DarkJester Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Ok. I was looking around and saw some posts about twinborns and how the work, and it got me to thinking... What would be the most dangerous twinborn to have running around? Let's say he's a mad man. You can choose his goal. Might be world domination, might be world destruction. You choose. For mine, I'm going with a twinborn that doesn't care if he lives. He wants the world to burn. On top of that, he's double iron. He's spent years storing and compounding his weight. Say he goes out one day and fires a rifle into to air and makes himself light as a feather. He lurches up after the bullet, and after a little hight he lets go and starts falling. Moments before he hits the ground he poors all his stored weight into himself. He doesn't get bigger but he's unimaginably heavy. When he hits, it's like a meteor hitting the ground. Someone just dropped a mountain... So... Who's your mad man? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirdrim Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) Double Zinc..compounding storage of mental quickness, as well as the ability to riot emotions. Gain a following easily by rioting emotions correctly, always one step ahead of the opposition, able to talk their way through almost anybody that is opposing them and not as susceptible to emotional alomancy. Basically the ability to do what Hitler, Hussein, Kim Il'Sung, Jong'Il, Jong'Un have done by inciting hatred and anger, fueled by despair and desperation and subjugating those who are a little less likely to succumb to hatred through fear and the loyalty of their followers. We live in a non-magical world, and we have dictators capable of convincing people en masse that they are a superior being through propagandistic education and censorship of information. We also have leaders capable of generating a huge following purely from the fear that dissention will result in death, and any attempt to organize against the dictator will result in being ousted by those who are either genuinely loyal, or fearful for their own death. Imagine this same type of situation, but with the ability to amplify anger, hatred, desperation, fear, disdain, etc. Even if there were an organization capable of resisting the emotional allomancy, the sheer number of followers would surely ensure a wide range of mistings, ferrings, and twinborn at their disposal. All of this while being capable of compounding mental quickness, which would allow them near-limitless ability to plan, predict, prepare, persuade and extensively analyze and revise propaganda material, flaws in defenses and escape plans, essentially this person would be able to have planning tenfold that of any dictator we've had so far, and they would have to trust fewer people due to their ability to do the bulk of the thinking themselves. Edit: Basically TLR's political machinations, without the supreme god-like being. Think how infrequently TLR needed to actually exercise his physical/magical prowess to rule. Edited January 12, 2017 by Mirdrim likeness to TLR 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkJester Posted January 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 I like that one. I could see this person being EXTREMELY intelligent. With compounded mental speed he could read a Sanderson novel in like 10 minutes and still have spare time to have it picked apart. If they were to turn towards more scholarly reading, they could hold the knowledge of the world in under a year, and apply it in ways never imagined... Scary indeed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeromancer Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 I'd go with Chromium compounder. Yeah, being a Leecher is basically worthless by itself, but imagine what a madman wielding fortune can do. Or, don't imagine, and read my list. First of all, money. Slots, lottery, poker, no matter what, this guy's winning it. In other words, your basic unlimited reserve of cash whenever you feel like. This can be used to fund small armies. That's starting off small, of course. If you really feel like it, try to have every person possible win Powerball at the same time, and watch the fireworks. The fun bit is when our CC decides to start feeling lucky. You know, basic stuff like randomly causing earthquakes. Volcanoes. Super volcanoes. Wandering near a nuclear power plant and randomly cause it to decay. Having moon-sized asteroids crash into the earth. Then there's more fun stuff, like luckily guessing the password to every single nuclear warhead on Earth. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 9 hours ago, DarkJester said: For mine, I'm going with a twinborn that doesn't care if he lives. He wants the world to burn. On top of that, he's double iron. He's spent years storing and compounding his weight. Say he goes out one day and fires a rifle into to air and makes himself light as a feather. He lurches up after the bullet, and after a little hight he lets go and starts falling. Moments before he hits the ground he poors all his stored weight into himself. He doesn't get bigger but he's unimaginably heavy. When he hits, it's like a meteor hitting the ground. Someone just dropped a mountain... This probably wouldn't actually work. The mass of the metalminds would likely be greater than the mass of the bullet, therefore resulting in the lurcher pulling the bullet back towards them. I'll also point out that feruchemical zinc mainly changes mental intuition, leaps in thought. It doesn't just generally speed up all thought process as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkJester Posted January 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 Still, he only need to get airborne. I was just throwing out an example of how, but we've seen flying machines in era two. So getting a little distance from the ground shouldn't be too much of a problem. Shoot. Just leap from a tall building and level a city for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 49 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said: I'll also point out that feruchemical zinc mainly changes mental intuition, leaps in thought. It doesn't just generally speed up all thought process as much. Hmm. The only first person POV we get of someone tapping a zincmind is in The Bands of Mourning, when Wax does so courtesy of the BoM. He analytically considers "a dozen" scenarios before deciding on a course of action, all in the space of time it takes Suit to say the phrase "its own". I think compounded Fortune is an interesting one, depending on how Fortune manifests in the Cosmere (recalling that there is, in fact, a Shard of Fortune, active enough for the IRE in Mistborn: Secret History to be paranoid about). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 37 minutes ago, robardin said: recalling that there is, in fact, a Shard of Fortune, active enough for the IRE in Mistborn: Secret History to be paranoid about That's no moon Shard... that we know of. Ire's concept of Fortune is basically the same thing that Chromium Ferrings manipulate. It's like there's Connection in every magic system or Identity. Personally, my opinion is there can't be a Shard of something that is the building block of cosmere - no Shard of Identity or Shard of Connection or Shard of Investiture. So no Shard of Fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 8 hours ago, Oversleep said: That's no moon Shard... that we know of. Ire's concept of Fortune is basically the same thing that Chromium Ferrings manipulate. It's like there's Connection in every magic system or Identity. Personally, my opinion is there can't be a Shard of something that is the building block of cosmere - no Shard of Identity or Shard of Connection or Shard of Investiture. So no Shard of Fortune. I'd think so too, but I read "Shard name" into the comment, "Not every coincidence is a sign of someone drawing upon Fortune", as one might "draw upon" Preservation to power Allomancy, and Fortune with a capital F. But that could also follow the convention of "Investiture" and "Identity" as capitalized Realmatic terms, and makes more sense. That does give us our first insight into what it'd be like to magically manipulate one's store of Fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeshadow227 Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 I'd say, aside from Compounding, an extremely powerful Twinborn would be someone with Feruchemical Nicrosil and Allomantic Steel. They could get a sizable amount of Investiture stored up via burning Steel and funneling the Investiture into metalminds, which means their power is as deep as their pockets. Once they have enough Steel-Investiture to, say, accelerate a coin to about 3 times the speed of sound, they walk into a bank, pull out a coin, and aim at a bank teller's head. All that is seen is a line of light punching through the stone and metal of the building, the aforementioned bank teller completely painting the walls with gore, as the sonic boom from the coin's acceleration incapacitates anyone who would have resisted. Then they simply grab all of the money and Steelpush away. What are the police going to do against a human railgun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 38 minutes ago, Shadeshadow227 said: I'd say, aside from Compounding, an extremely powerful Twinborn would be someone with Feruchemical Nicrosil and Allomantic Steel. They could get a sizable amount of Investiture stored up via burning Steel and funneling the Investiture into metalminds, which means their power is as deep as their pockets. Once they have enough Steel-Investiture to, say, accelerate a coin to about 3 times the speed of sound, they walk into a bank, pull out a coin, and aim at a bank teller's head. All that is seen is a line of light punching through the stone and metal of the building, the aforementioned bank teller completely painting the walls with gore, as the sonic boom from the coin's acceleration incapacitates anyone who would have resisted. Then they simply grab all of the money and Steelpush away. What are the police going to do against a human railgun? I don't think nicrosil stores kinetic investiture. We don't know enough to say for certain though. You could definitely store your ability to burn steel and compress that into a super-burn to achieve the effect you described though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceless Mist-Wraith Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 This isn't technically one person, but I always imagined a particularly powerful combination would be a Electrum-copper twinborn with the help of a Nicroburst. Essentially, the twinborn would burn electrum while the nicroburst boosted their powers. This would give them a pseudo-atium effect, and they would essentially know their entire future for the day/week/x amount of time. As this is happening, they would store the memory of the experience in a copper mind. The twinborn would then essentially have a complete recollection of his future, and all his possible futures. He could decide his own fate, manipulate others, and there would be no defense since he has already seen all of the possibilities. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erandeni Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 I think double iron would be like a terrorist, he stand in a building, then compuonds and the building knock down. Although is not that powerful, pewter-iron would be a tough guy, he can reduce his weight and use his enhanced strength to be faster and later increase his weight to hit even harder than a pewterarm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Zodiac Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 15 hours ago, robardin said: Hmm. The only first person POV we get of someone tapping a zincmind is in The Bands of Mourning, when Wax does so courtesy of the BoM. He analytically considers "a dozen" scenarios before deciding on a course of action, all in the space of time it takes Suit to say the phrase "its own". I think compounded Fortune is an interesting one, depending on how Fortune manifests in the Cosmere (recalling that there is, in fact, a Shard of Fortune, active enough for the IRE in Mistborn: Secret History to be paranoid about). No the first time we see a zincmind is when Sazed is fighting Marsh in well of ascension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 Just checked that: Saze uses zinc to tplot the tragectory of, and to catch, a lamp. In a couple of seconds. It isn't as obvious from the writing, but it appears to be the same thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 Double Steel would be incredibly scary; an evil Steel Compounder could do enormous damage, but probably not take over the world. On 1/12/2017 at 0:12 PM, Mirdrim said: Double Zinc..compounding storage of mental quickness, as well as the ability to riot emotions. Gain a following easily by rioting emotions correctly, always one step ahead of the opposition, able to talk their way through almost anybody that is opposing them and not as susceptible to emotional alomancy. Zinc Compounding might let a person who already had the right talents and skills to be a politician / demagogue be a fearfully effective one, but I don't think it would do it 'by itself' for an 'average' person. Mental speed alone may not let you do stuff that would otherwise be beyond you even given enough time - it depends on whether the 'intuitive leaps' are just a result of thinking really really fast. And if you use Rioting heavily in public, and become famous, it'll quickly become known you're a Rioter, which will make people suspicious of you. In Era 2 (when Twinborn are around) emotional allomancy is well-understood & Seekers aren't that rare. Depending on what exactly you can do with Connection besides speak foreign languages, it might actually be better than Zinc Feruchemy for this purpose - despite the lack of Compounding. 14 hours ago, Shadeshadow227 said: What are the police going to do against a human railgun? Aluminum bullets? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeromancer Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 On 1/13/2017 at 0:19 PM, Shadeshadow227 said: What are the police going to do against a human railgun? Welllllll, that's technically not a railgun, because a railgun uses electromagnetism through conductors along the barrel, the projectile as part of a circuit, and usually have the projectiles fired at subsonic velocity first. Also, like stated frequently on these kinds of discussion, you have to watch out for the Law of Unintended Consequence a la Newton's Third Law. Every action has a equal and opposite reaction. You do not want to fire a railgun-level-kinetics projectile from your hand. Because plasma. Not a plasma railgun, the plasma trail following the railgun projectile. Why include the plasma railgun hyperlink? Because, face it, 'plasma railgun' is a term which you wish existed until you found out it did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrim Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 I just found this WoB, came here to make a thread about it, and happened upon this related thread. Quote My friend wants to know how fast steel compounders could possibly go, can they run up walls or over water like the Flash? Blightsong *jokingly* Can they run through time? Brandon Sanderson Steelrunners and resist a lot things due to the power, like they can withstand the Gs they are out through, but they can't ignore wind resistance and friction. They will burn up if they start running too quickly. Can any of you science nerds expound on Brandon's answer to more directly answer the original question? How fast could someone run before they burnt up? Would that be fast enough for them to run up walls or over water etc. like the Flash? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Matrim said: Would that be fast enough for them to run up walls Scientifical answer: depends on how high that wall is. Edited January 16, 2017 by Oversleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 Depends how angled the wall is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkJester Posted January 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Depends on if that person is also an Edgedancer and slicked themselves against the wind... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 what does a copper compounder do? if they burn copper with memories stored in it, do the memories come back more vivid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elenion Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 9 hours ago, Matrim said: Can any of you science nerds expound on Brandon's answer to more directly answer the original question? I love doing stuff like this, with Google's help of course. 9 hours ago, Matrim said: How fast could someone run before they burnt up? Some Googling tells me that heating due to friction against the air is negligible at subsonic speeds. So as long as your Steelrunner doesn't break the sound barrier (340.29 m/s, or 767.29 MPH), you're completely safe from burning up. You probably wouldn't want to go any faster than that in any "real-world" scenarios, anyway. 9 hours ago, Matrim said: Would that be fast enough for them to run up walls or over water etc. like the Flash? Interesting question. Running up walls I say no to, because gravity appears to affect Steelrunners as if they were in normal time (else they could get no traction on the ground because they'd have to float slowly down after each step). This makes sense due to the Steelrunner's Connection to their planet. Therefore, their speed wouldn't help them, so they wouldn't be able to run on a wall any more than you or I could. As for running on water, I'll give that a tentative yes. Because the Steelrunning doesn't affect the water's surface tension like it does the Steelrunner's gravity, it would be the same as if an extremely fast human ran on normal water. A human going 30 m/s could do this (source), so I don't see why a Steelrunner couldn't. Basically, the Steelrunner would feel like they were running on a cornstarch/water mixture (YouTube the MythBusters doing that if you're unfamiliar with the concept). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erandeni Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 12 hours ago, Matrim said: Can any of you science nerds expound on Brandon's answer to more directly answer the original question? Now you just awake the nerd in me. Ok, as @Elenion said at low speed the heating due to air friction is minimal, but at speeds near of 340 m/s this heating increase, a plane has no problem with that, but I think a human could die for it, so a steel compounder couldn´t run at the sound speed, he has to run a bit slower(<250-300 m/s). But if he had hemalurgic spikes, well this changes things, he would needed ferruchemical brass, in order to decrease the heating due to friction and allomantic pewter to resist the force due to the break of the sound barrier, with that he maybe could run even faster than 23 km/s, depends how strong pewter makes he and how much heat he can store. This makes me think how fast the Lord Ruler could really run. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 16 hours ago, Matrim said: I just found this WoB, came here to make a thread about it, and happened upon this related thread. Can any of you science nerds expound on Brandon's answer to more directly answer the original question? How fast could someone run before they burnt up? Would that be fast enough for them to run up walls or over water etc. like the Flash? I heard flash and I came running. If you had crossover powers in the 4th era and boosted them all you could make a justice league. Or avengers. However you prefer it. Here: Superman Lord ruler power set. No laser vision sorry Wonderwoman- pewter and steel plus aluminum bracelets? Batman-rich guy Flash: steelrunning plus edgedancer powers Green lantern- I got nothing. Maybe breath? Cyborg- an allomantic cyborg. Look out world Green arrow- rich guy with steel pushing powers with no gun. Captain America - steelpushing, pewter Draw your own conclusions about other heroes. Or edit mine. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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