Hoid's Lerasium

[KasA97]

Sorry if this theory is out there. If it is, I couldn't find it. 

We know that lerasium has an unknown effect that has something to do with rewriting Spiritual DNA. Assuming that Hold has not used the bead yet (making the scene in WoR where he appears to use allomancy a red herring), he could potentially use it to overwrite his inability to hurt people.

It seems to me that this restriction on Hoid  has to be Spiritual in nature because only manipulation of Spiritual DNA can have such a fundamental effect. Considering that lerasium can rewrite spiritual DNA, I think Hoid is saving the bead to rewrite his own Spiritual DNA in case he ever needs to hurt someone. Not being able to harm anyone seems a pretty big limitation on Hoid considering his goals are so massive and complicated. Over the course of his journey when he has no other choice he will probably need to hurt someone. The lerasium bead can give him that ability when he needs it. He hasn't used it yet because hurting people is against his nature, and he's just waiting for the right moment for when he needs it. He also probably wants to use allomancy (which is a side effect).

Somewhat unrelated question. If Hoid wants to use allomancy off Scadrial, how does he channel Preservation's power? Metals are only the connection to Preservation which actually fuels allomancy. My theory is that he just needs a strong Connection to Preservation or find a way to fuel it with other forms of investiture. Apparently all the magic systems are part of the same magic system so there's probably more to see on that. 

[Spoolofwhool]

You can tap Preservation's power anywhere in the Cosmere. The power is located in the Spiritual Realm which is space-independent so distance has no effect.

[emailanimal]

2 hours ago, KasA97 said:

Assuming that Hold has not used the bead yet (making the scene in WoR where he appears to use allomancy a red herring),

The most recent WoB on this topic literally says "You saw him use Allomancy. You know he took the lerasium bead. Put two and two together."

[+Extesian]

Its some nice thinking but indeed the WoB from last month is here.

Quote

NTERVIEW: Dec 6th, 2016

Herald Washington Library Center-AU Tour (Paraphrased)

QUESTION

When Hoid took the bead of Lerasium, did he actually eat it or did he just hang on to it?

BRANDON SANDERSON

You have seen him use allomancy in other books, so… that’s your answer

As for location of using magic, most Shards have their power anchored in the Spiritual Realm which is location-independent, you only see location being a serious issue with magic like the Sel-based ones, where it is anchored in the Cognitive Realm.

[Kered]

Side question, when did he use allomancy? Was it during one of the stories he told Kaladin, or when he was on Sel? 

[Landis963]

26 minutes ago, KereDerek said:

Side question, when did he use allomancy? Was it during one of the stories he told Kaladin, or when he was on Sel? 

It was a Shallan flashback in WoR.  Hoid dumped a mysterious powder into his own drink, gulped it down, then people started to act ever-so-slightly out of character when Hoid was focused on them.  

[Ciridae]

Is it possible that he only used part of the lerasium? Would using only a bit of his bead turn him into a weak mistborn? Hoid isn't the type to duralumin-push people off their horses or control armies of koloss. He seems more the type to nudge people gently into a certain direction, so even watered down emotional allomancy is sufficient for his methods. You dont have to be a crazy powerful allomacer to profit from steelsight or a minor tin boost. I think he still has an ace up his sleeve and some lerasium left over. 

[Kered]

9 hours ago, Landis963 said:

It was a Shallan flashback in WoR.  Hoid dumped a mysterious powder into his own drink, gulped it down, then people started to act ever-so-slightly out of character when Hoid was focused on them.  

Ahh, it appears that I need to do another read through. Thanks. 

[+Extesian]

1 hour ago, Ciridae said:

Is it possible that he only used part of the lerasium? Would using only a bit of his bead turn him into a weak mistborn? Hoid isn't the type to duralumin-push people off their horses or control armies of koloss. He seems more the type to nudge people gently into a certain direction, so even watered down emotional allomancy is sufficient for his methods. You dont have to be a crazy powerful allomacer to profit from steelsight or a minor tin boost. I think he still has an ace up his sleeve and some lerasium left over. 

Lerasium alloys turn you into a Misting of that alloy so maybe he only has used it for certain metals. He could be an allomancer but not a Mistborn.

[+robardin]

13 minutes ago, Extesian said:

Lerasium alloys turn you into a Misting of that alloy so maybe he only has used it for certain metals. He could be an allomancer but not a Mistborn.

I think this has been implied in a few WoB's I've read, but I wonder as to why Hoid would do this, except to "stretch out" the lerasium bead.  Perhaps someone consuming an entire bead becomes Mistborn, but can become a Misting using just 1/16 or some fraction of the bead and alloying it with the appropriate metal.

However, since you can't be a Double Misting even with lerasium - you can't eat two beads, one of lerasium+zinc and one of lerasium+brass to become a Soother/Rioter - why would one do this, and not become a full Mistborn? It's not like Hoid has minions or allies we've seen, who he'd like to make Mistings the better to help him out. He's a lone wolf. Perhaps being full Mistborn would "overweight" him to Preservation in a way that would mess up Hoid's collection of Shardic powers?

I've also wondered why he didn't take all the lerasium (both beads there), since it's obviously a dangerously powerful thing, you might think he'd want to control who got a hold of it.

 

[The One Who Connects]

26 minutes ago, robardin said:

However, since you can't be a Double Misting even with Lerasium - you can't eat two beads, one of Lerasium+zinc and one of Lerasium+brass to become a Soother/Rioter - why would one do this, and not become a full Mistborn?

Here, Question 30

Quote

the_archduke

Could you become a double misting if you took two Lerasium/metal alloy beads (I think the example was iron and steel) at the same time?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

---

29 minutes ago, robardin said:

I've also wondered why he didn't take all the Lerasium (both beads there), since it's obviously a dangerously powerful thing, you might think he'd want to control who got a hold of it.

Same place, question 35

Quote

Paladin Brewer

Why did Hoid not take both beads of Lerasium?

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid has an innate ability to know where he needs to be and what he needs to do.

 

[+Extesian]

Quote

the_archduke

Could you become a double misting if you took two Lerasium/metal alloy beads (I think the example was iron and steel) at the same time?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

But maybe an alloy requires much less lerasium than the other metal so you could make many times the number of alloys? So he takes an alloy when he needs to add a power but keeps the rest for making other alloys for others to use. Lerasium won't exist again so he may be hoarding it for when more Mistings are needed? Unless that WoB is saying you can only have more than one if you take them at the same time - is there a WoB saying taking one subsequently will just rewrite the first one leaving you with one power?

Edited January 12, 2017 by Extesian
For clarity

[Erinzard]

So it's really a stretch, but I could only come up with two reasons why he might not want to be a full mistborn. By not becoming mistborn he could prevent the chance that he'd ever be forced to burn aluminum to wipe out his metals as Vin was (extremely unlikely, since Hoid is super powerful and wiping your metals might have advantages at times too) OR becoming full mistborn might alter his sDNA in a way that would conflict with other changes he's already made or plans on making in the future to his own spirit web.

[Djarskublar]

I have discussed this in the past, and the conclusion I came to was that he wants to use it to become an Elantrian.

I fully agree with the idea of him only using part of the bead to become a moderately powerful Mistborn. Mistborn are too OP to not want to do that.

On 1/10/2017 at 9:45 PM, Extesian said:

Herald Washington Library Center-AU Tour (Paraphrased)

QUESTION

When Hoid took the bead of Lerasium, did he actually eat it or did he just hang on to it?

BRANDON SANDERSON

You have seen him use allomancy in other books, so… that’s your answer

That is exactly what I would say if he had done both by only eating part of it. You have seen him use Allomancy. That doesn't mean you have seen him use it at 'Lerasium Mistborn' level. He was answering the question relatively straightforwardly, except for the detail of how much he ate. Why say something confusing like that if he was fine with confirming it? I see two possible answers. One: he only ate part of the bead. Two: he is using a medallion, which is also entirely possible.

[Oversleep]

19 minutes ago, Djarskublar said:

I see two possible answers. One: he only ate part of the bead.

There was a WoB that Hoid would rather eat the whole bead. I'll look for it.

EDIT: Haven't found it yet but this seems to imply he has burned it:

Quote

Question

Can you share any abilities that Hoid has accrued so far in the books, has he-- I can't even pronounce the L-word...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, lerasium, he is indeed an Allomancer. That has happened. I haven't confirmed much else, but he does have that.
source

 

Edited January 15, 2017 by Oversleep

[Yata]

12 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

I have discussed this in the past, and the conclusion I came to was that he wants to use it to become an Elantrian.

Regardless of what He did with the Lerasium once he obtained, we have a WoB about "He originally searched the Lerasium to obtain allomancy"

[Oversleep]

23 minutes ago, Yata said:

Regardless of what He did with the Lerasium once he obtained, we have a WoB about "He originally searched the Lerasium to obtain allomancy"

Yeah, but that "originally" implies his goal changed.

And we have no WoB officially stating "Yes, Hoid burned lerasium". Maybe Brandon thinks it's something obvious we should have picked on: 1) he took lerasium 2) he used Allomancy. Or maybe there's something else going on.

[Landis963]

8 hours ago, Oversleep said:

Yeah, but that "originally" implies his goal changed.

And we have no WoB officially stating "Yes, Hoid burned lerasium". Maybe Brandon thinks it's something obvious we should have picked on: 1) he took lerasium 2) he used Allomancy. Or maybe there's something else going on.

In recent interrogations interviews Brandon's official word on the matter is "He took a bead of lerasium, he's used allomancy, you figure it out."  I take this to mean that 2+2 does in fact equal 4, no more no less.  Coupling that with snarky remarks Hoid himself has made on the matter (e.g. "I protect [the element] like I protect my own skin") and it should be very clear-cut and obvious.  But then again, this fandom wouldn't be the same if we didn't muddy up even the clearest of Cosmere issues.  

[Oversleep]

IIRC "the element" is something related to unpublished works. Not lerasium.

[Landis963]

4 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

IIRC "the element" is something related to unpublished works. Not lerasium.

Is there a WoB on that?  

[Djarskublar]

One of us really just needs to ask how much of it he has used and for what purpose(s). The fact that we are even having this discussion is kind of pitiful once you consider how many times this question has been asked, especially since, unless the answer is something other than 'for Allomancy,' it isn't particularly game changing at this point since we have seen him use Allomancy. It sounds like he is either pulling our legs with his answers, or he is fed up with the question. It is entirely possible that he just burned the darn thing and was done, but we don't know that for sure. Lerasium is just so interesting though, so I don't want the last known piece of the stuff to be used for something so... common (the more archaic meaning, I guess).

[I'm_a_Stick]

in Mistborn secret history.. when Kelsier tells about his encounter with the drifter ( Hoid/wit ) to Fuzz ( Preservation/leras ), Fuzz mentions Hoid as Cephandrius (may be his real name or the name he used before shattering.)

and this "He stole a bit of my essence, distilled and pure,” Fuzz explained. “It can Invest a human, grant him or her Allomancy.”

why say "him or her" unless he is referring to some women in hoid's life? its just a theory, what do u guys think about it?

[Thanatos]

I'm_a_Stick

I think Leras was generalizing. 

At that time he was not 100% in the head.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Thanatos

[The One Who Connects]

9 hours ago, I'm_a_Stick said:

why say "him or her" unless he is referring to some women in hoid's life? its just a theory, what do u guys think about it?

It's ... not something to dismiss out of hand. Given that Hoid has pre-Shattering magic, perhaps he figured he took it for someone else

However, i do think he was explaining what Lerasium did to Kelsier, hence the "grant anyone Allomancy" bit