Hoid and the Bead

[Hawkido]

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Technical nitpick, but last I looked, he left it in Jah Keved.

Doh! teach me to post from memory.  But where is Urithiru?  Szeth knows where and is shown visiting the place at least twice in the series, and if he wishes to keep that black sphere from other's hands where else would you hide it except a place that you are pretty sureonly he, in his mind, can get to.  If it is in Jah Keved, then Hah! Otherwise, thanks for the correction.

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Well, the "he is indeed an Allomancer" would be what says he had to alloy it with a Mistborn metal, but we've assumed at least twice that he didn't use all of it... Also, given the definition of alloying, I'm not sure it would work with the sphere.

Well, that whole branch of my thought was based upon the supposition of the OP (which I don't follow, but thought it was interesting enough that I want to play with LiquidBlue's thought, so have a cookie OP!), The section where Szeth says he hid the Sphere, mentions a story by his drunk Oath-Stone holder where he claims he stole a black glowing Sphere from the NightMother.  Perhaps, Gavilar did the same, or this drunkard (Took was his name, in case there is a later mention in the series, as we are promised King G viewpoints at a later time) was with Gavilar's retinue when King G acquired his black sphere and Took creatively adapted the story to give it more "Pub Appeal".  As to Whether you can alloy it, we just don't know enough about the black sphere and shardic mixing using the Lerasium bead.

Another thought:  It seems to me that Honor died before the current batch of humans (humalikes counting Amians, if the Amians aren't a pure cultivation species that even predates the Honor humans, which I kinda think they are) as there is the story of a Womanly being using a stone to birth 10 peoples with her dead lover's seed.  That Places Honor's death many many thousands of years in the past... way before the recreance, having trouble finding that quote right now, not getting the word search close enough to it, will edit with the quote when I find it, if HighLord HyperFingers doesn't beat me to it)

Another Another Thought:  If Honor and Odium Combined would the result be Justice?  That would be righteous anger would it not?

Edited March 3, 2017 by Hawkido
Quoting Flippity-Flap

[Mason Wheeler]

@Hawkido Umm... I didn't say any of those things.

[Hawkido]

10 hours ago, Mason Wheeler said:

@Hawkido Umm... I didn't say any of those things.

Wow, I just saw what you are talking about... Somehow I really goofed the quoting on that post... I'll see if I can fix it.  Thanks for pointing it out.

[Mason Wheeler]

1 hour ago, Hawkido said:

Wow, I just saw what you are talking about... Somehow I really goofed the quoting on that post... I'll see if I can fix it.  Thanks for pointing it out.

Yeah, figured that's what happened.

[The One Who Connects]

On 3/2/2017 at 10:55 AM, Hawkido said:

But where is Urithiru?  [..]  If it is in Jah Keved, then Hah!

It's not in Jah Keved.

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“Though many wished Urithiru to be built in Alethela, it was obvious that it could not be. And so it was that we asked for it to be placed westward, in the place nearest to Honor.”   -Chapter 35 Epigraph

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By the time of the Era of Solitude, it had become the kingdom of Alethkar. During this transition, Alethela lost territory to Jah Keved, but gained some in the north from Rishir, and in the southeast from Natanatan.   -Coppermind Article

Modern Day Jah Keved was included in ancient Alethela, where Urithiru is on the record as having not been built within.

[Hawkido]

11 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

It's not in Jah Keved.

Modern Day Jah Keved was included in ancient Alethela, where Urithiru is on the record as having not been built within.

I was actually thinking in/near the horneather peaks which were just outside the border with Alethela, and which might house the Honor Pool, but either way was trying to make a joke at my mistake about where Szeth said he left it, as I didn't look it up before posting.  But regardless, I believe Hoid has it and that is the element he spoke of in the letter.

Silver Kingdoms map

Edited March 5, 2017 by Hawkido

[Landis963]

On Saturday, March 04, 2017 at 7:50 PM, Hawkido said:

I was actually thinking in/near the horneather peaks which were just outside the border with Alethela, and which might house the Honor Pool, but either way was trying to make a joke at my mistake about where Szeth said he left it, as I didn't look it up before posting.  But regardless, I believe Hoid has it and that is the element he spoke of in the letter.

Silver Kingdoms map

Urithiru is actually in that central mountain range, as evidenced from Shallan's dialogue just before running into Mraize.   In addition, details on Szeth and Kaladin's duel suggest that Szeth was headed in that direction before Kaladin intervened.  (Szeth recognized the Oathgate and immediately lashed himself west, and continued to ride the storm directly forward until the duel ended).  The Horneater peaks are the location of a known perpendicularity, but they are also the location where Rock's people live, and they would notice a big storm-off fortress gracing a nearby mountain peak.  

The element, on the other hand, is a spoiler for the Mistborn series: 

Spoiler

It's referring to "lerasium," which is Preservation's metal much like the Honorblades are Honor's metal.  It works differently due to how magic works on Scadrial, and gives anyone who ingests it the ability to use Allomancy, one of the magic systems of Mistborn's world Scadrial.  Hoid has used some, and you can actually see him using Allomancy during one of Shallan's flashbacks.

 

[Mason Wheeler]

7 minutes ago, Landis963 said:

  Hide contents

Hoid has used some, and you can actually see him using Allomancy during one of Shallan's flashbacks.

 

You can infer that this is what's happening, though there's no solid indication as to which metal/power he used or who he used it on.

[legolasgalactica]

Where is the letter mentioned here so I can go back and read it again?

[Spoolofwhool]

9 minutes ago, legolasgalactica said:

Where is the letter mentioned here so I can go back and read it again?

Read it on the Coppermind

[LiquidBlue]

I am sure this has been noticed before, but it just struck me. Since learning that Hoid uses a feruchemical trick to know where interesting things are happening, I assumed that Hoid is a feruchemist. If he also used the bead to become a mistborn, then he would be as powerful as The Lord Ruler.

I've never really considered Hoid to be a magical powerhouse before. I guess because he never really shows it. As far as I can recall the only magical abilities he has shown are lightweaving, emotional allomancy, ability to use perpendicularities(which may not be a special ability, nut just require the right knowledge), and an off camera feruchemical "trick".

Given how old and well traveled, as well as he observed penchant for collecting various bits of investiture, it shouldn't be surprising that he has amassed an amazing amount of power.

[Mason Wheeler]

32 minutes ago, LiquidBlue said:

I am sure this has been noticed before, but it just struck me. Since learning that Hoid uses a feruchemical trick to know where interesting things are happening, I assumed that Hoid is a feruchemist. If he also used the bead to become a mistborn, then he would be as powerful as The Lord Ruler.

This comes back to something that's never really been explained AFAIK: What is the origin of feruchemy?  We know you can become an allomancer by taking Lerasium, but how does one become a feruchemist?

[The One Who Connects]

4 minutes ago, Mason Wheeler said:

This comes back to something that's never really been explained AFAIK: What is the origin of feruchemy?  We know you can become an allomancer by taking Lerasium, but how does one become a feruchemist?

"That's a RAFO"

[Spoolofwhool]

49 minutes ago, LiquidBlue said:

I am sure this has been noticed before, but it just struck me. Since learning that Hoid uses a feruchemical trick to know where interesting things are happening, I assumed that Hoid is a feruchemist. 

Based on another WoB, I think that Hoid isn't actually using feruchemy, just similar mechanics that some branches of feruchemy use, and the WoB which states that he is using feruchemy is just an incorrect paraphrase. My feeling is that Brandon said that he's using the mechanics that feruchemy uses, and the person just misinterpreted or forgot and wrote the WoB as him using feruchemy. That, or Brandon has changed his mind on the matter. 

[+Extesian]

19 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Based on another WoB, I think that Hoid isn't actually using feruchemy, just similar mechanics that some branches of feruchemy use, and the WoB which states that he is using feruchemy is just an incorrect paraphrase. My feeling is that Brandon said that he's using the mechanics that feruchemy uses, and the person just misinterpreted or forgot and wrote the WoB as him using feruchemy. That, or Brandon has changed his mind on the matter. 

I felt sure I'd seen a WoB stating he's not but after a thorough search I think I'm wrong. But we have these.

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IKE COCKRUM

Hoid is regularly around when important events take place. How does he know where to go?

BRANDON SANDERSON

He uses Feruchemy. Part of it that will show up in later books

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QUESTION

You've mentioned before that Hoid ends up where he needs to be.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, and usually without knowing why.

QUESTION

Is Chromium involved in that?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes. Well, he's not necessarily using Chromium, but the underlying mechanic, yes.

The first is from 2013 and I'm not convinced by it, i think it's paraphrased and may have been misinterpreted. The second casts doubt. But then we have this from the very latest signing.

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The Flash: Hoid. Does he have more unkeyed metalminds?
A: Hoid has access to lots of different things, so, yes he does

So that says to me he probably has some feruchemy unless he has them just in case. I'm still not convinced but I'm now leaning towards him being a feruchemist, or at least ferting.

And now I think about it the WoB I was thinking of is that he doesn't have hemalurgy.

[Weltall]

@Extesian I know terminology around the Southerners technology is a bit imprecise right now but in that answer I think he's talking about a metalmind anyone can access, rather than one that anyone with the right Feruchemical power can use. Mostly because 'more unkeyed metalminds' implies that the questioner was thinking Hoid already possesses such a thing and the only one we know about is the Coppermind coin which anyone can use, and Brandon's response suggests that's how he interpreted the question as well. So I don't think that necessarily proves Hoid independently has Feruchemy. I mean, maybe he does but I don't think that WoB necessarily proves it either way.

[+Extesian]

2 minutes ago, Weltall said:

@Extesian I know terminology around the Southerners technology is a bit imprecise right now but in that answer I think he's talking about a metalmind anyone can access, rather than one that anyone with the right Feruchemical power can use. Mostly because 'more unkeyed metalminds' implies that the questioner was thinking Hoid already possesses such a thing and the only one we know about is the Coppermind coin which anyone can use, and Brandon's response suggests that's how he interpreted the question as well. So I don't think that necessarily proves Hoid independently has Feruchemy. I mean, maybe he does but I don't think that WoB necessarily proves it either way.

That's probably right, I do keep thinking of the universally usable ones as medallions and unkeyed as like the goldmind Wayne could use but you're probably right about this WoB referring to what I think of as medallions.

Either way though I don't think any WoBs prove anything. Mainly because of the older one I still lean towards him having acquired feruchemy but there's no proof either way. One reason he's unlikely to have it is simply that without having been spiked we know of no way he could be a feruchemist.

I think the evidence is very mixed for this issue. I won't be at all surprised if he doesn't, and I also won't be surprised if he does (though i would then desperately want to know HOW he does).