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Palladia

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-- Contains some Secret History information--

On p660 of Hero of Ages, the first generation is discussing the clash between Ruin and Preservation, and notes that Preservation's Mind was basically destroyed:

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"That is impossible," Haddek said. Preservation's power remains, for power cannot be destroyed. His mind, however, was all but destroyed -- for this was the sacrifice he made to imprison Ruin."
"The sliver remains," another reminded. "The shadow of self."
"Yes." Haddek said. "But that is not Preservation, just an image -- a remnant. Now that Ruin has escaped, I think we can assume that even it has been destroyed."

Just from a bit of consideration this brings up a few things:

1) It seems that "the shadow" is refering to the "sliver" that is left of Preservation's mind (referred to in the previous sentence). Shadow + Mind = Cognitive Shadow. I'm noting this link somewhat pedantically, because I think one could say that the second speaker wasn't referring to the Mind anymore, but I think that the juxtaposition makes my reading sensible.

2) If that's true, is the implication here that when a Vessel is sufficiently weakened, to the point that they must give up their Shard and become a Sliver, they would default to a cognitive shadow (I guess assuming they remain in the cognitive realm)?

3) Based on the nearby plot of HoA, I assume that the "image" being discussed is what eventually falls to earth as Leras's body. That would be the same "body" (cognitive shadow in the cognitive realm until it is destroyed at last) that Kelsier interacts with in Secret History, he himself being a cognitive shadow. If this is the case, does it imply that a cognitive shadow still retains connection to a physical body somehow?

4) If shades are cognitive shadows (implied in Secret History?), and shades are warded away by silver, and Vessel is a cognitive shadow (either always or just when it loses it's Shard), it could make sense that silver would be Allomantically inert, as it would have negative interactions with Preservation? How far afield have I gotten here?

5) How bad of a job have I done putting this in the right forum?

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 Going from memory here...

1. Sounds good to me.

2. There is no point when a Vessel is so weak that they have to give up the Shard.

3. Leras had a connection to a physical body because he got into the Cognitive Realm by ascending.  His body was incorporated into Preservation's cognitive form, much like Kelsier sees with Ati's body in Ruin.  Most cognitive shadows don't have bodies because they got into the Cognitive Realm by dying.

4.  We have a WoB that Shades are indeed Cognitive Shadows.  We don't know as of yet why Silver of all things repels Shades.  However, I don't think Brandon would make silver repel Preservation, because in an early draft of Mistborn silver was an allomantic metal instead of tin.  It had to be switched because pewter is an alloy of tin, not silver.

5.  You're nearly there.  Because your theory has Secret History spoilers, it needs to be in the spoiler board for SH, which is a subforum off of this main Mistborn forum.

 You put a lot of effort into that research.  Have an upvote!

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6 hours ago, Elenion said:

 Going from memory here...

1. Sounds good to me.

2. There is no point when a Vessel is so weak that they have to give up the Shard.

3. Leras had a connection to a physical body because he got into the Cognitive Realm by ascending.  His body was incorporated into Preservation's cognitive form, much like Kelsier sees with Ati's body in Ruin.  Most cognitive shadows don't have bodies because they got into the Cognitive Realm by dying.

4.  We have a WoB that Shades are indeed Cognitive Shadows.  We don't know as of yet why Silver of all things repels Shades.  However, I don't think Brandon would make silver repel Preservation, because in an early draft of Mistborn silver was an allomantic metal instead of tin.  It had to be switched because pewter is an alloy of tin, not silver.

5.  You're nearly there.  Because your theory has Secret History spoilers, it needs to be in the spoiler board for SH, which is a subforum off of this main Mistborn forum.

 You put a lot of effort into that research.  Have an upvote!

Actually, Cognitive Shadows technically are connected to a body, because they are formed after someone on Threnody dies. But just a remnant, if that makes sense. Also, @Palladia while it may seem that way with Preservation as well(being a Shadow), he is not, because having the Shard allows him to keep that connection with his physical body. But you are correct when you say it's only part of him. At the end of SH, he is so weak, he can't even be everywhere at the same time.

Good job! Have an upvote!

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/3/2017 at 6:25 AM, Palladia said:

1) It seems that "the shadow" is refering to the "sliver" that is left of Preservation's mind (referred to in the previous sentence). Shadow + Mind = Cognitive Shadow. I'm noting this link somewhat pedantically, because I think one could say that the second speaker wasn't referring to the Mind anymore, but I think that the juxtaposition makes my reading sensible.

I don't get what you want to say here. Leras was fully living there....it was just like a men mental incapacited and with an high dose of venom in his veign. Fully living but just for a while.

On 9/3/2017 at 6:25 AM, Palladia said:

2) If that's true, is the implication here that when a Vessel is sufficiently weakened, to the point that they must give up their Shard and become a Sliver, they would default to a cognitive shadow (I guess assuming they remain in the cognitive realm)?

Leras was  in his worst and still retain the Shard...So I don't think weakning a Shard could force him to gave up.

Anyway a Sliver is to default able to become a Cognitive Shadow upon death (if he choose this path)

On 9/3/2017 at 6:25 AM, Palladia said:

3) Based on the nearby plot of HoA, I assume that the "image" being discussed is what eventually falls to earth as Leras's body. That would be the same "body" (cognitive shadow in the cognitive realm until it is destroyed at last) that Kelsier interacts with in Secret History, he himself being a cognitive shadow. If this is the case, does it imply that a cognitive shadow still retains connection to a physical body somehow?

The body who fall on the earth is indeed Leras's body (same thing happen to Ati's one in the ending) but Leras's body wasn't the Rappresentation we saw of him in the whole SH (you may also notice how Leras projects himself and multiple bodies at once). We don't know where the Vessels' body are stored but probably they are in the Spiritual Realm or Spread among the Shard

On 9/3/2017 at 6:25 AM, Palladia said:

4) If shades are cognitive shadows (implied in Secret History?), and shades are warded away by silver, and Vessel is a cognitive shadow (either always or just when it loses it's Shard), it could make sense that silver would be Allomantically inert, as it would have negative interactions with Preservation? How far afield have I gotten here?

The Shades are indeed a weird kind of Cognitive Shadows not aware than the standard ones.

Vessels again are not Cognitive Shadows (or to be more precise they have not to be a Cognitive Shadow because a Cognitive Shadow could become a Vessel) and indeed we have no prove all the Cosmere's Silver shares the features of Therenody's one (there are some strong clue about Therenody's one to be special).

Silver is Allomantically intert in the same way Platinum, Titanium or Mercury are. It is not like the Alluminium with its weirdness.

On 9/3/2017 at 1:30 PM, Captains Domon said:

Actually, Cognitive Shadows technically are connected to a body, because they are formed after someone on Threnody dies. But just a remnant, if that makes sense.

Nope, you become a Cognitive Shadow after your ties to the pysical are cutted. This is the true moment when you "die" in the Cosmere. Before this moment everyone with Healing propriety could fix you. After that moment you are really dead and unless you become a Cognitive Shadow replacing your Soul with Investiture...You will soon reach the Beyond.

 

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18 hours ago, Yata said:

indeed we have no prove all the Cosmere's Silver shares the features of Therenody's one (there are some strong clue about Therenody's one to be special).

Here to just say I asked about that in Warsaw signing and got a RAFO. 

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