Long Game 29: A Mote in Adonalsium's Eye

[Master Elodin]

Hmm. @Araris Valerian could you explain why you don't mind killing Bard?

[A Joe in the Bush]

4 hours ago, Conquestor said:

Anyway. Farallen woke up from a horrible night of rest, he slept on the cold, hard ground, and kept on waking up in the night in a cold sweat. He kept dreaming of the boy, Jack. He got up and stretched, he started to walk towards the nearest city. He saw a figure in the distance, "Jack?!" Farallen yelled. It couldn't be, he died!

@A Joe in the Bush Do you want to continue our RP?

First off, Jack isn't a boy. He is a grown man with a dead wife and a five year old daughter. Secondly, yes.

---

Being returned was much different then being human. Everything seemed more crisp, and more clean. His senses were better, and he felt stronger, even though Jonly had shown him the trick to maintain his old, predeath body. Speaking of, that had hurt. He hadn't expected it to hurt.

He wasn't certain where he was at the moment. This wasn't Silverlight, where Khriss had killed him. This was some world other, near a city he didn't recognize. And there was was someone coming towards him. A familiar voice yelled out his name, and Jack grinned and ran to meet the man. "Farallen! Sorry for the scare. A couple of friends of mine brought me back. I'm not really allowed to talk about it. But do you know where we are?"

[A Joe in the Bush]

10 hours ago, Seonid said:

His instincts almost saved him. Without even knowing why, Quintus rolled to his side. A bolt of fire, as hot as the inside of a star, streaked past him, igniting a twenty foot section of the jungle where it struck. Pulling out of his roll, he frantically searched for his attacker. He caught a brief glimpse of a shadowed figure, eyes alight with hatred more powerful than anything he had ever known. Then the second bolt of fire struck his chest, and he saw no more.

Apologies for the double post, but this looks like a double tap. Two Bolts of Fire, which I wold posit means that Odium has already invested in a champion, and the two of them took out Jondesu together. I would guess that this means Odium has invested in someone they have a Synergy with (Like Mailliw and I, or WIlson and Hael) Or Odium is an inexperienced player who wanted the advice of an active experienced player. @Seonid How closely will the writeups match actual events?

[Arinian]

44 minutes ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

Apologies for the double post, but this looks like a double tap. Two Bolts of Fire, which I wold posit means that Odium has already invested in a champion, and the two of them took out Jondesu together. I would guess that this means Odium has invested in someone they have a Synergy with (Like Mailliw and I, or WIlson and Hael) Or Odium is an inexperienced player who wanted the advice of an active experienced player. @Seonid How closely will the writeups match actual events?

Actually I don't see why that should be two people. One person can't throw two bolts of fire?

[Kasimir]

20 minutes ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

Apologies for the double post, but this looks like a double tap. Two Bolts of Fire, which I wold posit means that Odium has already invested in a champion, and the two of them took out Jondesu together. I would guess that this means Odium has invested in someone they have a Synergy with (Like Mailliw and I, or WIlson and Hael) Or Odium is an inexperienced player who wanted the advice of an active experienced player. @Seonid How closely will the writeups match actual events?

Double post for double tap?

Huh. Possible. My initial impression was that conversions took place at night, but I just re-read the rules and realised Odium's conversion is part of their investment, so I guess we're looking at a potential day convert here. I would definitely be more willing to think it is an Odium or Odium / Champion kill: in retrospect, I guess it could be a Ruin kill too. I'm less likely to think it is a Voidbringer kill, even if the writeup is complete fluff, since Voidbringers only start with 2 shots so I would not think they'd want to kill people with reckless abandon.

On the current issues here:

1. Joe. I'm still not sure about him. Actually, Joe: why was Elodin the highest on your trust list? You never really explained that, only said you were investing in someone you trusted only that much (relative to everyone else.) As far as I can see, the reasons for suspicion boil down to Joe's apparently knowing where Elodin was, even before correction (Joe claims it as a coincidence which is not impossible), and some other points of weirdness, such as not tying the vote to save himself (which Joe claims to be due to player rage.) All of these are plausible, but at the moment, I'm still at my default position of distrust. Nevertheless, Joe has said he will kill himself at the end of Night 3 unless: A. he has been converted, or B. over half of us object to it. So, I'm going to bracket the issue for the time being, but I think it imperative that the Village remember to talk about this on Day 3/Night 3.

2. Endowment. The only thing I'm going to say here is that I hope you don't make this a habit, or you're going to make it bloody hard for us to do our jobs as a Village. If you want to be useful, give us protect roles and seeking roles like Awakeners, for heaven's sake! [Same point applies to everyone asking an Awakener to scan Elodin: 1. they'd have to out themselves, unless you're planning on them outting themselves only if they discovered something fishy, and 2. Not clear if Endowment invested in someone on Nalthis already, since Endowment clearly has other priorities. I don't think we're likely to start with Awakeners, since Endowment creates them, so it's apparently up to our Omnipotent Authority Figure gatekeeper. Much relief.]

I would go so far as to say that if Endowment keeps Returning everyone we've lynched, then we need to start getting Ruin and other night kill roles to enforce lynches - otherwise, Endowment is just going to keep starving us of information, and even better, Team Hoid gets the initiative on us.

3. Elodin. Easily settled. I'm going to vote for Sart, because I don't think he's said anything yet (for this cycle), and I'm fonding remembering QF4 where he was Hoid and majorly slipped under the radar. What do you think of everything so far, Sart? Since no one else seems to be pursuing this idea, I recommend Elodin change my vote on Sart to one on Darkness Ascendant. I don't think either of them seem in danger of death right now, and hopefully, if anyone prefers another target, they'll say it early so it can be done.

4. My last thought kind of builds off #2. That at some point, it might be very helpful to petition beg pray to have Ruin begin killing inactives. I hesitate to talk about making a Night lynch, partly because that idea tends to fizzle, and partly because we only have 24 hours, so timezones will probably mess with discussion. I wouldn't recommend starting now, especially since Christmas will mean rampant inactivity (and understandably so), but I think that by Cycle 4 or so, we should start looking into killing people who are essentially lurking/inactive.

---

The sea breeze ruffled his hair and Kaikoa's feathers, bringing with it the familiar, briny scent of saltwater. The footprints ahead of him ended in the surf. Tenth knelt down, but saw no trace of where his target might have vanished to. He grunted, and fed Kaikoa a bit of dried jerky. There was no freshly-caught fish, today. He would have to make it up to the Aviar later.

Who was this man Khriss wanted them to hunt?

He knew little enough about the greater game they played. It was not his, and that was enough for him. He would not have come to Silverlight, if not for the asking. He would have continued to track her, instead - the woman with the red hat, and the Aviar mating plume stuck jauntily in it, almost as a taunt; both warning and lure. But he had his profession to think of. Wearily, he rose, brushing fine sand off his trousers.

It fell through his fingers, and disappeared, becoming one with the beach.

There had been another, at Silverlight. He had thought of approaching her, but...But there were no words, Tenth decided, moodily. There were never enough words.

He trudged back; off the beach, the surf already gently erasing the line of footprints he had been following. He almost cut his foot on a piece of shell and shook his head. Sloppy. The danger was everywhere, he reminded himself. It was only that he had been trained to think of Patji.

[manukos]

@Kasimir i nice plan and RP 

not much to add but, i wanted to mention something about @Darkness Ascendant in the roshar pm 

he has systematicaly sent a single message at the start of each day and night so far and nothing more .... 

just pointing that out, and also i wouldn't be against voting him for lynch . has he said anything in any of the mutual docs

[Darkness Ascendant]

mutual docs?

I'm not part of any docs

[AliasSheep]

Regarding killing Jondesu, I agree that Odium is the more likely option, mostly I think due to motivation which I think would be lacking for Ruin and a Voidbringer (unless they know something we don't).  It'll be interesting to know if Jondesu did actually hold a shard. @Seonid, Odium would be told if they had a shard, right?

Kas' plan for checking that Elodin is invested seems a lot better than the scanning. The only potential problem I can see with it is if Cultivation is held by the 17th Shard and so goes along with it.  However, that is so contrived as to be ridiculously unlikely so it's better to just disregard it.  Elodin, if you could change Kas' vote, that would be great.

@harambe I'm interested in knowing what these "mutual docs" you speak of are.  Care to explain?

In addition, does anyone want to share who's on their world this turn?

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

I'm still not sure about him. Actually, Joe: why was Elodin the highest on your trust list?

Joe said something about a pun, I think? shrugs

[Droughtbringer]

Well I'm still on Taladin.

[Magestar]

Are any of the World PM's super active?  All the ones I've seen are kind of dead.  

[Stick.]

Mysterious white text: Ignore this :}

12 hours ago, Alvron said:

Stick, why did you jump worlds last day cycle?

Worldhopping is fun. I intend to do it every day cycle, unless something really important comes up :-P

2 hours ago, harambe said:

 

Just pointing that out, and also i wouldn't be against voting him for lynch . has he said anything in any of the mutual docs

Mutual docs? Docs? 

Edit: I'm on Nalthis, if anyone cares to know  

Edited December 24, 2016 by I_am_a_Stick

[Seonid]

The write up will not contain hints as to roles or alignment (unless a shard is shattered), but will faithfully represent number of attackers, and will distinguish between Shardic and non -  Shardic kills. For clarification, Jondesu was killed by Odium. If Odium's kill had shattered a shard, it would have been  explicitly mentioned both in the write-up and in the announcements.

[Kasimir]

9 minutes ago, Seonid said:

The write up will not contain hints as to roles or alignment (unless a shard is shattered), but will faithfully represent number of attackers, and will distinguish between Shardic and non -  Shardic kills. For clarification, Jondesu was killed by Odium. If Odium's kill had shattered a shard, it would have been  explicitly mentioned both in the write-up and in the announcements.

Oh, wow, thanks, GM Almighty Guess this means we didn't need to guess so much. Would it be possible to just confirm that this write-up only depicts one determined attacker, as compared to two?

So there we have it. Odium's getting off to a flying start, as the Corellians would put it. In which case, I do think the Elodin question is somewhat pertinent - at least, I don't see anything that might have led Odium to suspect Jondesu is a Shard, though perhaps they were just killing randomly. (Let me make my point clearer: yes, for Odium to kill Elodin would be for Odium to assume Joe hadn't separately passed his Shard. But there's nothing to go on with regard to a Jondesu kill - literally, while Joe could have spread his eggs in more than one basket, it's also somewhat strange for Joe to invest in the person he most trusted but then give a Shard to someone he trusted less. And if Joe did invest in Elodin, then the Shard would have had to go to Elodin unless Joe had passed it. It's not unassailable logic, but it seems to give a better chance of taking down a Shard - in particular, the Shard that can undo Odium's work by un-shattering a Shard. So it's really kind of strange for Odium to pass up on that shot and to go for a blinder shot in the dark.)

Seonid: I'd like to repeat my question from last Night. Does Cultivation's investment have a time limit? Does Elodin lose the ability to vote-swap after this Turn, or does he retain it until use, or does he retain it for all eternity?

I have a further question. Does Odium still fulfil his win condition if he shatters all the Shards but if Cultivation puts them back together?

One reply might be that Jondesu said something revealing in his world PM. Problem is, I was in the same two world PMs as Jondesu (i.e. both cycles), and on both occasions, it's pretty much deader than a Triton Moon. It would also imply that someone on the same world is Odium. So while I would be slightly suspicious of worldmates, I also think it's likely that Odium either shot randomly (my guess, anyway), or Odium's playing a different kind of game than my assumptions lay out.

-

1 hour ago, AliasSheep said:

Joe said something about a pun, I think? shrugs

Yeah - I guess what I was driving at is that it really doesn't seem much of a basis for trust. It'd be like me deciding to trust Alv simply because we're both role-playing hunter type characters. I get that Day One doesn't furnish us with much information at all, but it doesn't mean we can't still differentiate between good and bad reasons. My trusting Alv because we're both RPing hunters would be a bad reason, if only because Alv's RPing a hunter (huntress, I know) has nothing to do with how likely it is he is good or evil.

Essentially, since players may sometimes have reasons other than what they explicitly articulate, I just want to press Joe to articulate his reasons more. We shouldn't focus on him today. I agree with that. But it doesn't mean we shouldn't eke out information from him either. *shrugs* I just want to hear more, basically.

-

Don't ask me where the mutual docs thing came from. Only docs I'm in are LG28 ones, and they're under embargo >>

[Magestar]

4 hours ago, Kasimir said:

[Same point applies to everyone asking an Awakener to scan Elodin: 1. they'd have to out themselves, unless you're planning on them outting themselves only if they discovered something fishy, and 2. Not clear if Endowment invested in someone on Nalthis already, since Endowment clearly has other priorities. I don't think we're likely to start with Awakeners, since Endowment creates them, so it's apparently up to our Omnipotent Authority Figure gatekeeper. Much relief.]

On the 'Endowment Creates Roles' bit;  I talked to the GM about this, and I'm fairly certain that it only lasts as long as Endowment is investing in that person.  Which lasts about one cycle.  So...  I personally think Endowment should invest in an Awakener or something, for now.  But like I said, it won't last very long.

Also, I was slightly disappointed by this.  Here I was hoping Endowment would build an Uber-Role.   

[Kasimir]

6 minutes ago, Magestar said:

On the 'Endowment Creates Roles' bit;  I talked to the GM about this, and I'm fairly certain that it only lasts as long as Endowment is investing in that person.  Which lasts about one cycle.  So...  I personally think Endowment should invest in an Awakener or something, for now.  But like I said, it won't last very long.

Also, I was slightly disappointed by this.  Here I was hoping Endowment would build an Uber-Role.   

Fair, thanks for checking. In that case, it might actually better, IMO. Awakeners are sure to be targets if they reveal themselves. But if an Awakener is just one turn, based on Endowment's investment, then they have every reason to come forward with their scans and no reason to be killed, unless, of course, Team Hoid is hoping Endowment will go back to the same person. (Or maybe I'm just making lemonade from life's lemons...)

[Conquestor]

6 hours ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

First off, Jack isn't a boy. He is a grown man with a dead wife and a five year old daughter. Secondly, yes.

---

Being returned was much different then being human. Everything seemed more crisp, and more clean. His senses were better, and he felt stronger, even though Jonly had shown him the trick to maintain his old, predeath body. Speaking of, that had hurt. He hadn't expected it to hurt.

He wasn't certain where he was at the moment. This wasn't Silverlight, where Khriss had killed him. This was some world other, near a city he didn't recognize. And there was was someone coming towards him. A familiar voice yelled out his name, and Jack grinned and ran to meet the man. "Farallen! Sorry for the scare. A couple of friends of mine brought me back. I'm not really allowed to talk about it. But do you know where we are?"

Yes, well, Farallen calls anyone with less knowledge than him, a boy.

"Yes, we are on Roshar." "A couple of friends? I won't ask, but let's get going, we have a long journey ahead of us." No one was going to hurt his friend ever again, or else.

Well, that's nice, now we don't have to guess who the killer was.  But, how do we continue from here?

 

[manukos]

Sorry guys @AliasSheep @I_am_a_Stick it apears i missused the word doc 

I meant the day and night cycle threads like this one

 

P.S.  sry i was out and probably will be again soon

 

Edited December 24, 2016 by harambe

[Stick.]

27 minutes ago, harambe said:

Sorry guys @AliasSheep @I_am_a_Stick it apears i missused the word doc 

I meant the day and night cycle threads like this one

Okay but...mutual docs? Something's off :/

Edit: Is @Elenion playing? He was last online on Tuesday

Edited December 24, 2016 by I_am_a_Stick

[Arinian]

10 minutes ago, I_am_a_Stick said:

Edit: Is @Elenion playing? He was last online on Tuesday

He inactive from start of the game. Not sure if he even checked his role.

[Droughtbringer]

We should probably start lynching the inactives...the 17th's win condition could give them easy access to convert inactive sitting in the background.

[Seonid]

1 hour ago, I_am_a_Stick said:

Okay but...mutual docs? Something's off :/

Edit: Is @Elenion playing? He was last online on Tuesday

 Elenion is on a family trip to Hawaii until the 27th. He made mention of this before signing up.

[Stick.]

7 minutes ago, Seonid said:

 Elenion is on a family trip to Hawaii until the 27th. He made mention of this before signing up.

Oh yeah yeah he did, I forgot 

[Aonar]

34 minutes ago, DroughtBringer said:

We should probably start lynching the inactives...the 17th's win condition could give them easy access to convert inactive sitting in the background.

...Um, but why would they? I may be misunderstanding what you're saying, but a general rule of thumb is that you don't want inactives on your team. They don't gain you anything. A lurker (player that is around, but rarely contributing obviously) is a not bad choice for conversion; an inactive (player that is not around, period) is pretty useless. The only reason an inactive might be converted is if they intend to kill them to make themselves seem more trustworthy. However, assuming conversions are hard-capped to a certain number (which they may not be, that wasn't clear in the rules) this still isn't an ideal strategy; the relatively small amount of trust gained just isn't worth the loss of a possible active, contributing member. 

[Arinian]

52 minutes ago, Aonar Faileas said:

...Um, but why would they? I may be misunderstanding what you're saying, but a general rule of thumb is that you don't want inactives on your team. They don't gain you anything. A lurker (player that is around, but rarely contributing obviously) is a not bad choice for conversion; an inactive (player that is not around, period) is pretty useless. The only reason an inactive might be converted is if they intend to kill them to make themselves seem more trustworthy. However, assuming conversions are hard-capped to a certain number (which they may not be, that wasn't clear in the rules) this still isn't an ideal strategy; the relatively small amount of trust gained just isn't worth the loss of a possible active, contributing member. 

I see other possibility, If here inactive Shardholder it's ideal target for 17th Shard.

[Magestar]

I'm still a fan of lynching inactives, so I'm going to put my vote on Zephrer, who's been very inactive.  He's been on, but he hasn't really posted or contributed.

There is the off chance that we'll accidentally lynch someone helpful this way, but with the amount of information we have, I think we have a high chance of error anyway.