Tsidqiyah Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 Has anyone one else seen the mathematical theme in the names of the Set? Set: a well-defined collection of distinct objects, considered as an object in its own right. For example, the numbers 2, 4, and 6 are distinct objects when considered separately, but when they are considered collectively they form a single set Array: An arrangement of a series of terms in some geometric pattern, as in a matrix. (Think a multiplication table) Suit: Generally another name for a set. Think of the suits in a deck of cards. Sequence: An enumerated collection of objects in which repetitions are allowed. Like a set, it contains members (also called elements, or terms). Dictionany.com and Wikipedia. This nearly makes me wonder if Trell is a Shard that already embodied the concept of Harmony, Balance, or order and is threatened with another one on the scene. CRAZY THOUGHT: Sazed has multiple personalities one is Harmony and another it is Trell. I'll need to think about that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jofwu Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 I was so glad when "Array" was mentioned. With Sequence I started wondering how many list-related S names these people could come up with. Looking forward to meeting Vector and Matrix. I lean towards Trell=Autonomy. Can't see any connection there, so I have to assume the Set's naming scheme isn't directly related to Trell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyrindor Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 There was a snippet in (I think HoA) that said "He shall be called Discord, and they will love him for it." Discord is an exact opposite of Harmony. Perhaps something within the embodiment of the Shards is still trying to create opposites out of the powers that have now merged. That said, I'm leaning heavily toward Trell=Autonomy now, because of Khriss's essays as well as evidence already there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 There's also the thing that all three godmetals of Ruin and Preservation are accounted for: lerasium (P), atium (R), harmonium (R&P). Trellium isn't any of those things, so I deduce it comes form different Shard altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsidqiyah Posted January 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 Like i said CRAZY. I personally lean to the Trell=Autonomy as well. but it could be a valid direction we will have to wait for the next book i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezrien Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 The Set-names as clues to Trell's identity... that's a really interesting idea. And it does sound like Autonomy. "Suit" and "Sequence" are each a single individual -- just like how a multitude of beings, including whole pantheons, are all just Bavadin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalaCrisp88 Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 I feel like Autonomy is more indicative of disorder rather than order. Obviously autonomy is not the same thing as complete chaos and anarchy, but I think it's closer to that than it is to perfect order and harmony. With the way the Set names are related mathematically, I don't think Autonomy is a major force in this situation. Might there be a shard called Rationality or Logic? I don't know if that really suits the theme of the shard names though. And let me know if there are WoB's that disprove anything I've said. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elenion Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 1 hour ago, 8giraffe8 said: Might there be a shard called Rationality or Logic? AU spoilers: Spoiler What about Ambition? Its intent would probably predispose it to planning and tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalaCrisp88 Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 16 hours ago, Elenion said: AU spoilers: Hide contents What about Ambition? Its intent would probably predispose it to planning and tactics. Might be possible, I guess. I'm not sure about all of my cosmere timeline stuff, but (AU spoilers) Spoiler I thought Ambition was splintered too early to have any influence on Scadrial. It was certainly splintered before W&W era. Maybe it did some behind the scenes stuff REALLY early on, maybe before Rashek's time, but I definitely don't think the Set has anything to do with Ambition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) Trell is confirmed to be a Shard we know of. At the time that happened we knew of Harmony, Autonomy, Odium, Cultivation, Honor, Dominion, Devotion and Endowment. We also know it isn't Edgli. D&D are splintered as is Honor. That leaves Autonomy, Odium, Cultivation and Harmony himself as our options for Trell. As an aside, I wonder if the Shard opposite Ambition is Humility? Edited January 29, 2017 by Kingsdaughter613 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teknopathetic Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) My money is on Dominion or Ambition. Sel has had their eyes on Preservation for a while now, and i bet the Selish people have found a way to work with their splintered shards. Odium killed Dominion and Devotion first, so I can see their shattering being a little less complete. Autonomy, while more likely, seems too obvious for my liking. I still vote Ambition to be trell since Ambition is a shard i can see surviving a shattering. Ambition had time to plan his death and that is suspicious. Odium couldn't find Ambition and then suddenly Odium kills him after destroying Sel? odd. Ambition would totally die if that meant he'd be stronger later. I'd love if Ambition studied Odium killing Devotion and then made a plan to ressurect himself. However, you're saying now that it can't be Ambition. Plus, to be ambitious is to bring discord. Edited January 29, 2017 by teknopathetic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 We didn't know of ambition when we got the WoB. We hadn't seen him yet. That's why I say it can't be him. The Selish Shards seem to be the most shattered to me, due to being stuck in the Cognitive realm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 11 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: We didn't know of ambition when we got the WoB. We hadn't seen him yet. That's why I say it can't be him. The Selish Shards seem to be the most shattered to me, due to being stuck in the Cognitive realm. Resisting.... Resisting.... OK, here it is. Let us pray that Brandon never tells us it's intuitively obvious to the most casual observer, as of the time BoM was published, who Trell actually is. It would be hilarious, but still very wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asamac Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 Going back to the original discussion, there is also a type of mathematical object called a ring. (Just in case we ran out of ridiculous theories.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalaCrisp88 Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, asamac said: Going back to the original discussion, there is also a type of mathematical object called a ring. (Just in case we ran out of ridiculous theories.) I don't remember a Ring anywhere in MB. Are you referring to the council of Cultivationspren? And if so, are you suggesting that they are related to the Set? I guess I could sort of see it; they're trying to "Cultivate" (either by breeding or spiking) new Mistborn. Edited February 1, 2017 by 8giraffe8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa Posted April 18, 2017 Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 On 1/27/2017 at 4:09 AM, Tsidqiyah said: Has anyone one else seen the mathematical theme in the names of the Set? Yes. There was a discussion on this shortly after BoM was released. I noted back then that "suit" doesn't really fit the math theme as much as the rest and so I proposed that the theme was that of playing cards instead. I'll just paste here what I wrote there: Quote SET - This is a generic collective term for cards. Also, it means three of a kind in poker. SUIT - The set of cards with the same "pips" (Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs or Spades). SEQUENCE - The set of two or more cards adjacent in rank. ARRAY - The seven columns of cards dealt at the start of a solitaire game. SERIES - This is the only term that doesn't seem to have a card game-specific definition (though perhaps I just didn't use the right Google search keywords), but "a series of plays" or "a series of games" can apply to card games. I don't really know why the Set would use such a theme. Lots of card games involve bluffing and misdirection, so maybe the Set wanted a good analogy for the acts of deception that pervade their policies. "The world is a card game and you only win by fooling others," or some stupid thing Edwarn might say. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just another guyn Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 On 1/29/2017 at 8:52 AM, Kingsdaughter613 said: Trell is confirmed to be a Shard we know of. At the time that happened we knew of Harmony, Autonomy, Odium, Cultivation, Honor, Dominion, Devotion and Endowment. We also know it isn't Edgli. D&D are splintered as is Honor. That leaves Autonomy, Odium, Cultivation and Harmony himself as our options for Trell. As an aside, I wonder if the Shard opposite Ambition is Humility? Or an unknown shard, if trell is a shard. Or if trell is a shard, if trell is a single shard. How do we know what trell is? trell could be fain life for all we know. trell could also be several non shardic individuals, or a series of things happening that aren't all the same thing, but are related somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Just another guyn said: Or an unknown shard, if trell is a shard. Or if trell is a shard, if trell is a single shard. How do we know what trell is? trell could be fain life for all we know. trell could also be several non shardic individuals, or a series of things happening that aren't all the same thing, but are related somehow. Trell has a God metal. This says Shard. Which shard/shards we can't truly know yet. But to have it be a Non-shardic entity, the metal needs to be explained. Edited July 14, 2017 by Calderis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Just another guyn said: Or an unknown shard, if trell is a shard. Or if trell is a shard, if trell is a single shard. How do we know what trell is? trell could be fain life for all we know. trell could also be several non shardic individuals, or a series of things happening that aren't all the same thing, but are related somehow. Brandon explicitly said that the unknown metal is from a Shard that we know. Meaning that it is from 1) A Shard and 2) One whose existence we knew of in October of 2015. That leaves us with Odium and Autonomy as the two most likely candidates, though it's also possible they're working together and each contributing something different to the enterprise. Somewhat less likely but still possible would be a reformed Dominion or an amalgamation with Devotion, if only because the mathematical terminology fits what we know of Dominion's Intent and the 'Faceless Immortal' resembles the Selish legends of the svrakiss. Assuming that's based on something native to Sel and not a remnant of Odium's little vacation to the planet at any rate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter Posted July 15, 2017 Report Share Posted July 15, 2017 You know...I never really considered devotion (either/or/both) dominion to be an option for the identity of trell (with them being more or less dead and all)...and I totally realized the similarity between the red eyed mystery being and the legend of the svrakiss. For some reason I just never associated the two...but now you have me wondering. As you said, I don't think it's very likely...but you've got, me thinking maybe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 It's also possible for it to be the God Metal of a Shard, without the Shard actively having anything to do with it. For example: if I was an allomancer, and somehow managed to get a piece of an honor blade, I could probably burn it. Honor would not actually have to be involved. So Shard A could have arranged for Shard B's metal to enter Scadrial without Shard B actively being involved. This could allow Trellium to be the god Metal of, say, Dominion but Trell actually being, perhaps, Autonomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 On 7/14/2017 at 9:11 PM, hoidhunter said: You know...I never really considered devotion (either/or/both) dominion to be an option for the identity of trell (with them being more or less dead and all)...and I totally realized the similarity between the red eyed mystery being and the legend of the svrakiss. For some reason I just never associated the two...but now you have me wondering. As you said, I don't think it's very likely...but you've got, me thinking maybe... Before AU and White Sand, I thought 'trellium' was probably Dominion's god metal (or rather, the splinter-metal of a splinter of Dominion) and that 'Trell' was not a Shard but a name used by multiple beings. I'm leaning more toward the Autonomy theory now, given (AU and White Sand very minor spoilers) Spoiler Khriss talking about Autonomy meddling off-planet and the titles Mastrell/Lesstrell for Taldain's Sand Masters but we do know that there are no other Shards on Scadrial in AoL era, so the splinter-metal used by a non-shardic group theory is IMO still quite viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yitzi2 Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 The two top possibilities are Autonomy or from Sel (either Dominion, or a merging of Dominion and Devotion). Advantages for Autonomy: She's indicated to be an ally of Odium, who definitely wants Sazed taken out, and is presumably significant to the events of age 2 (given how specific the relative timing of age 2 and the Stormlight Archive plot needs to be). Plot-wise, Autonomy would be a good Shard for Kelsier to take up. Advantage for something from Sel: Assuming that the Trell won't be resolved until age 3 (likely, as the original plan didn't have a full series for age 2, and a war between Shards is Cosmere-significant enough that he wouldn't have just left it out; him having simply moved things around is possible though somewhat unlikely IMO), this would explain nicely why Brandon specifically wanted to do Elantris 2 before Mistborn age 3. Specific disadvantage for Dominion alone: A reformed Dominion would have neither the power to match Sazed like a merging of Devotion and Dominion would, nor the experience to overcome the power disparity like Bavadin might. Specific disadvantages for Dominion+Devotion: Such a Shard seems unlikely to be as aggressive and disruptive as Trell seems to be. Calling that "a shard we've seen before" is stretching it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 23 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: It's also possible for it to be the God Metal of a Shard, without the Shard actively having anything to do with it. For example: if I was an allomancer, and somehow managed to get a piece of an honor blade, I could probably burn it. Honor would not actually have to be involved. So Shard A could have arranged for Shard B's metal to enter Scadrial without Shard B actively being involved. No, you couldn't. Probably Shard needs to Invest into Scadrial for its godmetal to be usable in Metallic Arts. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, Oversleep said: No, you couldn't. Finally, I can use something more concrete than the "You're assuming it would be Allomantically Viable" WoB. Have an upvote Edited July 18, 2017 by The One Who Connects Spellcheck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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