Orlok Tsubodai

Long Game (3)2: Pulling on Strings

963 posts in this topic

58 minutes ago, Hemalurgic_Headshot said:

Wow. Within eight hours or so, we've already gotten to four pages. So the main suspicions, it seems, are Wilson(though that seems to have defused some) and Mark. I distrust Wilson from experience, which comprises AG3, in which Wilson was an Elim and I had no idea. So don't consider that of any worth. There are many new individuals in this game, so I have no idea how they play, etc. we still have at least 24 hours left, so how about we get to eight pages? And I'll vote sometime between then.


Quinn turned to the sound of footsteps approaching. It was a man, who was staring at him with as much intensity as a fire.

Oh no...

Quinn opened his mouth to greet the man, but he was cut off with a stunning slap across his face. His mouth hung open, dazed.

Ooh, that must have hurt.

What was that for? 'Oh, it's a rather innocent looking accountant, I'll go slap him!' Rusts, man!

He must have had a reason.

Quinn rubbed his cheek, which was a violent red. He looked up at the man, who looked down at him, arms folded. 

Show him! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

Shush! That's the worst possible response!

Quinn stood, still rubbing his cheek, and faced the man. At full height, Quinn was just barely an inch taller than the man. He reached towards him.

"I'll take that as a greeting," he said as he shook the man's hand.

Way to be boring, Quinn.

Rieyun was extremely nonplussed.

This man was mean and impolite to Rhea not that long ago, and here he is just shaking my hand. Should I ask him about- Before Ry could form a question, a random person suddenly slapped him.

The man appeared to be extremely pleased with himself, which was rather odd, considering that pleasure and mirth are not the emotions generally associated with a slap to the face. So Ry did the first thing that came to his mind.

He knocked the man out.

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12 minutes ago, randuir said:

If they play perfectly, you're right. However, veryone slips up at one point or another, especially once an elim team has been formed.

Also don't underestimate the power of some people's guts. Lopen managed to get a correct gut read on almost the entire elim team in around cycle 3 in LG30. 

Are you sure that that was Lopen's gut? Cause I remember only part where his gut screams "Kill Arinian! Burn him!" and something like that :P

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3 minutes ago, Arinian said:

Are you sure that that was Lopen's gut? Cause I remember only part where his gut screams "Kill Arinian! Burn him!" and something like that :P

If you list 5 or 6 people in a 22 player game, and half of them are elims, I consider it a correct gut read. That he then went after one of the innocents on the list was just (un)fortunate :P.

Edited by randuir
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Winkleton woke up with another sore. “OW.” he said. Maybe that wasn’t a good idea. He got up and rubbed his head. He went back to his room and went to bed.

 

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9 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

 

I would advocate that a Coinshot finish the job, and if they didn't, I would vote on the player again as well, unless I had a reason to believe they were innocent or had sufficient evidence of another player being an eliminator. I would say that Lopen would very likely agree with that, too. Regarding scanning, there's no guarantee that there's a Seeker in this game, let alone a village one. Personally I would rather depend on the game mechanics I do know are available (the lynch) before I sit around and wait for a role that might not exist to make a move. By making sure to finish off any Thugs that survive the lynch, we effectively strip the Inquisitor of claiming Thug as a safety net.

You're right. I just can't stand it when players survive the lynch. <_< See below.

2 hours ago, Arinian said:

Are you sure that that was Lopen's gut? Cause I remember only part where his gut screams "Kill Arinian! Burn him!" and something like that :P

An accurate representation of my feelings. >>

I can understand not having a lynch this Cycle. I prefer it when games start fast though, since I think it's best to get everyone involved as early as possible. So it's not just about information, but about setting a good tempo for the game. Meta said something like this on page one: "we can't just sit back and bide our time." And he ran LG2, so I think he should have a pretty good feel for what we need to do. That doesn't mean a lynch on Day 1 is absolutely necessary(I don't think it is just to make myself clear), I'm just trying to warn against a passive attitude.

Could someone explain what "Uber" powers are? I was already planning on doing a much more thorough read through of the rules and asking the GM's questions, but I'm not familiar with that term, so others might not be either(I'm totally not asking because I'm lazy or anything :ph34r:).

@Drake Marshall, just in case you didn't see, I put my vote on you in my previous post and asked you some generic questions. :P I noticed you were online a little while ago, but you didn't respond.

Praise the Ja.

Edited by TheMightyLopen
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19 minutes ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Could someone explain what "Uber" powers are? I was already planning on doing a much more thorough read through of the rules and asking the GM's questions, but I'm not familiar with that term, so others might not be either(I'm totally not asking because I'm lazy or anything :ph34r:).

@Drake Marshall, just in case you didn't see, I put my vote on you in my previous post and asked you some generic questions. :P I noticed you were online a little while ago, but you didn't respond.

Praise the Ja.

^^

I was able to read between the lines of Stink for most of the roles, but just on a cursory reread of the thread, I've seen quite a few people refer to Uber powers with no explanation or reference to them in the rules. GM Clarification? @OrlokTsubodai @STINK

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@Kipper @TheMightyLopen While the rules make no mention of what special powers the Inquisitor gets, past games suggest that they often take improved forms of the Misting powers.  For instance, the improved Tin power lets the Inquisitor see PMs, and the improved Copper power lets him appear to Seekers as a regular villager (rather than just being undetectable like normal Smokers).

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The references to Uber metals are from the LG2 rules:

On 1/24/2014 at 4:44 PM, Metacognition said:

INQUISITOR: Somehow, you've managed to hide amongst the crew. You must have a very good (and very large) pair of sunglasses.

Like the Mistborn, there's only one of you, but whenever a Misting dies, you can convert a different player to your side with the role of the dead Misting. You can only do this with the freshly dead though, so the conversion must happen during the very next night turn. To aide you in quest, Ruin has granted you [X] number of special abilities. The number of these abilities will depend on how many players are in the game.

To convert another player, you need a dead Misting and one of your Ruin granted abilities. Your target will have a 50% chance to gain the powers of the dead Misting and your Ruin granted power will be used up. The sacrificed power will then be revealed to everyone. If you give up your final Ruin power, you will die. You cannot convert the Mistborn.

The rules only refer to them as special abilities, but Meta called them Uber metals. Like thus in the master spreadsheet:

uber metals.PNG

So UberBronze, UberCopper, UberSteel, UberPewter, and UberTin.

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Huh. Okay. Do we know what each of the Uber powers do though?

Praise the Ja.

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Oh, ising the making of much more sense. When I wasing the reading of LG2, wasing the assuming that a Ruin-granted power wasing the meaning of the power to convert. And then people suddenly ising the referring to UberMetals and I'm ising the being of "Ising the having of the Inquisitor ultimate metals? Huh?" But now ising the knowing that Ruin powers ising the granting of special abilities that ising the expending when they are used to convert.

Ising the being of enough to get that vote off of me?

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7 minutes ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Huh. Okay. Do we know what each of the Uber powers do though?

Praise the Ja.

We know what the old ones did. (Ubersteel: Kill. Interesting in that this one was not actually an upgrade from normal steel, and the Inquisitor's only method of killing, as they did not have access to the Spiked kill, IIRC. Ubertin: Read any/all PMs. Ubercopper: Scan as regular villager. Uberpewter: +2 lives. Uberbronze: Seek unhindered by regular copper.) Who knows what Orlok and Stink have cooked up for us, though.

 

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5 hours ago, OmeGaster said:

I GO TO SLEEP AND NOW I HAVE 12 NOTIFICATIONS AND A POKE-VOTE.

Okay, now that I got that out of the way:

@Arraenae, I personally think that a poke-vote is a good way to start a conversation, but I do agree with the notion that it was a bit early for that. I also find it a bit strange that you said you picked my vote randomly, and yet I happened to be one of two characters that greeted Rhea pre-game. (Suspicious Face, Suspicious Face)

To be honest, I hadn't read the signups thread for a few days before posting in this one. I didn't know your character interacted with mine until after I poke-voted you. Thanks for responding. :)OmeGaster

@randuir, I looked back at C2 of LG30 and can't see where I berated Drake for poke voting on someone. The closest thing that I can think of was C5, where I made a comment about not wanting to take time to rethink my suspicions of Arinian and Drake said that he found that suspicious. I snapped at him a bit because I had said I wanted time to think instead of mindlessly tunneling. Here's a link to where it started.

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Rieyun was attempting, and failing to completely process what had just happened. The strange man was obviously delirious after Ry hit him in the head, walking to the other side of the room and collapsing. Ry hoped he hadn't hit him in the head too hard.

Ry turned to the man who had just recently shaken his hand. "I do not think we should speak of this moment ever again," Ry said, "I hope you can forgive me for the injury I imposed upon you, that man thankfully slapped some sense into me. I'm Rieyun, but please, call me Ry."

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10 minutes ago, OmeGaster said:

Rieyun was attempting, and failing to completely process what had just happened. The strange man was obviously delirious after Ry hit him in the head, walking to the other side of the room and collapsing. Ry hoped he hadn't hit him in the head too hard.

Ry turned to the man who had just recently shaken his hand. "I do not think we should speak of this moment ever again," Ry said, "I hope you can forgive me for the injury I imposed upon you, that man thankfully slapped some sense into me. I'm Rieyun, but please, call me Ry."

Quinn nodded. "All is forgiven, don't worry. It is a pleasure to meet you, Ry," he said. "My name is Quinn."

I hope we will work more together, Ry.

Well, at least there were some blows passed around. I like men with your type of reactions, Ry.

Hmmm. Perhaps if we could speak to Ry instead...

It would be more interesting than with Mr. Gentleman Quinn here.

Ah, but it would be impossible without killing Quinn. We have already attached ourselves too firmly to him.


@Arraenae, would Rhea like to remedy Quinn's previous encounter?

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I clipped many of the following quotes so i could just respond to what's relevant.

11 hours ago, Kipper said:
 
 
 
 

Also, for all of those who idolize discussion, and say things like "But we gain so much useful DISCUSSION from poke votes and lynches,"......no we don't. Not on Cycle 1. We gain discussion, but not useful discussion. I'd like someone to show me, even hypothetically, one "useful" piece of discussion that you'd gain from a D1 lynch. There's one evil person in the game right now, and the idea that that person will say anything majorly alignment-indicative in the first cycle is ludicrous.

TL;DR Discussion itself is not the be-all, end-all.

I disagree with this a lot, but really I think that comes down to you considering what's useful for you. as opposed to what's useful for other players. Let me refer you to LG31 in which I caught two eliminators within the first day turn. Based on thread discussion alone, I became certain that Ecth was an eliminator and was suspicious of Joe due to analysis and tone alone and thus put them both at the top of my kill list (just alt+f "I am suspicious of Ecth" to see why). Does this happen every game? No. But I just gave you one example and I'm certain I can come up with more (the first day of LG15b when we nearly lynched Bridge Boy before Wilson went out of her way to save him, which inevitably cost them both of their lives, for another example). Your point about there only being one evil person in this game right now is valid. It renders those specific scenarios impossible. However there are plenty of other things to look out for, and without a lack of significant discussion before anyone is converted, we will have much fewer examples of player's talking to compare and contrast with future posts. I have more to say on this, but it'll connect with other posts I'm quoting, so I'll go more in depth on that in a moment.

10 hours ago, little wilson said:
 
 
 

As for discussion if we decide not to lynch: there's plenty to discuss and to try to minimize that is ridiculous. We can discuss role and actions. We can discuss potential Uber-metals. We can discuss roleclaims. We can discuss things players have said thus far. Or, better yet, we can try to engage those who haven't posted yet and draw them into the game. There are many things we can discuss, and it's not my job to figure that out for you. But here's a question for everyone who thinks we should lynch D1: With only 1 eliminator in the game right now, what information do you expect to gain in the lynch discussion? In a normal elimination game, where there are multiple starting eliminators, you can potentially start tying players to one another based on how they defend each other, assuming you're paying attention and taking notes and willing to look back on those notes and tie things together (most people say there's information in a D1 lynch, but they rarely, if ever, go back and find it to use it). Day 1 lynches in standard games are good, particularly for the players who analyze and take notes. But that's not something that's going to happen on this Day 1 because even if the Inquisitor defends anyone, it's not a legitimate tie because that person isn't a teammate. The Inquisitor has no teammates right now, and they're unlikely to give away their alignment if they are talking a lot and taking stances. Therefore, we net practically zero in terms of useful information, and we kill one of our own. Nice job? Oh, but if we don't lynch, we'll start D2 in the same place, but with one player dead. Yes. And guess what happens if we do lynch? We'll still start D2 with practically no info, but this time, we'll either be two villagers down, or one villager and a convert. That's even worse.

Please explain to me why a D1 lynch in this game is absolutely critical.

No one was trying to minimize that. At least I know I wasn't, and that I don't think anyone else was. I just asked you what you would rather us talk about, because if I say and do everything than this game becomes pointless for the other players. I ask questions that I could easily answer myself because it's important for repertoires to be established and that everyone comes out of their comfort zone at least a little so people can get accurate reads on each other. It's almost an inverted mindset to what you had when you said "it's not my job to figure that out for you." I'm of the opinion that it's everyones job to figure those things out together. The most dangerous thing the village can ever do is sit back and not act. 

Why is a D1 lynch this game absolutely critical? Well, I don't think anyone has said it was critical, but Arinian said perfectly why I think it's important, so I'll quote him and expand on it.

8 hours ago, Arinian said:
 
 
 
 

1) I don't agree with Wilson. If we won't have lynch on D1 it's truly changes nothing... with that logic we just can sit and do nothing till inquisitor will hit misting on his own. Or I misunderstand something? Chances to hit misting with lynch not gonna go lower on D2 lynch nor on D3 lynch... so why no lynch on this cycle? And without lynches discussion not gonna go on higher level then it right now. No lynch just slows this game.

This. We took why lynching the Inquisitor Day 1 to it's logical end and that had 3.3% chance of happening. How about we do the same thing for if we don't lynch anyone today? So, N1 begins and no one is dead. The Inquisitor has no choice but to use their kill, which could land on a regular or a misting. Either way. D2 begins and no one is converted, meaning there's only the Inquisitor. Do we refuse to use the lynch again? The odds are no better, and depending on perspective, they're even worse as both the mistings and the Inquisitor have less cover. If the Inquisitor was unlucky and hit a regular N1 and we refuse to lynch D2, then he/she still can't convert anyone, and when D3 begins we're in the exact same situation. It's inevitable that the Inquisitor kills a Misting himself and converts another. so what does delaying it really accomplish? We have the potential for trust groups to form, but there's no guarantee of a village Seeker this game, and there's plenty of opportunity for one of those trusted players to get compromised in the future and thus get the Seeker killed anyway, so I'm personally not a fan of waiting around for things to happen. It's the difference between being proactive versus reactive, and I believe wholeheartedly that the former beats the latter in nine scenarios out of ten.

4 hours ago, TheMightyLopen said:
 
 
 
 

I can understand not having a lynch this Cycle. I prefer it when games start fast though, since I think it's best to get everyone involved as early as possible. So it's not just about information, but about setting a good tempo for the game. Meta said something like this on page one: "we can't just sit back and bide our time." And he ran LG2, so I think he should have a pretty good feel for what we need to do. That doesn't mean a lynch on Day 1 is absolutely necessary(I don't think it is just to make myself clear), I'm just trying to warn against a passive attitude.

This is it, exactly. It's about momentum. I've seen too many games suffer from passivity and the village lose as a result. If I can help it, I'll argue that we not let that happen, here.

10 hours ago, Herowannabe said:
 
 
 

Re: day 1 lynches:

i don't have a lot of time to post right now, but for what it's worth I agree with Wilson. While it may be true that there is some information to be gained from a day 1 lynch, in this particular game it would help the inquisitor more than it would help the village. 

And by waiting until day 2 (or later) to lynch, we DO gain information. We find out who the inquisitor attacks and can start to make some guesses as to why the inquisitor might target that person and narrow down who the inquisitor might be. 

On the surface, I agree. A Day 1 lynch this game helps the Inquisitor more than it does the village. But as I've said above, in the long term scheme of things, I believe having no lynch discussion today will hurt the village more than it will help. And when it comes to reading into early kills made by eliminators, I don't believe that it's as informative as you think. Most kills this early in the game are fear kills, or kills that are intended to give the village the least amount of information. And besides. Regardless of if we do lynch someone or not, the Inquisitor is going to kill someone, anyway. It's not really a matter of no lynch giving us no information, but that we'll have less information to work with when it will matter the most.

Edited by Amanuensis
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Ugh, I have to start by apologizing for not really reading up on the LG2 rules, or I would have understood the Inquisitor and the conversions.  Even after it was initially said by several other players, it took a while to sink into my thick skull, so I've only now really fully understood the concept.

With that, since there is only 1 Elim right now, I am more inclined to agree on not having a D1 lynch, especially since we also know that there won't be an Elim team putting forward two votes to just force a lynch to happen. Aman just ninja'd me, though, and I also agree that the situation isn't really going to change.  There. has been a ton of discussion, however, so I don't think we're going to lose anything this cycle if we don't have an actual Lynch.  I will absolutely make sure to place a vote next cycle, however, and would be vehemently opposed to not lynching someone then at the latest, since that would put us at a significant disadvantage in information, plus it just sets a bad precedent of there being little threat to anyone's life, at least from the town.  I'll retract my vote on Elenion at the moment, though I maintain my suspicion of him.

@Dalinar Kholin, @DroughtBringer, @Ecthelion III, and @Iamspartacus, you haven't posted since the game began. Are you all going to be able to participate?  If so, what are your thoughts on the question of the lynch, and the two role-claiming recommendations (Aman said we shouldn't reveal roles at all, a smart choice in most cases and especially in a conversion game, while Mark suggested Thugs should claim to try to draw out the Inquisitor).

@Figberts and @Sart, you've really only posted RP (Sart voted on himself, but I don't count that in this case, especially considering the nature of the vote), which is a really convenient way to hide as an Elim sometimes. Can you please share some thoughts on the discussion as well? 

@Mark IV, others have expressed this as well, but I find myself suspicious of a couple things.  First, your comment about the number of Elims, though your explanation was fairly satisfactory.  In fact, you could be wrong, so that isn't why I'm still suspicious, but it's what made me initially look at you.  Then, I looked at your idea of having Thugs claim, and then using any subsequent failed lynches to identify the Inquisitor.  When I played a Thug before, I realized that I could end up clearing myself by being attacked by the Elims, but surviving (which is indeed exactly what happened, though I still had people suspicious of me), but if I'd claimed, they would have either arranged a situation where they could double-tap me, or would simply leave me alone, and I wouldn't be able to draw out any information.  Claiming a role like the Thug is almost as bad as claiming a protect role or Seeker. The seeker should never claim unless they think they've identified close to or the entire Elim team (which can change in this game, so especially risky), though they should use their knowledge of people's alignments to guide discussion toward lynching them, or maybe ask a Coinshot to take someone out, if they think they can trust that Coinshot.

In fact, since I'm still waffling on the idea of a D1 lynch this game, despite the low odds of hitting the Inquisitor, at this point I am going to place my vote on Mark. What you've been suggesting is too risky, and seems like a good way to draw out mistings that could hurt the Elims plans, so they can be safely eliminated or converted.

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No problem Aman.

Amnar is going to sit back and read the 5 pages before commenting. He is the Watcher after all.

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So, I've got a bit of a gut read on Aonar. I'm also slightly delirious. I will reread this monster of a thread tomorrow.

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Amnar the Watcher was not invited. Of course, that wasn't to say he didn't go anyway.

For a long stretch of time, he followed from a distance, tracking the movements of the figures in the night. They all seemed to be going toward one particular location, though Amnar couldn't pinpoint it exactly. He followed one such figure for some time--whether is was a few minutes or a few hours, he didn't know. He was merely a shadow, content in an ambient state.

He suddenly froze as another man, this one in a silver-streaked cloak, darted from an alley and smashed the first figure on the head with a dueling cane. The figure crumpled, and satisfied with his work, the assailant picked up the unconscious body and hauled it away. Amnar watched all this from afar. Slowly, carefully, he slunk out from his hiding place and followed the newcomer. These were dangerous men, and it never hurt to be too cautious.

He didn't get far before coming aware of movement behind him. Turning around, he saw another silver-cloak attempting to sneak up behind him.

Fools. This was his domain.

He dropped that one with a dagger, but the dying man's scream alerted his fellow silver-cloak, who attempted to run. Another dagger felled that one noiselessly.

Upon closer inspection of the bodies, the silver-cloaks were each carrying identical bags. He unbuttoned one and found that they were filled with stacks of papers. He took the top one off the stack and read:

Dear Astrid,

You may have disliked the kidnapping that you have no doubt experienced, but we expect you to easily overcome such an issue. We hope you enjoy the experience that is being provided to you by the Lord Tekiel

Amnar stopped reading after that. He knew all he needed to know now. "The Lord Tekiel."

Before leaving, he dragged the unconscious figure--Astrid, it would appear--into the safety of a darkened building, then fused himself back into the shadows and vanished.

-

The silver-cloaks came back for Astrid. She was still unconscious when the others saw her (nobody knew if she was even still alive) but one of the others found a small slip of paper when rifling through her pockets:

Keep a careful eye on he who follows [MARK IV]. He is plagued with darkness, or else overcome by it.

Have patience. Stay vigilant. I have been waylaid by dawn's coming; let yourselves not be waylaid by the dusk.

AMNAR THE WATCHER

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If ising the being of the GM, GM!Len would hasing the making of the Inquisitor someone who is not liable to be ising of the lynching early. GM!Len would have hasing the making of the Inquisitor someone who hasing experience with conversion mechanics and hasing the ability to lurk without looking out of character.

 

Ising the hasing of awakened, finally. Ising the where of the ising of this place? Ising the saying of the other people here of Keep Tekiel, but ising the hasing of cynicism and the not hasing of believing in everything. Ising the ising of an office adjoining this room. Ising the hasing of any important documents? Hmmm... shipping manifests... servant records... house ledgers! Ising the ising of books upon books of financial records of House Tekiel. Ising the might of taking a while...

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14 minutes ago, Elenion said:

If ising the being of the GM, GM!Len would hasing the making of the Inquisitor someone who is not liable to be ising of the lynching early. GM!Len would have hasing the making of the Inquisitor someone who hasing experience with conversion mechanics and hasing the ability to lurk without looking out of character.

I know I haven't GMed yet, but it seems to me that I might choose a player like Mark, who did well in LG28 and only got taken out by the Elims after a while, would be a good player who wouldn't be quickly suspected and could pull it off, while not just giving all the fun to someone who had been around for a ton of games.

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13 hours ago, Arinian said:

1) I don't agree with Wilson. If we won't have lynch on D1 it's truly changes nothing... with that logic we just can sit and do nothing till inquisitor will hit misting on his own. Or I misunderstand something? Chances to hit misting with lynch not gonna go lower on D2 lynch nor on D3 lynch... so why no lynch on this cycle? And without lynches discussion not gonna go on higher level then it right now. No lynch just slows this game.

2)Some people pointed on Rae as suspicious so I think she is villager, surely :P (I'm just want to say that she acts like village!Rae)

3)Wilson. For me looks like even she don't believe in what she says about no lynch on D1. But that just what my gut says to me.

4)Mark.

  1. I don't know why but  part about "the max would be 5 elims, isn't it?" made me suspicious . Sounds like you already knew answer...
  2. I don't know why we even should talk about that, cause each person will act not like other and all this discussion about how active elims would be gives us nothing.
  3. That kills all meaning of thug role. Elims will just ignore all thugs. As people already said it gives even more information for inquisitor so he can choose more wisely whom to kill or convert, so this claim only hurts village.
  4. Only reason for inquisitor to claim is if he will be under hard suspicion and will have high chance to be lynched.
  5. And you so sure that after this claim we immediately will lynch inquisitor? Pff... I doubt in it.
  6. I will put my vote on Mark for now. His advice absolutely unhelpful, I see some logic in Wilson's advice but thing that Mark said it's absolutely not wise to do.

That's all for now, maybe will add something later.

@Arinian

(I've edited in the numbering of the points against me)

I wholeheartedly agree with the point about D1 lynches (in bold), and in fact, I wanted to make this same point about 12 hours ago, but alas, I had to sleep. Aman puts it succinctly later on. 

  1. Well, yes, I did already know the answer. Sort of. Though I'm not going to quote them here, the rules from.... wait. I've already explained this. Let me copy and paste my answer.  I said:
    "In the rules (explicitly said in the LG2 rules, and implied in the LG32 rules), it says that the inquisitor dies if they give away all spikes. After going through the LG2 Master doc, I found there were only 5 powers (I may be mistaken on that. but, I think it was around 5. Someone please check when you can. I'm too lazy to do that. :P). So, essentially, each time the inquisitor gives away a spike, they lose a power. If they land up with no spikes, they die. Which means the maximum number of eliminators at any point in time should be 5, shouldn't it?"
     
  2. We aren't discussing what the elim will act like based on the player them self. What we were discussing was what would be wise for the elim to do. By no means do I say that the elim will act exactly as I've said, or exactly as anyone has said. 
    Another thing to note is that I wasn't the one who started the discussion on the topic of Elim activity. Aman asked a question to Ecth (one of the people who had not posted) to get them to participate in discussion. So, I'm not the one who started the discussion, and I don't think aman is suspicious for starting it either. 

     
  3. I agree that this is one of the drawbacks of the plan. 
     
  4. Or they might just claim because they're planning for the future. I mean, I can't predict whether they'll do it or not. I can only lay out the various things they could do. I am by no means saying that that is definitely what they'll do. 
     
  5. so, you're saying that if we do indeed have a chance to lynch the inquisitor, we wouldn't do so? That sounds quite eliminatory to me. However, I think I'm misreading your words. So, if you could phrase this again, I'll be glad to reply. (Note that Aman and lopen have already said they will be ready to lynch such a person a second time)
     
  6. About my advice being unhelpful, sure, I didn't mean for it to be accepted 100%. However, when I had posted my plan, there were no other plans on the table. So, rather than just sitting around and waiting for one to come up, I posted my own plan. (You can thank Joe and Aman for motivating me to do so (they didn't motivate me directly, but rather through general advice))

 

4 hours ago, Jondesu said:

Ugh, I have to start by apologizing for not really reading up on the LG2 rules, or I would have understood the Inquisitor and the conversions.  Even after it was initially said by several other players, it took a while to sink into my thick skull, so I've only now really fully understood the concept.

With that, since there is only 1 Elim right now, I am more inclined to agree on not having a D1 lynch, especially since we also know that there won't be an Elim team putting forward two votes to just force a lynch to happen. Aman just ninja'd me, though, and I also agree that the situation isn't really going to change.  There. has been a ton of discussion, however, so I don't think we're going to lose anything this cycle if we don't have an actual Lynch.  I will absolutely make sure to place a vote next cycle, however, and would be vehemently opposed to not lynching someone then at the latest, since that would put us at a significant disadvantage in information, plus it just sets a bad precedent of there being little threat to anyone's life, at least from the town.  I'll retract my vote on Elenion at the moment, though I maintain my suspicion of him.

@Dalinar Kholin, @DroughtBringer, @Ecthelion III, and @Iamspartacus, you haven't posted since the game began. Are you all going to be able to participate?  If so, what are your thoughts on the question of the lynch, and the two role-claiming recommendations (Aman said we shouldn't reveal roles at all, a smart choice in most cases and especially in a conversion game, while Mark suggested Thugs should claim to try to draw out the Inquisitor).

@Figberts and @Sart, you've really only posted RP (Sart voted on himself, but I don't count that in this case, especially considering the nature of the vote), which is a really convenient way to hide as an Elim sometimes. Can you please share some thoughts on the discussion as well? 

@Mark IV, others have expressed this as well, but I find myself suspicious of a couple things.  First, your comment about the number of Elims, though your explanation was fairly satisfactory.  In fact, you could be wrong, so that isn't why I'm still suspicious, but it's what made me initially look at you.  Then, I looked at your idea of having Thugs claim, and then using any subsequent failed lynches to identify the Inquisitor.  When I played a Thug before, I realized that I could end up clearing myself by being attacked by the Elims, but surviving (which is indeed exactly what happened, though I still had people suspicious of me), but if I'd claimed, they would have either arranged a situation where they could double-tap me, or would simply leave me alone, and I wouldn't be able to draw out any information.  Claiming a role like the Thug is almost as bad as claiming a protect role or Seeker. The seeker should never claim unless they think they've identified close to or the entire Elim team (which can change in this game, so especially risky), though they should use their knowledge of people's alignments to guide discussion toward lynching them, or maybe ask a Coinshot to take someone out, if they think they can trust that Coinshot.

In fact, since I'm still waffling on the idea of a D1 lynch this game, despite the low odds of hitting the Inquisitor, at this point I am going to place my vote on Mark. What you've been suggesting is too risky, and seems like a good way to draw out mistings that could hurt the Elims plans, so they can be safely eliminated or converted.

This only applies when you're caiming outside of a plan. However, when we arrange there to be a plan, why would we still set up someone to double tap you?

The point of me proposing a plan was not to execute it myself. The point of proposing a plan is to have a discussion over it and streamline it if possible. Given that there wasn't a plan on the table... (refer to point 6 above)  (Btw, Joe inspired me by saying: "Put forward a plan, even if it's a crappy plan with no chance of success, it will spark discussion". I don't remember where he said this though)

So, to summarise, If what I've been suggesting is too risky, naturally the plan will be scrapped. But, would you rather I'd kept a good plan quiet because I was scared it was too risky? (I'm not saying this plan is good. I'm saying if the plan were good)

2 hours ago, Ecthelion III said:

Amnar the Watcher was not invited. Of course, that wasn't to say he didn't go anyway.

For a long stretch of time, he followed from a distance, tracking the movements of the figures in the night. They all seemed to be going toward one particular location, though Amnar couldn't pinpoint it exactly. He followed one such figure for some time--whether is was a few minutes or a few hours, he didn't know. He was merely a shadow, content in an ambient state.

He suddenly froze as another man, this one in a silver-streaked cloak, darted from an alley and smashed the first figure on the head with a dueling cane. The figure crumpled, and satisfied with his work, the assailant picked up the unconscious body and hauled it away. Amnar watched all this from afar. Slowly, carefully, he slunk out from his hiding place and followed the newcomer. These were dangerous men, and it never hurt to be too cautious.

He didn't get far before coming aware of movement behind him. Turning around, he saw another silver-cloak attempting to sneak up behind him.

Fools. This was his domain.

He dropped that one with a dagger, but the dying man's scream alerted his fellow silver-cloak, who attempted to run. Another dagger felled that one noiselessly.

Upon closer inspection of the bodies, the silver-cloaks were each carrying identical bags. He unbuttoned one and found that they were filled with stacks of papers. He took the top one off the stack and read:

Dear Astrid,

You may have disliked the kidnapping that you have no doubt experienced, but we expect you to easily overcome such an issue. We hope you enjoy the experience that is being provided to you by the Lord Tekiel

Amnar stopped reading after that. He knew all he needed to know now. "The Lord Tekiel."

Before leaving, he dragged the unconscious figure--Astrid, it would appear--into the safety of a darkened building, then fused himself back into the shadows and vanished.

-

The silver-cloaks came back for Astrid. She was still unconscious when the others saw her (nobody knew if she was even still alive) but one of the others found a small slip of paper when rifling through her pockets:

Keep a careful eye on he who follows [MARK IV]. He is plagued with darkness, or else overcome by it.

Have patience. Stay vigilant. I have been waylaid by dawn's coming; let yourselves not be waylaid by the dusk.

AMNAR THE WATCHER

@Ecthelion III

You provide no reasoning for your vote. To me, this feels like you're hiding behind other's reasonings. So, I'd like youto say as much atleast, and allow me to defend myself. Otherwise, it seems like a bandwagon.

So, until you provide a satisfactory reasoning, Ecthelion.

How dare you say that a follower of the Ja is plagued by darkness! Or, worse, Overcome by it? This is blasphemy. The Ja's protection shields all of his followers! None under his hand shall be corrupt! (I hope!)

Praise The Ja!

Edited by Mark IV
Praise the Ja! The Ja shall prevail!
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First, I actually missed Arinian's vote on you, so I didn't realize I was joining a bandwagon. (Of course, this sounds super eliminatory, but the truth is stranger than fiction, and I'm a candid guy. A real eliminator would find a tactful way out of this. Now that sounds eliminatory. I'm just going to stop. :P)

Secondly, from your first post, I just had bad gut on you. I dislike how people always pretend to have these grand schemes on D1 about who is likely an eliminator when in reality there's about 0 hard fact to work with. So in other words, everyone don't brush aside my suspicions because they're not based on "facts" because you don't have facts either.

Anyway, on to the reasons:

  • The tone of your first post seemed a bit defensive, as if you were defending yourself without physically defending yourself. Does that make sense? No? sorry
  • Several of your paragraphs are self-contradictory. Apparently, early on, the elim would be quiet, but for the first few cycles, they should speak up, and they would probably be generally quiet but they could also be latently vocal. Sounds like you're saying a whole lot of "I don't know" with a whole lot of text, and some over-analysis of Wilson thrown in as well
  • Plus it just seemed to me like something an elim would say at this point in the game *shrug*

Also, I don't want to hear any codswallop from the peanut gallery about "helping elim buddies" or "he was probably talking the doc" because there's only one.

 

(Sorry if this post sounds rushed. It is. I didn't proofread it. It's like midnight here. I know I turn crazy at midnight. Sorry.)

Edited by Ecthelion III
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1 hour ago, Ecthelion III said:

First, I actually missed Arinian's vote on you, so I didn't realize I was joining a bandwagon. (Of course, this sounds super eliminatory, but the truth is stranger than fiction, and I'm a candid guy. A real eliminator would find a tactful way out of this. Now that sounds eliminatory. I'm just going to stop. :P)

  1. Secondly, from your first post, I just had bad gut on you. I dislike how people always pretend to have these grand schemes on D1 about who is likely an eliminator when in reality there's about 0 hard fact to work with. So in other words, everyone don't brush aside my suspicions because they're not based on "facts" because you don't have facts either.

     
  2. The tone of your first post seemed a bit defensive, as if you were defending yourself without physically defending yourself. Does that make sense? No? sorry
  3. Several of your paragraphs are self-contradictory.
    Apparently,
  • early on, the elim would be quiet,
  • but for the first few cycles, they should speak up,
  • and they would probably be generally quiet
  • but they could also be latently vocal. Sounds like you're saying a whole lot of "I don't know" with a whole lot of text, and some over-analysis of Wilson thrown in as well

      4.Plus it just seemed to me like something an elim would say at this point in the game *shrug*

I'll take your word for it. (about the bandwagon thing, I mean)

Okay. Onto the points. I've numbered them again, of course. (And removed a line saying "Anyways, onto the reasons" right before point 2, because formatting)

  1. I'l get to the first point after the fourth point (because who likes linear reasoning anyways. :P)
     
  2. Well, no, it doesn't make sense. My first post was solely analysing other people's posts. I do not get what would be remotely defensive in that. That combined with the fact that you've never seen me make a long post and yet you say  was defensive, makes me think you're grasping at straws for your reasoning. 
     
  3. No several of my paragraphs are not self-contradictory. They would only be self contradictory if they happened at all once. However, I've stated, after each of the relevant ones, that "this is probably not likely" or "I know X and Y seem contradictory, but they're both possibilities" (I said something like this after para 1 and 2 of my first post) 
  • Yes, I said early on, the inquisitor would be quiet. That is plausible because they don't want the spotlight on them early on. 
  • Then, thinking from the elim's point of view, and looking at the fact that the contribution crusade is present this game, I said the elim might also think it prudent to maintain a continuous level of activity. So, now the elim has two choices to choose from. Note that both of them are mutually exclusive. (Unless, (refer to next point))
  • I never said this, I don't think. That was wilson (I think, or was it Aman?) who said that the elim might just be someone who prefers to stay quiet even into the late game. 
  • However, if the GM chose someone who is vocal, that Vocal!Elim might just not maintain that facade of passivity late into the game because they could already have a cabal of spiked behind them, vis-a-vis them being passive early game because they're the only elim alive right now.
    And, yes, I'm giving a shrug saying I don't know in the end. What else would you expect? I don't have any hard evidence to go on. And, you seem to agree from point one.
    Btw, that wasn't over-analysis. In-fact, that was under-analysis. Wilson actually  thought further than I did. so, If I had analysed her statements and the meaning behind them more, I'd have gotten the meaning she meant to convey. So, no that wasn't over-analysis. 
    Also, what does me analysing wilson in that post have anything to do with anything? However, you mentioning it there makes it seem like you think that that was unnecessary and bad.

      4. This point cannot really be argued upon much, given that it's your opinion.

 

Praise the Ja! 

Edit: I forgot to add this in, but if it wasn't clear from my post, I am not satisfied by the reasoning behind your vote. So, I shall keep my vote on you for now.

Edit 2: I forgot to add this in too: Another thing I find suspicious here is that you still voted forme originally without any reasoning or any indication that you were going to give one later. Yet, you had enough energy to stay up past midnight a little to type up a response. 

Edited by Mark IV
Praise the Ja! The Ja shall prevail!
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For what it's worth, I'm on Mark's side, here. Before he even mentioned that Joe quote, I was of the opinion that he was just a villager making a few suggestions that he thought might be helpful without thinking them entirely through. I even said as much in a PM or two. That logic fits well when you consider his response to Wilson's post. His conclusions there were not thoroughly considered either, which I made sure to point out shortly after he posted them. Like my response to Randuir's post when he expressed suspicion towards Wilson, I think there is a fine difference between a player having thoughts or ideas that clash with your own, and them being genuinely suspicious. There's nothing inherently wrong with having an unpopular opinion or even making a mistake. One of the main points of discussion, after all, is players expressing these things so we can collectively decide which are worth developing and which should be discarded. Plus, from what I know about Mark (I like to think I know him rather well), if he was the Inquisitor, he wouldn't have attempted to manipulate the village by selling ideas that weren't fully deliberated on. I may be a little biased, though, as I haven't played a game with Mark in a while and would like to, so my opinion of him may be colored a bit in his favor.

Honestly, if I were to seriously advocate someone die today, it would be a player who is lurking or inactive. I would rather the Inquisitor start using their conversions sooner rather than later, but I'd also rather not lynch a villager who's actually participating in the game, whether it be the discussion or the narrative. In the spirit of that, I'll remove my vote from Wilson, as she's satisfied the initial conditions of my vote, even if she is frustrated with herself for getting involved. I understand where she's coming from, about not wanting to take the game too seriously, but I do wholeheartedly believe every player has a responsibility to put some effort into a game if they sign up for it. If they don't, what's the point in living while the players who want to participate die?

Hence right now I'm looking at the three players who haven't posted yet (Dalinar Kholin, DroughtBringer and Iamspartacus), as well as the four players who currently have votes while participating minimally this turn (Sart, Drake Marshall, Aonar Faileas, Ecthelion III).

  • @Dalinar Kholin hasn't been online since Friday, so for now I'm willing to leave him be under the assumption that he's busy with real life and will return soon. If he doesn't, we'll either find out he's the Inquisitor for a lack of kill and conversion, or he won't be converted anyway. 
  • @DroughtBringer hasn't been on the forums in 16 hours, which means he's at least seen his GM PM, and I know I've seen him active on Discord, so I'm going to try reaching out to him to see what's up. If he continues to lurk after that, I may advocate his death.
  • @Iamspartacus is a first timer, so that automatically means I'll give her a few turns worth of amnesty, and she also hasn't been on the website since Friday, so she deserves as much leeway as Dalinar, imo. Like Drought, however, she is a member of the SE Discord Server, so I'll see if I can reach out to her too.
  • @Sart was last online 5 hours ago, but hasn't posted since four hours after the game began, in which he voted for himself.  Earlier this turn I @mentioned him and asked that clarify why he did that. He might not have noticed it because I did it when I edited a post, but I'm pretty sure people still receive a new notification when that happens.
  • @Drake Marshall I've confronted as well, although he at least said if he would be more active later. I'm willing to trust it when he says that, especially since he told us he was sick before the game began.
  • @Aonar Faileas is a relatively safe option since his first post was essentially him offering himself up. But like Mark, I haven't played with Aonar in a while and even if he's not got the motivation for proper analysis right now, I would like to see him get to that point. I think it would be a shame to kill him before he had the chance.
  • @Ecthelion III I'm pretty dang certain is village, plus considering how often he dies early in games and how upsetting I know that can be, I don't want to help perpetuate that.

So, of those seven, I think I'd rather lynch Drought or Sart. Since Sart has been active on the forums and already has a vote, I guess I'll choose him for now, with hopes of pushing him to at least defend himself.


Day One Vote Tally

(0) OmeGasterArraenae

(0) ArraenaeAmanuensis

(2) SartSartAmanuensis

(0) ElenionJondesu

(0) little wilsonAmanuensis, Mark IV

(1) Drake MarshallTheMightyLopen

(3) Mark IVArinianJondesuEcthelion III

(1) Aonar FaileasSilverblade5

(1) Ecthelion IIIMark IV

Edited by Amanuensis
To add some more information
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