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Taln and his sword

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So... I was wondering why Dalinar hears att scream when summoning the blade he took from Taln in order to pin Amaram down as a liar.

When the Stormfather accepts his oath on top of Urithiru he (like Kaladin and Renaren) hears the scream of the dead spren of which it is "made" from (lacking a better word). But if it realy was a honorblade Dalinar was holding it should not have that effect on him. Kaladin, after picking up Szeth's honorblade, notes that he does not hear anything and remaks on it.

Is the blade Taln carried att fake, did someone swap it- if so when, and who? 

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Quote

Question

How was Dalinar able to bond Taln’s shardblade-- honorblade?

Brandon Sanderson

It’s not Taln’s honorblade.

Source

Quote

Question

It was not? So what happened to the Honorblade that the Herald had?

Brandon Sanderson

Nobody kno- Well, somebody knows, but it is not known to the main characters.

Question

Can I ask if uh, Hoid-

Brandon Sanderson

If Hoid knows?

Question

Yeah.

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid did not take it, but I’m not answering whether he knows.

Source   It's a different blade than the one Taln had in WoK. (They are even described differently iirc)

Quote

Question

Did Hoid switch out the blades?

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid did not switch out the blades, but good question.

Source   Hoid did not switch the blades out, but he may be aware that they are switched.

We don't know if his blade was real, but we assume so. There was indeed a swap, but we don't know who.

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So it is another Honorblade right? As Dalinar can't hear the screaming, as Kaladin doesn't hear it when he takes Szeths Honorblade? 

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21 minutes ago, KereDerek said:

So it is another Honorblade right? As Dalinar can't hear the screaming, as Kaladin doesn't hear it when he takes Szeths Honorblade? 

No, the whole point is that as soon as Dalinar bonded the Stormfather, he did hear screaming, outing the blade as being a normal shardblade. If you look at the physical description of Taln's blade at the end of WoK and in WoR, you can see that they are clearly two different blades.

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11 minutes ago, randuir said:

No, the whole point is that as soon as Dalinar bonded the Stormfather, he did hear screaming, outing the blade as being a normal shardblade. If you look at the physical description of Taln's blade at the end of WoK and in WoR, you can see that they are clearly two different blades.

I forgot the bit about the blade screaming after Dalinar and the Stormfather bonded. Thanks for the clarification. 

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Yeah that is the important bit. He never had a problem with shardblades until after. That is also why some people believe that until Dalinar asked the stormfather to make him a Radiant (so that he could lead them), he was not one. Whether that is true or matters is another question.

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If something fishy's going on, blame Hoid. I'm guessing he's behind the swap.

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3 minutes ago, Rob Lucci said:

If something fishy's going on, blame Hoid. I'm guessing he's behind the swap.

You should look at the WoB's I linked earlier. Hoid did not take it, nor did he swap the blades, but he may know that a swap happened.

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Sorry to bump an older thread (just a few weeks though so hopefully it's not too big of a deal). But I was re-reading the WoK epilogue last night, and I had a question about the blade Taln (or the man who claims to be Taln) is carrying. This was the blade described as "long, narrow, and straight, shaped like an enormous spike." I don't have the book on me right now, but I'm pretty sure shortly after this description is given, Taln drops the blade, and it clinks against the ground, and the book doesn't seem to suggest that the blade turns to mist (like a Shardblade normally would).

I know it's been confirmed that this blade has been switched with the one that's seen in WoR, but my question was about why the Shardblade didn't disappear when Taln dropped it? I can try to look up the exact wording when I have access to the book later, but I thought I'd ask about it while it was on my mind. I thought it was pretty difficult to keep a blade from turning back to mist if the person bonded to it wasn't physically holding it.

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Because 'the man who calls himself Taln and is almost certain to be Taln' would presumably be carrying an Honorblade rather than a garden-variety Shardblade. They behave differently; witness the Prologue where Kalak notes that Honorblades would vanish if the bearer died, which is the exact opposite of how a Shardblade behaves.

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17 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

Sorry to bump an older thread (just a few weeks though so hopefully it's not too big of a deal). But I was re-reading the WoK epilogue last night, and I had a question about the blade Taln (or the man who claims to be Taln) is carrying. This was the blade described as "long, narrow, and straight, shaped like an enormous spike." I don't have the book on me right now, but I'm pretty sure shortly after this description is given, Taln drops the blade, and it clinks against the ground, and the book doesn't seem to suggest that the blade turns to mist (like a Shardblade normally would).

I know it's been confirmed that this blade has been switched with the one that's seen in WoR, but my question was about why the Shardblade didn't disappear when Taln dropped it? I can try to look up the exact wording when I have access to the book later, but I thought I'd ask about it while it was on my mind. I thought it was pretty difficult to keep a blade from turning back to mist if the person bonded to it wasn't physically holding it.

 

4 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Because 'the man who calls himself Taln and is almost certain to be Taln' would presumably be carrying an Honorblade rather than a garden-variety Shardblade. They behave differently; witness the Prologue where Kalak notes that Honorblades would vanish if the bearer died, which is the exact opposite of how a Shardblade behaves.

Yeah, I think that blade is almost certainly Taln's Honorblade, which behaves differently (IIRC, they have to will it to dismiss instead of willing it to stay like a Shardblade, though I don't recall if that's explicitly stated).  

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The Honorblade vs Shardblade difference did cross my mind, I just forgot where any references to their exact differences were. Makes sense, @Weltall

@Jondesu, this makes me even more curious to know where that blade ended up since Honorblades would definitely be more rare than regular Shardblades. 

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30 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

The Honorblade vs Shardblade difference did cross my mind, I just forgot where any references to their exact differences were. Makes sense, @Weltall

@Jondesu, this makes me even more curious to know where that blade ended up since Honorblades would definitely be more rare than regular Shardblades. 

There's only 10, in fact, and we know Nale has his (and Jezrien's was with Szeth and now with Kaladin).

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On 01/03/2017 at 7:55 AM, Jondesu said:

There's only 10, in fact, and we know Nale has his (and Jezrien's was with Szeth and now with Kaladin).

IIRC in one of Szeth's interludes he said the Shin had I think 7 honourblades in their possession 

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4 hours ago, TamagoDono said:

IIRC in one of Szeth's interludes he said the Shin had I think 7 honourblades in their possession 

Yep, so the current status is as follows:

The Shin have 7 of the blades (all those except Jezrien's, Nale's, and Taln's)

Kaladin/Dalinar has Jezrien's Honorblade.

Nale has his own Honorblade.

Taln's Honorblade is missing, and all we know is that Hoid is not the one who took it.

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6 minutes ago, BeskarKomrk said:

Yep, so the current status is as follows:

The Shin have 7 of the blades (all those except Jezrien's, Nale's, and Taln's)

Kaladin/Dalinar has Jezrien's Honorblade.

Nale has his own Honorblade.

Taln's Honorblade is missing, and all we know is that Hoid is not the one who took it.

... with the minor caveat that Taravangian claims that one of the seven was stolen from the Shin recently.

Assuming that he wasn't lying to dflect Szeth's frustrations, of course, which is always possible.

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31 minutes ago, Quiver said:

... with the minor caveat that Taravangian claims that one of the seven was stolen from the Shin recently.

Assuming that he wasn't lying to dflect Szeth's frustrations, of course, which is always possible.

I think it's very likely that Mr. T was lying to Szeth, personally, but I'm not sure if we have any WoBs that specifically confirm that. When I read the scene, with the context of Taravangian wondering how Szeth will react when he finds out the Voidbringers are back, it seems likely to me that Taravangian was worried that Szeth would stop obeying him and kill him on the spot if he found out that there was a real Surgebinder out there. But until we get that info in the book or via WoB, the summary up above does have a small asterisk on it.

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Amaram has the honorblade. Note that he mentions a precious cargo in his trunks before he fetches 'Taln'.

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1 hour ago, ScavellTane said:

Amaram has the honorblade. Note that he mentions a precious cargo in his trunks before he fetches 'Taln'.

He thought he had the Honorblade. In reality he had the blade that Dalinar had bonded and placed back in the hiding place to catch Amaram in the lie. 

The blade in question was never the Honorblade though, as that was switched at some point between tWoK epilogue, and Taln's arrival to the Shattered Plains. The description between the two blades is unquestionably different.

Edit: all of which has already been covered in this thread. 

Edited by Calderis
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I'm saying all that happened between him, Dalinar and Borden was subterfuge on Amaram's part. He has the honorblade, somehow. Its just a guess base on that one little line.

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2 hours ago, ScavellTane said:

I'm saying all that happened between him, Dalinar and Borden was subterfuge on Amaram's part. He has the honorblade, somehow. Its just a guess base on that one little line.

How could that be the case when it appears the Honorblade was swapped before Dalinar received the shardblade, and probably before it left Kholinar? Can you quote the specific passage?

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I don't have the text for it because I listen to the GraphicAudio version. It's at the end of WoR when Amaram was writing in his carriage, before he enters and is attacked at the asylum. Its the part where he mentions that the cost of Dalinars friendship was steep. Granted that he could be talking about his shardplate but i don't think so. Amaram is in a secret society so technically he should not be operating alone.

Edited by ScavellTane
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14 hours ago, ScavellTane said:

Amaram has the honorblade. Note that he mentions a precious cargo in his trunks before he fetches 'Taln'.

I always interpreted that as referring to 'Taln', whom he was on his way to 'secretly remove from the care of the ardents and take with him to places unknown' (aka 'steal and smuggle', as one might do to some cargo). Bear in mind that 'Taln' is currently largely unresponsive and unable to fend for himself (apart from, perhaps, mortal combat scenarios); as such, he is functionally an object at the moment.

Given the lack of any other evidence that Amaram has done anything else of use to Restates recently, I personally think this makes most sense.

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The thing is, he mentions the precious cargo as being contained in the trunk along with his maps, before he goes to 'Taln'.

Note this is from the GraphicAudio version:

"Amaram spares a glance for the back of the coach that contained a precious cargo including all of his map, notes and theories."

Edited by ScavellTane
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