Long Game 29: A Mote in Adonalsium's Eye

[A Joe in the Bush]

Clarification on why I trusted Elodin enough to invest in him:

That was Elodin's very first post. a statement of where he was a and a pun.

That was my response. I didn't understand the pun.

He explained the pun. I googled Threnody, and learned it was a a lament, or song of mourning. That little exchange made me trust him enough to invest in him because I thought if he wasn't a villager, he would have said more. He didn't so i decided that he didn't have an agenda to push and was just waiting for things to happen, therefore, village.

[Magestar]

3 minutes ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

I googled Threnody, and learned it was a a lament, or song of mourning. That little exchange made me trust him enough to invest in him because I thought if he wasn't a villager, he would have said more. He didn't so i decided that he didn't have an agenda to push and was just waiting for things to happen, therefore, village.

Things only cosmere theorizers know.

That makes sense to some extent, although it puts a sad emphasis on how little trust there is in this game.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Magestar

[manukos]

11 minutes ago, Magestar said:

Things only cosmere theorizers know.

That makes sense to some extent, although it puts a sad emphasis on how little trust there is in this game.

What can you do? 

I usually like to judge expressions ( rarely successfully) as a criteria for lynching and proving innocence . But that unfortunately that is not possible here

[Aonar]

1 hour ago, Arinian said:

I see other possibility, If here inactive Shardholder it's ideal target for 17th Shard.

No, actually. In the rules it states that an Inactive Vessel has their Shard given away randomly. For balance reasons, I feel this is the case regardless of whether the inactivity was warned of beforehand. (Like in Elenion's case.) They're better off Converting an active Vessel, even though by now most of them probably have passed, or are soon planning to pass, their Shards away, as they will have information as to the current location of the Shard, and are more likely to be able to get a Shard in the future, due to cognitive bias on the part of whomever they passed to, and those who know they passed a Shard away. 

[Master Elodin]

Well, any suggestions for me? If not I'll just end up doing something random.

[AliasSheep]

1 minute ago, Master Elodin said:

Well, any suggestions for me? If not I'll just end up doing something random.

Kas already asked for his vote to be moved to Darkness Ascendant

[Master Elodin]

Oh, thanks. I will do that then. Meanwhile, I'll place a tentative vote on Magestar, as he seems to be trying to subtly push the idea that mislynches are bound to occur because of how little information the village has. However, the eliminators know who they are, so they have enough information to lynch the "right" person- someone who is not one of them. You may have just been restating the fact that the village needs to have a lynch, but right now this is the only thing I have to go on.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Master Elodin

[AliasSheep]

Concurring with Elodin, @Magestar, I'd like to know why you support lynching an inactive specifically after Aonar explained that the chance of an inactive being a member of the 17th Shard is unlikely.

[Araris Valerian]

@Master Elodin, somebody has to die this cycle, and the only person whose alignment I am sure of is my own. I'm curious as to why you think I would care whether or not Bard dies.

However, I am going to switch my vote from Bard to Magestar. Not for the reason that Elodin mentioned, but rather because lynching an inactive doesn't give us any information. The eliminators are probably happy to be rid of one of their inactive players to gain trust, and there won't be any exchanges we can look back at in we find an eliminator to move forward with. Also, at least for me, part of the fun of SE is killing people that are probably innocent, and being perfectly justified in doing so. I wouldn't think that our community would be squeamish about lynching innocent, active players after the social experiment in MR Codex Alera.

[Magestar]

38 minutes ago, Master Elodin said:

Meanwhile, I'll place a tentative vote on Magestar, as he seems to be trying to subtly push the idea that mislynches are bound to occur because of how little information the village has. However, the eliminators know who they are, so they have enough information to lynch the "right" person- someone who is not one of them. You may have just been restating the fact that the village needs to have a lynch, but right now this is the only thing I have to go on.

34 minutes ago, AliasSheep said:

Concurring with Elodin, @Magestar, I'd like to know why you support lynching an inactive specifically after Aonar explained that the chance of an inactive being a member of the 17th Shard is unlikely.

Ok.  So, right now, despite the fact that there are three pages of text, there are only 3, maybe 4 votes, not including my own, and they're all on different people, who I have no particular reason to be suspicious of.  My vote simultaneously explained that I was in favor of lynching inactives, which I am, partially because they're inactive, and a drag on whatever team they're on, and partially because I'd like to spur some activity.  Sadly, the inactive I voted on still hasn't said anything.  I also feel like it's not unlikely that an inactive started as a member of the 17th Shard, considering how many inactives we have.

I don't feel like I, personally, have enough information to conduct a successful lynch at this time.  So I'm going to lynch inactives. They're not helpful to us, so we're not losing anything if we lynch them.

I'd also be open to lynching Harambe, or possibly Elodin, but as long as Elodin moves Kas' vote he should be fine.  Still won't prove that he's not 17th shard, but it'd be nice to have some confirmation.  The thing about Harambe is that they're a fairly new player, so I'm hesitant to lynch them just because they're acting odd and they mentioned docs.  So I'm back where I started, and I'd like an extra action, so I put my vote on Zephrer.  I'll move it if I feel there's a better option.  I'm not seeing one.

I've put this together while doing something else, so I might not respond to responses to it right away, and I apologize if it's a little scrambled.

edit;

Vote Tally;

Stick; Alv,

Sart; Kas (To be moved by Elodin)

Zephrer; Mage,

Mage; Elodin,  Araris, (within 15 minutes of each other)

I also should note that I have no idea what MR Codex Alera was.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Magestar

[Aonar]

To be fair, Zephrer has been on and posted since the game's beginning; he's not a complete inactive. While he hasn't been on yet today, he would not yet be considered a true inactive. I'm not sure he's worth lynching, but I'm not terribly suspicious of Mage for the idea. However, I'm content to see how the lynch goes. (I do agree with Mage about Harambe, but as he's a new player though I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.)

Edit: @Magestar The Codex Alera MR was the one where everyone was given a special role (the Cursori) which let them make one kill before the game started. Everyone died, and then the game actually started.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Aonar Faileas

[Magestar]

22 minutes ago, Aonar Faileas said:

Edit: @Magestar The Codex Alera MR was the one where everyone was given a special role (the Cursori) which let them make one kill before the game started. Everyone died, and then the game actually started.

Oh.  I had heard of that, but didn't connect the name with the event.  

How exactly does that apply?

[Araris Valerian]

The reason it applies is that people seem reluctant to place votes, presumably because they could lead to the death of innocent players. But when given the Cursori role, nobody was reluctant to put in a kill order before the game even started. I just wish people had that same level of aggression here.

[Aonar]

8 minutes ago, Magestar said:

Oh.  I had heard of that, but didn't connect the name with the event.  

How exactly does that apply?

Araris was just making a joke. Being afraid of lynching active innocents is a little hypocritical when given the chance most of our community will take the chance to randomly kill people before the game even starts.

And ninja'd.  

Edited December 24, 2016 by Aonar Faileas

[Arinian]

2 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

The reason it applies is that people seem reluctant to place votes, presumably because they could lead to the death of innocent players. But when given the Cursori role, nobody was reluctant to put in a kill order before the game even started. I just wish people had that same level of aggression here.

You too bloodthirst. That's scary, little bit .

[Sart]

I'm on mobile right now, so I will keep this short. I trust Joe's claim. I meant to tie up the vote yesterday, but I got distracted. Haven't done too much analysis, so I won't place a vote right now. I'll be more active two days from now.

[Dustbringer12]

2 minutes ago, Arinian said:

You too bloodthirst. That's scary, little bit .

a little bit of bloodthirst never killed anyone

[Arinian]

1 minute ago, RubiksCube said:

a little bit of bloodthirst never killed anyone

Hmm... not sure about that. 

[Magestar]

7 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

The reason it applies is that people seem reluctant to place votes, presumably because they could lead to the death of innocent players. But when given the Cursori role, nobody was reluctant to put in a kill order before the game even started. I just wish people had that same level of aggression here.

Actually, if I remember correctly, several people refused to place kill orders.  I believe that the kill would be randomized if you didn't place it, but I might be remembering incorrectly.

Some people targeted the GM, I think.  

[Dustbringer12]

Just now, Arinian said:

Hmm... not sure about that. 

well, not the bloodthirsty one, at least.

[Arinian]

2 minutes ago, RubiksCube said:

well, not the bloodthirsty one, at least.

Yeah, he usually killed by crowd with torches.

[Dustbringer12]

1 minute ago, Arinian said:

Yeah, he usually killed by crowd with torches.

Yeah, I guess you're probably right about that . . .

[Master Elodin]

1 hour ago, Araris Valerian said:

@Master Elodin, somebody has to die this cycle, and the only person whose alignment I am sure of is my own. I'm curious as to why you think I would care whether or not Bard dies.

However, I am going to switch my vote from Bard to Magestar. Not for the reason that Elodin mentioned, but rather because lynching an inactive doesn't give us any information. The eliminators are probably happy to be rid of one of their inactive players to gain trust, and there won't be any exchanges we can look back at in we find an eliminator to move forward with. Also, at least for me, part of the fun of SE is killing people that are probably innocent, and being perfectly justified in doing so. I wouldn't think that our community would be squeamish about lynching innocent, active players after the social experiment in MR Codex Alera.

I'm aware of that, I was just wondering if there was a particular reason for Bard being expendable. I was simply trying to promote discussion.

1 hour ago, Magestar said:

I'd also be open to lynching Harambe, or possibly Elodin, but as long as Elodin moves Kas' vote he should be fine.  Still won't prove that he's not 17th shard, but it'd be nice to have some confirmation.  The thing about Harambe is that they're a fairly new player, so I'm hesitant to lynch them just because they're acting odd and they mentioned docs.  So I'm back where I started, and I'd like an extra action, so I put my vote on Zephrer.  I'll move it if I feel there's a better option.  I'm not seeing one.

bold for emphasis

You can't prove that anyone's not 17th shard yet, why am I any different? Is it because I'm an investee? If so, feel free to lynch me whenever you believe that I am hindering the village more than helping it.

EDIT: If anyone has noticed that I am being more aggressive than I have been in previous games before my four-month absence, it is because I am making a concerted effort to compensate for my relatively passive playstyle in those earlier games and also my inactivity in QF20.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Master Elodin

[Magestar]

25 minutes ago, Master Elodin said:

You can't prove that anyone's not 17th shard yet, why am I any different? Is it because I'm an investee? If so, feel free to lynch me whenever you believe that I am hindering the village more than helping it.

You aren't any different.  I was making a note.  You, in this case, are the topic of that paragraph, and I was noting that we still couldn't fully trust you.  I currently don't fully trust anyone, but you were who I was talking about.

[Master Elodin]

1 minute ago, Magestar said:

You aren't any different.  I was making a note.  You, in this case, are the topic of that paragraph, and I was noting that we still couldn't fully trust you.  I currently don't fully trust anyone, but you were who I was talking about.

..So you were fine with lynching me because you were talking about me?