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20170130 - The Seeds of Dissolution - Ch1-2 v2 - Mandamon - 5170


Mandamon

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Hello all,
Here are chapters 1 and 2 again, with lots of revisions. NOTE this contains sequences with anxiety-related issues, so if that bothers you, might not want to read.

There are less changes in chapter 1, so if you don't want to read the whole thing, I'm looking for more critique on chapter 2.


Looking for:
-Whether these epigraps work better
-Does the anxiety come across better (this is toned down from agoraphobia to general crowd/ new places anxiety
-Emotional connection to the characters

Thanks!

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Rather than reading the story again, since I want to read it when it's done later in the year when you publish it, I thought I would read the epigraphs so at least I'm contributing something this time around!

So...,

 

Chapter 1 - From the start, I was calling the voids “Drains,” because of their function. It frustrates me others insist on ignoring or even suppressing my name. It is to be much more descriptive than “void.”

I felt "suppressing my name" meant Origon's name, and it wasn't until I finished the sentence that I realised he meant suppressing his name for the phenomenon.

 

Chapter 2 - Many new maji first use their abilities in a blaze of power, then are unable to use them again for days or weeks. Scholars believe there is an overload of music from the one's first contact with the Grand Symphony and the aspiring majus is rendered ‘deaf’ for a time.

I suggest this minor tweak would clarify that it is an individual's first contact, not the race's first contact, which was in my head as I read it first time.

 

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- I like the new starts of the chapter. It feels a little more vague about what the main character will find in the story.

- It may be weekly reader syndrome, but I felt the description of the Kirian was a little more solid this time around.

- I also liked that he grieves for Aunt Martha in the end. The previous version, I think, seemed to make her fate sort of undetermined.

- Looking forward to reading more!

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I don't know if you've edited this since I last read it, so going in anyway. 

Post read: so I basically did a cleaning pass this time. Some little things. Getting a lot stronger each time!

 

As I go

- page one: I think I stumble a bit in this first bit because I need more description of the room. At least another few sentences of all the boxes, to really get a feel for Sam's collections

- on page two, the paragraph that starts with 'Sam navigated' is pretty clunky still

His aunt never told him his questions were stupid, just noted the obvious. This line could be deleted. Telling.

- page five: I don't know if you've edited since I read or not, but the aunt doesn't seem as 'mystical' in this one. So either I made it up the first time or you edited it, but I miss it. :(

- At the same time, now her feebleness makes more sense, but there was a certain hook to her being kind of magical, too

- “Y-you will l-live.” She made a small sound he had never heard from her. Suggest deleting this. It would stand better with just the no excuses part

- the interactions with Kirian are a lot more natural now

- page seventeen: ah, I think this is revised. The friend to help cope reads better

 

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@Robinski thanks for the epigraph work - Every bti helps!

@rdpulfer thanks! Glad the grief for Aunt Martha is coming across right.

@kaisa Thanks for the multiple reads!  Yes, I toned Aunt Martha down a bit. Everyone seemed to be getting  a mystical vibe off her, where I was more implying a strong-willed old southern lady. I liked it too, but it was detracting from the main point of the chapter.

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Hello,

Thank you for sharing your chapters.  I've only finished Chapter 1 but I wanted to post my thoughts while they were fresh and before I lose them.

 

Quote

Sam was reading when the sun dimmed.

 He looked up from his book in time to see the overhead light blink off, then on. His laptop screen went black at the same time his bedside clock flashed, the red numbers fading away. A chill breath of air passed around him, leaving goosebumps, and the overhead light faded again.

 
 
 

I think you should describe the house right off.  Mention the style of the home, and possibly the old wallpaper on the wall.  I read and re-read this page, and I didn’t think I was in an old lady’s home until you mentioned it. 

Quote

He made sure to keep it wound, here in the safety of his room. He sought calm, watching the sky outside the window shade into twilight.

 
 
 

 

I think you are conveying that the watch is a comfort to Sam.  Make that more clear by connecting the end of paragraph 2 to the beginning of paragraph 3. 

 

Quote

His other hand fingered the lid of a small shoebox, one of his boxes containing grass clippings, shells, sand, and other things, bought by friends and customers of his aunt. They reminded him of sights and smells from the outside.

 
 
 
Quote

The shoebox was special. It contained half of a belt, stiff from water damage, and the heel of a woman’s left shoe, sheared off cleanly

 
 
 

It contains this too?

Quote

Sam shivered at another gust of cold air.

 

When was the first time?

Quote

 

The window was even colder than the house

 
 
 

At the end of the first page, I don’t know what is happening, what Sam looks like, or what the room he is in looks like. You are hinting at his emotions, but those things are more abstract than the physical environments.  I think you need to lower the level of abstraction. You're dialed in on his emotional insecurity, bu that is all I really have. 

I did like the way you slipped some physical details, but they weren't enough for me to picture the place. You travel from a room through the hall and into another room.  In effect you have three settings. 

 

Quote

Since he had started taking classes, he didn’t have to deal with the crowds at high school, or worry if he had forgotten his homework. (Use a comma after school).

 
 
1

 

Quote

 He rammed his feet into them, but by the time he got to the other end of the house, he was using his hands more than his eyes to navigate.

 
 

Nonsequitur.

Quote

She moved slower than she had when he first came to live with her, after the accident.

Too many things hinted at early on.  You don’t need this one.

Quote

“Yes, Ma’am.” His aunt never told him his questions were stupid, just noted the obvious. He swallowed, feeling something try to catch in his throat, and put out a hand to steady himself on a wall. His other hand snaked into his pocket to feel the steady ticking.

 
 
Quote

“Yes, Ma’am.” His aunt never told him his questions were stupid, just noted the obvious. He swallowed, feeling something try to catch in his throat, and put out a hand to steady himself on a wall. His other hand snaked into his pocket to feel the steady ticking.

 
 

It is odd that can hear the watch ticking in his pocket but not the beat of his own heart.  When I’ve experienced anxiety attacks, I hear thumping.

 

Quote

Sam thought his aunt put it here because she didn’t know what else to do with it.

 

Unnecessary filtering.

 

Quote

“Wh-what do we do here, Aunt Martha?” Sam’s body vainly tried to shake him back to warmth in the ever-increasing cold.

 
 

Wordy.

Quote

Sam’s aunt sat back with a grunt as the newspaper finally lit, and the fire grew, though too slowly.

 
Quote

his breathing was fast and he searched for something to distract him.

 

Passive writing.

Quote

His aunt attempted to rise, but fell against him, and Sam caught her awkwardly. “I am the one who cannot go,” she said. He was suddenly aware of how much willpower she had to keep going.

 
1

This part is confusing. I dont' think you need the comma after rise.

Quote

“N-no excuses.” His aunt shook, and on hand tried to reach for him, failed. “Y-you will llive.” She made a small sound he had never heard from he

1

Unclear. 

Quote

Even the watch in his pocket was ticking slowly, wound down far faster than normal.

 

Did he stop to check?

 

 

 

 

Edited by M.Puddles
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I'm sorry for having to do this in a reply, but my work computer is ancient.  Go go public schools. It didn't have the memory for copy pasting in the last post, and it showed my letter with a ten second delay as I typed. 

Quote

Sam’s eyes snapped open and he jerked his neck up, wondering how much time he had lost. Ice crystals cracked on his neck, and around his eyelids.

 

Snot and tears freeze first.  Ice Crystals on his neck pulled me from the story.

Quote

He should feel something, but both his fingers and his mind were numb. His aunt had put up with his anxiety for ten years. She had given him strength to overcome those obstacles he did, though he knew he always fell short. He should have obeyed instead of questioning

 
 
 
 

Too much naval gazing here.  Let us readers figure this out by his reaction and actions.

 

Quote

A thick ring of light erupted on the hearth, barely as high as his kneeling form. Two colors intermixed and rotated around the edge of the ring, one color bright, the other shiny. In the ring’s center was a pool of blackness.

 
 
 

I thin you need a simile/metaphor here.  I had trouble ‘seeing’ it.

Chapter 1 is interesting.  I’m curious about what is happening, but not at all the questions, Sam is asking himself.  I think you could streamline this scene and enhance its effect and power by focusing less on what Sam is thinking, and showing us more physiological results of the environment and his actions. 

 

 

 

 

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Chapter 2:

 

This is going to take the form as a flow of conciousness. 

Page 1:

Your 2nd and 3rd line is hard to see.  If you make it more concrete it would be easier:

Fresh air funneled through his notstrils...

 

Quote

He had to look up to to meet the man his eye not something he did often. 

Quote

...and Sam took in a deep breathe inhaled

 

Sam pops through a strange hole, finds himself somplace warm and new and the first thought that comes to mind is his aunt?  I think he might wonder where he was especially since he is scared of new places. 

 

Quote

A warm breeze flowed past, carying angry trills...

A warm breeze flowed through his (hair type) carrying angry trills...

I'm starting to wonder why Sam isn't demanding who the strange person is and where he might be quicker. 

Quote

The voice pulled his gaze up.  The clash of the color the man wore was jarring and Sam welcomed the distraction. 

The sentence that describes the man's robe is clunky.

Quote

The top...crest was the only word...bristled as the man..

This bit is confusing.  

I'm still surprised that Sam isn't showing much anxiety in the first page. 

Page 2

Was he 

Quote

imagining this again-so cold he was hallucinating

Was he hallucinating?  The readers know why he would be.  

I think you should show how possesive he is of the watch and write  it as thought it is his instead of using the a generic article. "He took out his watch, wound it...."

Quote

"I....I'm from America." His Sam's heart strangled him...

I thin he takes too long to stand here.  People usually stand when they are scared or uncertain and wouldn't want to be 'back against the wall' on the ground while being a stranger in a strange land. 

You tell us he hyperventilating before sowing us enough physiological symptoms.  

Quote

Cold flesh at his fingertips, sightless eyes staring up. 

This isn't so much a sentence as a two consecutive phrases. 

 

Page 3

 

I think you need to show more phsyiological effects related to anxiety. 

 

Quote

There was an acidic thang  in the air.

Earlier you described the air being fresh.

I think you can cut this part:

Quote

cutting through his light-headed haze. 

Quote

Nothing worked anymore (comma)"he swalloed past a lump..."

 
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"What--exactly--did you run from? The man was interested.  -> Curiosity? 

Quote

Sam had to keep him talkng, keep him here. 

Filtering.  

Quote

notice what he was thinking

he being Sam of the Kirien? 

Quote

He noticed he was taking, short, breaths, and made his lungs expand, made himself hold in the air for one, two , three ticks. -> He took short breaths. Made himself hold them.  One. Two. Three ticks.  

 
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Sam recited his eyes closed.  "I was reading, then it got cold and all the lights went faded....

Sam spoke.  You described them as dimming in chapter 1. 

The fire didn't burn out, it just died. 

Quote

"Who are you, anyway?" The question of what  was for later. 

Quote

He kept his breathign regular, like the watch. 

He slowed his breathing, keeping pace wiht the watch. 

Page 5

Quote

He slid up the wall, shaking attemping trying ot stand.  His legs seemed fought to obey him. 

When you describe the crystal yellow, I pictured it being a physical subtance and not light. 

Quote

The Kirian's  long nails just pricked his forhead as the swirls of color crpt

Quote

His heart raced at he remembered smell 

His heart raced at the memories of hominty grits

The description of the kitchen should be in Chapter 1.  It woudl make this flashback more potent and set that scene up better. 

 

Quote

He confronted the momory, visualizing visualized Aunt Martha's workshop

Quote

It must be some sort of advanced science, because the other option...

Sam wouldnt' be thinking about this at this time, in this place.  It felt like you threw it in there to build plot/worldbuild  

Page 6

I don't know why but I kept picturing this scene as though it were on the ship.  The resonances form the description of the wood walls and the overhang overhead along with the colored 'feathering' made me think of parrots.  I definitely didn't get the idea of an alley. 

This page reads well.  

I think you can cut this out:

Quote

Even though you did it before, a little voice nagged in his head.

Page 7

Quote

"...like a chicken eyeing a worm."  So like a predator?  Creepy. 

Quote

He seemed (weak verb) faintly dissapointed.  

Quote

Major Cyrysi went (weak verb) to the mouth of the alley. 

Descrbing how this specie moves could tell us a lot. 

Quote

I'm from America," Sam said again. "On Earth."  questions (capital letter)

Page 8

Quote

"You were born on a different planet?  

This doen't feel like it the right question for Sam.  I expected him to ask something else instead based on what i know of him so far. Maybe: "You haven't heard of Earth? or "How could you not have heard of Earth?" 

As far as Sam knows...We are alone in the universe.  

I don't understand how he can hear and see all the comotion in the street from where he in the alley, and why this didn't set his anxiety off quicker.  

Page 9

Quote

Did he ever poke himself with those hooked fingernails?  -Well.  He just did.

Quote

He peered out of the allye again and his heart started racing raced. 

Quote

The information you hold is very importnat. 

Page 9

Quote

Sam nodded, and slid down in a corner, pulling his knees into his chest.  Alone again, he wept. for Aunt Martha. 

 

I like your opening chapters.  There is some minor stuff about Sam's reactions and  how his anxietly plays a part, but I think that you can address that easily in the next draft.  I did have trouble picture the Kirian a bit.  I think you might be aided using more similes to do that.  If I picked up this book, I would have read to the end of what you had writter here and...then turned the page for Chapter 3. 

 

 

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Hello!  This is my second time reading chapter 1 and my first time with chapter 2.

Impressions of Chapter 1: It's still a great hook.  I do like a good person vs environment conflict.  I also miss the mystical aunt, but I understand why you changed it. 

Impressions of Chapter 2: It's a good start, but I didn't quite believe Sam's anxiety.  I think @M.Puddles is right that we need to see the psychological effects of his anxiety as well as the physical ones.  Sam clearly has a different brand of anxiety than I've struggled with, but for example, when I get anxious because I fear I might get into a confrontation, I vastly over-exaggerate the likelihood of people getting really upset and judging me horribly, and then hating me forever.  Those fears are much more present to me than the physical effects - lack of appetite, physical weakness, etc.  It's true that panic-attacks are much more debilitating physically than what I've experienced, but (I think) there's still a thought process running in your head while it's happening.  I think you're already doing some of this, but it's not permeating Sam's whole mindset.  And I realize this is really hard to do, because you're basically setting up an unreliable narrator - his anxiety-indcued thoughts are not going to reflect reality.  But without it the anxiety doesn't quite feel real.

Specifics:

Chapter 1

“Haven’t you looked out of a window?”
I'm not sure what she's expecting him to see.

Her closeness was a comfort.
It feels creepy to me, but I like that he thinks its comforting. It's interesting.

...when his fingers intersected her white hair,
"Intersected" sounds like my husband using math-speak.  Maybe "brushed against?"

She had given him strength to overcome those obstacles he did, though he knew he always fell short.
This comes across as too direct.

Chapter 2

The air here was fresh, not stifling like the house had been.
If he hadn't left or even opened a window in years, he wouldn't have thought of it as stifling before.

Sam took in a deep breath, suddenly re-energized.
Re-energized doesn't sound like anxiety to me.

This was not a place he knew. Lost.
It would help me believe he felt lost if he had looked around.  We've gotten sound and smell and feel, but basically no visuals.

Sam welcomed the distraction.
hmm... maybe "Sam tried to focus on it to distract himself?" "Welcomed the distraction" again just doesn't feel anxious to me.

It still worked. It had to be real.
Maybe take a moment for him to feel relieved.

He’d be lost and alone. It cut through his panic.
You just used "cut through" in the previous paragraph.

Majus Cyrysi went to the mouth of the alley.
This visual is coming a bit late.

Sam peered out of the alley, keeping his hand on the rough wood of the building...
This paragraph gives me the visuals I've been waiting for!  I would expect, though, if he's afraid of crowds, he would have noticed this earlier.

“I’ll be better in a little while,” he snuck another peek outside the alley, shivered, “But any help would be appreciated.”
I'm not sure why he's trusting this guy.  It's true he doesn't have any choices, but if I got pulled through a hole onto an alien planet and a bird-man told me that his friend had techniques that could help me cope with my anxiety, after he put his two claws on my forehead and did some weird thing with light, I'd be like, "Maybe later."

My last comment on chapter 2 is that Sam is coming across a little young.  I'm suddenly imagining as being maybe fourteen.  I could believe his anxiety causes him to revert a bit, though.

That's what I've got!  I'm still engaged and ready to keep reading.

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Great feedback @Hobbit thanks very much! The thoughts on anxiety are especially helpful. I'm learning more and more about it as different people read this (and also finding that I have a general lack of anxiety, or maybe just don't deal with it like other people).

7 minutes ago, Hobbit said:

think you're already doing some of this, but it's not permeating Sam's whole mindset.  And I realize this is really hard to do, because you're basically setting up an unreliable narrator - his anxiety-indcued thoughts are not going to reflect reality.  But without it the anxiety doesn't quite feel real.

This is exactly what I need to focus on.

8 minutes ago, Hobbit said:

I'm not sure why he's trusting this guy.

Yeah, I can see how this is a problem. I'll see if I can adjust.

9 minutes ago, Hobbit said:

My last comment on chapter 2 is that Sam is coming across a little young.  I'm suddenly imagining as being maybe fourteen.  I could believe his anxiety causes him to revert a bit, though.

I'm feeling this as well, even in later chapters. Any thoughts on helping him to age up a bit (17-18 ish)?

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37 minutes ago, Mandamon said:

Any thoughts on helping him to age up a bit (17-18 ish)?

Hmmm.  I think one thing that will help him seem older is to make sure he's recognizing his own agency.  What I mean is that 17-18 year olds want to make their own decisions, just like adults (but without the fully developed frontal lobe). They think of themselves as independent, they want to have control over their lives, etc, and they think of themselves as having that control (or at least deserving it!).  I realized, thinking back, that Sam is very reactionary in this chapter.  Chapter one was better this way, because he was at least thinking of what actions he could take, like grabbing the sherry to light a fire.  However, in chapter 2 Sam is largely consumed with grief, confusion, and anxiety; all quite understandable, but it's taking away from his agency.  Again, I don't think it's really a problem that he seems young here.  Like I said, one response to anxiety is reversion in your acting age.  But if you want to up his agency, try having him come to the decision himself that he needs to sit still in the alley rather than go with Kirian, or similar things like that.

Also, for some reason "wiping one's nose on one's sleeve" or any mention of snot, boogers, etc seems to be a clear signal to readers that the character is a child.  I don't know why - are adults supposed to be more refined than that? :) 

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@Hobbit yes, more agency would help. I'll see what I can do.

I'm sort of experimenting with Sam in this story as a non-traditional masculine non-alpha personality. The anxiety is one part of that, which takes away some of his agency. There are other things as well, which will become apparent in later chapters.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think I said something about not reading Seeds until it came out – pah!

Chapter 1

  • “They watched the candle flame dwindle to a speck. The power plant couldn’t affect candles.” – Obvious, let the reader work that one out, it’s more satisfying for them.

  • “With Sam’s remaining strength, he pushed her closer to the nearly extinct” – This feels out of POV to me.

  • “Even the watch in his pocket was ticking slowly, wound down far faster than normal” – This is intriguing. Doubt I noticed it first time around, but this almost suggests that the effect is reducing potential energy, as in the coiled spring, which would be monumental, but actually, I guess it’s slowing the motion of the watch’s movement once the potential energy in the spring is released. Okay, back on track now, but I think it was the underlined bit above that through me. It seems to me inconsistent that the ‘effect’ would make something happen faster.

  • “Ice crystals cracked on his neck, and around his eyelids” – Ooh, like this line, very effective I thought.

  • “His aunt had put up with his anxiety for ten years” – I haven’t read the previous version, or the comments on this, but I’m aware this has been examined already however it seems like way more than ‘anxiety’, has no one diagnosed a condition in him?

  • His numbed fingers slid across her knitted shawl, down one arm, clutching.” – I feel like I want a description of the shawl being frozen solid, so that I know why he can’t get a grip of it.

Chapter 2

  • “I have not time to teach a green majus how to use your song” – Given the significance of colour to the maji, it seems odd for Ori to use a colour in this way.

  • “The man turned to one wooden wall of the alley.” – I do feel at this point that I’m missing blocking and description of surroundings. I guess that Sam would be unlikely to be taking in great detail and looking beyond the space between him and Ori, that would seem consistent, but when you say alley, I don’t or didn’t know I was in a built-up area, I was picturing countryside, as a default.

  • “to the mouth of the alley” – Yeah, I would just like a few cues once Sam is in the Nether, like light levels, feeling enclosed by the alley walls, something like that.

  • “slid down in a corner” – Yeah, if this is an alley, is it a dead end then? These spatial details are not important really; I don’t need a detailed run down of the alley’s layout, just enough to place myself in the world.

You know I enjoyed this story before, and that I really like it. My memory of detail of stories is pretty poor, so reading again after maybe a couple of years, I’m only really remembering the broad strokes of the story, which is good for me! Anyway, I feel like this opening is tighter than before, and I enjoyed that.

Happy to be back in Ori’s company again.

<R>

p.s.

- I was fine with the epigraphs - worked for me.

- Anxiety, I thought it worked, but I'm coming from a place of never really having experienced or dealt with anything like this personally.

- Well, I'm already emotionally connected with Ori. As for Sam, I remember before being frustrated by his lack of agency as the story progressed, and commenting about it on a regular basis. That's what I'll be looking out for as I got forward. So far, however, so good.

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Thanks @Robinski! Good comments as always.

5 hours ago, Robinski said:

I have not time to teach a green majus

Huh--never thought about that, but good point.

Also good points on the alley. It's supposed to be a dead end, but I don't think I ever said that. I can give some more description.

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