20170306 - The Seeds of Dissolution - Ch3 v2 - Mandamon - 3448

[Mandamon]

Hello all,
Here is a new version of chapter 3. The last bit is split off into its own chapter and I've put a little more into Origon's development.

Looking for:
-Does Origon work better as a character?
-Does this chapter have a better arc?
-Anything else you see

[Eagle of the Forest Path]

Expanding more on O.'s thoughts and observations is helping to give him more depth as a character, as do the gestures you've added here and there, like tapping his robe etc. (he's still not likable, but I think that's what you're going for).

The arc is much better: not immediately dragging the (possibly deranged) stranger in front of the ruling council makes a lot more sense IMO. It's still a bit info-dumpy, considering that S. is supposed to be a quivering phobic mess for most of the chapter. Any segment introducing a new world to an outsider character is going to be expository, but it feels a bit off to do that in some alley with a person who needs medical magic to function outdoors. 

That said, the only exposition that feels forced is the stuff about the Ari. Both O. and R. clearly still believe S. is an emigrant Meth. (or that's how I read it) so the theory that he's actually an Ari. came a bit out of nowhere for me.

I believe the changes you've made here are going to make it easier for you to move the story forward without it feeling rushed, and I'm curious (and eager) to read more.

 

[kais]

I don't know if you've edited since the last time I read, so I'll head in anyway.

Overall

Ah, fungus. Fungus. Fungus. Fungus.

As I go

- I still don't understand why Rilan hates her dress. If you're going to talk about her wanting to rip it off, I need context

- end of page two: I think I've realized why the world building remains vague. I need like one really solid memory from Origon about the space shuttle thing. A flashback or something super substantial. Ground me in the history so I can be on the same page

- page six: they're in a wooden alley? Gross. That takes the potential smell to a whole new level. Do they use these for growing the fungus they serve at Mushrooms and Spice? Cause a wet, wood alley is growing all kinds of things. You let that go too long and you know what you get? A planet full of sentient fungi. And you know how that turns out.

- page seven: a giant rotting fungus? They build houses out of it? So, one that fruits something woody.... how about a ganoderma of some form? That's pretty well known, easy to carve, and perennial. You could call it a 'conk', generally. Most people know what that is

- page eleven: Rilan permanently giving up part of her song to get Sam moving seems... that's a pretty heavy investment for some person who fell from the sky.

[Robinski]

Comments.

• “leverage into the Council” – sounded odd to me, compared say to ‘with’ or ‘on’.

• “It was hard to guess at M. expressions without the aid of the Nether” – where there is one humanoid looking at another, there must be two inputs; the natural instinct of the brain to interpret humanoid features, and then the N’s interpretation. Can the Nether detect lies and show actual feelings? I think not(!!) But why not?

• “The sooner he Sam was on his feet, the sooner Ori could start” – suggest for clarity.

• “The boy—young man, really” – excellent, I'm pleased. To me, this is very clear.

• “Sam looked back and forth at between them.”

• “as if Sam would have made his move then” – don’t follow how this fits.

• “It is not preferable, but it should work for the moment” – sounds off to me, compared to say ‘desirable’ or ‘recommended’

I feel I’m not very good at re-reads, because often, I don’t retain much impression of the original! Anyway, there is a lot of information being conveyed in this chapter, so any way you slice it I think it will not be one of the more dynamic chapters. You’re pushing info on setting; Arid; symphony; Ril’s abilities; space exploration – it’s going to be a lot to take in at the best of time, the only thing I can think of is to make it a short as possible, and really trim back on the exposition / internal dialogue as much as possible.

<R>

3 hours ago, kaisa said:

they're in a wooden alley? Gross.

Yeah, this bugged me, but apparently not enough to mention it in main comments! An alley between wooden walls... Dunno.

3 hours ago, kaisa said:

that's a pretty heavy investment

Yeah - like what, a thousandth, 0.00001% There have been times where the investment has been substantial and harmful, like Ori's on the moon. I agree some kind of distinction would be good here. Like theoretically permanent, but barely noticeable, something quantifiable for the reader.

[Mandamon]

Thanks to @Eagle of the Forest Path, @kaisa, and @Robinski !

On 3/6/2017 at 8:20 AM, Eagle of the Forest Path said:

That said, the only exposition that feels forced is the stuff about the Ari. Both O. and R. clearly still believe S. is an emigrant Meth. (or that's how I read it) so the theory that he's actually an Ari. came a bit out of nowhere for me.

 

5 hours ago, Robinski said:

there is a lot of information being conveyed in this chapter, so any way you slice it I think it will not be one of the more dynamic chapters

Yes and yes. I think there's always going to be a bit of an infodump near the beginning, but sounds like it's working a little better. I'll keep chopping away at it.

9 hours ago, kaisa said:

I think I've realized why the world building remains vague. I need like one really solid memory from Origon about the space shuttle thing. A flashback or something super substantial. Ground me in the history so I can be on the same page

I'm struggling with this a little, as Origon and the space shuttle is the second story in Merchants and Maji. I don't want people to have to read it before this, but I also don't want to go over every point. I'm trying to balance between reminding readers and giving enough info for new ones. I think a flashback would be too much, but maybe I can do a sentence or so about what he was feeling at the time?

9 hours ago, kaisa said:

You let that go too long and you know what you get? A planet full of sentient fungi. And you know how that turns out.

Ah-heh.  This is actually the premise for a Sci-Fi story I have outlined, not related to the Dissolutionverse. A bunch of colonists have to carve out a home on a planet with a hive-mind sentient fungus. Gender and body morphing/hybridization ensue.

You know, I may have mushrooms on the brain a bit.

9 hours ago, kaisa said:

hey build houses out of it? So, one that fruits something woody.... how about a ganoderma of some form? That's pretty well known, easy to carve, and perennial. You could call it a 'conk', generally. Most people know what that is

I'll need to pick your brain on these points. The Lobath homeworld features mushroom construction, and they've brought some of the infrastructure to the Nether. Though I have no idea what a 'conk' is. *schedules research*

9 hours ago, kaisa said:

Rilan permanently giving up part of her song to get Sam moving seems...

 

5 hours ago, Robinski said:

There have been times where the investment has been substantial and harmful, like Ori's on the moon.

Yep. I think I need to scale this back a little. It's permanent, which the maji regard as wasteful (the ideal is a perfectly reversible physical reaction), but not too big of an investment for Rilan. I put in the staggering to show that it is a cost, but may need to rethink that to a slight headache or something.

[rdpulfer]

- I love Sam's response to space ships - and Origon's brief response.

- I also like their response to Sam's stories of their world . . . as equally unbelievable as magic is to Sam.

- I also like that the magic is treated like anxiety meds for Sam - a temporary solution.

- Overall, I like this chapter. I really like how Origon dismisses Sam's stories, and the tension between Origon and Rilan. 

[industrialistDragon]

I can't speak to changes from version to version, but here's what I have, meager though it is

 

Thoughts as i go....

Origon's kind of a jerk, lol.  But he's definitely a jerk of a kind I've seen before.  He comes off to me as a bit of a caricature, but not an unbearable one. the way he softens up once he finally cottons on to the fact that Sam Ain't From Around These Parts helps humanize him.

Rilan seems too level-headed to get taken up by groundless fears and speculation, I'm glad Ori shamed her down from it


Unfortunately, (or fortunately?) for most of what I've read of yours the main comment i have is just RAEBNC -- Read And Enjoyed But No Comment.  Is RAENBNC a thing here? I was in zines way back in the day and it was a common way of saying "I enjoy what you're doing and you should continue to do more, but I don't feel like I have anything constructive to add to the conversation about it right now"  :/ 

[Mandamon]

Thanks, @industrialistDragon!

 

12 hours ago, industrialistDragon said:

Unfortunately, (or fortunately?) for most of what I've read of yours the main comment i have is just RAEBNC -- Read And Enjoyed But No Comment.

Well, it's a thing now!

But that's actually a really good response. This is version 3 or 4 of this chapter (in this incarnation) so I hope I'm getting down to small problems at this point. Reading and Enjoying is my goal!