hemisphere because of the Coriolis effect. If Roshar were in the Southern hemisphere (as is implied by southern Roshar being colder than northern Roshar) Then the storms would form to the northeast and travel southwest. 

 

In the case of having a supercontinent like Roshar and having the rest of the world be ocean, the storms might not veer off to the north or south, but rather just keep on moving west, assuming that it travelled along the equator.

[Delightful]

Since we know the Highstorms form in the south this lends a heavy amount evidence that the super continent is not responsible for these events. 

 

Now if the Origin were in the North, this would lend a hefty dude of credibility that the Storms are doing around for a bit. But I don't think that's the case.

Is the Origin of Storms not in the East? I'm pretty sure the map has North/South/Stormward/Leeward as directions.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Delightful

[Aether]

Is the Origin of Storms not in the East? I'm pretty sure the map has North/South/Stormward/Leeward as directions.

They use both West/East and Leeward/Stormward. The full map of Roshar use the latter, but they are the same.

[Delightful]

They use both West/East and Leeward/Stormward. The full map of Roshar use the latter, but they are the same.

Actually, I was attempting to correct

 

 

Since we know the Highstorms form in the south

 

But thanks for the clarification.

[Aether]

Actually, I was attempting to correct

 

But thanks for the clarification.

Pardon.

[DocHoliday]

DocHoliday, on Earth tropical storms form and move northwest in the northern hemisphere because of the Coriolis effect. If Roshar were in the Southern hemisphere (as is implied by southern Roshar being colder than northern Roshar) Then the storms would form to the northeast and travel southwest. 

 

In the case of having a supercontinent like Roshar and having the rest of the world be ocean, the storms might not veer off to the north or south, but rather just keep on moving west, assuming that it travelled along the equator.

 

 

Is the Origin of Storms not in the East? I'm pretty sure the map has North/South/Stormward/Leeward as directions.

You are both indeed correct, if the Highstorms followed this model. They do not.

 

The Origin is actually to the Southeast of mainland Roshar Delightful. I was pointing out that the Origin is at a point which is further South than continental Roshar.

 

Although the Storms move on a generally Westerly manner, judging from Kaladin's vision, they are not perfectly East to West in movement.

[Delightful]

Pardon.

No problem.

You are both indeed correct, if the Highstorms followed this model. They do not.

 

The Origin is actually to the Southeast of mainland Roshar Delightful. I was pointing out that the Origin is at a point which is further South than continental Roshar.

How do you know this?

[DocHoliday]

The map of Roshar in WoK indicates the Origin to be almost exactly Southeast with an arrow pointing towards it.

Although the compass does say Stormward, with the knowledge that North is at the top of the map we can surmise the other cardinal directions.

 

 

How do you know this?

Or was this in reference to the Storms? As Aspren pointed out, the directions of storms on Earth is influenced by Coriolis effect.

I was pointing out that Highstorms don't form in the same manner as hurricanes or some such. 

They don't form under the same conditions or move in the same manner, so I felt justified in my statement.

 

Speaking of the Coriolis effect, I was toying with an idea. 

We know Earth has a center a axis of rotation that is tilted 23°.  Which remains forever pointed in one direction in space. This is responsible for our seasons.

 

Roshar seasons are highly variable, irregular, and do not fall in an kind of sequential order. 

If we were to take a model of Earth's rotation and orbit, how would reproduce Roshar's?

 

The reason I ask is because the Sun's uneven heating of Earth's surface mass difuses energy unevenly, producing some areas where heat is much more concentrated. 

But that got me thinking, what if the planet is rotating unevenly? Taking Earth as an example: what if we took a toothpick and stick it through the planet 23° to the left of Magnetic North, and set it spinning. We would have the planet orbiting, rotating around the poles, and spinning around a 3rd point. 

 

What sort of effects would we see on Storm movement, and season change under this model?

[WeiryWriter]

The map of Roshar in WoK indicates the Origin to be almost exactly Southeast with an arrow pointing towards it.

Although the compass does say Stormward, with the knowledge that North is at the top of the map we can surmise the other cardinal directions.

 

 

Or was this in reference to the Storms? As Aspren pointed out, the directions of storms on Earth is influenced by Coriolis effect.

I was pointing out that Highstorms don't form in the same manner as hurricanes or some such. 

They don't form under the same conditions or move in the same manner, so I felt justified in my statement.

 

Speaking of the Coriolis effect, I was toying with an idea. 

We know Earth has a center a axis of rotation that is tilted 23°.  Which remains forever pointed in one direction in space. This is responsible for our seasons.

 

Roshar seasons are highly variable, irregular, and do not fall in an kind of sequential order. 

If we were to take a model of Earth's rotation and orbit, how would reproduce Roshar's?

 

The reason I ask is because the Sun's uneven heating of Earth's surface mass difuses energy unevenly, producing some areas where heat is much more concentrated. 

But that got me thinking, what if the planet is rotating unevenly? Taking Earth as an example: what if we took a toothpick and stick it through the planet 23° to the left of Magnetic North, and set it spinning. We would have the planet orbiting, rotating around the poles, and spinning around a 3rd point. 

 

What sort of effects would we see on Storm movement, and season change under this model?

 

1) The Earth's axis doesn't always point to the same point in space.  It undergoes a 20,000 year or so precessional cycle (that's what the Mayan calender is based on).  If I remember correctly the pole shifts from Polaris to Vega (I'm not sure on the second one).

 

2) Roshar doesn't have an axial tilt and its season's are based on storm activity.

[Isomere]

From in book quotes the storms are strongest on the east coast and the stormfront moves southwest as it grows weaker. I suspect the origin is in the northeast, corresponding to the location of the Jes glyph on the knights radiant chart. 

[Elbereth]

1) The Earth's axis doesn't always point to the same point in space. It undergoes a 20,000 year or so precessional cycle (that's what the Mayan calender is based on). If I remember correctly the pole shifts from Polaris to Vega (I'm not sure on the second one).

2) Roshar doesn't have an axial tilt and its season's are based on storm activity.

You are correct. It is Vega. That shift is about 14,000 years, though, if I remember correctly.

EDIT: I'm sorry. Apparently the cycle is more like 25,770 years. It's kind of complicated, though.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Limelleth

[DocHoliday]

Interesting about Vega. New information for me.

 

 

From in book quotes the storms are strongest on the east coast and the stormfront moves southwest as it grows weaker. I suspect the origin is in the northeast, corresponding to the location of the Jes glyph on the knights radiant chart. 

The movement of the Storm was something I . Was trying to comprehend. From. Kaladin's storm vision, the Highstorm seems to move erratically, but it appeared that he hit the Shattered Plains first. I don't think the Storms move from die East or Northeast, to West by Southwest for this reason.

[Delightful]

Multiple times in Dalinars chapters, stormward is referred to as 'East' specifically, without N/S attached. That could be an in-world simplification, possibly.