Ryoku

allomancy
Theory of Slider/Pulser Combat Potential

12 posts in this topic

This is going to be a bit dense so be warned but I believe there may possibly be a very powerful application of bendalloy and even cadmium in combat for a mistborn that has not yet been explored.

Pulsers and Sliders have the powerful ability to dilate time by burning there respective metals. We are talking time dilation to massive degrees. However there have been limitations shown thus far that prevent these abilities from being used practically in combat, these few limitations being:

  1. The user is affected by there own ability, for Pulsers this means that their time is slower like everyone elses
  2. The user cannot leave the bubble, preventing them from throwing down a cadmium (slow mo) bubble as a trap for example
  3. Any objects that come into contact with the "membrane" of the bubble is affected in adverse ways (usually disorienting people and refracting the trajectory of projectiles), preventing those within the bubble to interact with those outside and vice versa

The third point is described in the mistborn adventure game as:

Quote

like being caught in the current of a fast moving river

It can assumed that this current is random and constantly changing based on the unpredictable ways in which objects are cast askew

With that in mind, this third point may be exploitable.

 

So far we have only seen how physical objects interact with the membrane, but what if the thing passing through a membrane is more of a force, an allomantic force to be more specific?

For example what if a mistborn within a bendalloy bubble tried to pull on a metal outside of their cast bubble. Mistborns can only pull metal so if the membrane was to interfere with the force it is possible that the mistborn would be pulling something that is not metallic, since that is not possible I have absolutely no clue what could happen if it is affected by the membranes "current"

On the other hand if this theory is correct and that only physical objects are affected by the membranes "current" then the allomantic force being acted upon the metal outside of the bubble could be increased exponentially!

 

To put numbers to it, say for instance a mistborn cast a bendalloy bubble that dilated time by a factor of 10. This means he/she is experience 10x more time than those outside the bubble, every 10 seconds to him/her is one second to those outside.

If the mistborn is able to enact say 100 newtons of pulling force per second on a metal, then this would translate to 100 newtons per 0.1 seconds on a metal outside of the bendalloy bubble (as their time is much faster and he/she can apply 10 seconds worth of force from within the bubble per one second of time outside of the bubble)

This would mean that the allomancer in question could theoretically apply 10x as much force to the object per second as they were able to before!

With this in mind this is not free power, the allomancer in question is burning metal at 10x the theoretical rate to do so, burning metal for 10 seconds for every one second of time experienced outside of the bubble

 

 

The applications for this would be mind boggling, imagine if you will a coinshot within a bendalloy bubble, pushing on an object outside!

And we thought crashers could do some serious damage!

 

The same effect could be theoretically achieved by an outsider trying to influence metals inside of a cadmium bubble.

 

Whether you agree or disagree all thoughts are welcome (as all are part of the fundamental process of the scientific method), I hope you enjoyed the theory, and I can't wait to hear your opinions!

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I remember Brandon saying that emotional Allomancy isn't affected by the edges of the bubble, so I can see the physical "pull" of a Lurcher going through it unaffected.

In that same WoB IIRC, he implies that because of the time alteration, that said soother/rioter could do more with less or something to that effect.

I do not know for sure if that would necessarily equate to your 10x math, but the reasoning appears to be fairly solid. 

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It has been confirmed that the boundary of time bubbles interfere with nearly all forms of investiture.  In other words, you can't steelpush on something or riot someone outside a bubble when you're inside.

Edited by Spoolofwhool
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Ok, I cannot currently find the WoB I was thinking off on theoryland. I can't find the interferes with investiture one either, so I think it might be the site acting up or that mobile is just bad at midnight.

Will update if I find things tomorrow

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7 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

It has been confirmed that the boundary of time bubbles interfere with nearly all forms of investiture.  In other words, you can't steelpush on something or riot someone outside a bubble when you're inside.

"interfere" doesn't necessarily mean that it's impossible. It might just be like pushing on filled metalminds, or maybe some other kind of effect.

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Fair enough. But it would negate the advantages proposed.

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On 1/7/2017 at 9:05 AM, Spoolofwhool said:

Fair enough. But it would negate the advantages proposed.

Interfere, again, doesn't mean that something stops working. For instance, light passing from one medium to another is refracted/reflected at the interface because the two media have different indexes of refraction. The propagation vector changes, but the intensity remains largely unchanged depending on the two media. This could be called "interfence". We (I) just don't know enough to say what the effect of the interference on investiture is at a time interface. Honestly, I haven't really thought much about what the physical effects of a time interface. It isn't something one encounters a lot in daily life. 

Imagine that the interference is analogous to refraction. It wouldn't negate the advantages proposed, just make the a little more unpredictable without a lot experience or a good solvable model. 

I'm not saying that this is how the time interface interacts with investiture forces. I'm just saying that there are a lot of possibilities.

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11 minutes ago, elezraita said:

Interfere, again, doesn't mean that something stops working. For instance, light passing from one medium to another is refracted/reflected at the interface because the two media have different indexes of refraction. The propagation vector changes, but the intensity remains largely unchanged depending on the two media. This could be called "interfence". We (I) just don't know enough to say what the effect of the interference on investiture is at a time interface. Honestly, I haven't really thought much about what the physical effects of a time interface. It isn't something one encounters a lot in daily life. 

Imagine that the interference is analogous to refraction. It wouldn't negate the advantages proposed, just make the a little more unpredictable without a lot experience or a good solvable model. 

I'm not saying that this is how the time interface interacts with investiture forces. I'm just saying that there are a lot of possibilities.

Possibly, except we already have a fairly good basis for what Brandon means when he says interfere in conjuction with magics. "Investiture interferes with investiture," has been used to describe why it is harder to steelpush a metalmind, and unless we're given some basis for a different definition of interfere in this case, I'm using the one we've been given already in similar cases.

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1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Possibly, except we already have a fairly good basis for what Brandon means when he says interfere in conjuction with magics. "Investiture interferes with investiture," has been used to describe why it is harder to steelpush a metalmind, and unless we're given some basis for a different definition of interfere in this case, I'm using the one we've been given already in similar cases.

Fair enough. In general, there are multiple definitions words can take on when talking about this kind thing. But if there is already a definition from Brandon, you are probably right. 

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On the other hand, we've never seen a Mistborn use either of these metals. Perhaps the interference acts like a Cu cloud and doesn't affect the allomancy of the person using it. Perhaps the degree to which investiture interference occurs has to do with the degree of connection and/or the type of investiture. 

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Here are the two quotes on trying allomancy through bubbles.

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4 hours ago, Kurkistan said:

Here are the two quotes on trying Allomancy through bubbles.

Thank you for this. I knew I remembered reading that somewhere

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