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Long Game (3)2: Pulling on Strings


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3 hours ago, Yitzi2 said:

Some more thoughts:

-If the Inquisitor does show as a regular villager, then at the very least waiting for the Seeker (if there is one) will indicate people who are good targets for lynching (as they might be the Inquisitor, and if not, they at least won't allow a conversion when killed).

-The point of thug roleclaims (assuming it's done by everybody) isn't really to draw out the inquisitor, but present him with a dilemma: If he does claim, and all the real thugs claim as well, there will be a higher-than-expected number of thugs, leading to suspicion on them.  If he does not claim, then if he gets hit and survives it'll be highly suspicious (if everybody claims as soon as they snap thug, he'd have to claim to have either snapped that night, or claim to be mistborn).  On the downside, it could end up revealing the mistborn, and of course lose most of the advantage of having a thug on our team, so it's not so clear it's a good idea.

-Another not-sure-if-it's-a-good-idea is for everybody to name someone else and guess their role, or attach messages to role guesses; this would allow seekers to communicate with people they've investigated in a way that the Inquisitor can't tell even if he has super-tin.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts about the latter two ideas.

The issue with Thug claiming is that Thugs have a buffer life. They take two hits to go down, which is very useful if they're the target of an elim kill. For example, let's say that Orlok was getting close to figuring out who the elims were. Stink, the Inquisitor, puts the kill order on Orlok, but Orlok doesn't die. Now the elims have been denied a kill, and Orlok gets to keep talking.

I don't see why we would want to give up that advantage. Maybe we have some Seekers that could go through every Thug and scan them. Maybe we don't. It'sS possible that we have no Seekers. Also, some village thugs might not want to claim.  If all the Thugs claim, then in the scenario above, Stink would know that he'd have to double-tap Orlok and Orlok would die earlier. The little advantage we'd get from Thug-claiming doesn't seem to outweigh the advantage we'd get from Thugs soaking up hits and staying alive.

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9 minutes ago, Arraenae said:

The issue with Thug claiming is that Thugs have a buffer life. They take two hits to go down, which is very useful if they're the target of an elim kill. For example, let's say that Orlok was getting close to figuring out who the elims were. Stink, the Inquisitor, puts the kill order on Orlok, but Orlok doesn't die. Now the elims have been denied a kill, and Orlok gets to keep talking.

I don't see why we would want to give up that advantage. Maybe we have some Seekers that could go through every Thug and scan them. Maybe we don't. It'sS possible that we have no Seekers. Also, some village thugs might not want to claim.  If all the Thugs claim, then in the scenario above, Stink would know that he'd have to double-tap Orlok and Orlok would die earlier. The little advantage we'd get from Thug-claiming doesn't seem to outweigh the advantage we'd get from Thugs soaking up hits and staying alive.

Of course, that depends on how good the Thug is at figuring things out.

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22 minutes ago, Yitzi2 said:

Of course, that depends on how good the Thug is at figuring things out.

Even if our thugs is will do nothing useful there still chance for them soak hit from elim. Also in most scenarios after someone get hit by elims it's safely to say that he is cleared atleast particulary.(of course we have Wilson in this game so better to forget about second point... WGGs... WGGs everywhere :P).

Edited by Arinian
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I've been feeling sick the last couple days, and didn't want to post anything incoherent, so I haven't been posting. I should have said that earlier, I am sorry.

 

 

I'm the name of self preservation I'll vote on Sart I also don't like people voting on themselves. 

 

I do not think we should have the thugs role claim, they would either be double tapped at a point, or coverted, or just avoided altogether. 

 

Another option for role claiming is the vanilla villagers, they would be able to give us a slight chance of knowing when somone is converted, it wouldn't be a perfect system but would give us some ideas of when someone might have been converted.

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43 minutes ago, DroughtBringer said:

Another option for role claiming is the vanilla villagers, they would be able to give us a slight chance of knowing when somone is converted, it wouldn't be a perfect system but would give us some ideas of when someone might have been converted.

How exactly would that help us track conversions? I assume we get told the role of whoever we lynch, and I don't think there's a rule restricting who can or can't be converted.

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12 minutes ago, little wilson said:

You know, if you're that certain I'm the Inquisitor, why don't you cast a vote on me?

You taking it too serious. I'm absolutely not paranoid of WGGs from you. I'm just joking. I'm suspicious of you but not more then to every lurker in this game. So don't be so harsh... or you still angry on me that I ruined your game by finding all elims in 1 turn :huh:?

Edited by Arinian
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13 minutes ago, little wilson said:

You know, if you're that certain I'm the Inquisitor, why don't you cast a vote on me?

I think it's more that he's that certain that if you are the Inquisitor (or become spiked) we can expect to see a lot of WGGs. 

Although now that you've said that...being overly paranoid about being suspected of being the Inquisitor is the sort of thing one might expect from the Inquisitor.  Anybody who's played with wilson before know whether he's usually that paranoid about being suspected?

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*stretches. Ok time to get some of this analysis crap done. Forgive me for being a little late. EDIT: This was meant to send last night...

On 27/03/2017 at 0:16 PM, Arraenae said:

Okay. I'd just like to say this now: I cannot understand High Imperial at all. I'll need translations for all gameplay-related things said in High Imperial. Translations can be done similar to the way Sart did it in AG3 or some other way, but they'll have to be in plain English. I get that CRs are fun, but I'd like to have a way to know what is actually getting said.

@OmeGaster/Rieyun! Welcome to SE. Please say something so I know that you're paying attention to this game.

Rae I'm afraid I agree with @Amanuensis here, @mentioning him was enough. No need to pokevote. I'm sleep deprived most of the time, as are Aman and a bunch of others too :P 

I'm also very afraid of @little wilson and @Herowannabe in this game XD . I do not think Wilson is the Inquisitor, but Herowannabe seems like a likely suspect right now. Just a gut feeling mind you all. And my gut is telling me to eat as well...

I also agree that a day one lynch is inadvisable, dittoing what Wilson has said. And building up from what @Mark IV has said about the Inquisitor laying low for the first few cycles. I also have a gut feeling that mark may be the Inquisitor.

What @Yitzi2 has said indeed has merit. 

I recommend we pay close attention to writing style and tone, not to mention ideas, thoughts and plans proposed by players as this game progresses. Perhaps we can pick up on changes and use them to figure out whether the Inquisitor has Spiked them. *Sigh, Marshal posted something similar...

Wounded Gazelle? I always call it Crocodile Tears (to myself)....sounds cooler

I, for one, am also suspicious of Elenion

6 hours ago, Elenion said:

Ising the voting of Drought. Hasing the spying while ising the feigning of sleeping. Ising the lurking, most likely. I ising the disliking of lurking and the promoting of the Contribution Crusade.

Strange how he seems to forget to put in the translations when he feels like it. :P 
Drought has been spying whilst feigning sleep eh? That's quite the accusation. @DroughtBringer , mind backing yourself up?

17 minutes ago, little wilson said:

You know, if you're that certain I'm the Inquisitor, why don't you cast a vote on me?

This won't go anywhere...
I reckon everyone should retract their damnation votes. @Arinian Take it seriously next time then :P I simple joke here can be twisted against one pretty quick.

1 minute ago, Yitzi2 said:

nybody who's played with wilson before know whether he's usually that paranoid about being suspected?

she* She's not being paranoid. She's more so analysing everything as a possible threat. Which sounds like paranoia, but it isn't in this game. It's smart.

*yawns. RP time! (The sudden kidnapping really threw me off XD)

-----------------------------------------

Well. So maybe Phantom never left the gates alive. Maybe he never even stepped through the gate.

I, for one, blame the man. He had been quite the nuisance, coming up behind behind my dauntless protagonist and knocking him out, and draping a sack over his head. And for all that time I spent, building suspense, overtly and overly describing the whole scene in a fashion which would inspire the reader to feel a sense of excitement at the prospect of an adventure, but noooo, he had to be clobbered and kidnapped...

Phantom woke to a searing pain in the back of his head. He attempted to open his eyes, but they seemed to be glued shut, he tried to move his body, but it was unresponsive. He gave a croaky cough, a dry, rasping, heave and shook his head. He tried swallowing, but his throat seemed to be so dry, that he ended up gagging. He licked his lips and lay for a moment, waiting for the pain to go away.

"Is he awake?" A, quiet distorted voice reached him.

"I knew you hit him too hard..." A gruff male voice replied.

The other man gave a raspy chuckle, "Consider this another test... If he survives this, then we know he's made of stern stuff".

Stranger gave a wheezy chuckle to this, struggling to get his voice to work. "S-s-Stern stuff indeed"

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Arinian said:

You taking it too serious. I'm absolutely not paranoid of WGGs from you. I'm just joking. I'm suspicious of you but not more then to every lurker in this game. So don't be so harsh... or you still angry on me that I ruined your game by finding all elims in 1 turn :huh:?

Well, you're gonna have to work on your humor then, because it definitely didn't come across. And no, I'm not angry about that and I never was. I was mildly annoyed at the time, but not angry. I was far more upset about you revealing people's roles without their say-so in the AG because that doesn't help bring inactives back into the game, and why would it, if the players don't care? It shows a severe lack of respect for your fellow players, hence my calling you out in the thread about it. Are you sure you don't carry a grudge against me for that public call-out? Because that's kind of what it looks like. Just so you know, it's not my fault you didn't scan me. That's yours, as the village seeker. 
 

4 minutes ago, Yitzi2 said:

I think it's more that he's that certain that if you are the Inquisitor (or become spiked) we can expect to see a lot of WGGs. 

Although now that you've said that...being overly paranoid about being suspected of being the Inquisitor is the sort of thing one might expect from the Inquisitor.  Anybody who's played with wilson before know whether he's usually that paranoid about being suspected?

Even if I were the Inquisitor, I wouldn't do a WGG after having just done one. Especially not after having pulled one in the first iteration of this game. And rest assured, if I were the Inquisitor, I would kill Orlok because he asked me to join so I could play casually. The Inquisitor is not casual play. But go ahead and paranoid about that, assuming I'm lying (I'm not).

Also, it's not actually alignment-indicative. See, there are two potential driving emotions here. The first is paranoia, which would indicate that I'm the Inquisitor, because only the Inquisitor would be paranoid about others thinking they're the Inquisitor. The other emotion is annoyance, which is easily felt by a villager who is irritated that someone refuses to put their money where their mouth is. I feel like it's pretty evident which emotion this is, what with the snark towards his comments yesterday. He acknowledged that my points have logic (right before voting on Mark), but also says that I clearly don't believe myself because of the failure in my logic. Because that makes sense.

Trust me, Arin, if I hadn't thought something through all the way and realized that my logic was incorrect or that I'd changed my mind, I would have no qualms accepting that and publicly acknowledging that. I wouldn't run with a view I don't believe. Because here's the thing: I don't care what you or hardly anyone else thinks. Call me evil. Be paranoid. But have a better reason that your own self-contradiction and grudge.

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10 minutes ago, little wilson said:

Well, you're gonna have to work on your humor then, because it definitely didn't come across. And no, I'm not angry about that and I never was. I was mildly annoyed at the time, but not angry. I was far more upset about you revealing people's roles without their say-so in the AG because that doesn't help bring inactives back into the game, and why would it, if the players don't care? It shows a severe lack of respect for your fellow players, hence my calling you out in the thread about it. Are you sure you don't carry a grudge against me for that public call-out? Because that's kind of what it looks like. Just so you know, it's not my fault you didn't scan me. That's yours, as the village seeker. 

I can give you reasons for what I done in PM(if you want of course). But DA right better stop it.

Oh also about my humor, you can look in LG28 elim doc I couple time mentioned that my jokes always bad so that's not news for me ;)

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36 minutes ago, Arinian said:

I can give you reasons for what I done in PM(if you want of course). But DA right better stop it.

Oh also about my humor, you can look in LG28 elim doc I couple time mentioned that my jokes always bad so that's not news for me ;)

still not an excuse :P Stop defending yourself like that, and deign to change.

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1 hour ago, little wilson said:

Even if I were the Inquisitor, I wouldn't do a WGG after having just done one. Especially not after having pulled one in the first iteration of this game.

Maybe you wouldn't. Personally, I totally would. It would be the perfect bluff. :D

Not saying I particularly actually suspect you though. I don't really think your long posts about being annoyed indicate very much about your alignment at all.

 

Anyways... Like I said, and like DA seems to have also said, it pays to look for changes in playstyle. I've noticed those kind of differences and then ignored them in the last two games, and ended up regretting I ignored them.

And, speaking of different playstyles, and also speaking of DA, it kind of looks like DA is playing very differently from how he did last game. I'm not sure how to say this, but you seem a lot more... Helpful?

I'm tempted to throw a vote... But I won't. Not yet.

 

Even so. Again, I reiterate. It makes sense to lynch someone this cycle. Yes, you have a 5x less chance to hit an elim. But if you hit an elim C1, it's a 5x more valuable target. In terms of our expectation to win the game, it literally makes no difference that there is only 1 very powerful eliminator right now.

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12 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

Even so. Again, I reiterate. It makes sense to lynch someone this cycle. Yes, you have a 5x less chance to hit an elim. But if you hit an elim C1, it's a 5x more valuable target. In terms of our expectation to win the game, it literally makes no difference that there is only 1 very powerful eliminator right now.

That just means we don't want to wait for someone to get converted.  The question is whether to wait and see if there's a seeker.

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Just now, Yitzi2 said:

That just means we don't want to wait for someone to get converted.  The question is whether to wait and see if there's a seeker.

The only reason a seeker would claim in early game was if they were a lynch target, or they found an eliminator early.

The first situation clearly does not apply, since there is no claim.

The second situation is unlikely to happen soon.

So I wouldn't wait too long for a seeker.

 

And anyway, what good does it do to wait, if there were a seeker? How is the existence of a seeker relevant to our lynch? I'm not sure I understand your reasoning.

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Sigh...

A few things I want to say, but it probably wouldn't be my place too, so I'll just move onto the things relevant to the game that I want to comment on.

5 hours ago, Drake Marshall said:
 

But anyway. In my past few games, it seems to me that one of the best indicators of being an eliminator is a change in playstyle.

2 hours ago, Darkness Ascendant said:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

I recommend we pay close attention to writing style and tone, not to mention ideas, thoughts and plans proposed by players as this game progresses. Perhaps we can pick up on changes and use them to figure out whether the Inquisitor has Spiked them. *Sigh, Marshal posted something similar...

52 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Anyways... Like I said, and like DA seems to have also said, it pays to look for changes in playstyle. I've noticed those kind of differences and then ignored them in the last two games, and ended up regretting I ignored them.

And, speaking of different playstyles, and also speaking of DA, it kind of looks like DA is playing very differently from how he did last game. I'm not sure how to say this, but you seem a lot more... Helpful?

I'm tempted to throw a vote... But I won't. Not yet.

Regarding Drake's statements, I don't think that a playstyle change between games is as indicative as you think. People make mistakes and learn from them, they evolve or simply want to try new things. Sometimes, too, real life or specific game mechanics make them more or less active, and frankly all of these things are hard to pick up on. Look at the difference in my playstyle between LG31 and QF22, for example. I was a villager in both, but in the first game I was the most frequent poster and driver of discussion, and in the second I only posted once. Granted, there were extenuating circumstances that affected by activity in the QF, but I'm not always extremely active, regardless of what alignment I am. While I won't say you shouldn't pay attention to trends and take notes of tells, I think you'll end up becoming consumed by paranoia fast if you suspect everyone who acts a little differently. As for DA himself, the fact that you described him as helpful probably means you shouldn't vote for him. Even if he was the Inquisitor, it's better to let him continue to be helpful for a few turns and then confront him if you find something that is genuinely worrying.

Regarding DA's statement, that's a large part of why I wanted to get as many players talking as possible, and why I'm glad so many touched upon so many different subjects. It should hopefully limit the kinds of stances future Spiked players can take later on (to the benefit of the village), or give us some evidence of a shift in "style, tone, ideas, thoughts, plans" as well as suspicions.

3 hours ago, DroughtBringer said:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

I've been feeling sick the last couple days, and didn't want to post anything incoherent, so I haven't been posting. I should have said that earlier, I am sorry.

...

Another option for role claiming is the vanilla villagers, they would be able to give us a slight chance of knowing when someone is converted, it wouldn't be a perfect system but would give us some ideas of when someone might have been converted.

Glad to have you here. I hope you'll be more active in the future.

Like Rand, I don't exactly understand what you're proposing. This is a good time for me to bring up something Hero mentioned earlier that I finally got clarification on from the GMs, though. Towards the beginning of the game, Hero said this (emphasis mine):

On 3/27/2017 at 11:24 AM, Herowannabe said:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Mostly it's about contacting people early enough in the cycle so that they have time to respond. Contacting inactives 3 hours before the cycle ends doesn't help much.

...

To any Tineyes out there: you actually have a powerful ability with your anonymous night messages. I demonstrated this when I was the Tineye in LG2. Go read the last few pages of LG and find where I explained all my Tin-messages to see what I mean. You can hide clues to your identity in your Tin-messages and use them to prove to people that you haven't been Spiked (when a player gets Spiked they lose any powers they previously had). Make good use of that. 

Orlok confirmed this rule to be true. So, if a Misting gets converted by the Inquisitor, they will always lose their original power, regardless of if they gain a new one. If we were to do roleclaims, I would say the only strategic way to do it would be to make sure everyone's role is known by at least two living people of their choice, so that in case a conversion happens we can test to see if each Misting still has their power. Only this might not always work, due to the Inquisitors own powers, and honestly I think that would be really unfun. So I still am of the opinion that roleclaiming is not wise unless said player is about to get lynched and they have a useful power that the village wouldn't want in the Spiked's hands.

38 minutes ago, Yitzi2 said:

That just means we don't want to wait for someone to get converted.  The question is whether to wait and see if there's a seeker.

Okay so. I've said this in PMs to a couple players, but I personally want players to be converted. I don't find the idea of 29 villagers running around trying to find a single Inquisitor particularly fun. I would rather the Inquisitor use his conversions sooner rather than later so he has less options and information to create an extremely powerful team, and also because I think trying to find connections between players is enjoyable.


Day One Vote Tally

(0) OmeGasterArraenae

(0) ArraenaeAmanuensis

(3) SartSartAmanuensisOrnsteinDroughtBringer

(0) ElenionJondesu

(0) little wilsonAmanuensis, Mark IV

(0) Drake MarshallTheMightyLopen

(2) Mark IVArinianJondesuEcthelion III

(1) Aonar FaileasSilverblade5

(1) Ecthelion IIIMark IV

(2) DroughtBringerElenionArinian

(1) Silverblade5randuir

Edited by Amanuensis
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LG32: Night One - A Change of Pace

We need to talk about something. It’s very important. You see, all of you people can’t comprehend body language for some reason, so it’s almost like you’re all communicating via letters. Another funny thing is you’re all referencing previous stuff, as if there even is any! 

You are among the first to be tested for Fadrex, and it will not do for others to talk about what has happened before the test. The Pre-Fadrex life is a completely different life, and you have all left it behind. So, all this talk about this and that? I have no clue what you’re on about, and I am God in your puny existence. Don’t know about you guys, but I’d like God to be on my side. 

Now, I think you all need to calm down after today, what with all the past life nonsense and this or that. So, you can’t vote on people now. A restriction this early to the test? Not a good thing. But neither are your performances either, so I’d say it evens out.

Oh, and it seems I can’t talk to the audience too much. That’s certainly a shame, we were just getting to the good parts. Unfortunately, Lord Tekiel has had a bit too much to drink, and needs a jovial partner. Oh, how awkward I have to be! See your corpses later!

Oh, and please ignore the man who stabbed himself. Not everyone is fit for such a situation like this. 



Sart was lynched! He was a Regular Crewmember!

Vote Count
(4) Sart: Sart, Amanuensis, Droughtbringer,  TheMightyLopen
(2) Drought: Elenion, Arinian
(1) Mark IV: Jondesu,
(1) Ecthelion III: Mark IV, 
(1) SilverBlade: Randuir

Night 1 has begun. You have 23 hours to send in actions. 

blu_1490824800.png

Player List:
1. Arinian - Alrin
2. Hemalurgic Headshot - Quinn
3. Jondesu - Remart
4. Elenion - Roger Elariel
5. Drake Marshall - Serray
6. Darkness Ascendant - The Phantom Stranger
7. Randuir - Magister Agemtsar
8. Magestar - David Agemtsar
9. Herowannabe - Herwynbe
10. Yitzi2 - Garshin
11. Metacognition
12. Silverblade5 - Ryth
13: Arraenae - Rhea
14. TheMightyLopen - Sidon
15. little wilson - Willie Klara
16. Droughtbringer - You
17. Iamspartacus - Astrid the Bold
18. Ornstein - Winkleton
19. Araris Valerian - Wol
20. Dalinar Kholin - Lebochevkowski
21. OmeGaster - Rieyun
22. Kipper - Elenion
23. Sart - Gaetan - Regular Crewmember
24. Bugsy - Jelwynd
25. Figberts - Quond
26. Mark IV - The Follower
27. Manukos - Reval
28. Aonar Faileas - Vana Izenry
29. Ecthelion - Amnar
30. Amanuensis - Mykal

Edited by Alvron
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Anddd I'm an idiot. Sigh. I didn't reread Sart's post until after the turn was already over, in which he very obviously claimed to not be a Misting. Lynching no one would have been a better alternative than lynching a Regular. If I realized that, I would have either retracted my vote or tried to direct the lynch elsewhere.

@Ecthelion III, you may have just put a target on your head. If I was the Inquisitor I would probably attack you tonight for exercising your role, since it's a guarantee to get him/her a conversion next cycle. Unless you're about to claim that you're not the one who rioted Lopen's vote to Sart?

I'm going to bed. Goodnight, all.

Edited by Amanuensis
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Oh. Dang it. I should have thought of that too. >.<

Sorry Sart! Not like my vote would have changed things, since it was rioted, but if I'd paid better attention, I could have asked for votes to be moved/removed. :/

Edit: Praise the Ja. >>

Edited by TheMightyLopen
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Quote

Sigh. Yes, I did, and I still do, though I could also get behind a Crusade lynch, because I do see the point of starting with momentum. I also specified that it was for this specific game, with these specific mechanics, and I acknowledged before I even suggested it that I usually always support a D1 lynch. Why in hell would I change that up if I were the Inquisitor right now? Oh, but I'm Wilson and I'm so super manipulative and totally would've considered that angle and would be bringing it up now because I'm Wilson. You're being paranoid just because it's me, and your paranoia is entirely unfounded.

I don't honestly think that you're the Inquisitor, Wilson.  Like I said, I don't have enough info to have any suspicions of my own.  Other Palatable things.

I am paranoid of you because it's you.  Sure.  That's why I'm even considering you right now;  However, you should note that the main reason my suspicions of you are as low as they are is because you're you.  You don't strike me as the kind of person to pull a switch in your philosophies in order to deflect suspicion.  Heck, I don't think most people would deflect a D1 lynch in order to defend themselves as the Inquisitor.  It doesn't make a lot of sense.  However, I think you bear... Watching?  Idk.  I think it's interesting that you were against a D1 lynch considering you're you, and therefore I've flagged you to watch, because I want to hear more.  I didn't have time to do anything but scan your reasoning, which is why my post was like a one sentence blurb.  Herbs and Such.

However, last game I backed off of you because of the whole 'You're just saying that 'cause of I'm Wilson blah blah blah' thing, you were an elim.  Surprise!  So, forgive me for being a little suspicious of you. Rosemary.

Thinking about it, I just realized that there's supposed to be only one elim.  Which makes me basically discard you as a suspicion.  But I'd like to address one more thing;  I'm honestly not that scared of you.  You're rep doesn't matter to me.  You're definitely a good manipulator, but you yourself have said you don't do that anymore.  I'm fine with that, and what I have seen of you – since I don't think I've been in any of the games where you went full out –  isn't leaving me overawed.  I'm not paranoid of you.  I'm actually rather bored with your overreactions.  (clarifier;  When I say your rep doesn't matter, that doesn't mean I'm ignoring your past statements and philosophies, just that I'm not going to expect more from you than should be expected yada yada yada.) Thyme

Back to in-game things.  Wow, that cycle flew by. :P I don't have much to say about what happened;  I need to re-read the cycle and such.  Plus I'm tired.  And so I made a post about Wilson instead of in-game things.  Mint

Wilson, if you're vaguely offended by this post, I apologize.  I've tried to tone it back a bit since I realized I likely over reacted in my post responding to your overreaction.  I am, however, as I stated, tired, and don't really feel like an attempt to make this whole post more palatable.

Edited by Magestar
Palatableness.
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