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Weird Theory about the Dawnshards


Yezrien

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We know almost nothing about the Dawnshards, so obviously this theory isn't built on any concrete evidence. But here's my thought process...

In Dalinar's vision, Honor himself used the word "Dawnshard," so it's clearly an official, accurate term. He also used the word "shards" for the shardblades of the Radiants. So there would seem to be a connection. Suppose Dawnshards are "shards" in the same sense as the blades. 

Spren. Powerful, ancient spren, sent by the Almighty to aid mankind. Which is exactly how Vorins describe the Dawnsingers. But that belief could be a product of its time. In the Age of Solitude (when SLA takes place), most people don't understand that shards are spren. 

So I'd theorize that the Dawnshards and the Dawnsingers are the same thing. (Or, potentially, that the Dawnsingers were humans, bonded with the Dawnshard-spren.)

Now here's the weird part.

Quote

 And … without the Dawnshards … Well, I have done what I can.

So Honor says we are "without the Dawshards." But if we don't have the Dawnshards, what happened to them? They can't have been destroyed; they're splinters, pure investiture, which cannot be created or destroyed. They might have been killed, like the common blade-spren, but that wouldn't make them gone. They'd still be around, at least partially usable, and potentially even revivable.

I guess they could be 'splintered' beyond repair, the same way Shards (of Adonalsium) are splintered. But as far as I know, that doesn't happen to spren. It could, in theory, but let's assume it hasn't. 

What if Honor lost the Dawnshards because Odium took them?

Took them, tortured them, infected them with his own malignant investiture, and twisted them into monstrous agents of hatred and destruction. Ergo... the Unmade.

This might explain the name "Unmade." Honor made them as beautiful, benevolent Dawnshards, and Odium un-made them, ruining Honor's work.

It also makes sense when you consider the names of the known unmade. Nergaoul and Moelach are clearly named for the Mesopotamian gods Nergal and Moloch. These 'gods' are identified as demons in Judeo-Christian mythology, and demons, generally, are fallen angels. And what are the Dawnsingers, if not angels?

Thoughts?

Edited by Belzedar
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Maybe this has been ruled out before but I figured the Dawnshards were probably the Honorblades. The Shards that were at the dawn of 'modern' (post-Adonalsium) Roshar. They were 'lost' long before Honor's death. Or is that too simple?

I would like your idea to be right though. It has a certain elegance.

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28 minutes ago, Extesian said:

Maybe this has been ruled out before but I figured the Dawnshards were probably the Honorblades. The Shards that were at the dawn of 'modern' (post-Adonalsium) Roshar. They were 'lost' long before Honor's death. Or is that too simple?

I would like your idea to be right though. It has a certain elegance.

Could be the case, but I definitely think it's too simple. Would be a real let down if the Dawnshards were just the Honorblades.

 

2 hours ago, Belzedar said:

(Or, potentially, that the Dawnsingers were humans, bonded with the Dawnshard-spren.)

 

I really like this idea. I guess the Listeners could be the Dawnsingers, but I would much rather it be the way you suggest. I also like the idea that the Dawnshards are giant/super-spren, and were corrupted and turned into the Unmade. I wonder if more giant/super-spren can be/have been formed again, and can become or already are new Dawnshards, allowing new Dawnsingers? Would make for a really cool arc I think.

Edited by The Ninja Yodeler
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That is a really cool theory.

I don't think there needs to be a connection between Dawnsingers and Dawnshards, though -- there's also the ancient language Dawnchant. "Dawn" might just refer to very ancient things, maybe before the time of the Heralds?

Listeners being Dawnsingers seems quite plausible to me, as they seem more "native" to Roshar than humans and they have the Rhythms.

 

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I like the idea that the Unmade are the corrupted Dawnshards (though that doesn't fit with the snippet of story from Jasnahs research regarding someone "taking a Dawnshard, known to bind both voidish and mortal" [paraphrased] as if it we're an inanimate thing), but I personally subscribe to the general theory that anything with "Dawn" in its name predates the Shards moving to Roshar... So they couldn't be of Honor, for me, but they could be super-spren of Adonalsium that Odium corrupted.

Btw @The Flash, there aren't 10 unmade (according to a well circulated WoB I can't find on my mobile).

Edited by Krandacth
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On 2/3/2017 at 1:56 PM, Krandacth said:

I like the idea that the Unmade are the corrupted Dawnshards (though that doesn't fit with the snippet of story from Jasnahs research regarding someone "taking a Dawnshard, known to bind both voidish and mortal" [paraphrased] as if it we're an inanimate thing), but I personally subscribe to the general theory that anything with "Dawn" in its name predates the Shards moving to Roshar... So they couldn't be of Honor, for me, but they could be super-spren of Adonalsium that Odium corrupted.

Btw @The Flash, there aren't 10 unmade (according to a well circulated WoB I can't find on my mobile).

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1088#3

In short: the number is fixed, and it's not ten.

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On 2/2/2017 at 3:42 PM, Belzedar said:

In Dalinar's vision, Honor himself used the word "Dawnshard," so it's clearly an official, accurate term. He also used the word "shards" for the shardblades of the Radiants. So there would seem to be a connection. Suppose Dawnshards are "shards" in the same sense as the blades. 

The vision is happening in Dawnchant, though, and Dalinar is able to understand it. It could just be that Dawnshard is the name Dalinar knows, so that's what he hears, even if that's not how Honor would have referred to them.

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I used to assume that the Dawnshards were the original spren that bonded to the Parshendi back before the spren 'betrayed' them; that would make the dawnsingers = parshendi, and dawnchant = rhythms. It seems to make a kind of literal sense of the terms. But as @mattstocum pointed out the visions are in dawnchant, but Dalinar is able to accurately dictate and Navani can write it out, so it's unlikely to be using the same rhythmic patterns.

But I still like the idea that the spren 'betrayal' was actually a corruption, and this is all about the pre-shardic Parshendi...

I don't know, I'm in two camps on this one. I also like thinking that the dawnshards are the 'first shards' = honorblades (or even the Honorblade + Herald combination; like how vessel + shard are referred to collectively as 'shard'), the dawnsingers are the heralds, and the dawnchant is the native language of the heralds or maybe Honor.

The only thing that keeps me happy about not knowing is that this is likely to be important enough to the plot to be laid directly out for us when the time is right. None of this "Rand/Moridin ending" crem.

I would be inclined to doubt that the Unmade were the dawnshards, but I definitely concede that it's possible.

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On 2/2/2017 at 0:42 PM, Belzedar said:

What if Honor lost the Dawnshards because Odium took them?

Took them, tortured them, infected them with his own malignant investiture, and twisted them into monstrous agents of hatred and destruction. Ergo... the Unmade.

This might explain the name "Unmade." Honor made them as beautiful, benevolent Dawnshards, and Odium un-made them, ruining Honor's work.

It also makes sense when you consider the names of the known unmade. Nergaoul and Moelach are clearly named for the Mesopotamian gods Nergal and Moloch. These 'gods' are identified as demons in Judeo-Christian mythology, and demons, generally, are fallen angels. And what are the Dawnsingers, if not angels?

As some others pointed out, Honor is associated with the number 10, and Sanderson has said the number of Unmade is "fixed" but not 10. Which means they probably aren't directly affiliated with Honor.

HOWEVER, he's also said there were spren on the Roshar before Honor and Cultivation arrived. So it's possible those spren could fit with your theory.    

13 Oct 2014:     
"A Splinter is a term used by certain people in the cosmere for power of Adonalsium which has no person caring for it, no... no person holding it, which has attained self-awareness . . . for instance there were some spren on Roshar before Honor and Cultivation got there. Those were already Splinters of Adonalsium where he had left power which attained sentience on its own. So, it can be intentional is what I am saying, does that make sense? You have seen other splinters."      

I'm still a fan of the idea that the Dawnsingers were ancient Parshendi who were bonded to (or worshipped) whatever spren arose on Roshar before the other shards arrived. But your idea about Odium "unmaking" some kind of Dawnshard spren (possibly those ancient ones) into the "Unmade" is really interesting. Your comparison to angels/demons is a good one.

 

23 hours ago, Darkness said:

But I still like the idea that the spren 'betrayal' was actually a corruption, and this is all about the pre-shardic Parshendi...

I like this idea too. 

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