Erunion

Fools <-> Heralds Theory

22 posts in this topic

So, upon reading Edgedancer, a theory coalesced in my mind. 

It is my belief that the 10 Heralds (or, at least, the 9 who stayed) are now behaving as the 10 Fools. 
Or at least, they're now behaving as an inversion of their attributes (which is what I believe the Fools to be, inversions of the Heraldic archetype). 

Following this paradigm, Nale (who is supposed to be Just/Confident) is extremely unjust (see him murdering the urchin), but remains confident. Furthermore, he has allowed himself to be completely deceived.
From his discussions, we know that Jezrien (Protective/Leading) is doing anything but leading (although he may still be being protective?). 
We also have hints that Ishi (name? - but Pius/Guiding) is likely either gone evil (inversion of piety), or is misleading people unintentionally (inversion of guiding). 
Also, Poor Taln was Dependable/Resourceful enough for a time, but has now broken, becoming impossible to depend on and without any resources. 


As an additional note of interest to this theory: the Everstorm came only after Taln, the last of the Heralds, allowed his behaviour to be inverted. While he remained Dependable/Resourceful, the Everstorm was held at bay.

(This in turn leads to ANOTHER crazy theory: to stop the everstorm you need all 10 heralds to get their acts together? Or possibly to be replaced by 10 new Heralds?)
 

16

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i dont know if i agree

at least to the ten fools part . we only know of two:

  • Cabin : who acts like a child although he is an adult.
  • Eshu  : who speaks of things he does not understand in front of those who do.

those two could be taken as the contrary of Battar(wise)  and Paliah(learned) but they are the only "inteligence" driven heralds but there are many more aspects of stupidity  for the ten fools to impersonate . Plus it would be hard for Battar or anyone for that matter to act like a child for a long period of time 

apart from that i realy dig your idea about the inverse of characteristics . an other one you could had mentioned is Shalash 

Spoiler

when she destoys art in a gallery , the opposite of creativity 

though they could just be in hiding  and i do kinda belive that Nale was justified in his killings according to laws (even if i liked Ym as a character) and he even lets lift go after she is pardoned for her crimes 

so .... what was thw point of this post ?    i have  no stormin idea

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we have a WOB that says that there is an extra step between the Heralds and the idea of the Ten Fools. My understanding of it is that the so-called Ten Fools were possibly leaders, probably Radiants, that became infamous. Maybe during the time that the other kingdoms began to resent Urithiru. 

I agree that the Herald's natures have been corrupted, though not necessarily inverted in every case. We do know that they are all insane, and insane in different ways.

(Sorry, posting frome my mobile due to power outage, so it's short.)

Edited by Corax
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Argent said:

Perhaps I can refer you to a similar theory of mine? :)

More details, I like it! 

I think that my theory has two big extra things that warrant discussion: 

Was it possible for an everstorm to come before all the heralds were perverted/twisted? 
What would happen if all the heralds were to recover themselves (or be replaced)?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Argent said:

Perhaps I can refer you to a similar theory of mine? :)

I think there's some more to add to this since new information has been brought about with Edgedancer, spoilers below:

Spoiler

Ishar isn't, in my opinion, going to be a dirty old man. The Heralds retain their attributes but twist them. He's guiding still, but guiding the wrong way. He's still pious, but perhaps his piety is towards Odium/Cultivation and not Honor.

Not sure where else to put this, or if it's been mentioned before, but there it is.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Garglemesh said:

I think there's some more to add to this since new information has been brought about with Edgedancer, spoilers below:

Oh, of course. I didn't mean to say that I consider this thread to be a duplicate of mine. I just wanted to offer my own thoughts on the topic by being lazy and not writing them again :)

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I certainly think that there is some sort of connection between the Fools and the Heralds. I also think though, that the descriptions of the Fools might not completely match with the Heralds. All things change with time, and it would not be unrealistic to assume that the Heralds are not exactly like their Fool counterpart.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/9/2017 at 9:52 AM, Argent said:

Perhaps I can refer you to a similar theory of mine? :)

Gold. This was something I was chewing on for a while, and that post helped fill in some blanks. 

 

As for this, I think Nale's actions in Edgedancer make this theory more plausible that it already was. With his reaction at the end, and how his dialogue is styled throughout the story, you defiantly get the vibe that he's broken and not who the Herald of Justice should be.   

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a thought I had; Jezrian could be Cabin. An infant sits around drooling, has no self control, and has unclear, random speech at first. The same traits could easily be applied to an alcoholic, which we are told Jezrian is.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel that once Taln emerges from his stupor it will be with a murderous vengeance. For those who left him to literally burn in hell.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/26/2017 at 11:53 PM, Kingsdaughter613 said:

The same traits could easily be applied to an alcoholic, which we are told Jezrian is.

We don't actually know that. It's not even implied. The idea comes from a somewhat popular fan theory that Jezrien was the drunken "Have you seen me?" man Szeth passes by in Kholinar. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps the insanity each of the Heralds develops is an inversion of their associated Order's ideals. We know Shallash is spreading the wrong kind of lies by defacing art around the world, Nale had a warped and disturbed sense of justice, perhaps Ishar is now seeking to divide men by preventing the Radiants from returning.

 

Also Stonewardens were known for strong will, and after 4500 years of torture Taln has proven this beyond a doubt, but now his will is broken. The insanity they all face is a perversion of their individual orders.

Edited by Radiant_Jaeger
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Radiant_Jaeger said:

Perhaps the insanity each of the Heralds develops is an inversion of their associated Order's ideals. We know Shallash is spreading the wrong kind of lies by defacing art around the world, Nale had a warped and disturbed sense of justice, perhaps Ishar is now seeking to divide men by preventing the Radiants from returning.

 

Also Stonewardens were known for strong will, and after 4500 years of torture Taln has proven this beyond a doubt, but now his will is broken. The insanity they all face is a perversion of their individual orders.

I mean... both this theory and my own version of it say the same thing.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Argent Hmm I didn't think so because the fools aren't the opposite of each herald they're each examples of ignorance, not necessarily malicious traits such as the heralds (except Taln) have now. 

 

Also I think their insanities are against the ideals of the orders. Dividing men, corrupting justice, destroying art and spreading (the bad kind of) lies

Edited by Radiant_Jaeger
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, I apologize - I hadn't read this thread in a while, and while I remembered it was somewhat similar to my own theory (which runs much more in line with your idea, @Radiant_Jaeger - i.e. the Heralds have turned into opposites of their former selves), I had apparently misremembered the details.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would Taln be affected by this? He didn't stick around like the other 9. Maybe his "brokenness" is just a side effect of Damnation, rather than the corruption set upon the other Heralds. I do like this theory quite a lot, though. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@bleeder Well in the case of Taln we have 4500 years of torture rather than just becoming insane on his own. 

 

Stonewardens were "fiercely loyal and dependable" with his current mental state I'd say not so dependable and once he learns that the other 9 heralds betrayed him and their oaths after he becomes lucid.

I'd say he might develop some anger issues.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Radiant_Jaeger said:

@bleeder Well in the case of Taln we have 4500 years of torture rather than just becoming insane on his own. 

 

Stonewardens were "fiercely loyal and dependable" with his current mental state I'd say not so dependable and once he learns that the other 9 heralds betrayed him and their oaths after he becomes lucid.

I'd say he might develop some anger issues.

His fierceness might be put to... other uses, yes. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a somewhat relevant WoB:
 

Quote

 

INTERVIEW: Feb 28th, 2011

GUNSLINGERS ()

The number 10 seems to be a recurring theme in this world. Are the Ten Fools the antithesis of the ten orders of the Knights Radiant?

Have you ever killed off a character and later regretted it?

When writing a battle scene in which thousands die do those deaths affect you in any way?

BRANDON SANDERSON

First Question: Yes, ten is a number of mythological import in the world. The Ten Fools are, essentially, the opposites of the Ten Heralds—who each represented an ideal. (Those ideals were later adopted by the orders of Knights Radiant, so yes, there is a connection—but there's a step between them.)

TAGS

 



 
Edited by Iron Eyes
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.