Source - Chapter 3 Revision - 2/6/2017 - 3277 words (V)

[TKWade]

Revised Chapter 3

Looking for character consistency, and motivation buy-in and logic.

I find myself having difficulty locking down Lillian, but I think I've shored up Stephain. Does the chapter flow better and remain engaging?

Thanks 

[kais]

Welcome back in!

Overall

Better. Still clunky in places, and motivation seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle. Character choices also a little flimsy. Writing wise it's loads better. You improve exponentially with every submission!

As I go

- page one: are the tall lit up building actually climbing? Confusing wording here

- Hah! Your comma use is getting better! Not perfect yet, but so much improvement!

- that last paragraph of page one is confusing to me. A lot of world building dump that seems really important. I'd like more time spent on it because right now I'm left confused

- page three: so are we in a third person omniscient here? Otherwise, POV fail

- page four: I see we're keeping the 'arms under the breasts' line? o_O

- Lillian seems pretty straightforward as the twin foil for Stephain. Moreso now I question Stephain and his rather righteous speeches in the first part of the submission. I have a hard time believing he would be so incredibly opposite about human use from the rest of this family. It doesn't seem realistic, and breaks me from the narrative. I'd expect him to have at least some biases, just by the nature of his upbringing.

- page six: the relevance of the departure of Stephain seems to be buried in this draft. I don't see clear purpose for him now

- page nine: out on his own, meeting humans, showing them the error of their ways... woah. First, I think this purpose statement needs to be way earlier in the chapter. Second, there's that bias I was suspecting was there! It needs to be brought out more, earlier. Right now its contrary to how you have his character set up

- page ten: with Lillian's new personality, I don't know why she would want to go with Stephain at all. Seems like author convenience

- the ending confuses me on blocking. Landin betrayed them and then gets his throat cut?

[TKWade]

On 2/6/2017 at 9:17 PM, kaisa said:

- page four: I see we're keeping the 'arms under the breasts' line? o_O

I felt odd taking it out after making such a stink about it and saying I'd do the same with my male counterparts in the story line.

 

On 2/6/2017 at 9:17 PM, kaisa said:

- page nine: out on his own, meeting humans, showing them the error of their ways... woah. First, I think this purpose statement needs to be way earlier in the chapter. Second, there's that bias I was suspecting was there! It needs to be brought out more, earlier. Right now its contrary to how you have his character set up

I will do this. thank you!

 

On 2/6/2017 at 9:17 PM, kaisa said:

- page ten: with Lillian's new personality, I don't know why she would want to go with Stephain at all. Seems like author convenience

I will go back through the chapter and provide her more development and character motivation.

 

On 2/6/2017 at 9:17 PM, kaisa said:

- the ending confuses me on blocking. Landin betrayed them and then gets his throat cut?

I couldn't find a good spot towards the end to slide in his motivation for betrayal. The next chapter directly follows this one and will contain character motivation.

Thank you again  

[Mandamon]

Similar thoughts to @kaisa. It does read better, and Stephain is more sympathetic, but I think we lose something with Lillian. Nessian I still don't have much feeling for. She seems a rather blah villain.

End of pg 1: there's still a lot of infodump here, telling the reader how valuable the twin-born are and how they can communicate. it would be nice to see this through dialogue or actions.

pg 3: "Your idealism is commendable; however, you forget they take advantage of their own. They use the very energy they supply us."
--There's a lot of Maid and Butler here, explaining what the characters already know.

Pg 4: was also sort of surprised with the "arms under the breasts" line. Honestly, I'd just remove it at this point.

pg 11: "We'll be out of your hair in no time"
--uh...they wouldn't be using this phrase. They just had a big conversation about how they don't know what hair is.

[Hobbit]

I also think this is definitely an improvement.  The narrative flows better, and everything seems more natural.  There are a few places where it still feels a little forced, but it's a step in the right direction for sure!

I appreciate that we have a motive for Nis in this chapter - she's excited about taking her siblings' power.  I agree that Lil could use clearer motivation.  I realized that I made up a motive for her - that she's going along to protect Steph, and maybe because she can't stand being without her only ally in a house full of callous human-haters.  Whatever her real motives, I'd definitely like to see more of them.

My impression of Steph is that he's idealistic, that he naturally cares about others, and that he wants things to be fair, but he's also innocent, sheltered, and a little bit simple.  Things are pretty black and white for him right now, and I'm hoping to see him grow to be a bit more nuanced as the book goes along.  He's sympathetic with room to grow.  Not sure if that's your plan, but I wanted to give you my current impression.

I'm not trying to start another extended breasts discussion, I swear!  But I'll just add that after thinking about your previous submission and all the comments, I realized the real reason why that line bothers me:  It seems like you're (unintentionally) using Nis's sexuality to identify her as evil.  We're not supposed to like her, and the first time we see her, the narrative immediately points out her sexual body parts, therefore further "confirming" her evilness.  This "sexiness = evil" is something that's done in movies, TV, etc.  It feels out of place largely because I don't expect that you meant it to come across that way (I don't think this is "that" kind of story), so it reads awkwardly.  But of course, do what you want with your own book: if you're committed to normalizing our use of the word "breasts," go for it, man.  I'm just giving you my reader reaction.

And now, the in-line suggestions:

"Your thoughts are impossible to read."
This feels awkward - a little on the nose, maybe?  It's also odd, considering that she and her brother can sense each other.  I expect she'd have something deeper to say here, maybe?

He had thoughts of back-handing her...
This comes across as a little too violent, even knowing how much he hates her.  For some reason "He wanted to backhand her" sounds a little less premeditated than "He had thoughts of backhanding her."  But I'm just nitpicking.

He tried to focus on the moss covered stones of the buildings he passed.
This paragraph is all "He _verbed_..." sentences.  Switch it up for better flow.

Did the man ever dream of a different life?
This sequence makes Steph sound sounds very pretentious and a little simplistic - if it's supposed to, then it's great.

...considering whether or not to thump him on the head.
Not sure I understand why he wants to do this.

The ending was such a surprise!  Whoa!
 

Finally, here's a few grammar catches.  It's really getting better every time.

"This goes here." He picked up the pendant and turned it over, pressing the token into the back - it fit snugly into a slot. "Here, look in the mirror." Landin turned Stephain by the shoulder, directing him at a tall mirror right behind him.

Oh $**!. He quickly pulled the token out of the pendant.

Idiot. If Stephain didn't like him so much he would wring his neck.

"There's a bigger mirror right behind ya," Landin pointed out.

Stephain couldn't help smiling just a little bit. She never changes.

Here's a tip (maybe you've heard it before, because you're getting it right most of the time now): Use a period if the sentences on both sides, both the dialogue and the descriptor, are complete sentences.  If one side feels odd by itself, use a comma.  "There's a bigger mirror right behind ya." Landon gestured at the mirror.  versus "There's a bigger mirror right behind ya," Landon pointed out.  Technically, Landon pointed out  or  Landon said does have a subject and a verb, but it leaves me asking, "Pointed out what?" and "Said what?" so it feels incomplete.  If it feels incomplete, use a comma.

 

[Mandamon]

31 minutes ago, Hobbit said:

I'm not trying to start another extended breasts discussion, I swear!

Heh--I'm listening to N.K. Jemisin's "Killing Moon" on audiobook and she uses "crossed her arms beneath her breasts" in one spot.

...not trying to derail, just thought that was funny given the amount of discussion on it here.

[Robinski]

Hey there, more comments.

• “Only one pair could become the Arc and the position was fought over between the high families fiercely” – You seem to say they’re unique, then rare, then the families are fighting over getting their twins to the top to be Arc. I’m confused.

• Why is ‘father’ capitalised, I don’t get it, don’t see the need.

• “With no twin-borns to become Arcs I can become the High Templar instead." Ness said with a smile” – I expected her to go ‘Mu-ah ha ha!!’ at this point, Ness comes over very much the pantomime villain to me, in her actions and her dialogue.

• Also, some of Steph’s lines could be more convincing. I think reading the dialogue out loud is a valuable test of how convincing it is. “The ball starts in two hours. I'm going to my quarters to get ready.” – Here for example, I don’t think a sibling would say or need to say where they were going to get ready.

• Why is ‘tinker’ capitalised? The more you use capitalisation the less effective or relevant it is.

• I find Lan’s dialogue more effective, and the interactions between him and Steph are more convincing than the scene between the siblings, for me.

• I wonder why Lill’s appearance is a surprise to Steph; would he not have sensed her presence through the bond? (Which I’ll say again is very Aes Sedai / Warder a la Wheel of Time).

• Ness’s appearance feels like a repetition of Lill’s, and it makes Steph look pretty useless, his sister’s finding him out so easily. Verging on comical. Okay, then a reveal that Lan has shopped him, then there are guards. The cutting of Steph’s throat is dramatic, but the ending feels forced, all these new elements thrown into the scene in the space of a page, it felt unnatural to me.

The ending of this chapter was the biggest issue for me. I don’t really care enough for these characters for it to be earned and it feel forced, I wasn’t convinced. I also mentioned the sibling dialogue and an issue for me.

<R>