(Spoilers) Ashyn and Braize are on the Shadesmar Map (or my 1st crazy theory)

[FiveLate]

Ashen and Braize are on the Shadesmar map.  This all comes from my ramblings on the Cosmere Maps thread but I'm consolidating it as a concise theory here. 

First: People seem to use the term Shadesmar and Cognative Realm interchangeably.  So I just kept plugging along assuming that Shadesmar was the local term for the Cognative Realm on Roshar.  Same thing, different places call the same things different names.  Like some places it will be a water fountain, others a water cooler, others a bubbler, and others a scuttlebutt.

No it is like Utah, United States of America.   It is Shadesmar, Cognative Realm of the Cosmere.   It is a zip code....An area code.

My epiphany...which most of you knew already I assume...came because I realized that the Expanses looked like Mountain ranges growing bigger and taller in the sky.   Almost reaching up to touch the Physical Realm at those 4 corners.   @KidWayne map 

Quote

 

  Taldain (Expanse of the Broken Sky)                                                         Scadrial (Expanse of the Vapors)

               Sel   (Expanse of the Densities)                                                   Nalthis (Expanse of the Vibrance)   

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 2:10 PM by KidWayne

Clearly shows the Roshar System as the only known named system between the 4 Expances if we assume that we have associated them correctly.

Now this is the KEY PART.

Shadesmar is NOT  a map of the Cognatve Realm, NOR is it a map of the planet of Roshar alone.

It is a map of the entire Rosharan system.  

There are 2 more mountain ranges on the Shadesmar map.  The Nexus of Transition and the Nexus of Imagination.

Both are much closer to the 3 seas (3 dif  credit to One Who Connects for languagues) 5 different language groups, and possibly different origin planets of the people of Roshar).  2 mountains not identified and 2 additional inhabited planet's in the Roshar system.    

The Rosharan system map shows both planets about the same distance from Roshar, but due to smaller orbits, Roshar and Ashyn should pass closer together more frequently than Roshar and Braise.  Also sickness plays a key part on Ashyn.  People Transition from healthy to sick and sick to healthy.

I also can't think of anything more imaginary ie from the mind...than a planet full of cognitive shadow splinters.

Therefore, my theory is that the Nexus of Transition is the Cognative pathway to Ashyn and the Nexus of Imagination...which just doesn't quite always touch any of the seas is the Cognative pathway to Braize.

I have outlined where the 5 major language groupings occur on Roshar and transposed it to the Shadesmar map.  The Vorin line up pretty well with the Sea of Lost lights and reach out towards the Nexus of Imagination.  The Makabaki creep out of the Sea of Souls into the Sea of Regret.  The Iri straddle the mountains of the Nexus of Transition.  Dawnchant based languages survive in isolated and rigorous environments forming enclaves across the map.  This could indicate that it originally was the only language and was pushed out by invaders or immigrants to the point that only the most rigorous places maintained the original language much as Spanish and English pushed out Native American languages.

WOB on Reddit on language groups

Spoiler

mistborn Shardbearer • 209d

Our basic language families are:

Vorin: Alethi, Veden, Herdazian, and more distantly Thaylen. Nathan is close to dead, but shares a root, and Karbranthian is basically a dialect. Other minor languages like Bav are in here.

Makabaki: Azish is king here, and most the languages around split off this. There are around thirty of these.

Dawnate: A varied language family with distant roots in the dawnchant. Shin, parshendi, Horneater. They share grammar, but they diverged long enough ago that the vocabulary is very different.

Iri: Iriali, Reshi, Purelake dialects, Riran, and some surrounding languages.

Aimian: These two are lumped together, but are very different. Probably what you were looking for.

That isn't counting spren languages, of course. I might have missed something. Typing on my phone without my wiki handy.

Questions and Flaws to be addressed:

There are 3 Nexus (yes plural is same except bar on u, I looked it up)  but this theory never addresses the Nexus of Truth.  Recent ideas also speculate that the nexuses could be indicative of Sephardic influence affecting the CR.

Why do the Iri straddle the Nexus of Transition, but not really any of the Seas?

If Dawnchant was the original language, where did the other 3 people's come from?

 

 

 

 

 

"Expanse of Storms" name is credited to @The One Who Connects

Edited July 17, 2017 by FiveLate
Updates

[VirtuousTraveller]

8 hours ago, FiveLate said:

 

Therefore, my theory is that the Nexus of Transition is the Cognative pathway to Ashyn and the Nexus of Imagination...which just doesn't quite always touch any of the seas is the Cognative pathway to Braize.

I've not seen much chatter as to the meaning of the various Nexus(s) or Seas on the Shadesmar map.  Kuddos for posting something I haven't seen yet!

It's an interesting alternative to the Broken Sky = Ashyn/Braize theory.  Those four corners seem to refer to places further away, and yet Ashyn and Braize are close.  With this, I think I agree!

[Ironeyes]

Well reasoned. Have an upvote!

[FiveLate]

One small issue I have thought of is that there are 3 Nexuses....Nexi?  On the map..  which could indicate the 3 worlds in some way but at the same time I see correlations between the 3 seas and the 3 language groups.....The easiest is the sea of lost lights over the Vorin regions.  Alethela was the 1 kingdom that always trained for war, to be prepared to train and lead the other 9 I the event of a desolation.  The Knights Radiant worked with them constantly until the Recquience. Spren bonds gave them light eyes.  Their armor glowed.  Until they forsake their vows and then it turned a dull gray is seen in Dalimars.   The rulers and nobles had light eyes, as do the rulers now, but the current ones are lost from the path of leading honorably.

 

I have been thinking about this some more.  Assuming this map only shows the local region of the cognitive realm around Roshar, on a larger map it would probably label this section as the Expanse of Something.  

Edited December 20, 2016 by FiveLate
Stupid autocorrect.....

[The One Who Connects]

On 12/17/2016 at 2:12 PM, FiveLate said:

I see correlations between the 3 seas and the 3 language groups

I see no reason to doubt this possibility, language has to have a fairly large presence in the Cognitive Realm. I'm slightly nitpicking the 3 language groups line, because Brandon has technically given us 5 basic language families. It shouldn't be too much of an issue since I can semi-negate 2 of them.

Vorin (Sea of Lost Lights) - Fallen Radiants, the military culture, I fully agree with you here. The Silver Kingdom of Natanatan (now the Shattered Plains) resides here. And we know something happened there.
Here's where things get.. difficult, as the Makabakan Silver Kingdom (and modern day Azir, the prime language of the family) reside atop both of the remaining Seas, geographically.
Makabaki (Sea of Souls) - This one's a bit of a stretch. There are about 30&some-odd branched out languages, Makabakam was the largest of the Silver Kingdoms.. Perhaps it is the Sea of Souls because of the sheer amount of people residing there?
Dawngate - Shin, Parshendi, Horneater. The 3 cultures are very spread out among the landmass. Perhaps they are simply not dense enough to form a Sea of their own?
Iri (Sea of Regret) - Pure speculation. Half of Iri split off into the nation of Rira, a possible regret. The origin story of the "City of Shadows." Other history we haven't been made aware of yet.
Aimian - confined to Aimia, 2 very different languages. Conflicting/not meshing as the cause for no Cognitive Sea?

Side Note: The Natan have Aimian ancestry, but the Silver Kingdom they resided in (Natanatan) is on the other side of the Continent of Roshar. Additionally, Brandon puts the Natan language (Nathan) autocorrect?) in the Vorin language tree.

On 12/17/2016 at 2:12 PM, FiveLate said:

Assuming this map only shows the local region of the cognitive realm around Roshar, on a larger map it would probably label this section as the Expanse of Something.  

You heard it here first ( ) I imagine its something obvious like the Expanse of Storms. With the way we are putting Vibrance to Nalthis, I figure making the ones we don't get to read be obvious names is allowed.

Edited December 20, 2016 by The One Who Connects
Side Note about Aimian

[FiveLate]

NICE!

6 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

I see no reason to doubt this possibility, language has to have a fairly large presence in the Cognitive Realm. I'm slightly nitpicking the 3 language groups line, because Brandon has technically given us 5 basic language families. It shouldn't be too much of an issue since I can semi-negate 2 of them.

Vorin (Sea of Lost Lights) - Fallen Radiants, the military culture, I fully agree with you here. The Silver Kingdom of Natanatan (now the Shattered Plains) resides here. And we know something happened there.
Here's where things get.. difficult, as the Makabakan Silver Kingdom (and modern day Azir, the prime language of the family) reside atop both of the remaining Seas, geographically.
Makabaki (Sea of Souls) - This one's a bit of a stretch. There are about 30&some-odd branched out languages, Makabakam was the largest of the Silver Kingdoms.. Perhaps it is the Sea of Souls because of the sheer amount of people residing there?
Dawngate - Shin, Parshendi, Horneater. The 3 cultures are very spread out among the landmass. Perhaps they are simply not dense enough to form a Sea of their own?
Iri (Sea of Regret) - Pure speculation. Half of Iri split off into the nation of Rira, a possible regret. The origin story of the "City of Shadows." Other history we haven't been made aware of yet.
Aimian - confined to Aimia, 2 very different languages. Conflicting/not meshing as the cause for no Cognitive Sea?

You heard it here first (hopefully) I imagine its something obvious like the Expanse of Storms. With the way we are putting Vibrance to Nalthis, I figure making the ones we don't get to read be obvious names is allowed.

Two things: I consciously ignored Aimian as a separate language and grouped it with the Iri because the island had basically undergone a geonocide, or at least a purge and that seemed like it would generate a lot of regret.  Second,  I thought that I read that one of the 3 language groups had been traced back to Dawnsgate in one of the forums, just haven't had time to do any real research and won't until finals are done Thursday.

Last thank you for the support.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The One Who Connects]

On 12/19/2016 at 6:12 PM, FiveLate said:

I consciously ignored Aimian as a separate language and grouped it with the Iri because the island had basically undergone a genocide, or at least a purge and that seemed like it would generate a lot of regret.

I hadn't considered that idea. It also would definitively explain why Aimian wouldn't have it's own Sea, as there are too few who use it due to the Scouring.

On 12/19/2016 at 6:12 PM, FiveLate said:

Second,  I thought that I read that one of the 3 language groups had been traced back to Dawngate in one of the forums, just haven't had time to do any real research

Now I have to go find the thread where we learned the language groups in the first place I genuinely want to see what discussion has happened there since the last time I read the post.

[AeonaRin]

Damnation. I just thought of this exact theory, and someone have already done it. I made a map and everything. 
Eh. Let me quote Wit then.

Quote

“In this,” Wit said, “as in all things, our actions give us away. If an artist creates a work of powerful beauty—using new and innovative techniques—she will be lauded as a master, and will launch a new movement in aesthetics. Yet what if another, working independently with that exact level of skill, were to make the same accomplishments the very next month? Would she find similar acclaim? No. She’d be called derivative.
“Intellect. If a great thinker develops a new theory of mathematics, science, or philosophy, we will name him wise. We will sit at his feet and learn, and will record his name in history for thousands upon thousands to revere. But what if another man determines the same theory on his own, then delays in publishing his results by a mere week? Will he be remembered for his greatness? No. He will be forgotten.
“Invention. A woman builds a new design of great worth—some fabrial or feat of engineering. She will be known as an innovator. But if someone with the same talent creates the same design a year later—not realizing it has already been crafted—will she be rewarded for her creativity? No. She’ll be called a copier and a forger.”
He plucked at his strings, letting the melody continue, twisting, haunting, yet with a faint edge of mockery. “And so,” he said, “in the end, what must we determine? Is it the intellect of a genius that we revere? If it were their artistry, the beauty of their mind, would we not laud it regardless of whether we’d seen their product before?
“But we don’t. Given two works of artistic majesty, otherwise weighted equally, we will give greater acclaim to the one who did it first. It doesn’t matter what you create. It matters what you create before anyone else.
“So it’s not the beauty itself we admire. It’s not the force of intellect. It’s not invention, aesthetics, or capacity itself. The greatest talent that we think a man can have?” He plucked one final string. “Seems to me that it must be nothing more than novelty."

 

Bonus:

I mapped the entire thing.

Spoiler

The distances are of course irrelevant, as they get condensed in the cognitive. I just drawn over the star map. The star map is an artistic vision, so the directions are not perfect either anyway. 

1. Cardinal Directions
   Because they exist in minds of sentient life forms, I believe they exist in the Cognitive realm.  Also, Nazh tells Kelsier to go west to find IRE. 
   Another thing is the order of planets in the planetary system. I don't think they would move around much, so I organized them the way the planet closest to the sun would be closer to north in cognitive. I am not too attached to this idea though. 
   Btw, I think the Southern Scadrial is also south on this map. 
    
2. Pathways
   I've drawn potential pathways. Note that there is no direct pathway from Roshar to First of the Sun - I think it goes through Braize, just like a path from Sel to First of the Sun goes through Nalthis.
    
3. Dor pipeline
   So IRE has a pipeline through the cognitive realm that transports Dor. And their fortress was to the west from Scadrial. I just drawn the straight line from it to Sel. I know the fortress isn't exactly to the west, with Sel being north-west from Scadrial, but neither my nor the original star map are super accurate, so we should probably not fixate on this too much. 
    
4. Silverlight
   Now this is just a wild speculation. 
   
   > The star map is a visualization as imagined from Silverlight, not an effect of space exploration
   > Silverlight is solely in the cognitive realm
   > Cognitive realm is entirely flat
   > Therefore there is no way Silverlight is in a plane that allows this view.
   I think the star map was made by someone who simply traveled the Sardworlds and mapped them in the Cognitive realm.
   
   Silverlight is supposed to be a meeting point. Therefore I think it should be somewhere between the major Shardworlds. I've drawn a few ideas:

• a: Between Sel, Taldain and Roshar - that would be between the three most cosmere-aware/realmatically-aware planets. 
• b: All roads lead to Rome Scadrial, so I thought Silverlight would have a convenient path to Scadrial as well. And Taldain, except of Yolen, is the first Shardworld with cosmere-aware people.
• c: My favourite. Not only would that put Silverlight in the most densely populated area, but also on the way of IRE's Dor pipeline, which, I believe, would be quite convenient for Sel-descendant people. 
• d: Silverlight would be in proximity of Yolen. Many people believe The Scar is the location of Yolen. If it is, Silverlight would be between The Scar and the rest of the Shardworlds. But we don't know where Yolen is, so speculation is pointless. 

So yeah, I hope that at least adds something new  

[FiveLate]

I like most of what you say,  there are 2 points I disagree with though.

On 4/21/2017 at 5:43 PM, strumienpola said:

 

  Hide contents

 

1. Silverlight
   
   > Cognitive realm is entirely flat
   
   
   Silverlight is supposed to be a meeting point. Therefore I think it should be somewhere between the major Shardworlds.

I do not think the cognitive realm is flat.....I am leaning towards something like a mobius strip, where the entire realm twists throughout spacetime yet only has one surface.  In this scenario, rather like mass warping space via gravity, you have senescence warping cognitive "space" forming areas with specific rules and allowing the possibility of passage between the physical and cognitive.  I think a third component from the spiritual realm must facilitate this passage.

I do not think that a meeting point has to necessarily be between the major shard worlds either, just someplace easily accessed from all.  Almost like there is a highway system that converges there....like the Hub in Scalzi's The Collapsing Empire.

Edited October 25, 2017 by FiveLate
Fixed mobius from mobile.