Markus

Dawnsingers=Honorblades? (WoR and Edgedancer spoilers)

9 posts in this topic

Hi everyone.

I am new here so tell me if this theory has been proposed before

I am reposting this from general Cosmere theories because I didn't realize it should go here.

A couple WoB's:

Quote
 

MILLENNIUM

Do Honorblades have the same sort of relationship to Honor (possibly to a much greater degree) that Shardblades do?

BRANDON SANDERSON

You're on the right track.
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LANCE ALVEIN

Can you confirm if the scene with Taln at the end of Way of Kings is entirely in Hoid's perspective? There was some discussion that it might not be, since Taln's honourblade was called a shardblade.

BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED)

That entire scene is in Hoid's POV, and the reason for it being called a shardblade is because honourblades are shardblades.

These are what first got me thinking that Honorblades might be some kind of spren.  Kabsal refers to the Dawnsingers as spren who brought healing.  So, Dawnsingers seem like a likely choice for honorblade-spren because:

  1. We know very little about them, so they could be virtually anything.
  2. Dawnsingers are probably powerful, because they are probably related to Dawnshards, which Honor views as vital against Odium.
  3. Heralds seem too weak- Nalan had a hard time catching Lift, an Edgedancer who had only sworn three oaths.  They are seen as godlike figures and it would be a little dissapointing for these demigods to be about as powerful as a KR.  I think that Nalan with his blade is like a former KR using a dead shardblade, only more powerful because it's a Herald and Honorblade.
  4. The parallel between the Recreance and the Heralds abandoning their oaths: they both left their weapons behind for no apparent reason.  Unless something to do with the previous bond stopped them from using them right then.  Of course, Nalan used his blade in Edgedancer, so this might be false or somehow wear off over time.
  5. I think that Kaladin said his father believed in the Almighty because the Heralds were said to have taught healing.  This might just have been Vedel, Herald of Healing, but I will have to look at the exact quote to know for sure.  I don't have the ebook copy so this will likely take awhile.  Anyone who could give me this quote would be greatly appreciated.

What do you think?

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I just thought he meant that sprenblades and honorblades are both splinters, not that they both have spren attached to them. Personally ive always preferred thinking of the dawnsingers as things of cultivation but thats just me.

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I'm pretty sure they are Honor, because Cultivation tends to make thinks more mild. 

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I actually have had thoughts very similar to yours, and in fact, I have a little pet theory of mine that the honor blades used to be sentient, like a sprenblade, and grant all ten surges.

My reasoning for this is that everything else that we have seen of sufficient investiture to become (through any means) a shardblade either is sentient now (I believe the word Brandon likes to use is sapient) or used to be. Skaze and sons could become shardblades if they were to have something to pull them more into the physical realm, and in the case of Nightblood, he gained sapience by sheer weight of investiture.

Sprenblades, when alive, grant the user two surges. If the honor blades have fallen when the Oathpact ended, it would make sense that they no longer have some of the same abilities and splendor that they used to.

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1 hour ago, TheTigerKandra said:

a shardblade either is sentient now (I believe the word Brandon likes to use is sapient) or used to be.

Brandon likes to use the term sapient for what it means, the mental capacity to affect judgment, and sentience for what it means, simple self-awareness and reaction to stimuli. 

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Thank you for clarifying, I never really got the difference between the two words. 

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As people have said, I don't think Honorblades are/were spren. If anything, the Heralds may be the Dawnsingers. I remember seeing a WoB that the Heralds are cognitive shadows, but I can't find it now. They would fit with the "spren who brought healing" since they "saved" humanity from Odium.

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I found another quote, this one from The Diagram, that supports the idea that the Honorblades were spren:

Quote

"AhbuttheywereleftbehindItisobviousfromthenatureofthebondButwherewherewherewhereSetoffObviousRealizationlikeapricityTheyarewiththeShinWemustfindoneCanwemaketouseaTruthlessCanwecraftaweapon"

Clarification:

"Ah but they were left behind. It is obvious from the nature of the bond. But where where where where? Set off. Obvious. Realization like apricity. They are with the Shin. We must find one. Can we make to use a Truthless? Can we craft a weapon?"

The "they" seems to refer to the Honorblades, because they were left behind with the Shin.  It also mentions truthless, who hold honorblades.  It then mentions a bond, which probably refers to a spren bond.  The way I read it, it seems to imply that they were left behind because of something to do with the bond, which supports what I said above.

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1 hour ago, Markus said:

I found another quote, this one from The Diagram, that supports the idea that the Honorblades were spren:

Clarification:

"Ah but they were left behind. It is obvious from the nature of the bond. But where where where where? Set off. Obvious. Realization like apricity. They are with the Shin. We must find one. Can we make to use a Truthless? Can we craft a weapon?"

The "they" seems to refer to the Honorblades, because they were left behind with the Shin.  It also mentions truthless, who hold honorblades.  It then mentions a bond, which probably refers to a spren bond.  The way I read it, it seems to imply that they were left behind because of something to do with the bond, which supports what I said above.

We have confirmation that the Honorblades are direct pieces of Honor's power. The question then is whether they're sentient or not. Judging by their usage and other descriptions, I would say that they're not, in which case they wouldn't be spren. Bond can also just be referring to the bond the Honorblade forms with its holder.

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