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The Coin?(BoM Spoilers)


Kered

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My minds pretty jumbled on this topic, so I was looking to see if I could get some help from you fine fellows. So, Hoid gives the coin to Wax. Wax sees the "Sovereign" by burning the metalmind. From Secret History and the description of the Sovereign is Kelsier. So my confusion is why Hoid is, in a way, helping Kelsier? When it's known Hoid and Kelsier don't get along. I've tried thinking of different reasonings as to why Hoid would pass the coin to Wax. Being one of the most intelligent characters in the cosmere, I can see Hoid knowing that Harmony has taken a special interest in Wax. Thus Hoid knowing that in giving the coin to Wax, he would trigger something that would have far reaching implications in the cosmere. I just can't see what they might be. Maybe Hoid wants Wax and Kelsier to have a showdown? Maybe Hoid thinks that Wax could inadvertently manipulate Kelsier into going along with his schemes? I honestly don't know. Anyone got any good theories on the subject? 

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Here's a useful recent WoB on the matter

Quote

QUESTION

I asked why Hoid gave the memory coin to Wax, what his motivation was (since it seemed to cast a more positive light on someone Hoid does not like), and

BRANDON SANDERSON

Brandon said he did it to correct a lie that was being perpetuated.

QUESTION

I said that I was still suspicious of Hoid,

BRANDON SANDERSON

to which he said I should be, as those two (Hoid and Kelsier) do not get along. He said that the memory uncovered a truth that Kelsier did not want to be known

So it's possible the lie he wanted to correct was simply that the Sovereign was TLR and he did it just to spite Kelsier. But I'm not sure Hoid is that spiteful, I suspect it was that it's important for the future of Scadrial/the wider Cosmere that play-makers are aware of it. 

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I on the other hand think that Hoid can be incredibly spiteful. He did after all tell Dalinar that he would let Roshar burn if he furthered his goals.

I think he would definitely do it just to expose the fact that Kelsier is still running around, if that is something Kelsier wanted to stay hidden. 

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6 hours ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

I on the other hand think that Hoid can be incredibly spiteful. He did after all tell Dalinar that he would let Roshar burn if he furthered his goals.

I think he would definitely do it just to expose the fact that Kelsier is still running around, if that is something Kelsier wanted to stay hidden. 

that first part wasn't spite. It was honesty. Brutal honesty, but honesty still. He may have done it to manipulate Dalinar though, seeing as Dal put's honesty in high esteem.

As for the second, perhaps it was spite.

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I prefer to think that it wasn't spite, but instead The lie that the TLR was still alive was dangerous to the rest of the Cosmere for some reason. If TLR was still alive it would mean that he succeeded in containing Ruin for another 1000 years. Maybe Hoid wants Odium to know that the shards have merged, It's been stated that Odium Is/would be (depending on when this takes place) concerned by Harmony. Perhaps Scadrial was Odium's next target and Hoid is trying to showcase just how much of a threat he would be up against.

Also, That's an absolutely awesome WoB. It's my favorite kind.

Edited by theuntaintedchild
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15 hours ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

I on the other hand think that Hoid can be incredibly spiteful. He did after all tell Dalinar that he would let Roshar burn if he furthered his goals.

That's basically the opposite of spite. Spite is about fulfilling a personal grudge. Here Hoid is saying, "I'm gonna do what I must, but it's nothing personal."

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Kelsier loves secrets, the fact that he's still around would be one hell of a secret (ie, he'd want to hide it just for the sake of keeping the secret) and on top of that it gives him a certain extra amount of freedom to act. Just to toss one idea out there, if Survivorists learned he was still around, he might have to start thinking about how they'll interpret his actions. He's perfectly aware by this point that he's not a god and needs to be more responsible. Well, as long as his own church doesn't know that he's still around he doesn't have to worry that everything he does is going to create new dogma.

To be Hoidishly flippant for a second, here's what he's got to worry about: 'The Survivor just sneezed on a Tuesday, we must declare this an unlucky day!'. Or worse 'The Survivor just stubbed his toe, death to rocks everywhere!' and then our favorite Horneater can never worldhop to Scadrial.

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  • 4 weeks later...

It's also possible that wasn't the secret. In fact, it almost certainly wasn't. Once the North and South really got to talking SOMEONE was bound to mention that the Sovereign had blond hair and scars on his arms. Oh, and told people to 'Survive.' At which point everyone figures it out.

Aside from that, I feel that Kell is still too arrogant to allow someone else, especially someone he hated, to get credit for something Kelsier did. All of which make me doubt that his existence is what he wanted to hide.

So what secret is hidden there... I honestly have no idea. I could very well be over thinking this, but it is worth noting that Wax drops the coin midway through the memory. We still don't know what happened after 'Survive.' It could be in the part of the memory we don't see. It's also VERY likely that it is something that will seem obvious in hindsight, but we would have trouble guessing before the reveal. (How many times has that happened already?)

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