Erunion Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 So, upon reading Edgedancer, a theory coalesced in my mind. It is my belief that the 10 Heralds (or, at least, the 9 who stayed) are now behaving as the 10 Fools. Or at least, they're now behaving as an inversion of their attributes (which is what I believe the Fools to be, inversions of the Heraldic archetype). Following this paradigm, Nale (who is supposed to be Just/Confident) is extremely unjust (see him murdering the urchin), but remains confident. Furthermore, he has allowed himself to be completely deceived. From his discussions, we know that Jezrien (Protective/Leading) is doing anything but leading (although he may still be being protective?). We also have hints that Ishi (name? - but Pius/Guiding) is likely either gone evil (inversion of piety), or is misleading people unintentionally (inversion of guiding). Also, Poor Taln was Dependable/Resourceful enough for a time, but has now broken, becoming impossible to depend on and without any resources. As an additional note of interest to this theory: the Everstorm came only after Taln, the last of the Heralds, allowed his behaviour to be inverted. While he remained Dependable/Resourceful, the Everstorm was held at bay. (This in turn leads to ANOTHER crazy theory: to stop the everstorm you need all 10 heralds to get their acts together? Or possibly to be replaced by 10 new Heralds?) 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemalurgic Headshot Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 Makes a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manukos Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 i dont know if i agree at least to the ten fools part . we only know of two: Cabin : who acts like a child although he is an adult. Eshu : who speaks of things he does not understand in front of those who do. those two could be taken as the contrary of Battar(wise) and Paliah(learned) but they are the only "inteligence" driven heralds but there are many more aspects of stupidity for the ten fools to impersonate . Plus it would be hard for Battar or anyone for that matter to act like a child for a long period of time apart from that i realy dig your idea about the inverse of characteristics . an other one you could had mentioned is Shalash Spoiler when she destoys art in a gallery , the opposite of creativity though they could just be in hiding and i do kinda belive that Nale was justified in his killings according to laws (even if i liked Ym as a character) and he even lets lift go after she is pardoned for her crimes so .... what was thw point of this post ? i have no stormin idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corax Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) I think we have a WOB that says that there is an extra step between the Heralds and the idea of the Ten Fools. My understanding of it is that the so-called Ten Fools were possibly leaders, probably Radiants, that became infamous. Maybe during the time that the other kingdoms began to resent Urithiru. I agree that the Herald's natures have been corrupted, though not necessarily inverted in every case. We do know that they are all insane, and insane in different ways. (Sorry, posting frome my mobile due to power outage, so it's short.) Edited January 8, 2017 by Corax 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) Perhaps I can refer you to a similar theory of mine? Edited January 9, 2017 by Argent 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erunion Posted January 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 3 hours ago, Argent said: Perhaps I can refer you to a similar theory of mine? More details, I like it! I think that my theory has two big extra things that warrant discussion: Was it possible for an everstorm to come before all the heralds were perverted/twisted? What would happen if all the heralds were to recover themselves (or be replaced)? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garglemesh Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 4 hours ago, Argent said: Perhaps I can refer you to a similar theory of mine? I think there's some more to add to this since new information has been brought about with Edgedancer, spoilers below: Spoiler Ishar isn't, in my opinion, going to be a dirty old man. The Heralds retain their attributes but twist them. He's guiding still, but guiding the wrong way. He's still pious, but perhaps his piety is towards Odium/Cultivation and not Honor. Not sure where else to put this, or if it's been mentioned before, but there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, Garglemesh said: I think there's some more to add to this since new information has been brought about with Edgedancer, spoilers below: Oh, of course. I didn't mean to say that I consider this thread to be a duplicate of mine. I just wanted to offer my own thoughts on the topic by being lazy and not writing them again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 I certainly think that there is some sort of connection between the Fools and the Heralds. I also think though, that the descriptions of the Fools might not completely match with the Heralds. All things change with time, and it would not be unrealistic to assume that the Heralds are not exactly like their Fool counterpart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kered Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 On 1/9/2017 at 9:52 AM, Argent said: Perhaps I can refer you to a similar theory of mine? Gold. This was something I was chewing on for a while, and that post helped fill in some blanks. As for this, I think Nale's actions in Edgedancer make this theory more plausible that it already was. With his reaction at the end, and how his dialogue is styled throughout the story, you defiantly get the vibe that he's broken and not who the Herald of Justice should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted March 27, 2017 Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 Just a thought I had; Jezrian could be Cabin. An infant sits around drooling, has no self control, and has unclear, random speech at first. The same traits could easily be applied to an alcoholic, which we are told Jezrian is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant_Jaeger Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 I feel that once Taln emerges from his stupor it will be with a murderous vengeance. For those who left him to literally burn in hell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 On 3/26/2017 at 11:53 PM, Kingsdaughter613 said: The same traits could easily be applied to an alcoholic, which we are told Jezrian is. We don't actually know that. It's not even implied. The idea comes from a somewhat popular fan theory that Jezrien was the drunken "Have you seen me?" man Szeth passes by in Kholinar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant_Jaeger Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 (edited) Perhaps the insanity each of the Heralds develops is an inversion of their associated Order's ideals. We know Shallash is spreading the wrong kind of lies by defacing art around the world, Nale had a warped and disturbed sense of justice, perhaps Ishar is now seeking to divide men by preventing the Radiants from returning. Also Stonewardens were known for strong will, and after 4500 years of torture Taln has proven this beyond a doubt, but now his will is broken. The insanity they all face is a perversion of their individual orders. Edited April 25, 2017 by Radiant_Jaeger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 16 hours ago, Radiant_Jaeger said: Perhaps the insanity each of the Heralds develops is an inversion of their associated Order's ideals. We know Shallash is spreading the wrong kind of lies by defacing art around the world, Nale had a warped and disturbed sense of justice, perhaps Ishar is now seeking to divide men by preventing the Radiants from returning. Also Stonewardens were known for strong will, and after 4500 years of torture Taln has proven this beyond a doubt, but now his will is broken. The insanity they all face is a perversion of their individual orders. I mean... both this theory and my own version of it say the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant_Jaeger Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) @Argent Hmm I didn't think so because the fools aren't the opposite of each herald they're each examples of ignorance, not necessarily malicious traits such as the heralds (except Taln) have now. Also I think their insanities are against the ideals of the orders. Dividing men, corrupting justice, destroying art and spreading (the bad kind of) lies Edited April 25, 2017 by Radiant_Jaeger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Ah, I apologize - I hadn't read this thread in a while, and while I remembered it was somewhat similar to my own theory (which runs much more in line with your idea, @Radiant_Jaeger - i.e. the Heralds have turned into opposites of their former selves), I had apparently misremembered the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyperson Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Would Taln be affected by this? He didn't stick around like the other 9. Maybe his "brokenness" is just a side effect of Damnation, rather than the corruption set upon the other Heralds. I do like this theory quite a lot, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant_Jaeger Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 @bleeder Well in the case of Taln we have 4500 years of torture rather than just becoming insane on his own. Stonewardens were "fiercely loyal and dependable" with his current mental state I'd say not so dependable and once he learns that the other 9 heralds betrayed him and their oaths after he becomes lucid. I'd say he might develop some anger issues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyperson Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Just now, Radiant_Jaeger said: @bleeder Well in the case of Taln we have 4500 years of torture rather than just becoming insane on his own. Stonewardens were "fiercely loyal and dependable" with his current mental state I'd say not so dependable and once he learns that the other 9 heralds betrayed him and their oaths after he becomes lucid. I'd say he might develop some anger issues. His fierceness might be put to... other uses, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant_Jaeger Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 @bleeder Crushing heralds in between his pinky toes perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) Just a somewhat relevant WoB: Quote INTERVIEW: Feb 28th, 2011 Reddit Fantasy Bookclub Q&A with Brandon Sanderson (Verbatim) GUNSLINGERS () The number 10 seems to be a recurring theme in this world. Are the Ten Fools the antithesis of the ten orders of the Knights Radiant? Have you ever killed off a character and later regretted it? When writing a battle scene in which thousands die do those deaths affect you in any way? BRANDON SANDERSON First Question: Yes, ten is a number of mythological import in the world. The Ten Fools are, essentially, the opposites of the Ten Heralds—who each represented an ideal. (Those ideals were later adopted by the orders of Knights Radiant, so yes, there is a connection—but there's a step between them.) TAGS stormlight archive, heralds, radiants, Edited April 25, 2017 by Iron Eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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