Long Game (3)2: Pulling on Strings

[Hemalurgic Headshot]

10 minutes ago, Yitzi2 said:

I'm afraid Wilson already took the blame for that mistake.

Oh. Well, I'm still leaving my vote on Hero.

[Darkness Ascendant]

Oh damnation. I never got around to posting my suspicions on Hero >>
It basically all sprouted from how he kept calling out the Elims and "trolling" them >> Those really put me off and just sunk me in suspicion. As Wilson has mentioned he's busy irl and I'm thinking he's just falling back to...I guess they're filler posts because they don't really help anyone.

Hero

Edited April 25, 2017 by Darkness Ascendant

[little wilson]

I don't think any of his troll posts were from when he was converted, or at least his first ones definitely weren't. That was actually at least partly to do with me, if not mostly. Aonar is a troll, and he was one of the reasons it was easy for me to maintain a bit of snark earlier in the game: I knew that even if none of the other players were amused, he would be (and the snark was fun for me too). Then he died. Hero's initial trolling was to compensate for the loss of Aonar. It was for me.

[Yitzi2]

Though that last one, gloating about having stopped the elims twice, could have been to give him an excuse to try to draw all the village protection onto himself.

[Herowannabe]

16 hours ago, little wilson said:

Sorry, Lopen. That was probably my fault for saying that Rae's comment felt like they were trying to put protection on a role that was pointless. They probably guessed you would be open from that. And I'd actually considered that, but decided surely Kipper or Figberts would be better to attack, given their roles and also less likely possibility of being protected.... 

I guess we'll know if the spike takes this time though.  Not much more obvious than if all of a sudden PMs are back.

Anyway, I still think Hero is the convert. His post last day cycle made me rethink my suspicion of him for a bit and wonder if the convert was the other Lurcher, but....converting Hero makes too much sense. And his busy schedule in RL means that he has less time to plan and strategize but he still feels like he should be doing stuff to help his new team, like pulling village protection off of people or attempting to make one doubt their suspicion of the Inquisitor if they're certain they're right. He said that he stopped requesting double protection two nights ago, but the other Lurcher said that Hero asked for it, and that was many hours after I'd talked to Hero about it and he'd admitted that I was right. Additionally, he insisted that the Inquisitor could easily be a brand new, first time player to get me doubting OmeGaster, even though giving a brand new, first time player a role like that is incredibly risky since you don't know their activity. Brand new players have been given important roles in the past and then gone completely inactive. What if Spartacus had been the Inquisitor? We wouldn't even have a game. No, I rather think I was right about HH, but he wanted to make me add more suspects to the pool. So Hero.

(Also, if you're wondering how to get the standard red on desktop, select "More Colors" at the bottom of the drop down color menu. A color palette will appear and you can just select the exact color you want on that).

A couple points, just to be perfectly clear:

Quote

He said that he stopped requesting double protection two nights ago, but the other Lurcher said that Hero asked for it, and that was many hours after I'd talked to Hero about it and he'd admitted that I was right.

Actually, I talked to the other Lurcher before we had that conversation, and then the Lurcher told you about it and then you came to me about it. Once you pointed out that the Spiked could have killed me any time with Uber-Iron I dropped that whole idea. I didn't even speak with the Lurcher after that point other than last night cycle when I told them I'd be protecting myself. 

(Also, if I were a convert, what would be the point of trying to draw protection to myself and then not even submit a kill order that night? That literally makes 0 sense)

Quote

Additionally, he insisted that the Inquisitor could easily be a brand new, first time player to get me doubting OmeGaster, even though giving a brand new, first time player a role like that is incredibly risky since you don't know their activity. Brand new players have been given important roles in the past and then gone completely inactive. What if Spartacus had been the Inquisitor? We wouldn't even have a game.

That wasn't an attempt to misdirect, though I guess I could see how it might look that way. I've been tentatively wary of the new players all game. Lopen could confirm that- we discussed it long before there was a chance I could have been converted- except, you know, he's dead. 

Quote

Anyway, I still think Hero is the convert. His post last day cycle made me rethink my suspicion of him for a bit and wonder if the convert was the other Lurcher, but....converting Hero makes too much sense.

Actually, converting me (or you, or Lopen, or anyone else who has publicly declared their role) would be a really dumb idea, because there's too much potential for this exact situation: When the newly snapped player reveals their role it casts suspicion on anybody known to have that role. 

As such, I think it's more likely that they converted the other Lurcher, or perhaps someone different entirely and the snapped player randomly drew Iron. As such, I'm voting for Yitzi. 

EDIT:

Also,

Quote

Though that last one, gloating about having stopped the elims twice, could have been to give him an excuse to try to draw all the village protection onto himself.

I would NEVER troll in a deliberate attempt to deceive people. Except, you know, of course, for the times that I do. 

Edited April 25, 2017 by Herowannabe

[Bugsy]

I apologize to everyone here for my recent inactivity. Unfortunately, I can't promise I'll be more active with my approaching AP Exams. I can, however, promise an effort

That said, I skimmed the last cycle or so, and I agree with Wilson's assessment on Hero. From his behavior, especially as described by her, is suspicious. I would, however, be interested in hearing a defense 

Edit: Aaaaand I was ninja'd. I'll try to post my response to hero's defense soon  

Edited April 25, 2017 by Bugsy6912

[Yitzi2]

14 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

Actually, I talked to the other Lurcher before we had that conversation, and then the Lurcher told you about it and then you came to me about it. Once you pointed out that the Spiked could have killed me any time with Uber-Iron I dropped that whole idea. I didn't even speak with the Lurcher after that point other than last night cycle when I told them I'd be protecting myself. 

(Also, if I were a convert, what would be the point of trying to draw protection to myself and then not even submit a kill order that night? That literally makes 0 sense)

What would be the point of not submitting a kill order that night in any case?  Clearly, whoever was supposed to submit the kill order wasn't able to do it in time for whatever reason.  Although the fact that you never got a response regarding your "everybody protects you" proposal (which you also failed to retract once the possibility of using Iron was pointed out) does give a very plausible reason for waiting until it was too late.

By the way, you forgot two other explanations besides you being the convert, me being the convert (which you probably shouldn't have made clear, since Wilson already knew and would be able to post before being killed if you turned out to be innocent, so whichever team you're on it's a disadvantage for the other team to know too), or the snap being unrelated to the conversion: It could be that there was a third lurcher, or it could be that the supposed snapped was actually the third convert or the inquisitor...though in that last case, it is extremely strange that Wilson was not attacked last night.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Yitzi2

[little wilson]

Well this is interesting. I'm back to the conundrum I had after the Snapped talked to me and I was trying to figure out if it was Hero or Yitzi who'd been converted. On the one hand, I've got Hero, who could easily have been converted and I can't trust his arguments even though I want to because they sound completely genuine and he makes a fair bit of sense. On the other hand, there's Yitzi, who is saying things that don't quite add up which could be because he's still learning the game because he's new or it could be because he's evil.

So here's a crucial fact: Yitzi knew exactly who would be protected last night. I'd told him, because I was certain that Hero was evil. While I can see Lopen being attacked either way, it makes even more sense for Lopen to have been attacked with Yitzi being evil as opposed to Hero: kill Lopen and I will gun for Hero, causing a mislynch, and they can use the Iron spike to convert tonight rather than the useless Tin. If I'm killed, though, you don't know if Hero will end up lynched because I'm by far the one most suspicious of him. Therefore, keep me alive and kill Lopen.

I find it interesting that Yitzi is also like "You probably shouldn't have said that I'm the other Lurcher," since if Hero is evil, the Spiked already know so it doesn't hurt for that information to be revealed in the thread. The only reason you wouldn't want that information revealed is if the Spiked don't know it or if you yourself are Spiked and you don't want the village knowing what your role was and giving you more people to be accountable to.

Also, one of the main reasons I was suspicious of Hero was due to things Yitzi was telling me about his PM with Hero, making it seem like Hero was just saying certain things or that he'd said them after I'd talked to Hero. And when it comes to the timing of the PMs, Hero's comments strike me as completely genuine there. He's been busy enough that I can believe that. He hadn't responded to my PM from around that time either.

I don't know why an attack wasn't made the night before last, but at the end of the day, I don't think we can assume it was from inactivity, since Rae could've made that kill as well. They had 48 hours. It could've been a busy teammate. It could've been that someone forgot to place the order. It could've been planned to make it seem like that. So I think I'm going to put that aside.

I'm going to retract from Hero because I want more discussion about this as opposed to the bandwagon that's formed. I don't know which one of them it is now, but I'm leaning toward Yitzi, given his knowledge last night. Not enough to cast a vote on him, but let's discuss this.

[Yitzi2]

3 hours ago, little wilson said:

Well this is interesting. I'm back to the conundrum I had after the Snapped talked to me and I was trying to figure out if it was Hero or Yitzi who'd been converted. On the one hand, I've got Hero, who could easily have been converted and I can't trust his arguments even though I want to because they sound completely genuine and he makes a fair bit of sense. On the other hand, there's Yitzi, who is saying things that don't quite add up which could be because he's still learning the game because he's new or it could be because he's evil.

So here's a crucial fact: Yitzi knew exactly who would be protected last night. I'd told him, because I was certain that Hero was evil. While I can see Lopen being attacked either way, it makes even more sense for Lopen to have been attacked with Yitzi being evil as opposed to Hero: kill Lopen and I will gun for Hero, causing a mislynch, and they can use the Iron spike to convert tonight rather than the useless Tin. If I'm killed, though, you don't know if Hero will end up lynched because I'm by far the one most suspicious of him. Therefore, keep me alive and kill Lopen.

I find it interesting that Yitzi is also like "You probably shouldn't have said that I'm the other Lurcher," since if Hero is evil, the Spiked already know so it doesn't hurt for that information to be revealed in the thread. The only reason you wouldn't want that information revealed is if the Spiked don't know it or if you yourself are Spiked and you don't want the village knowing what your role was and giving you more people to be accountable to.

Also, one of the main reasons I was suspicious of Hero was due to things Yitzi was telling me about his PM with Hero, making it seem like Hero was just saying certain things or that he'd said them after I'd talked to Hero. And when it comes to the timing of the PMs, Hero's comments strike me as completely genuine there. He's been busy enough that I can believe that. He hadn't responded to my PM from around that time either.

I don't know why an attack wasn't made the night before last, but at the end of the day, I don't think we can assume it was from inactivity, since Rae could've made that kill as well. They had 48 hours. It could've been a busy teammate. It could've been that someone forgot to place the order. It could've been planned to make it seem like that. So I think I'm going to put that aside.

I'm going to retract from Hero because I want more discussion about this as opposed to the bandwagon that's formed. I don't know which one of them it is now, but I'm leaning toward Yitzi, given his knowledge last night. Not enough to cast a vote on him, but let's discuss this.

Assuming there are no village coinshots left, iron is also useless to an elim (though tin is still worse, being actually counterproductive to the elim cause if it takes).  If the elims knew who would be protected, their best target if trying for a useful convert would be a thug (there was one unprotected thug, assuming he's not the inquisitor) or rioter, since those are useful for an elim.

As for what Hero said: The first message where I mentioned those actually involved time info.  The second one (about him suggesting we both protect him) was too minor to be significant on its own, hence I only mentioned it after you said you were suspicious of Hero.  So I'm sorry if I wasn't clear that that hadn't just happened, but I didn't mean to say that had just happened.

EDIT: One final thing to consider: The elims knew that Hero was a lurcher.  Only three people knew that I was a lurcher, and you and Hero were two of them.  So assuming that they wanted to convert a lurcher, Hero was a much more likely choice.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Yitzi2

[little wilson]

But I don't think they were trying to convert a Lurcher. I realized that giving up Uber Iron probably had nothing to do with the conversion that had just happened. Think about it: if you're the Inquisitor and you only have two powers left, Uber Iron or Uber Pewter, and you have to sacrifice one of them to create this Steel spiked convert, which one are you going to give up? You're not going to want to give up either of them, but if you've lost just about every convert you've brought onto your team, you have to survive for long enough to make your last conversion. Therefore, you have to keep Uber Pewter. So Uber Iron has to go.

And who was the unprotected Thug? Kipper? He wasn't unprotected. The other Lurcher was protecting him, like I told you.

[Yitzi2]

1 hour ago, little wilson said:

But I don't think they were trying to convert a Lurcher. I realized that giving up Uber Iron probably had nothing to do with the conversion that had just happened. Think about it: if you're the Inquisitor and you only have two powers left, Uber Iron or Uber Pewter, and you have to sacrifice one of them to create this Steel spiked convert, which one are you going to give up? You're not going to want to give up either of them, but if you've lost just about every convert you've brought onto your team, you have to survive for long enough to make your last conversion. Therefore, you have to keep Uber Pewter. So Uber Iron has to go.

And who was the unprotected Thug? Kipper? He wasn't unprotected. The other Lurcher was protecting him, like I told you.

Oh, I didn't mean giving up uber iron therefore converting a lurcher, I just mean hoping to knock out one of the village lurchers, especially one that gave them so much trouble.

Hero was a much more prominent target than me.

As for the unprotected thug, I somehow ended up counting Kipper separately from Elenion (the character).  Not sure how that happened, though having two Elenions in the game probably contributed.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Yitzi2

[little wilson]

I'm still not convinced that Hero is Spiked and with the lack of discussion this cycle, I'm going to place my vote on Yitzi. Hopefully, the result will end as a tie (unlikely. I think someone needs to retract from Hero or someone needs to vote on Yitzi (not both) to achieve that) and neither will be lynched, so we can actually discuss the two of them. Plus, if Hero isn't Spiked, a tie would mean that if they want to convert tonight, they'd have to do so with the Tin spike, which could possibly get us our PMs back. Otherwise, they'd have to wait an additional cycle.

And can everyone please participate? Let's not let the activity die off just because we've successfully killed a few of them.

[Orlok Tsubodai]

This cycle is now over.

[Orlok Tsubodai]

LG32: Night Ten - Studying

Dear Herwynbe,

As you read this, others should be on their way to you right now. Now, this is not the time to ask ‘How does he know?’ or ‘Why won’t he help me?’, but rather ‘What have I done to deserve this?’. Of course, the answer to that is that you murdered a few innocent civilians, however you can die knowing that I approved of your actions. You would have been a fine citizen of Fadrex, if it wasn’t for the bloodlust. 

However, this next paragraph will be for all the people that helped kill little ‘ol Herwynbe, as Herwynbe will surely be dead by this point in time. If you look to your left, you should see a few corpses. Now, unless I’m horribly wrong and need to correct my mistakes, each corpse should be a family relative of the living. Yes, they’ve been dead for a while. It’s surprisingly easy to maintain corpses, when you get enough practice. 

Unfortunately, I didn’t get enough time to place them artistically, so I’ve made it so you have to shuffle through them to try and find which one is your relative. 

Hope to see you soon,
The Court Fool

---

Herowannabe was lynched! He was a Regular Spiked.

Vote count:
Herowannabe: Yitzi2, Darkness Ascendant, Bugsy6912
Yitzi2: Herowannabe, little wilson
Kipper: Elenion

Player List
1. Arinian - Alrin
2. Hemalurgic Headshot - Quinn
3. Jondesu - Remart - Spiked Coppercloud
4. Elenion - Roger Elariel
5. Drake Marshall - Serray - Regular Crewmember
6. Darkness Ascendant - The Phantom Stranger
7. Randuir - Magister Agemtsar Spiked Smoker
8. Magestar - David Agemtsar
9. Herowannabe - Herwynbe - Regulat Spiked
10. Yitzi2 - Garshin
11. Metacognition - Village Pewterarm
12. Silverblade5 - Ryth
13: Arraenae - Rhea - Spiked Pewterarm
14. TheMightyLopen - Sidon - Village Tineye
15. little wilson - Willie Klara
16. Droughtbringer - You  - Regular Crewmember
17. Iamspartacus - Astrid the Bold
18. Ornstein - Winkleton - Regular Crewmember
19. Araris Valerian - Wol Village Rioter
20. Dalinar Kholin - Lebochevkowski - Village Coppercloud
21. OmeGaster - Rieyun
22. Kipper - Elenion - Pewterarm
23. Sart - Gaetan - Regular Crewmember
24. Bugsy - Jelwynd
25. Figberts - Quond
26. Mark IV - The Follower
27. Manukos - Reval
28. Aonar Faileas - Vana Izenry Village Coinshot]
29. Ecthelion - Amnar - Village Pewterarm
30. Amanuensis - Mykal - Village Smoker

Edited April 27, 2017 by Alvron

[little wilson]

Huh. Guess I should've trusted my gut. So there won't be a kill tonight because there's no one to make it. This is good. Unfortunately, it's not terribly helpful, because the Inquisitor will just convert tonight and sacrifice himself, and then we'll be back at square one, only this time, we've got a significantly less active village. Lovely. >>

[Yitzi2]

Not quite back to square one, because after the conversion there won't be an inquisitor (unless he has a sixth power; we've been assuming five but that's not certain).

Edited April 27, 2017 by Yitzi2

[Hemalurgic Headshot]

There goes the last of Quinn's sanity...

MELLIE!!!!!!!! WHY?????!!!!!!! AAAUUUGGHHHHHH!!!!!

Now his wife is dead... I truly pity him. ... I can't watch, this is depressing.

If I had hands, or arms, I would give you a hug, but I don't, so sorry.

AUUUGGHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhh.......

<QUINN has no more available Pokemon. QUINN blacked out!>

[little wilson]

3 hours ago, Yitzi2 said:

Not quite back to square one, because after the conversion there won't be an inquisitor (unless he has a sixth power; we've been assuming five but that's not certain).

That's what I mean though. Sure, the Inquisitor will be dead, but because he will die just as the new convert gets made, we won't have any interaction to look at to figure out who the convert is. We'll be back at square one in terms of finding who is evil. Everyone against one evil, just like at the start of the game.

[Yitzi2]

7 hours ago, little wilson said:

That's what I mean though. Sure, the Inquisitor will be dead, but because he will die just as the new convert gets made, we won't have any interaction to look at to figure out who the convert is. We'll be back at square one in terms of finding who is evil. Everyone against one evil, just like at the start of the game.

True.  However:

-The lack of an inquisitor would mean it's staying just everybody against one evil, so with this many players left even a simple random-guessing strategy would have decent chances.

-A limit of one evil means that if both lurchers protect themselves, the elim can't take them out, and can only win by causing one of them to be mislynched (assuming, of course, that the inquisitor doesn't convert a lurcher tonight without a snapped replacement; of course, if he was certain to do that, lynching both lurchers would also be a good win strategy.)

Edited April 27, 2017 by Yitzi2

[Darkness Ascendant]

inb4: Wilson was the inquisitor this entire time XD

[Yitzi2]

1 hour ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

inb4: Wilson was the inquisitor this entire time XD

That would explain how she kept knowing who the elims were.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Yitzi2

[Darkness Ascendant]

19 minutes ago, Yitzi2 said:

That would explain how she kept knowing who the elims were.

Yeah and if she was, then she was craftily converting and killing off, so she could survive longer.

The only reason I don't think she is, is because she played in the original game, and was converted then. I was thinking this whole game. "Surely the GMs didn't make her the Inquisitor, surely they wouldn't make the person who has some of the most experience in the game the Inquisitor"

[little wilson]

I was going to say that that couldn't be possible since I attempted to soothe Rand on the same cycle that the Inquisitor used Uber Iron to redirect Aonar, but I guess if you're going to paranoid enough to think that I could be the Inquisitor, you'd just say that I obviously knew Rand was smoked so I wouldn't have even had to soothe him at all. Though why I'm sacrificing literally every single person I've just converted is beyond me. Ah well. Paranoid theories. >>

[Orlok Tsubodai]

LG32: Day Eleven - Testing

Dear Absolutely Nobody,

Nothing interesting happened, whatsoever. Can none of you be more bloodthirsty? Feel the rage course through your veins and all that dramatic stuff? No? Fine then, I don’t want anybody to die or anything either. Instead, we’ll all get a campfire going and talk about how great it is to eat cake. Yeah, that’s right, the winners of the test get cake. Feeling the urge now?

Well, I hope you are. ‘Cause I’m growing bored of this test now, ya know?

Sincerely,
The Court Is Bored-er.

Player List
1. Arinian - Alrin
2. Hemalurgic Headshot - Quinn
3. Jondesu - Remart - Spiked Coppercloud
4. Elenion - Roger Elariel
5. Drake Marshall - Serray - Regular Crewmember
6. Darkness Ascendant - The Phantom Stranger
7. Randuir - Magister Agemtsar Spiked Smoker
8. Magestar - David Agemtsar
9. Herowannabe - Herwynbe - Regular Spiked
10. Yitzi2 - Garshin
11. Metacognition - Village Pewterarm
12. Silverblade5 - Ryth
13: Arraenae - Rhea - Spiked Pewterarm
14. TheMightyLopen - Sidon - Village Tineye
15. little wilson - Willie Klara
16. Droughtbringer - You  - Regular Crewmember
17. Iamspartacus - Astrid the Bold
18. Ornstein - Winkleton - Regular Crewmember
19. Araris Valerian - Wol Village Rioter
20. Dalinar Kholin - Lebochevkowski - Village Coppercloud
21. OmeGaster - Rieyun
22. Kipper - Elenion - Pewterarm
23. Sart - Gaetan - Regular Crewmember
24. Bugsy - Jelwynd
25. Figberts - Quond
26. Mark IV - The Follower
27. Manukos - Reval
28. Aonar Faileas - Vana Izenry Village Coinshot
29. Ecthelion - Amnar - Village Pewterarm
30. Amanuensis - Mykal - Village Smoker

Edited April 27, 2017 by OrlokTsubodai

[little wilson]

Whelp. I suppose HH? I believe he's the Inquisitor, and he's claimed Regular anyway, which means that even if he's not the Inquisitor, his death won't cause a new spike for the Inquisitor to use to convert. And now that the Inquisitor's passed up his chance to convert using Lopen's spike, he won't have another chance unless we lynch a Misting.