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The Importance of Being Sel


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What do you think is the importance of Sel in the cosmere? It obviously must hold some significance for Brandon to keep writing about the world, but I don't see how it could have anything to do with what is going down on Roshar and Scadrial. The society of Sel doesn't seem to have advanced forward enough to play a role in the interplanetary travel that is bound to happen on these worlds, especially with its magic being geographically based. Will the fight come to Sel? Or will Sel change by the time Elantris 2 comes out? I'd love to know what theories are out there. 

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I'm no expert on Sel, but I do know that its Shards and magic are tied closely with the Cognitive Realm. Something to do with both the Shards being pressed into the Cognitive after being splintered and the teleportation displayed by Raoden at the end of Elantris.

EDIT: This could tie closely with interstellar travel, as travel is supposedly easier in the Cognitive Realm

Edited by Jedal
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Speaking of the importance of Sel, what about the importance of ChayShan, one of my favorite magics? We barely know anything about it, except that it can be extremely powerful. Shuden was able to break the bones of Dakhor monks with a single blow, and he himself said that he was an amateur in the art. What could an expert do? Could ChayShan break shardplate? And what about the effects of ChayShan in other Realms? I think this is something to think about... maybe I should just make this a separate thread.

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Oooh, you bring up a good point about ChayShan. Shardplate seems to be the strongest thing in the cosmere right now (as far as I can recall), so I would love to see a fight between a shardbearer and someone who knows how to use ChayShan. Is ChayShan able to travel offworld, or is it still bound to Sel? We definitely need a sequel to Elantris that addresses this in some form. I can't imagine how powerful a full expert could be. We need a fight scene (or several)! 

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As for using ChayShan offworld, it may be possible in certain conditions. Consider a few things: One, Shuden still could use ChayShan even in Arelon, which is quite far away from JinDo. The Dor is quite confined geographically, because it is considerably weakened in Teod. Of course (looks at Sel map, and sees that JinDo isn't that far away), perhaps the distance isn't too great, but I think ChayShan isn't constrained by geography. Two, when Shuden was performing ChayShan, it seemed like he was struggling against some sort of invisible force. I'm thinking that this is because of the massive amount of Investiture that is hanging around in the Cognitive Realm from the Splintering of D&D. Think of it like trying to run in knee-high water- this is what Shuden is doing. So if this is correct, then ChayShan requires (or is hampered by?) massive amounts of Investiture. Now where can we find such Investiture elsewhere in the Cosmere? Highstorms (and maybe somewhere else, I don't know).

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I think the most important factor of Sel is the group that built Elantris. In previous WoBs I've seen it was literally build and then abandoned. This group had massive understanding of the Dor, Aons, and knowledge of a shard pool.

Also, you need to read the first three Mistborn followed by Secret History. If you've read those, you will know why.

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I wonder how this will all come to fruition. D&D have seemed quiet lately, though that might be more for lack of a sequel/contact with other planets than for any significant means. I could see ChayShan totally dominating in a highstorm if it requires a great amount of Investiture. 

@Naurock, I think there's something I'm missing here. I'm currently in the middle of Hero of Ages for the third time (rereading in order to connect events and people with Secret History) and the only thing I can possibly think of that connects Sel and Scadrial is the

Spoiler

Well of Ascension 

Am I correct, or is there something more I'm missing?

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5 hours ago, SylphrenaHonorSpren said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Well of Ascension 

Am I correct, or is there something more I'm missing?

Yes, you're missing something. 

Spoiler

The group that Kelsier steals the glowing orb, that allows him to take up Preservations shard, are Elantrians. When you reread it pay attention to their description; Silvery skin and glowing slightly. Then later one man says, "Devotion protect us."

 

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14 hours ago, SylphrenaHonorSpren said:

The society of Sel doesn't seem to have advanced forward enough to play a role in the interplanetary travel that is bound to happen on these worlds, especially with its magic being geographically based.

As for the societal advancement, Elantris is set somewhere around 1,000 years or so from Mistborn Era 1. Minor Mistborn Spoilers

Spoiler

During the entire millennia that Scadrial stagnated under the Final Empire, not really improving technologically, societally or medically, the

Society on Sel could have advanced quite a bit, especially with no Shardic conflict to... make things difficult for them. There's an additional ~330 years from Era 1 Mistborn the the Stormlight Archive. Elantris has nearly 1,500 years of advancement before the modern era of the other books.

Om a slightly different note, if you subscribe to any variant of the "Dor merged into a single Shard now" and/or the "Raoden will reform the Dor and ascend" theories, some of the magic systems could be a lot less difficult to manage off-world in the future

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Brandon has said that we need Elantris finished before we can get Era 3 Mistborn. Now, this could be for plot-specific reasons (theories like 'Trell is a reformed Dominion') or it could be more general Cosmere stuff that we need under our belt before starting the back half of Scadrial's story. Arcanum Unbounded implies that Elantrians by the era when Khriss writes her essays know a lot of interesting things that she'd give an arm and a leg (or maybe one of Nazh's arms and legs) to know so it could easily be that Sel's importance is more general than specific.

Perhaps something to do with how to hack different magic systems, as the Moon Scepter from Emperor's Soul is mentioned as being sort of like a Rosetta Stone for Selish symbols. The planet's location-dependent magic is absolutely ripe for a plotline where someone works out a specific hack (like how to use AonDor effectively in Fjordell) which could tell us something about how magic systems can generally be hacked to work on other planets. Brandon has generally been tight-lipped about that sort of thing so maybe he's planning on revealing it sooner than we think, in the Elantris sequels?

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@Naurock, I never realized that!!! I must have totally skimmed over it. Thank you.

@The One Who Connects, I didn't realize how early Elantris was in the grand scheme of the cosmere. With its Shards being rather peaceful, you're right, there's absolutely a chance for some major leaps in progress. I wonder how Elantrian society has changed since The Emperor's Soul. I would love a glimpse into that missing millennium! 

@Weltall, you bring up such good points! I could totally see Brandon writing a young character who happens to be able to hack the system. I seem to have missed a lot about Sel in Arcanum Unbounded. At least it gives me an excuse to read it again! :) 

I am so curious to see where and when these sequels will take place. Will it be relatively soon after The Emperor's Soul? Will it be further down the line? I think Sel seems to always be overlooked, and Brandon might use that to some advantage by hiding more clues in the books. Maybe the reason Era 3 is coming out after Elantris is because something happens on Sel that has a direct effect on Scadrial?

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  • 1 month later...

Brandon has likened the magic system to coding before. I think that Selish magic is probably the most understood magic system in the Cosmere (at least by those using it). Anyone who has done any sort of coding before knows that the tiniest mistake can throw the whole thing off and make it not function (like the chasm line). I think if anyone can learn how to hack into another system's investiture it would be the coding experts of the universe. Think about the events of the Secret History spoiler below. 

Spoiler

If Kelsier hadn't been present to intervene the Ire would probably have succeeded in stealing another planet's god. 

I have a lot of faith that the people of Sel will be very important later on. 

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1 minute ago, theuntaintedchild said:

Brandon has likened the magic system to coding before. [..] I think if anyone can learn how to hack into another system's investiture it would be the coding experts of the universe.

In one of the recent signings (Poland I think) Brandon actually said that you could make a higher level programming language from it, so I have to agree with this sentiment. They will have gained the technical expertise to hack a lot of the systems once they reach the current timeline

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2 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

In one of the recent signings (Poland I think) Brandon actually said that you could make a higher level programming language from it, so I have to agree with this sentiment. They will have gained the technical expertise to hack a lot of the systems once they reach the current timeline

And didn't he say he wanted to do some more on Sel before the modern-era Mistborn series?

And isn't the main character in the modern-era Mistborn series going to be a computer programmer?

While I wouldn't go so far as to consider these connections a full-fledged theory that I'd be willing to predict, I do find them very interesting.

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20 hours ago, Yitzi2 said:

And didn't he say he wanted to do some more on Sel before the modern-era Mistborn series?

And isn't the main character in the modern-era Mistborn series going to be a computer programmer?

While I wouldn't go so far as to consider these connections a full-fledged theory that I'd be willing to predict, I do find them very interesting.

This is a really cool connection to make. It would make sense that we would need the knowledge of Sel before the next Misborn series if they are learning how to view the magic systems as coding. I love having a book series like this that can be predicted with relative accuracy. I'm so used to going into a book completely blind. This minimal predictability makes me more excited for the next books in a series. 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

EDIT: I appear to have messed up spoiler text, my apologies.

A potential reason for Sel having an influence is that:

 

According to Khriss it's the most Realmatically aware/knowledgeable of worlds

 

 

Edited by Agent34
Attempting to fix a mistake.
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Um, AU spoilers, I guess.
 

Spoiler

Moreover khriss says that Sel, the planet itself, is gaining sentinence because of the immense amounts of investiture invested into the land. A planet with sentinence in cosmere? I am sure it is going to be important and even if it is not, a sentinent planet is cool enough to warrant his attention on it.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 4/25/2017 at 9:38 AM, Reborn radiant said:

Um, AU spoilers, I guess.
 

  Hide contents

Moreover khriss says that Sel, the planet itself, is gaining sentinence because of the immense amounts of investiture invested into the land. A planet with sentinence in cosmere? I am sure it is going to be important and even if it is not, a sentinent planet is cool enough to warrant his attention on it.

 

Mogo. Or ego. Look out cosmere 

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  • 2 months later...
18 hours ago, Nathrangking said:
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With the moon scepter as a rosetta stone of sorts in Hoid's hands the implications for the rest of the cosmere are substantial.

Not exactly. It's more of a Rosetta Stone for Selish Magic.

Quote

3) In what way is the Moon Sceptre linked to the Dor?

Brandon - I think we can canonise this. So the Moon Sceptre-...so the sceptre is kinda like the Rosetta Stone. You can use it to translate the symbols from one system to the symbols of another and can use it to understand their meaning (paraphrased a bit, but simply put Moon Sceptre = Seliash/Selian Investiture Rosetta Stone) Almost thought I was going to get RAFO'd but I didn't :D

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