Long Game 29: A Mote in Adonalsium's Eye

[Conquestor]

14 minutes ago, Sart said:

I wasn't sure if I wanted to reveal it, but Elodin is also on Threnody with myself and Conquestor.

Oh, my bad guys. sorry.  

44 minutes ago, AliasSheep said:

"Kelen Taldar.  Pleasure meeting you.  Have either of you visited Roshar before?"

"I have, however my friend here has not. Also, my name is Farallen Oniz."

[AliasSheep]

34 minutes ago, harambe said:

I am new to all this gons  And the rules haven't settled in me long enough to start forming strategies , but when the hoid gets more and more people in his crew , won't it be much harder for the rest of us . By no means do I think that we should form a mob and start lynching and murdering people , but still i think that the swiftest the better. 

I think that the shard trading is a great idea since the chance of hoid or his one follower getting it is approximately 4-8%

-and not at all becouse I want to have godly powers-

Forming a mob sounds like a great idea actually. Which reminds me, we need to start getting some sort of lynch together.  So far we've only got poke votes, which aren't particularly useful.  

I guess I'm going to put my vote on Joe.  His comments about information sharing have made me suspicion (see my previous comments on the matter) and he seems a little too enthusiastic to be blowing up Scadrial (or did before someone pointed out the fact about Endowment's ability), which made me think he had reason to believe he needed to roleblock one of the members on Scadrial.  Of course, I'm waiting for him to reply to comments I made early before I press this further.

15 minutes ago, harambe said:

I don't completely agree but let's try being nice for a turn or two 

there are more people on Roshar , though I am unsure if they are  admins or smt.

Elbereth, Metacognition and Seonid are the three non-players who should be in your world PM.  Were those the additional people?

[Arinian]

2 minutes ago, AliasSheep said:

Forming a mob sounds like a great idea actually. Which reminds me, we need to start getting some sort of lynch together.  So far we've only got poke votes, which aren't particularly useful.  

I guess I'm going to put my vote on Joe.  His comments about information sharing have made me suspicion (see my previous comments on the matter) and he seems a little too enthusiastic to be blowing up Scadrial (or did before someone pointed out the fact about Endowment's ability), which made me think he had reason to believe he needed to roleblock one of the members on Scadrial.  Of course, I'm waiting for him to reply to comments I made early before I press this further.

Elbereth, Metacognition and Seonid are the three non-players who should be in your world PM.  Were those the additional people?

How he can know it? 17th Shard knows players who hold Shards but not which Shard they hold. Only reason that I see it's that there many Shards on Scadrial. And honestly I don't know if his comments(about sharing info) good reason for lynch on him. 

[A Joe in the Bush]

 

1 hour ago, AliasSheep said:

I'm sceptical as to the usefulness of this.  Joe mentioned that it would be useful for helping people make more informed decisions, but from what I can see, it's just putting more information in the hands of the 17th Shard who are able to use it much more effectively than any village due to their ability to cooperate and coordinate effectively.  That being said, I'm interested in knowing what kind of information you were thinking of, Joe?

I'm currently changing my views. I hadn't thought of the possibility of Hoid starting without a team. I had it in my head that There was already 4 or 5 followers of Hoid, and that they would already know the information. However, that was basically the information i wanted to see. Make a list of all the planets, then see who switches to where. What if the hypothetical 4 or 5 hoid followers weren't evenly spread out throughout all the planets? They would make an effort to spread out or stay, getting at least one on each planet. 

Also, Freedom of information is always important, if just to stop the formation of a Shardic Coalition, like happened in the first iteration of this game.

34 minutes ago, Sart said:

I wasn't sure if I wanted to reveal it, but Elodin is also on Threnody with myself and Conquestor.

I'm not sure how I feel about blowing up planets. In a purely RP sense, that would probably destroy millions of lives. Not sure that's the greatest idea. The other problem I see with it is PMs. Right now, we have 7 planets. Since he has a Conversion ability, I doubt Hoid started off with more than one follower. That means there are probably 5 planets that don't have his minions on them. We want to have places to talk without people listening in. Already in Threnody, there's been discussions of a role-swap. We don't want Hoid knowing that information. By eliminating a planet, we dramatically increase the likelihood that the 17th shard has infiltrated that world. In addition it also functions as a role-block. We need to redistribute the shards, so Hoid can't track where they are. Role-blocking that action seems extremely harmful in this game. PMs are a useful tool, and getting rid of them this early seems like a waste.

Good to know. Also, very very interesting.

Thank you for pointing that out. I hadn't thought of that. Also, this wouldn't roleblock anyone.

28 minutes ago, Jondesu said:

I find it a little in bad taste to reveal publicly where other players are, in addition to yourself. I won't reveal who is with me, though I'm on First of the Sun.

Thank you. That really just leaves Zephrer in the unknown.

3 minutes ago, AliasSheep said:

Forming a mob sounds like a great idea actually. Which reminds me, we need to start getting some sort of lynch together.  So far we've only got poke votes, which aren't particularly useful.  

I guess I'm going to put my vote on Joe.  His comments about information sharing have made me suspicion (see my previous comments on the matter) and he seems a little too enthusiastic to be blowing up Scadrial (or did before someone pointed out the fact about Endowment's ability), which made me think he had reason to believe he needed to roleblock one of the members on Scadrial.  Of course, I'm waiting for him to reply to comments I made early before I press this further.

Elbereth, Metacognition and Seonid are the three non-players who should be in your world PM.  Were those the additional people?

I'm getting a little tired of repeating myself. My Plan did not call for anyone to be roleblocked. Worldhopping happens during the day, World Destruction during the night. I specifically asked for us to decide what world today so that everyone could leave the world before it was destroyed. I didn't want anyone to be roleblocked, and if I did, why would i suggest the world I was on? I had no reason to want to roleblock anyone on scadrial, or anywhere else.

---

25 minutes ago, Conquestor said:

1 hour ago, AliasSheep said:

"Kelen Taldar.  Pleasure meeting you.  Have either of you visited Roshar before?"

"I have, however my friend here has not. Also, my name is Farallen Oniz."

"I have been told of the world by a friend though. I merely wish to leave this world behind. I have a few too many enemies, and not enough friends. Are you by chance from Roshar yourself?"

[AliasSheep]

Just now, Arinian said:

How he can know it? 17th Shard knows players who hold Shards but not which Shard they hold. Only reason that I see it's that there many Shards on Scadrial. And honestly I don't know if his comments(about sharing info) good reason for lynch on him. 

Honestly, if there were lots of shards on Scadrial (which is more than likely - there are at least some worlds with more than one shard, and Scadrial is one of the worlds with bigger numbers) then I would want to roleblock them.  They're a risk.  I'll admit that that's my weaker point.

While they're not incredibly strong points, they're something.  The first day lynch is almost never strong points.  I'm not saying I definitely think Joe is a member of the 17th Shard, but if we had to lynch someone, he's the one who's striking me as the most likely to actually be an elim.

 

[Arinian]

3 minutes ago, AliasSheep said:

Honestly, if there were lots of shards on Scadrial (which is more than likely - there are at least some worlds with more than one shard, and Scadrial is one of the worlds with bigger numbers) then I would want to roleblock them.  They're a risk.  I'll admit that that's my weaker point.

While they're not incredibly strong points, they're something.  The first day lynch is almost never strong points.  I'm not saying I definitely think Joe is a member of the 17th Shard, but if we had to lynch someone, he's the one who's striking me as the most likely to actually be an elim.

 

I'm not accuse you. But just looks that you too hard pushing for lynch. 

[AliasSheep]

4 minutes ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

I'm currently changing my views. I hadn't thought of the possibility of Hoid starting without a team. I had it in my head that There was already 4 or 5 followers of Hoid, and that they would already know the information. However, that was basically the information i wanted to see. Make a list of all the planets, then see who switches to where. What if the hypothetical 4 or 5 hoid followers weren't evenly spread out throughout all the planets? They would make an effort to spread out or stay, getting at least one on each planet. 

I agree with you on the information on planets, since aforementioned I don't see the harm of it outside of Ruin's ability, I was just wondering about what other information you might want to know about.  Is that all you want to be shared?

7 minutes ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

I'm getting a little tired of repeating myself. My Plan did not call for anyone to be roleblocked. Worldhopping happens during the day, World Destruction during the night. I specifically asked for us to decide what world today so that everyone could leave the world before it was destroyed. I didn't want anyone to be roleblocked, and if I did, why would i suggest the world I was on? I had no reason to want to roleblock anyone on scadrial, or anywhere else.

Hmm.  Fair enough.  And as I said, if you had knowledge of the shards and there was a shard on Scadrial, it might be advantageous to roleblock them whilst hampering Ruin's ability for later - but as you've cleared my misunderstanding, that point is no longer valid.

8 minutes ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

"I have been told of the world by a friend though. I merely wish to leave this world behind. I have a few too many enemies, and not enough friends. Are you by chance from Roshar yourself?"

"And what gives you that impression?"

[AliasSheep]

1 minute ago, Arinian said:

I'm not accuse you. But just looks that you too hard pushing for lynch. 

I've made... one, maybe two posts arguing for my point?  How is that pushing too hard for the lynch?

Sorry for doubleposts - I'm still not clear on the actual context in which posts should be edited or doubleposts should be made >> If this needs to be merged with the previous post, if someone lets me know then I'll do so

[A Joe in the Bush]

13 minutes ago, AliasSheep said:

Honestly, if there were lots of shards on Scadrial (which is more than likely - there are at least some worlds with more than one shard, and Scadrial is one of the worlds with bigger numbers) then I would want to roleblock them.  They're a risk.  I'll admit that that's my weaker point.

While they're not incredibly strong points, they're something.  The first day lynch is almost never strong points.  I'm not saying I definitely think Joe is a member of the 17th Shard, but if we had to lynch someone, he's the one who's striking me as the most likely to actually be an elim.

Scadrial has 4 players. so do 4 other planets. I am on Scadrial, which means there is a maximum of three people i could hypothetically roleblock, if i hadn't specifically included a way in the plan to avoid roleblocking anyone. So, by your own logic, It would make more sense for me to roleblock one of the 4 planets that has 4 people that I'm not on, since they would have a higher chance of having a higher concentration of shards that aren't aligned with me, which is also assuming that I'm on Hoid team. You're using a lot of assumptions to accuse me.

Aaaand you just ninja'd me and took a lot of my annoyed wind from my sails. K.

7 minutes ago, AliasSheep said:

I agree with you on the information on planets, since aforementioned I don't see the harm of it outside of Ruin's ability, I was just wondering about what other information you might want to know about.  Is that all you want to be shared?

Hmm.  Fair enough.  And as I said, if you had knowledge of the shards and there was a shard on Scadrial, it might be advantageous to roleblock them whilst hampering Ruin's ability for later - but as you've cleared my misunderstanding, that point is no longer valid.

That's all i wanted shared. And cool, misunderstanding solved. But you're still voting for me. What have i done that wasn't been completely on the level and above the board that makes you suspicious of me?

6 minutes ago, AliasSheep said:

I've made... one, maybe two posts arguing for my point?  How is that pushing too hard for the lynch?

Sorry for doubleposts - I'm still not clear on the actual context in which posts should be edited or doubleposts should be made >> If this needs to be merged with the previous post, if someone lets me know then I'll do so

Aaaannnd you ninja'd me again.

It's the first non-poke vote, which on day 1 is always scary. It's too easy to make bandwagons on day 1. I was kind of with Arinian that you were pushing too hard, but the subsequent posts have condinved me you're just trying to get a lynch going, and I was the only suspicious one. 

I'm fuzzy on that myself.

7 minutes ago, AliasSheep said:

"And what gives you that impression?"

"Nothing at all. I was merely asking. Though, i do notice you avoided answering the question."

Edited December 21, 2016 by A Joe in the Bush
fixing a colour tag

[Arinian]

1 minute ago, AliasSheep said:

I've made... one, maybe two posts arguing for my point?  How is that pushing too hard for the lynch?

Sorry for doubleposts - I'm still not clear on the actual context in which posts should be edited or doubleposts should be made >> If this needs to be merged with the previous post, if someone lets me know then I'll do so

No, nothing in your posts just... lets say for me it feels like that.(don't know if that have some sense. Sorry, i think I'm just little bit paranoidal.)

[AliasSheep]

1 minute ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

But you're still voting for me. What have i done that wasn't been completely on the level and above the board that makes you suspicious of me?

Oh I just wanted to clarify that that was all you wanted sharing. Joe

2 minutes ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

"Nothing at all. I was merely asking. Though, i do notice you avoided answering the question."

"Oh it's true, I am, and so is Mist here.  It seems oddly observant for someone not from those parts, is all."  Kelen turned to face Farallen, "How much experience do you have on Roshar?  In need of a guide?"

[A Joe in the Bush]

3 minutes ago, Arinian said:

Sorry, i think I'm just little bit paranoidal.

That's unhealthy. You need to be a lot Paranoid. Especially around me.

1 minute ago, AliasSheep said:

Oh I just wanted to clarify that that was all you wanted sharing. Joe

"Oh it's true, I am, and so is Mist here.  It seems oddly observant for someone not from those parts, is all."  Kelen turned to face Farallen, "How much experience do you have on Roshar?  In need of a guide?"

Thank you.

---

OOC: Jack only knows of Scadrial and Roshar. He knows there are other worlds, but those are the only two names he knows.

[Seonid]

The GM's List of Rules Clarifications:

Extra lives, such as those gained from Survival's or Preservation's investiture, will protect against the lynch.

If a player with a passive extra life from a Shard passes their Shard on the same cycle they are lynched, they will be killed. Passing the Shard happens before the lynch, so at the time the lynch occurs, the player no longer has the Shard. Similarly, if a player that is up for the lynch is passed a Shard that grants a passive extra life, they will survive the lynch.

A player who holds a Shard may invest in the day and also use their Shardic action on the same night, provided they have enough actions left to do so.

A Shard who would normally create a doc with their investee (such as Autonomy, Odium, or Honor) will be informed if their investment fails. Any other Shard will not be so informed.

If a Mistborn uses their ability on Odium, the kill is blocked and Odium takes an attack. Being a Shard, Odium would survive the first such attack, but would be killed by a second attack.

The only ability listed in the rules that depends on the planet is Ruin's planet destroying laser beam of death.

If a roleblock prevents an action from happening, it does not consume an action charge/item (with the exception of the interaction between Ruin's planet destruction and Preservation's round freeze, which is explicitly explained in the rules). However, a kill that is blocked by a protection or absorbed by an extra life does consume a charge.

If Odium and his Champion attack a Shard with protection or an extra life, the protection or extra life will block the Champion's kill, and Odium's will go through to shatter the Shard.

Autonomy's Shardic ability converts the target player to the win condition of Autonomy, not the win condition of the player who holds the Shard. Similarly, creating an Agent or Champion of Odium converts the target player to the win condition of Autonomy or Odium, not the player who holds the Shard.

An Elantrian may choose to target "no player." If they do so, a random player's who did not vote will have their vote moved to the target.

Endowment does not create a role if the person she invests in is on Threnody.

The bonus action gained from voting in the thread may only be used during the Night cycle immediately following. They do not rollover, store up, or otherwise accumulate.

The only ways to gain more items/action charges are through Cultivation's ability, the ability of a Returned to replenish items, or by using stolen investiture gained from Hoid.

ERRATA: These clarifications modify the posted rules!

A Shard may be passed in either Day or Night Turn. If passed in the Night Turn, the action resolves at the same time as passing/burning stolen investiture. If a Vessel passes their Shard on the same Night they perform an action, the action succeeds if it occurs on the same step or earlier in the order of actions then the Shard-passing. An action that occurs on a later resolution step is cancelled if the Shard that allows it is passed.

Players who are killed and go to the Cognitive Realm now remain there for 2 Turns after they are killed. For example, a player lynched on Day 1 would remain in the Cognitive Realm through Night 1 and Day 2, and would move on to the Spiritual Realm at the beginning of Night 2. A new Cognitive Realm doc will be created on each Turn in which a player enters or exits the Cognitive Realm.

[Droughtbringer]

2 hours ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

Taldain:
Doc12
Drought Bringer (How thematically appropriate.)

Assuming two on on taldain

There happen to be 3 on Taladin...not going to say who else though, it is their place not mine.

[A Joe in the Bush]

1 minute ago, DroughtBringer said:

There happen to be 3 on Taladin...not going to say who else though, it is their place not mine.

It's Zephrer.

[A Joe in the Bush]

3 hours ago, Arinian said:

I will really appreciate if someone will write some ideas on strategy for this game.

Finally getting around to doing this:

Role Specific Strategies:

 

Survival:
Ally with everyone. Don't be a threat, make sure everyone understands you are Neutral. I would almost recommend revealing yourself. Don't give any information, or ask for any information. Your best bet at surviving is to be the go between. If Odium needs Ruin's help, and is willing to offer something in return, then they can go through you without revealing their identites to each other. But the first time you betray someone's identity, you'll lose everyone's trust, even the trust of the people you're helping.

Odium:
You're not an eliminator faction. Remember that. If you don't act to aggressive, you can befriend the village. Make a deal where the village gives their shards to a member of the 17th shard, who you then kill. Both You and the Village advance in their goals. 

Autonomy
Convert Moderately active players. Fully active and completely inactive players are more likely to be killed. Also, same advice as Odium. You're not an Eliminator, remember that. You can work with the village.

Hoid:
Reveal yourself to Ruin so we can kill you. Also, don't convert anyone. =P Jk, but I'm not actually giving you advice.

Preservation:
Just keep investing yourself, and you'll be able to survive the entire game.

Ruin:
I think you should do the noble thing and blow up Threnody tonight, but that is robbing yo of your powers. If you choose not, then you should kill the most inactive players, unless they do what Araris did and say in advance when they'll be inactive until.

Devotion:
Please don't use your Investment ability at first. Stick with your shardic ability for now. I have no strategies for Devotion. Just remember that if you put yourself in a PM, pretend to be surprised, don't reveal you're Devotion. You and Cultivation are the two most valuable shards to the village.

Dominion:
You probably have the most useful shard for the 17th shard. Be very careful who you invest in. Other than that, just use your abilities carefully.

Endowment:
I think I would prefer to have a bunch of returned villagers, then less villagers and more roles. Please return as many villagers as you can.

Cultivation:
You and Devotion are probably Odium's biggest targets. I recommend passing your shard as soon as possible to someone you trust, in case of an Odium/Hoid teamup. Or, just invest in a single person, but don't reveal yourself to anyone. Secrecy is your only friend.

Honour:
Protect people pls. Probably wait to make a returned villager your Champion.

Mistborn:
Do your thing. Probably aim for the moderately active or the inactives. Odium won't be super public to avoid the scanning roles

Feruchemist:
Shrugs. Do your thing. Whatever you want. Try to get your hands on a shard or in contact with Endowment.

Elantrian: 
Try to keep whoever has the most votes with the most votes to counter 17th Shard Elantrians. Save your aon's for now. wait until nearly tied lynches later on.

Forger:
Talk to people. Learn as many roles as you can. You can confirm those roles by switching them with yourself.

Awakener:
Really not all that helpful unless you expend breaths. So, be careful and picky about how you scan and who. Don't scan me. I'm not worth it. (Or am I saying that to ensure I will get scanned by making you suspicious of me? (That is why I'm saying that. Someone should totally scan me.) Hoid should show up as having investiture from every planet, so if you expend a breath on him, it will be obvious it's him.

Lifeless Commander:
protect people pls.

Knight Raidant:
Protect people pls.

Voidbringers:
Go read what I told Ruin.

Mastrell:
Please don't do anything until you have someone who needs to be protected.

Investigator:
Try to convince Seonid to explain why an investigator needs to expend investiture to do their job. I mean, I understand it from a balance reason, but flavorwise it makes no sense. Also, be picky about who you roleblock

Trapper:
Basically a Role scanner? @Seonid can we get some clarifications as to what results the Trapper will be told?
EDIT: Eh. Use as you will. See next three posts for more information.

Poisoner:
Pls don't. If you do, please tell someone you're Endowment, Cultivation or Devotion, then poison that person.

Shade:
Be active please. Tell everyone everything in case they return.

Returned:
Uncertain. Just do as your judgement tells you.

Not one of the above?:
Try not to get invested. Just discuss, point out suspicions, and watch for people who change their views to abruptly, they've probably been converted!

 

 

Edited December 22, 2016 by A Joe in the Bush
Trapper Information

[Seonid]

@A Joe in the Bush

A Trapper will be told the actions taken by their target. They will not be told the targets of those actions 

[A Joe in the Bush]

@Seonid What kinds of actions? Will they be told their target performed a kill action, or specifically that they poisoned someone? Will they be told that they defended someone, or specifically that they posted lifeless guards to defend some one. Ect.

[Seonid]

1 minute ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

@Seonid What kinds of actions? Will they be told their target performed a kill action, or specifically that they poisoned someone? Will they be told that they defended someone, or specifically that they posted lifeless guards to defend some one. Ect.

They will be told "kill action," protect action, etc. They won't be given information that could distinguish between different types of protects, kills, and so on. They will distinguish between extra lives and protects

[Master Elodin]

Just wanted to say that I am not inactive, just posting a little less than normal. I am, however, taking any and all questions/ RP interactions.

[Conquestor]

I haven't seen Doc12 post all game, so, I am going to vote for him. Might as well as get rid of the inactives, right?

[Aonar]

2 hours ago, Magestar said:

@Aonar Faileas is watching but not posting.  Aonar, got anything to say?  

The GM/Sub-GM/IM are in each World PM, I believe.

I am indeed watching. And I will continue to do so until I have something I wish to say. (RP can probably be expected as soon as I'm in the mood for it. Game-relevant analysis... we'll see.)

[Droughtbringer]

We need to be careful, if we lynch someone now it could just be the 17th shard sitting there trying to manipulate us into lynch one of the shards early on....

[A Joe in the Bush]

I'm actually thinking I might not vote at all this cycle. . . Normally I'm all for a Day 1 lynch, but if there's only one eliminator right now (Hoid) Then, I don't know how much information we can really get from a lynch vs actions. I hate to bring up this old debate again, but, should we have a day 1 lynch?

[Jondesu]

Just now, A Joe in the Bush said:

I'm actually thinking I might not vote at all this cycle. . . Normally I'm all for a Day 1 lynch, but if there's only one eliminator right now (Hoid) Then, I don't know how much information we can really get from a lynch vs actions. I hate to bring up this old debate again, but, should we have a day 1 lynch?

It strikes me as similar to LG28 in that respect, and I argued for no Day 1 lynch there for basically the same reason. Since this game is going to have a lot of conversions from one faction to another from my reading of the rules, a Day 1 lynch seems like it's more likely to hurt than help.