Conquestor

Long Game 31: A World Without Vin

314 posts in this topic

7 hours ago, Jondesu said:

@DroughtBringer, I'll poke vote you in the name of the Contribution Crusade. Are you going to be active this game?

26 minutes ago, DroughtBringer said:

@Jondesu Yeah I am

This is also a problem.  Pretty much exactly what I'm talking about.  >.>

1 hour ago, randuir said:

One way to discourage this is to pair the 'poke-vote' with a question to the person you are voting for. To demonstrate: Straw (@Straw), what is your opinion on Elenion's insistence on a strict contribution crusade?

Very good.  This is an extremely good idea.  Thank you.

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Anyone got Kandra PMs yet?

 

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1 hour ago, Magestar said:

While I agree that a lynch purely based on purported inactivity isn't necessarily the best way to go, I don't think that a strict contribution crusade is a bad idea.  People don't like seeing there names in red; However, I'd say to everyone who wants to place votes that encourage activity, well founded suspicions/attacks tend to bring people out more than a simple poke vote.

In the spirit of ongoing discussion, Mage, would you defend your assertion that a strict contribution crusade isn't a bad idea? I'd reiterate that encouraging activity shouldn't be something we need to worry about, this game. With Ruin, the Skaa, Assassins, Coinshots and a lynch all capable of depleting the alive player list, and such a small game anyway, we really need to get the most information we can out of activity. Supporting a crusade draws attention from the game to those players who are inactive. It gives the 'crusader' a place to hide, it doesn't give us information from the targeted player, and it takes focus off those players we should be discussing.

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6 minutes ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

In the spirit of ongoing discussion, Mage, would you defend your assertion that a strict contribution crusade isn't a bad idea? I'd reiterate that encouraging activity shouldn't be something we need to worry about, this game. With Ruin, the Skaa, Assassins, Coinshots and a lynch all capable of depleting the alive player list, and such a small game anyway, we really need to get the most information we can out of activity. Supporting a crusade draws attention from the game to those players who are inactive. It gives the 'crusader' a place to hide, it doesn't give us information from the targeted player, and it takes focus off those players we should be discussing.

Encouraging activity is never a bad thing.  I'm not sure that a few people encouraging activity is a bad idea.  About the kills;  Are you saying that because kills tend to target actives, we need to grill them faster?  That makes sense, to an extent, but by that same logic inactives can just hide under their inactivity, and survive.  Which is why we need to hold inactives accountable as well.  As for the 'it doesn't give us information from the targeted player', Rand and I already covered that.  There's nothing wrong with encouraging activity, and there is also nothing wrong with your method.  I'm fairly certain they don't need to be mutually exclusive.

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4 minutes ago, Magestar said:

Encouraging activity is never a bad thing.  I'm not sure that a few people encouraging activity is a bad idea.  About the kills;  Are you saying that because kills tend to target actives, we need to grill them faster?  That makes sense, to an extent, but by that same logic inactives can just hide under their inactivity, and survive.  Which is why we need to hold inactives accountable as well.  As for the 'it doesn't give us information from the targeted player', Rand and I already covered that.  There's nothing wrong with encouraging activity, and there is also nothing wrong with your method.  I'm fairly certain they don't need to be mutually exclusive.

Encouraging activity is good, yes. A "strict contribution crusade" to me implies more than just a few players encouraging activity. I read it as a concerted effort to focus on placing votes for players who haven't been active.

I do not mean that we need to focus on "grilling the actives faster". I think that, particularly if the vigilante kills are used, this game has the potential to be very short. In a normal game, the village has a lot of time to gather information, and swing the information advantage away from the eliminators to allow informed analysis to take place. In this game, we're under much greater time pressure to generate that information, and so I argue that we should focus on having discussions about occurrences in the game, and thoughts on players' actions and arguments. Devoting material energy to discussing the crusade diminishes our ability to gather information in a reasonable space of time.

Rather than pokevoting players, and asking them a question whilst doing so (which is a marked improvement from just a vote), I would suggest that we instead try to engage players in the game as part of our regular conversations. 

In the spirit of this, @DroughtBringer, @Ecthelion III, what are your thoughts on the discussion Mage and I have been having?

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Dougal walked through the garden on the roof of his mansion. The place had been a study, once. That was before the mansion’s previous owner had had a little run-in with a Mistborn. Suffice to say, rebuilding the room afterwards had been a necessity. The walls around the garden where made from steeply sloping panes of glass, which allowed sunlight in, but kept the ash out. It wouldn’t have done for a man of Dougal’s status to be cleaning ash away, and he’d be damned before he let one of those clumsy Skaa ruin things up here.

He carefully dug away some earth next to a low plant, exposing several thick roots. With a quick cut of a small knife he cut several of the roots away, then placed them in a waiting bowl. The sap would relieve some of the pain in his joints. Then he moved on, watering some plants, harvesting others. Some had medicinal properties, like the roots he’d just harvested, though most merely made for flavourful seasoning of food, or excellent beverages could be made from them.

His steward was waiting for him as he descended the stairs back into the mansion proper. Dougal exchanged the tray stacked with herbs for that morning’s post. The Terrisman looked through the contents of the tray while Dougal quickly skimmed through the post. There were reports on his various business ventures, some correspondence with family in Fadrex, and an invitation to a ball in Keep venture, two days from now.

He sighed, then checked on the Steward’s work. The man had organized the different herbs and roots Dougal had harvested in orderly rows. One bowl containing some small mushrooms stood to the side. This didn’t surprise him, as it was the only herb from today’s harvest he hadn’t taught the steward about. The Terrisman offered the last bowl back to Dougal. “I assume you’ll process this yourself, my Lord?”  He asked.

Dougal considered for a moment, then shook his head. “Dry it for two days, then cut of the stalk. Grind the head into a fine powder. Make sure to clean your hands and workplace thoroughly afterward, and don’t breathe in any of the powder. Have it ready for me in a water-tight pouch when I leave for the Venture ball.” The Terrisman nodded his head, offering no comment on the instructions.

Dougal took the letters with him to his study as he considered whether he’d need to make any other arrangements for the ball.

If anyone wants to come and visit Lord Dougal, I'm sure he can make some room in his exceedingly buys schedule.

Anyway, back to game-related matters. @OrlokTsubodai has raised a good point about the number of kills. If I remember correctly, the elims get 1 kill per cycle as group, and Ruin also gets 1 kill per cycle. Then there are steel mistings (Of which the elims have 1, unless Kelsier isn't in the game) and assassins. That means that, even if there are no steel misting or assassins, we must expect 2-3 kills per cycle at the least. There are some deterrents that will likely limit the amount of vigilante kills in the early game, namely the hazekiller and the limited amount of vials of steel a steel misting starts with.

So, to sum up, there is one faction kill with the intent of eliminating nobles, one with the intent of eliminating Skaa and 1 specific noble, 2 active sources of vigilante kills (Steel misting and assassin) and 1 reactionary source of kills (hazekiller). I don't think we'll see any vigilante kills on cycle 1, apart from possibly Kelsiers steel, given the relatively limited knowledge of the Nobles at that point and the risk of hitting a hazekiller-protected target. It can go quickly in the latter cycles, though this also depends on how many thugs, gold ferrings, lurchers, steel ferrings and pewter ferrings we have.

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27 minutes ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

Encouraging activity is good, yes. A "strict contribution crusade" to me implies more than just a few players encouraging activity. I read it as a concerted effort to focus on placing votes for players who haven't been active.

I can see that.  I had interpreted it slightly differently, however, I can see where you're coming from, and a compromise such as you have suggested seems viable.  Encouraging players to join conversations such as this may be even more effective than asking them questions;  however, I don't think we should abstain from that.  It is a good idea to ask people questions to get them to participate, especially if you want their opinion on it.

27 minutes ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

I do not mean that we need to focus on "grilling the actives faster". I think that, particularly if the vigilante kills are used, this game has the potential to be very short. In a normal game, the village has a lot of time to gather information, and swing the information advantage away from the eliminators to allow informed analysis to take place. In this game, we're under much greater time pressure to generate that information, and so I argue that we should focus on having discussions about occurrences in the game, and thoughts on players' actions and arguments. Devoting material energy to discussing the crusade diminishes our ability to gather information in a reasonable space of time.

Ok.  That's not entirely different from what I was attempting to communicate.  Both amount to;  We have limited time, so we should attempt to gather information at a greater speed.  I agree.  But we still can't ignore the inactives.  Doing so has been fatal in previous games.

Edit;  Ninja'd by Rand.  

5 minutes ago, randuir said:

So, to sum up, there is one faction kill with the intent of eliminating nobles, one with the intent of eliminating Skaa and 1 specific noble, 2 active sources of vigilante kills (Steel misting and assassin) and 1 reactionary source of kills (hazekiller). I don't think we'll see any vigilante kills on cycle 1, apart from possibly Kelsiers steel, given the relatively limited knowledge of the Nobles at that point and the risk of hitting a hazekiller-protected target. It can go quickly in the latter cycles, though this also depends on how many thugs, gold ferrings, lurchers, steel ferrings and pewter ferrings we have.

I wouldn't be surprised if not all the roles are in the game.  Considering the possible number of kills, it would make sense that there would be an equal number of protect roles.

Edited by Magestar
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I'm still waking up from a long night, but I just wanted to retract my vote on DroughtBringer, of course, since he responded. I will put thought into my next vote since I think just about everyone has posted now. That said, after the first couple rounds, I will absolutely encourage getting rid of inactives anytime we don't have a strong suspicion to go on. I've been seeing clearly how much inactivity hurts the game, not just the town or the Elims specifically. I'm all in favor of trying to minimize that by encouraging activity, but also bringing down the hammer on those who really don't contribute despite mentions and votes. Hopefully there won't be many, if any, of those this game, but I'm not holding my breath.

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Orlok has a fair point in that we definitely do need to have some lynchings based on evidence, but I stand with Mage and Jon in that inactives have crippled previous games and so need to be dealt with in some manner.  Maybe we could use the lynch to kill actives based on evidence, and encourage vigilante roles to target inactives if they have no better suspicions.

Phatt still hasn't responded, so I'll leave my vote on him.

Someone earlier made a conjecture about elim team size.  I'm leaning toward there being three starting elims this game, because to attempt to convert a player Kelsier has to give up one of his metal actions, making it less likely that he'll be liberal with conversions.  Three starting elims would give them decent voting and action power off the bat and if Kelsier died early, while leaving them room for team growth due to conversions if Kelsier survives into the late game.

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Hmm... so what to say. Cause it's first turn I don't know on whom to vote *shrug* 

8 hours ago, randuir said:

Before the last part, I'd quickly like to give the Arinian Disclaimer: "I am not certain about any of the numbers to follow. If it seems like I'm stating something as fact, it is merely because I forgot a 'maybe' or a 'probably'."

Are you certain that you certain that you not certain? :huh:

5 hours ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

With all due respect, Elenion, I have to say I disagree vehemently with this suggestion. You are quite right that we have a newer and marginally less active player base, and that activity is something we should all try to do something about. However, this is a very small game, and there are two factions with kills, and two potential sources of vigilante kills, along with a lynch each cycle. I firmly believe that if the village has any chance at winning this, we need to get as much information as we can, as quickly as we can. 

A strict contribution crusade is an awful way to get information. It may keep more players present, but it eliminates the source of information gathering for the village. A credible lynch, based on evidence, forces players to defend themselves, and forces other players to defend them. This allows us to work out ties between players, or to catch contradictions in views. A lynch based on the contribution crusade, on the other hand, requires no more defence than raising one's hand and saying "I'm here, please don't lynch me". It may keep a couple more players around a little longer, but they won't have any information to work with, and with a game of this size with as many kills, I'm not terribly worried about inactivity anyway.

The last thing I'd like to point out is that the contribution crusade is an excellent thing to hide behind. It allows a player to appear as if they're contributing to the game, helping the village, whilst actually providing no views of their own, and so not exposing themselves to being caught. As such, I'm going to vote on Elenion.

I agree with you but from what I've seen there some tendency for people on first turn(not only on first turn) to advice contribution crusade or throw poke votes and from what I've seen that's not indicative for alignment. So chances for Len to be elim or villager equal. 

10 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

Before anyone poke-votes me, I'd like to tell everyone that I'm here, following the game, and plan to remain active ish :P

So. Who to lynch this turn? The turns are kinda long, so we don't need to rush on it. But lets get the discussion going. Not that there's much to discuss....I hate Day 1s 

 

You looks not extremly suspicious today. And that makes me suspicious of you ;)/

Green pie :P 

And RP:

Spoiler

* * *

Alrin sat in tavern and looked on sun through glass with wine in his hand. On sun that slowly moved to the horizon painting world in red tones. World of ash, world of red and black colors. This tavern was not like usual taverns in poor part of Luthadel this one was for nobles, they even called it’s not tavern but restaurant. He scratched wide scar that lay from his left cheek to neck then took big gulp of wine. Wine was beautiful, better than any other drink that he tasted in his life, honestly to say that was third time in his life when he tasted wine, and he thought that he can get used to it. Tavern was wide clear room with many tables and bar counter in center, all visitors were dressed in fancy outfits they chatted, laughed. But most incredible thing was that all building was absolutely clean without any spot of dirt of ash, it made him feel uncomfortable, he felt like he just stepped in another world. He was not scared but more accurate to say amazed by it “How so big building can be kept so clean” that was his main thought. Also this place felt too cold for him and chaotic rhythm of voices was so annoying. For Alrin usual thing was heat of  forge and silence interrupted only by sound of hammer hitting anvil.

 He looked in window again on orange sun and ash falling from sky and ended wine with one big gulp. Bottle of this wine cost enough to feed skaa family for month or even longer “What a waste" he thought but then another thought come “But I deserved it all” he scratched his scar again.

There was many rumors about him. Scion of House Tekiel about which no one heard before just appeared from nowhere.  Some rumors said that he was Mistborn who was kept in secret. Other rumors said that he was half-blooded, some people even heard some unbelievable thing like that Steel Ministry knew that he is half-blooded but they left him alive. There was even story that he directly worked on Lord Ruler and House Tekiel secretly was under his control cause their Lord done something that got him in God’s disfavor. Where there was truth in all this rumors only he knew it and that’s why all time people distracted him. They approached him trying to dig some information, but most of time he just silently ignored them. But that was much better then starve, sleep in small cold rooms full of ash.

But he deserved good life, he didn’t born under lucky star like all this nobles. He was one who built his way to good life, way for which he paid with his blood. Alrin still was looking in window but his sight became distant, visions of past consumed him.

* * *

13 years ago

 

He was only 12 years old when that happened.

That was day when something ended and that was the day when everything started. All world was darkness and pain, ash was falling from sky mixing with rain covering all world in black.  Alrin silently laid on street, without movement, his legs was broken his hands was broken maybe something else, blood flowed from his wounds just then to mix with rain and ash just to become dirt. But he survived, saved by skaa. Couple months he was just bag of broken bones and pain but he survived, thanks to mercy of that people. He lived and worked with skaa as one of them. That lasted only year dark simple life that repeats day by day.

But then they found him. Steel Inquisitors.

 

Edited by Arinian
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Diego observed the diners at their tables as he strummed. It was a side job, but all jobs are, at this restaurant. Same as always, upperclass nobles frolicking in their wealth while the skaa suffer. Diego, the quiet observer, philosopher, and guitarist. That was him.

Pablo smiled as he sang. It was a good day, right? Nothing too bad was out and about, the ash still fell, and the wine was good. Juan had procured some delicious peppers and made up his signature salsa, and that made him happy any day. His eyes swept the tables, winked at a pretty noblewoman, and fell upon a man by the window. That was not a noble, not at all. He was so startled-- he didn't show it, of course-- that he didn't notice the noblewoman blush. What was a man like that doing among nobles? He sang to Juan.

"See that man in the corner?"

"Who, that guy?"

"Si, him. Doesn't he look strange?"

"I don't know, he looks like a fine man to me. What, did he take your money or something?"

"No, no, he just looks out of place."

"Look, you can just talk to him after the song. But we need to finish this, okay? This is my favorite part," Juan sang.

Pablo gazed at the man. He had a rough disposition, looked like he had been through a lot. Those hard features, this was a fighting man. The bulge of his arm muscles... a blacksmith perhaps?

Juan glanced over at that man Pablo mentioned. He was out of the ordinary. I wonder what Diego thinks of him, he thought. Soon, the song was over, and the noble applauded. Juan grinned and waved and bowed, then put his guitar into its case and set it against the wall by Diego. Diego would watch it for him, as he always did. He nodded to Pablo, and they walked over to the man by the window. Suddenly, they were stopped. It was the noblewoman.

"Were you the one who winked at me?" She asked Juan.

Juan shook his head. "No, my lady, that was my brother, Pablo. Here he is."

"Who is this lady," Pablo hissed to Juan.

"The noblewoman."

"Oh... hello, good woman," Pablo said. Juan left the two of them to chat.

He took the chair opposite the man and placed his arm on the table. With his other hand, he fiddled with his mustache. The mustache was quite intimidating, he had found.

"So, who might you be, good man?"


@Arinian

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1 hour ago, Jondesu said:

I will put thought into my next vote since I think just about everyone has posted now. 

Actually, we're still missing @Amanuensis, @Szeth Son-Son Mallano and @Ecthelion III. I suspect Amanuensis is still busy writing the novella-sized final write-up for LG30, So I'm not too bothered by the fact he hasn't posted yet. And it still hasn't been 24 hours yet, so I'm not particularly afraid the other two are going to be afk.

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9 hours ago, randuir said:

Second, the metalurgists. There are unfortunately no metals that have only utility for the village. That having been said, I'd still attempt to get the most out of the role, if not from the start, then at least once you've found someone you're pretty sure is village who can act as stockpile ( @Elbereth, @Darkness Ascendant, @Conquestor, I assume you can't give metal vials to yourself as a metalurgist?). The reason for this is that it's going to be important for the village misting to remain stocked with metals at all times, as you'll never know when a game-winning vote comes down to whether someone still has some brass, zinc or copper left.

 

9 hours ago, randuir said:

Does this mean a metallurgist could go around figuring out who is and isn't a misting by just randomly tossing metal vials around and seeing which arrive?

So, DA wasn't quite correct here. You may give vials to anyone, whether they are a misting or not. This does include yourself. 

That said: here's how actions work. You may use one action per role that you have. So Kelsier can only do one conversion/metal action per turn. The Lord Ruler is essentially a Mistborn and a Feruchemist, so may use two. But say the Lord Ruler were also a Metallurgist - he could then use a Misting action, a Feruchemy action, and the Metallurgist action. The eliminator kill can be used in place of any role action. 

You may also pass one vial as a free action, if you wish (in addition to the Metallurgist action, if you have it). Any more passes must be used in place of a role action. 

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Good point, @randuir. I've never played with Szeth, but I'm not too worried about Aman and Ecth.

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50 minutes ago, Arinian said:

:huh:

You looks not extremly suspicious today. And that makes me suspicious of you ;)/

Green pie :P 

And RP:

  Reveal hidden contents

* * *

Alrin sat in tavern and looked on sun through glass with wine in his hand. On sun that slowly moved to the horizon painting world in red tones. World of ash, world of red and black colors. This tavern was not like usual taverns in poor part of Luthadel this one was for nobles, they even called it’s not tavern but restaurant. He scratched wide scar that lay from his left cheek to neck then took big gulp of wine. Wine was beautiful, better than any other drink that he tasted in his life, honestly to say that was third time in his life when he tasted wine, and he thought that he can get used to it. Tavern was wide clear room with many tables and bar counter in center, all visitors were dressed in fancy outfits they chatted, laughed. But most incredible thing was that all building was absolutely clean without any spot of dirt of ash, it made him feel uncomfortable, he felt like he just stepped in another world. He was not scared but more accurate to say amazed by it “How so big building can be kept so clean” that was his main thought. Also this place felt too cold for him and chaotic rhythm of voices was so annoying. For Alrin usual thing was heat of  forge and silence interrupted only by sound of hammer hitting anvil.

 He looked in window again on orange sun and ash falling from sky and ended wine with one big gulp. Bottle of this wine cost enough to feed skaa family for month or even longer “What a waste" he thought but then another thought come “But I deserved it all” he scratched his scar again.

There was many rumors about him. Scion of House Tekiel about which no one heard before just appeared from nowhere.  Some rumors said that he was Mistborn who was kept in secret. Other rumors said that he was half-blooded, some people even heard some unbelievable thing like that Steel Ministry knew that he is half-blooded but they left him alive. There was even story that he directly worked on Lord Ruler and House Tekiel secretly was under his control cause their Lord done something that got him in God’s disfavor. Where there was truth in all this rumors only he knew it and that’s why all time people distracted him. They approached him trying to dig some information, but most of time he just silently ignored them. But that was much better then starve, sleep in small cold rooms full of ash.

But he deserved good life, he didn’t born under lucky star like all this nobles. He was one who built his way to good life, way for which he paid with his blood. Alrin still was looking in window but his sight became distant, visions of past consumed him.

* * *

13 years ago

 

He was only 12 years old when that happened.

That was day when something ended and that was the day when everything started. All world was darkness and pain, ash was falling from sky mixing with rain covering all world in black.  Alrin silently laid on street, without movement, his legs was broken his hands was broken maybe something else, blood flowed from his wounds just then to mix with rain and ash just to become dirt. But he survived, saved by skaa. Couple months he was just bag of broken bones and pain but he survived, thanks to mercy of that people. He lived and worked with skaa as one of them. That lasted only year dark simple life that repeats day by day.

But then they found him. Steel Inquisitors.

 

Green pie. :P

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Remart stomped into the pub and winced at the sound of the Mariachi band that was playing. They were pretty good as far as those types of bands went; he just couldn't stand the style of music. By the time he sat down and ordered an ale and a whole roast duck, however, they'd stopped eating.

Anyone that had known Remart before would have hardly recognized him now.  He'd disappeared for a while, and had almost no memory of his time away (just a fuzzy recollection of...cats? Ale?), but he's returned nearly 200 pounds lighter, and had managed to keep his weight to a healthy 160 pounds. He looked fit, not muscled or toned, but healthy.  No one could quite explain it, and he'd chosen not to reveal the secret so far.

Inside of his metal peg leg, which had become synonymous with Remart's name, he had a new core made of a metal he'd learned was called bendalloy. Very few knew of its existence, and fewer knew what it did, but having discovered he was a Subsumer, able to store his food intake in a bendalloy metalmind, he'd had the extremely valuable core installed in his leg, and now he could eat as much as he liked, and his weight remained constant. Rusts, he never even felt full unless he wanted to, though it was such a good feeling he often chose to feel full. Even when he didn't have any food around. Which was handy.


Okay, so I'm not a bendalloy ferring for the game itself, obviously, but it was such a tempting choice for Remart's character I had to do it. This is just a setup, but if anyone wants to approach, you'll get a gruff answer and some terse conversation.

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I was scanning back over the thread and noticed that Phatt did post; I just missed it. And since we've already tagged the remaining inactives, voting on them is a moot point, unless they don't show up by the end of the Day.

 

Here's my role advice. If you think there's a better way to play your role, go ahead and play it that way. This is intended to help newer players who aren't sure how to use their role to good effect:

Preservation: Don't claim to anyone, even in PMs, because of Ruin's spying ability. Giving roles is beneficial as long as the role doesn't end up going to an elim, so while it's predictable I'd suggest keeping the roles among players that are generally trusted. Giving a role to yourself and then using it is also a viable option, but because of the action necessary to use the granted role you can only do that every other round.

Ruin: Pretty self-explanatory. You can use PM scanning to find suspicious players and then kill them the next cycle, or you can play yourself as a vigilante and use your kill every round.

Part-Skaa: I've run afoul of the unwritten SE rules regarding traitor roles before, so here's my tip: just play like a standard Noble unless you're converted.

Metallurgist: Find a player with a powerful role (like Coinshot) and fuel them with as many vials as they need, stockpiling some for yourself until you find a player to fuel. If you can get a Kandra contact, I'd suggest role-swapping in order to find the best players to fuel.

Kandra: Keep PMs up and going as much as possible. Information exchange is critical in coordinating actions, and in PMs coordination can be done where the Skaa can't listen in.

TLR: Stockpile Feruchemical charges at the beginning of the game, when you're not as likely to be attacked, and then use them generously in the late-game. Focus primarily on storing protection actions and kills, because these are the most critical in the late game. Use Allomancy at your discretion.

Assassins/Coinshots: If you have suspicions about a player, kill them. If you aren't sure who to kill and you don't want to run the risk of killing an active villager, killing in inactive is a safe bet because they aren't participating anyway.

Hazekillers: Protect someone every night, focusing on players that are contributing. Because we heavily outnumber the Skaa, a 1 to 1 trade is good for us and bad for them.

Lurcher: This only protects from the Steel kill, not the Skaa kill, so it's not as useful as most other protects. Still use it, but on players whom Kelsier might be tempted to use Steel on.

Tineye: Scan actions every cycle, looking for players who have killed others. Then, contact them in PMs and ask for a role-claim. If they claim a role that's not a vigilante kill role, then they're a lying Skaa. If they claim vig-kill, keep a sharp eye on them. Even if you don't spot a kill, keep collecting information on who did what.

Thug: This is probably best to use against lynches, because you know that they're coming. It's better to waste a lynch than lose a villager. The downside to this is Kelsier may false-claim Pewter to get justification for dodging the lynch, but I haven't thought of a better way to use Pewter.

Soother/Rioter: Manipulate votes according to your own suspicions. If you aren't suspicious of anyone, manipulate a vote that doesn't matter in order to announce that you're there.

Smoker: Copper is good to protect from elim vote-manip, but can also block village scans. Usually when I play Copper I Smoke someone every cycle, but I've seen multiple good strategies done with it in previous games.

Seeker: This won't pick up elim-kills, but could be used in conjunction with a Metallurgist to set up a supply-chain. Just keep scanning people and collecting information.

All Ferrings: Store attributes in the early-game where you're less likely to be attacked or hit an elim target, and then begin to use up your stores as the number of players dwindle.The exceptions are Zinc, Bronze, and Tin, whom I suggest store/tap every other round.

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Now we're only missing two players :D probably a record

I'll get a post down once I analyze better. Also, to quote Phatt, " I'm going to wait to vote to encourage more discussion.  "

Actually, wait. That logic sounds a bit dubious, don't you think, Phattemer? I'm going to vote on you, hopefully this doesn't discourage discussion by me voting.

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Two more clarifications:

1. Part Skaa do not know that they are. 

2. America will be experiencing the sad event known as Daylight Savings Time this weekend. Therefore, rollover will be an hour earlier for all non-Americans. (I don't know if the countdown timer accounted for that or not.) It'll now be midnight GMT.

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33 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

Two more clarifications:

1. Part Skaa do not know that they are. 

Any noble could be part-skaa? Does this mean Preservation or TLR could be converted? That's a scary thought. Of course, if that were so, I suppose it would make things easier for Ruin?

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2 hours ago, randuir said:
 
 
 
 
 

Actually, we're still missing @Amanuensis, @Szeth Son-Son Mallano and @Ecthelion III. I suspect Amanuensis is still busy writing the novella-sized final write-up for LG30, So I'm not too bothered by the fact he hasn't posted yet. And it still hasn't been 24 hours yet, so I'm not particularly afraid the other two are going to be afk.

I'm here (kind of). I'm actually feeling under the weather (not from drinking this time, I promise), so my head's not in the right place right now to make progress on the LG30 finale in a way I think it deserves. While lying in bed hating life, I've also been binge reading Worm, because like an analogy I made on the discord channel we have for Worm readers, the story is a lot like a bag of potato chips in that it's very easy to tell yourself "just one more chip" (chapter) and next thing you know you're halfway through the bag (book) and you've no longer the self-control to stop.

That said, I'm not sure how much analysis I can contribute right now, let alone if it would even be helpful. I will say that right now, on the first day, the Contribution Crusade isn't worth being implemented yet. I don't feel up to thoroughly explaining my perspective on it, but I will say that I feel we need more evidence of inactivity than a lack of posting in 24 hours to make any accurate judgments on a player's involvement in the game, and whether or not they should be removed solely for that reason. If someone's gone for several turns, sure, but I believe we all deserve a little slack.

As for the rest that's been discussed... poke votes. I don't like them, mostly because of their inefficiency. I don't believe they accomplish much, as voting is most useful when it applies genuine pressure on the target, or when it forces bystanders to advocate or oppose the death of the target. Even a player deciding to remain neutral or not comment on it at all can be telling.

So, in the spirit of that...

Pauses to quickly look over the previous votes...

Elenion voted for both SB and phatt for CC reasons, so nothing particular to read from that until we know his alignment. If he's a villager, than he'd just be genuinely poke voting. If he's an eliminator, then, well, there could be a lot of motives, but honestly if he died today, there'd be not enough interactions between him and other players to analyze what his intent was, exactly. So not very useful in the long run. I haven't yet read his role advice so I can't say for sure if there's some underlying intent there. I'll probably attempt that later, when my head is in a better place. Regardless, as much as I agree with Orlok's arguments regarding the Contribution Crusade, I don't feel like voting for Len is worth it. For now my gut is saying he's village, anyway, not that gut isn't infallible, or that I've really thought too hard on this.

SB's vote on Magestar is a pure poke vote. Same conclusion as with Len's. Unlike Len, though, I would vote for him because he hasn't done much else to participate since, if anything at all (off the top of my head).

Already said my piece on Orlok's vote, really. I see why he voted for Len and I can agree with it. Need some sparks to ignite a fire. But while my gut is also telling me Orlok is a villager, it doesn't mean I feel the need to follow his lead.

Magestar. Hm. His participation in the discussion gives me good vibes, too. So at the very least, I will cross him off my list of people to suspect. For now.

I'm glad that Ecth pointed out the fallacy in one of phatt's statements, though I don't think he made as big deal out of it as it deserves. So I'll go ahead and quote the exact post now, and accompany it with a vote of my own.

7 hours ago, phattemer said:

Yes, I'm here. While I do agree with Orlok's reasoning, I'm going to wait to vote to encourage more discussion. 

Phattemer. Can you explain to me exactly how waiting to vote = encouraging discussion? It's not like voting on someone causes other players not to respond, and it also doesn't help discussion if that sentence is all you say before you disappear. Your actions don't match your implied desires, and that confuses me. @phattemer

 

Vote Tally

(0) Silverblade5Elenion

(1) Magestar: Silverblade5

(2) phattemerElenionEcthelion IIIAmanuensis

(1) ElenionOrlokTsubodai

 

It should also be noted that Jondesu retracted a vote for Drought, though he never put Drought's name in red, only '@mentioned' him with a "I'll poke vote you in the name of the Contribution Crusade."

Which reminds me. Not going to talk as much about this as I should, but given that most games, the players who would bring up this sort of thing are dead by the time it's relevant, please make sure you constantly check back through old turns every time new information is revealed. I've seen games recently where villagers could discover the identities of the eliminators fairly easily if they just revisited old discussions (and even just tallies) with the knowledge of a player's alignment. I'm not saying any of these votes are particularly important, but there's always a potential there is.

I will try to RP at some point in this game, as I have a few ideas regarding Neer, but I won't make any promises I can't keep. At least until I finish the LG30 finale.

EDIT: Leave it to me to write a post this long when I started it off trying to be terse >>

Edited by Amanuensis
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I was referring to how in some cases a bandwagon can be formed early on in a cycle, which leads people to want to wait for the results of it before talking more. You're right that that is not likely to happen on D1.

Any Kandra, please contact me.

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42 minutes ago, phattemer said:
 
 
 
 

I was referring to how in some cases a bandwagon can be formed early on in a cycle, which leads people to want to wait for the results of it before talking more. You're right that that is not likely to happen on D1.

Well, I don't think I actually made a point about it not being likely to happen on D1, but I'm glad you admit some amount of fault in the initial logic. That being said, the inherent problem with bandwagons is players not thinking for themselves, in my opinion, not a stall in discussion. Besides, I'd rather see a bandwagon than a bunch of poke votes and no votes any day, as bandwagons have a lot more potential to reveal useful information. Additionally, I'd argue that the problem you're addressing isn't the bandwagons, but the fact players would rather wait around for information than actively pursue it. It really isn't too different than a game of follow the cop if we all just wait around for answers, except it's even more likely the elims will be able to take advantage of our silence if there's no genuine reason for it, therefore I think that's the issue worth addressing.

I'm also glad you responded as fast as you did (I'm assuming it's because of the mention, though I will record it here and now that between the time I posted and the time Phatt did, I only saw one player, Straw, viewing the thread. Thus if phatt turns out an eliminator, it might be possible Straw saw the vote and gave his teammate a heads up). Regardless, I am going to keep my vote on you, mostly because that's the second time you've advocated more discussion without making a significant effort to help perpetuate it.

Edited by Amanuensis
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Magestar

I really can't think of much to comment on, save that after skimming Elenion's advice, I'm not seeing anything  inherently bad about it. I have a good gut read on him currently.

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4 hours ago, Hemalurgic_Headshot said:

Diego observed the diners at their tables as he strummed. It was a side job, but all jobs are, at this restaurant. Same as always, upperclass nobles frolicking in their wealth while the skaa suffer. Diego, the quiet observer, philosopher, and guitarist. That was him.

Pablo smiled as he sang. It was a good day, right? Nothing too bad was out and about, the ash still fell, and the wine was good. Juan had procured some delicious peppers and made up his signature salsa, and that made him happy any day. His eyes swept the tables, winked at a pretty noblewoman, and fell upon a man by the window. That was not a noble, not at all. He was so startled-- he didn't show it, of course-- that he didn't notice the noblewoman blush. What was a man like that doing among nobles? He sang to Juan.

"See that man in the corner?"

"Who, that guy?"

"Si, him. Doesn't he look strange?"

"I don't know, he looks like a fine man to me. What, did he take your money or something?"

"No, no, he just looks out of place."

"Look, you can just talk to him after the song. But we need to finish this, okay? This is my favorite part," Juan sang.

Pablo gazed at the man. He had a rough disposition, looked like he had been through a lot. Those hard features, this was a fighting man. The bulge of his arm muscles... a blacksmith perhaps?

Juan glanced over at that man Pablo mentioned. He was out of the ordinary. I wonder what Diego thinks of him, he thought. Soon, the song was over, and the noble applauded. Juan grinned and waved and bowed, then put his guitar into its case and set it against the wall by Diego. Diego would watch it for him, as he always did. He nodded to Pablo, and they walked over to the man by the window. Suddenly, they were stopped. It was the noblewoman.

"Were you the one who winked at me?" She asked Juan.

Juan shook his head. "No, my lady, that was my brother, Pablo. Here he is."

"Who is this lady," Pablo hissed to Juan.

"The noblewoman."

"Oh... hello, good woman," Pablo said. Juan left the two of them to chat.

He took the chair opposite the man and placed his arm on the table. With his other hand, he fiddled with his mustache. The mustache was quite intimidating, he had found.

"So, who might you be, good man?"


@Arinian

Honestly I wanted to end pre-history. But okay :D

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Alrin poured wine in glass and just raised it to take a sip but he was interrupted. That was one of musicians which took a seat on opposite side of table (honestly Alrin was so deep in his thoughts that he noticed that there was music only after they ended to play).

Musician fiddled with his mustache and then asked.

“So, who might you be, good man?”

Alrin sighed he was so bored by questions. But man on the other side looked not like all this nobles and he sounded genuinely interested. So he decided to give a chance to musician.

“Alrin. My name is Alrin. But you will hear nothing more from me until I will know your name” he said.

Edited by Arinian
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